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Archive 1Archive 2

29 Nov Aleppo Citadel taken

Stories are coming in that HTS has taken Aleppo Citadel. At the moment source is this video on X, but more sources will probably become available over the next hours.

https://x.com/NEDAAPOST/status/1862607938952593595 212.113.68.195 (talk) 21:43, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Flag salad "Reactions" section

As many of you know, most editors despise list-formatted "Reactions" sections, especially the flag icons. These sections should be converted into prose—not a bulleted (flagged) list. At present the reactions are from involved parties, and it should be kept that way. Abductive (reasoning) 08:02, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

The Syrian National Army

The Syrian National Army (Rebels backed by turkey) initiated its own offensive toward the town of Tadif, located south of Al Bab. Source https://syria.liveuamap.com/ and https://x.com/mintelworld/status/18627723069105523242001:1C00:A16:7F00:0:0:0:E006 (talk) 11:13, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Map - opposition factions

Shouldn't the map have different colors (or at least different shades of green) for areas of the Interim Government and areas of the Salvation Government? (Areas of SNA and areas of HTS) They are different in the article Syrian civil war for example. RamiPat (talk) 11:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Hard to estimate who controls what now since it's a joint offensive. Muhllo (talk) 11:55, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

More Syrian Army casualties

The rebels destroyed a retreating military convoy belonging to Syrian Army which killed 75 personnel.

https://x.com/ShaamNetwork/status/1862808381808955488?t=dq2b0lHOme-BHUcdXQRpoQ&s=19 Muhllo (talk) 11:54, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Tahrir al-Sham involvement

I really felt like I had to nitpick this quickly because this whole article reeks of western ignorance much much more than the usual articles about the Middle East here. It's phrased like this whole operation was planned, organized, and executed by the FSA and other so-called " moderate " rebels. This was all planned and executed by HTS, The FSA is less involved and more of a support role unlike how it's phrased in the article. In all the videos you see of the rebels they are wearing HTS patches, HTS uniforms, and sporting Islamist flags/slogans ( including that of Daesh ) their affiliation is obvious. They even say this and show combat videos in their press releases.

I also really feel like " Supported by Turkey " should be added. Hundreds of HTS fighters crossed from the Turkish border and HTS has worked with the Turkish military. I'm pretty sure Turkish military bases around Idbil were also bombed. That's not even getting into the arms shipments and funding as well as Turkey's joint offensive into Kurdistan along with HTS. 71.175.178.6 (talk) 00:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree to an extent. HTS is a Sunni Islamist group linked with Al-Qaeda. CrazyFruitBat911 (talk) 20:22, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
They literally have had conflicts with and have killed ISIS terrorists. Nonetheless, some of them may still have some links to ISIS. WP:NOTFORUM applies here and [[1]] is parroting Assadist sympathetic propaganda. Theofunny (talk) 20:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Al-Qaeda has had conflicts with and killed ISIS terrorists. It doesn't mean they aren't Islamic extremists. The current military leader of HTS is also a former Al-Qaeda affiliate and Islamist. CrazyFruitBat911 (talk) 21:25, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
And while I do agree with you that HTS has not flown Daesh flags and the OP is likely parroting Assadist propaganda it cannot be ignored that HTS are Islamists in one form or another regardless of affiliation to ISIS. CrazyFruitBat911 (talk) 21:27, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
I would argue your opinion is more western ignorance and Assadist propaganda filled that the article you accuse.
Yes, the HTS organized this attack.
Yes, HTS is supported by Turkey.
No, HTS is not connected to Daesh, HTS has supported other opposition groups that have fought Daesh and has fought them themselves.
Now for the topic of Al-Qaeda, HTS used to have relations and connections to them but has since cut ties with Al-Qaeda to strengthen their relations and reputation with other opposition groups that were not very keen of Al-Qaeda. Atoosz (talk) 11:21, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 November 2024

Rebels has captured strategic Abu Al-Duhur and Shaheed Suad Al-Kayari Airport, along with capturing Russian Base is Maasran, Idlib.

https://x.com/almo2tasem91/status/1862751340297871586?t=lsmQoekzV9S6FcXKsV4AcA&s=19

https://x.com/almohrarmedia2/status/1862753424808321205?t=1AbkEhHfWrCPAhkKN0Pz4Q&s=19 AlMuslim17 (talk) 07:13, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. FifthFive (talk) 03:42, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Change infobox map

I believe this infobox map by User:Rr016 is more suitable for the infobox. It includes both active fronts, as well as Hama where gains are currently being made. PanNostraticism2 (talk) 15:03, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Including it within the infobox may be worth it but not completely taking out the current one that shows Northwestern Syria (where the actual offensive is taking place at). Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 04:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Battle of Aleppo (2024) clarification

The “status” section of the front page simply lists the current Aleppo battle as the “Battle of Aleppo;” since there was already a major battle in the city earlier in the Syrian Civil War, this should be changed to “Battle of Aleppo (2024)” or maybe even “Second Battle of Aleppo” so as to avoid confusion with the earlier battle. LordOfWalruses (talk) 17:37, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

It already directs to "Battle of Aleppo (2024)" as a link.
I don't think putting a year in a status in an article that has "2024" in its title will necessarily or that not putting it will cause any confusion. RamiPat (talk) 10:12, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
 Done Changed link name to Battle of Aleppo (2024). Ecrusized (talk) 10:16, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Separate section in infobox needed for the SDF

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/30/middleeast/syrian-rebels-control-aleppo-city-intl

All three major combatants are against each other. Theofunny (talk) 19:49, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Please update your link as it is no longer working. 2600:1700:1CD0:4AD0:8AFA:7E4C:D34A:5B1E (talk) 21:36, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request for addition to the lede

This offensive is the direct consequence of new wars that have erupted outside Syria’s borders. Regional and international powers intervened in Syria over a decade ago, and now the conflicts of Ukraine, Gaza and Lebanon are all considered to have come together and overlapped in Aleppo.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/setbacks-for-russia-iran-and-hezbollah-turn-into-a-catastrophe-for-syrias-assad-c3e693e8

Theofunny (talk) 20:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 December 2024

Kioumars Pourhashemi wiki was made so make it link to him http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Kioumars_Pourhashemi Yesyesmrcool (talk) 00:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done – Anwon (talk) 03:54, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Any sources for intra-Syrian-govt fighting in Damascus?

Is The Jewish Press a WP:RS? The source's claims of a possible attempted coup d'etat in Damascus (Archived 2024-12-01 at archive.today) with claims that Brigadier General Hassam Louka, chief of the regime's general security directorate was attempting to oust President Bashar al-Assad and that Clashes were reported between the Syrian Republican Guard and the Syrian Arab Army's 4th Division in the Kfar Sousa district of Damascus, with gunfire directed at various government buildings. If there are enough serious sources, then this info should really go into a separate article. Boud (talk) 00:35, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

@Boud From what I've heard any claims of a coup in Damascus are a complete hoax; if a coup really was taking place, you would see mountains of news stories by major media outlets, not just one article from The Jewish Press. There is one article explicitly refuting the coup claims, [2] but it is not from a very reliable source. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 00:59, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
It does seem surprising that no reports are spreading among reliable sources (leaving the reliability of The Jewish Press an open question) - it's not North Korea or Eritrea that are more or less hermetically sealed from info spreading. Syrian Observatory for Human Rights seems to say nothing about the would-be coup attempt. The expected bias of Western mainstream WP:RS would be to favour reports of a coup attempt, though they would still check multiple sources before making any claims. A few others sources (not necessarily WP:RS) that might be likely to pick up that sort of news quickly - Anadolu Agency no hint of a coup attempt; AJ English nothing; Al Monitor nothing. If the coup attempt is not confirmed to be real, then we'll have at least one solid case for proposing The Jewish Press at WP:RSP WP:RSN. Boud (talk) 01:30, 1 December 2024 (UTC) (edit Boud (talk) 13:25, 2 December 2024 (UTC))
 Done @Flemmish Nietzsche: posted at RSN for discussion. Boud (talk) 12:45, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Casualties

What do you think of having a section to cover the injured and dead people. I made a quick search but the there are a wide range of statistics reported [3], [4] and [5]. Also the data is changing on a daily basis. --Mhhossein talk 12:42, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Map

Menagh Air Base has been taken Over By Rebels Map must Be Changed 78.172.61.182 (talk) 14:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

For changes in the map, you'd have to go to the Wikimedia commons not here and also the map is updated once in a while Waleed (talk) 13:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Why are Syrian National Army and Syrian Salvation Government being lumped together?

They are not the same organization, don't exactly have the same goals, and they don't even have the same flags(SNA has the stars and SSG has the arabic writing).

The map specifically marks the Syrian Democratic Forces in a different color, along with the groups in reconcilliation in the South-west or the Syrian Free Army in that pocket in the middle south. Technically these are all 'Opposition' in the sense of opposing Assad. Why are the SNA and SSG being given one color and not separate ones? The main page still marks them as White and Green respectively. TheBrodsterBoy (talk) 00:15, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Split the Hama campaign?

The current article is titled "Northwestern Syria offensive", while the combat is now in the vicinity of Hama - which is not in Northwestern Syria. Shouldn't it be considered a separate offensive altogether? Juxlos (talk) 02:54, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

2024 Hama offensive is already a different article Waleed (talk) 03:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, but it's considered part of this article. Maybe the title has to change if this is going
to cover campaigns in west-central Syria. Juxlos (talk) 04:57, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Maybe this article should focus on Idlib and Aleppo only, with mention to Hama just to give an idea, with referring to 2024 Hama offensive for the Hama theater of operations.
- RamiPat (talk) 11:02, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Ajnad al-Kavkaz missing from the Free Syrian side

Add Ajnad al-Kavkaz to the Opposition as they are fighting in aleppo right now

proof: https://x.com/war_noir/status/1862486068357976145

thanks. 18Adygean64 (talk) 19:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. FifthFive (talk) 22:20, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Is this reference reliable enough?
https://trackingterrorism.org/chatter/ajnad-kavkaz-and-jaish-al-muhajireen-wa-al-ansar-hts-claim-responsibility-for-attack-near-aleppo-syria-28-november-2024/ 2003:C5:2718:4859:8987:1006:E147:DC88 (talk) 09:08, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
 Done by someone else already Abo Yemen✉ 09:26, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Deir ez-Zor

@Ecrusized: could you move the information to Deir ez-Zor clashes (2024) since Deir ez-Zor is clearly not North Western anymore and is different offensive Braganza (talk) 10:17, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Indeed its not Northwest, but its still in the context of this campaign. It might be time to move the page to another name. So that there is an article that covers the escalation that began in Syria last Wednesday. Ecrusized (talk) 10:28, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
no its not really connected, its at best a second front. This article shouldnt mutate into a "Syrian Civil War (2024-present)" article Braganza (talk) 10:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind mention it in "Status" or in the timeline but its clearly different and the US should not be mentioned Braganza (talk) 10:33, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
There isn't even enough material in this article yet there are already 5 splits. Battle of Aleppo (2024), 2024 Hama offensive, Operation Dawn of Freedom, Southern Syria offensive (2024), Deir ez-Zor clashes (2024). I prefer keeping it all nice and tidy in one article where the events of the past 5 days can be read without going into 6 separate small articles. That's just my preference. Ecrusized (talk) 10:58, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree with @Braganza:. The subject of this article has been the rebel-initiated offensive "Deterrence of Aggression" in northwestern Syria and its a separate military campaign/operation from the events that are taking place thousands of miles away in eastern Syria and the title of the article should not have been changed without a proper discussion on the subject. I kindly ask @Ecrusized: that the name be changed back to Northwestern Syria offensive (2024). And if you feel they should be merged, please initiate a discussion with other editors. Thank you. EkoGraf (talk) 11:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Very well, I've moved the page back to its old name. I didn't think that would be a controversial move. Ecrusized (talk) 11:04, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. EkoGraf (talk) 11:15, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
@EkoGraf, Ecrusized, and Braganza: the old map should be updated. Panam2014 (talk) 21:09, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
This map no longer covers the scope of the offensive since it only shows ongoing clashes in its bottom corner. However, I could make a new zoomed in map one similar to File:Israel-Lebanon-Syria-border-Conflict-2023.svg and File:Operation Peace Spring.svg if that's preferred over a map of Syria. Ecrusized (talk) 21:16, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
@Ecrusized, a zoomed in map of this particular offensive would be nice Waleed (talk) 04:11, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
I've added File:Northwestern Syria offensive (2024), (topographic).svg to the switcher. Ecrusized (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 3 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. not a single support (non-admin closure) Abo Yemen✉ 09:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Northwestern Syria offensive (2024) → 2024 Syria conflict – Fighting has now spread to the eastern Deir ez-Zor region between SDF and pro-government forces. As well as to the mid-central region of Hama. In light of these developments I feel that the title "Northwestern Syria offensive (2024)" no longer reflects the situation accurately. I'm open to hearing other titles from editors as well if the above isn't preferred. Some other examples that come to my mind are, 2024 Syria campaign, 2024 Syria offensive, and Syrian Civil War offensive (2024). Ecrusized (talk) 11:12, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

  • Oppose - The subject of this article is the rebel-initiated offensive "Deterrence of Aggression" in northwestern Syria and its a separate military operation from the events that are taking place thousands of miles away in eastern Syria (separate front in the war). For example, in WW2, Operation Overlord (Western Front) and Operation Bagration (Eastern Front) were not considered the same event, even though they took place during the almost same period of Allied escalation against Germany (June 1944). EkoGraf (talk) 11:25, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
You should change it to 2024 Syria conflict and ad Deir ez Zor sections with Southern Rebel activities. Battles 55 (talk) 13:40, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose- per EkoGrad, subject of the article is the rebel offensive. It's very possible that news on the issue could focus on the most recent escalations though, so a new page named something like Syrian civil war (2024) or Timeline of the Syrian civil war (November 2024–present) isn't something I'm opposed to, but the scope of this page is clearly focused on the rebel offensive in the NW - presidentofyes, the super aussa man 14:58, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose, as this article has a clear, more specific scope. However, I wouldn't be opposed to a Timeline of the Syrian civil war (November 2024–present) per Presidentofyes12. While asserting that this constitutes a separate civil war would likely be OR, our war timelines are usually subdivided around key events and this would be a convenient periodization. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 15:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose, we have already separate page for Deir ez-Zor clashes Shadow4dark (talk) 16:09, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose - per the other arguments. Wheatley2 (speak to me) (watch me) 16:30, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose this is a larger offensive within the war focused on Hama, Aleppo, and Idlib governorates, HTS isn't fighting in Deir ez-Zor. Jebiguess (talk) 16:59, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose. Weak, vague title. The current title can stand as it is. TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 20:06, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose - rather create a new article but i would not support it either Braganza (talk) 22:06, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose Bonbontofu (talk) 22:22, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Strongly Oppose Waleed (talk) 04:09, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose title would make it sound like this is a totally new conflict. Scuba 15:13, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Neutral: IF there were any change in the Article, a better fitting name would be "Syrian Opposition Offensive (2024)", as other names sound too generic. 89.244.83.56 (talk) 17:27, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose - per EkoGraf. This is a specific campaign within the larger civil war, not a completely separate conflict. Even if it has spread beyond the northwest, the proposed change does not work. Spjag (talk) 21:45, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose "2024 Syria conflict" sounds likes a new conflict rather than another phase in the current one and would definitely confuse readers. Rager7 (talk) 02:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Please fix the english in the page

the english is broken somewhere Zezo39 (talk) 12:41, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

@Zezo39 Where? It would help if you specified the section or paragraph where the issue occurs. —C.Fred (talk) 12:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
This has got to be the least helpful entry in a talk page ever. Can you specify where "somewhere" is? Scuba 16:35, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

"Status"

Status says "Rebels capture Aleppo", but Kurdish forces still hold many neighborhoods in the northern part of the city, so I suggest it be changed to "Rebels capture most of" - RamiPat (talk) 11:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Kurds are also rebels, so that doesn't make much of a difference. Scuba 20:54, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Still "Deterrence of Aggression"?

From what I understood, Deterrence of Aggression was to capture the immediate environs of the front-line to prevent shelling, seeing as how that was achieved, is there any hints from the HTS or other sources that the subsequent capture of Aleppo, and current campaign for Hama are separate operations with separate names? Scuba 20:55, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Hezbollah

Reliable sources are now saying that Hezbollah leaders have been killed in the offensive by Syrian rebels. Hezbollah should be added as a combatant 141.154.49.21 (talk) 06:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Hama is falling right now

needs updates Zezo39 (talk) 12:53, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

It already has. Theofunny (talk) 13:24, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Hama has been captured by the rebels

https://www.dw.com/en/syria-rebels-take-key-city-of-hama/a-70966612 Theofunny (talk) 13:24, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect Date spotted regarding Hama

Capture of Hama is marked as November 5th when the Rebels took it December 5th Mattmaco (talk) 15:15, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Rojava/AANES/SDF as a third side rather than on SAF side

In the sidebar, Rojava/AANES/SDF is listed as a belligerent on the side of the SAF. Shouldn't it be listed as a third side? Cobblebricks (talk) 20:47, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

It has not fought with the government on this front, especially according to no reputable sources. It took over some areas after the government withdrawal but without clashes. Plus they seem to have received Russian air support in some cases. I think the current infobox format explains the current situation well. --PanNostraticism2 (talk) 21:28, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
The line between SAA and SDF implies that they are neither fighting on the same side nor fighting one another. Adding SDF as a 3rd combatant would mean that all three sides are fighting each other, which is not the case since there is no fighting between SAA and SDF. Ecrusized (talk) 10:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Agree with PanNostraticism2 and Ecrusized. SAA and SDF have not been fighting against eachother, but have clashed both against the rebels. That's why they are both aligned against the rebels in the same column, but because they are not allies we got a line separating them. And that's been standard practice in other battles of this conflict since the start. EkoGraf (talk) 19:41, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Given their recent offensive against Syrian government, I believe SDF should be classified as a third side now. – Anwon (talk) 12:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
I second this. Theofunny (talk) 02:24, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
This sounds good, and SDF is now fighting government, but is this happening in the same area as described in the article?. 97.64.56.176 (talk) 17:10, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes check the Map Theofunny (talk) 17:25, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Downsizing this article for the sake of the separate offensive-articles?

Most of what's here is also in the separate offensive-articles (Aleppo, Hama..). We should make a clear distinction between these articles. Maybe rewriting this article to make it more condensed isn't that of a bad idea imho. KajMetz (talk) 16:04, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I just put some warnings about WP:REDUNDANTFORK into two sections on the Hama offensive here. I haven't checked who is doing most of the duplication, though by the statistics of contributions, my wild guess is Ecrusized. One option could be to use {{excerpt}}, but someone should try to recover and integrate any non-redundant info before using excerpt. Boud (talk) 20:15, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes I've been doing copy editing on content covering Hama offensive here and on its article. Although I don't think forks are necessary since most of them are only a few paragraphs long. This article could cover the fighting that began on 27 November 2024. Ecrusized (talk) 20:22, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Isis announcement of them taking territory during the offensive.

Reportedly isis put out a statement claiming that they won territory. But couldn't find the orginal source of the announcement.

https://x.com/Mustafa_Alali2/status/1864743345118969930 Swagmessiah08 (talk) 22:31, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

This hasn't been proven. Setarip (talk) 11:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Uprisings in the South

There seem to be uprisings and army units switching sides in the South. They are alsonshown on the map, but they receive no mention in the article 2A02:3037:60D:D85E:E9F1:BF09:25D:D489 (talk) 19:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

See the See also section and also the discussion section above. We don't (yet?) seem to have sources linking these. Boud (talk) 21:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

The third paragraph in the Analysis section has a reference to the Russian-leased Tartus base. This is the only mention of it in the article, but it lacks a wikilink to the existing page "Tartus naval base." A wikilink should be added there. SadaharuWhoa (talk) 23:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

It's been added. David O. Johnson (talk) 23:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 December 2024 (2)

Add

to images Viceskeeni2 (talk) 23:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

This image is not improve the article. We need best quality maps.  Not done RealStranger43286 (talk) 12:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Welp Viceskeeni2 (talk) 15:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
What about now? Viceskeeni2 (talk) 18:32, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
 Question: what is is supposed to represent? M.Bitton (talk) 02:05, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
The 2024 Hama offensive Viceskeeni2 (talk) 05:09, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
 Not done: Marked not done by another editor The AP (talk) 19:26, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 December 2024

Change "November" to "December" in the last sentence of the introductory text: "On 5 November 2024, opposition forces captured the city of Hama" (see the reference accompanying the sentence - the event occurred today, December 5th). Lucavalery (talk) 15:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

 Already done The AP (talk) 05:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 December 2024 (2)

Change On 5 November 2024, opposition forces captured the city of Hama.[37] To On 5 December 2024, opposition forces captured the city of Hama.[37] 194.78.32.26 (talk) 15:51, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

 Already done The AP (talk) 05:18, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect map

Around this part, it shows the HTS/SNA having control over it. However, that is most likely not the case.

This page's image

In the Wikipedia page for the Syrian civil war, it instead shows this:

Syrian civil war image

On https://syria.liveuamap.com, it shows that the Syrian government has control over the area and the image used in the page for the Syrian civil war is most likely the correct version. Should we update the map?

liveuamap syrian map

Setarip (talk) 20:58, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

That area is a desert with very few settlements, it's unlikely that pro-government forces have a presence there. Ecrusized (talk) 09:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes, but rebel forces never entered that area as the map shows. Setarip (talk) 11:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 6 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) RealStranger43286 (talk) 05:14, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Northwestern Syria offensive (2024) → 2024 Syrian rebel offensive – The current title, Norhwestern Syria offensive, is no longer accurate as the fighting has reached Homs, in central Syria. There is also fighting between rebels and pro-government forces in the far south of the country, in Daraa Governorate. I suggest the title 2024 Syrian rebel offensive, as it aligns with another similar article, 2021 Taliban offensive. Another alternative could be 2024 Syrian opposition offensive. Ecrusized (talk) 12:18, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose, the previous RM pointed out that there were simultaneous offensives in Southern Syria and in Northeastern Syria. To distinguish it from the other operations, calling it "Northwestern" is as clear as it can be. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 13:13, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support.
The offensive has clearly expanded beyond NW Syria, yet it doesn't make sense to wholly separate, say, the Aleppo and Hama/Homs/Salamiyah parts of the offensive as they're part of one continuous set of manoeuvres, part of the same operations room, etc etc. All previous NW Syria offensives on Wikipedia have been based around Idlib, westernmost Aleppo, and northernmost Hama governorate. There's no reason to consider Homs or Salamiyah (or Daraa/Suwayda where there are now uprisings, though they could be considered separate from the main offensive as they're not led by HTS or the Al-Fatah al-Mubin Operations room) 'North-West Syria' and it is not in the 'tradition' of Wikipedia to do as such. LevatorScapulaeSyndrome (talk) 13:26, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support. The offensive was explicitly coordinated with the southern one, and the northeastern one was fairly closely related too. They'll likely be moved into the same article soon, depending on events, but since this one is by far the biggest and most successful, it should make up the core of the new article. Depending how events play out, I think moving this over, and then likely merging the others in, would be the best course of action. I wouldn't mind "Syrian rebel offensives" instead, though. Alsadius (talk) 14:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
explicitly coordinated? Any sources? (educated guesses by Wikipedians != WP:RS) Boud (talk) 21:18, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support renaming it to something like that or "2024 Syrian campaign", with the main article of the northwestern Syria offensive being made into its own article. The conflict has spread to eastern Syria and also rebel groups in the south of the country The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 14:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
The main article for the northwestern Syria offensive could simply be Operation Dawn of Freedom. CitrusHemlock 15:12, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
No, because that is purely a conflict between the SNA (and thus not the HTS) and the SDF, and is thus unrelated to the war being fought at the moment between HTS and allies (including, to a limited extent, the SDF) against Assad's own forces. --Dynamo128 (talk) 15:20, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
This would not work as "Operation Dawn of Freedom" only refers to the SNA's specific operations in the northern and eastern Aleppo Governorate; it does not include HTS & allies' operations in the Aleppo, Idlib, Hama, and Homs governorates. Lightspecs (talk) 15:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support: the offensive has ballooned far beyond what, seemingly, the rebels themselves thought possible, and certainly international observers in their near totality too. The page itself thus should now reflect the current conflict ongoing in Syria at the time, while a separate page, if necessary, can be created to summarize the events that took place in Idlib, Aleppo, Hama and are taking place in Homs. All the while, the current page should be edited to reflect events going on in the east and the south of Syria. --Dynamo128 (talk) 15:19, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose. The HTS-led offensive in northwestern (and central-western) Syria is still separate from the offensives in southern and eastern Syria. Lightspecs (talk) 15:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support. The rebels now control some areas of the south and it seems that they will expand throughout the rest of the country. Regioncalifornia (talk) 16:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support but Page should be merged with Southern Syria Offensive DerEchteJoan (talk) 16:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree. Regioncalifornia (talk) 19:00, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support It has expanded way beyond the north now and is a major offensive Yesyesmrcool (talk) 16:33, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support it is no longer only in the northwest. Setarip (talk) 18:37, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support but the page should be merged with Southern Syria Offensive and Operation Dawn of Freedom. The blitzkrieg offensive has now evolved way beyond just the early northwestern campaign now. Theofunny (talk) 20:05, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Support But a merger may be needed with other pages for offensives in different areas. - UtoD (UtoD) 20:05, 6 December 2024 (UTC) UtoD
Oppose as WP:SYNTHESIS. Unless we have WP:RS to say that the HTS military offensive and the military offensives by the non-HTS local forces in the south and by the SDF and some local groups in Deir ez-Zor are all part of a single coordinated military campaign, putting them into a single article risks being WP:SYNTHESIS. We can reasonably speculate that either there was coordination, or the groups were inspired from each other thanks to rapid, highly trusted internet communication and jumped on the opportunity to take action at the same time, but these speculations are WP:OR that only justify sanity-check type comments on a talk page. The actions in the south appear to have a much bigger component of street protests rather than pure military actions - sociologically they're not the same thing as those in the north. Boud (talk) 21:09, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose. They're entirely separate offensives, with different groups involved, and in different areas of Syria. David O. Johnson (talk) 01:53, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Support - There is clear evidence these are rebels. Maybe the title should be Syria rebels northwest offensive. DownTownRich (talk) 02:47, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Support with reservations - It has indeed become more expansive than expected, so a title change could be needed. However, I don't think these offensives were specifically coordinated – after all, HTS wasn't even expecting to find the Syrian government collapsing. So I'm thinking a title like "2024 Syrian opposition offensives" might be the most succinct name for them. Image2012 (talk) 03:07, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Support no longer contained to just the Northwest. Scuba 03:53, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

Suggestion:
The original Northwestern Syria offensive launched by the Military Operations Command should get a page titled "Northwestern Syria offensive (2024)" or "Operation Deterrence of Aggression".
As for the article describing the drastic events involving the defeat and expulsion of pro-Assad forces across Syria, I support the title "2024 Syrian revolutionary campaigns". Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 15:24, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Suggestion:
How about 2024 M5 Motorway Offensive? All of the objectives of the rebels, from Aleppo to Hama to Homs, have been along the M5 Motorway, and most of the fighting has occurred on this front. Other interesting options the 2024 Tahrir Al-Sham offensive or 2024 HTS offensive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.220.81.114 (talk) 01:11, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Southern Operations Room redirect error

The Southern Operations Room in the infobox still links to the Southern Front instead of the wiki page for Southern Operations Room. This does not happen in the Syrian civil war page, where it links properly SirDoor (talk) 13:34, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

northern storm brigade

I think we should probably put the northern storm brigade under the Levantine front due to its affiliation as opposed to having it look like a separate faction. The same was done with the NFL factions on this same page Bedandbreakfast118 (talk) 19:45, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Damascus has fallen

"Militarily, Damascus has fallen" https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/07/middleeast/syria-rebels-homs-damascus-assad-intl/index.html Theofunny (talk) 02:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Info box change

For the territorial changes change 'Syrian opposition forces capture more than 100 towns and villages, take control of Aleppo, Hama, Homs, Deir ez-Zor, Daraa, and Suwayda, cut off the M5 highway, completely take control of Shahba Canton from SDF and the border with Israel' to 'Syrian opposition forces and the SDF capture all of Syria minus the Golan heights, Khmeimim Air Base and Tartus naval base (the last two are now controlled by Russia)' Napoleon583 (talk) 15:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 7 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Procedural close. Moved by editor Juxlos to proposed title citing WP:SNOW. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 22:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

2024 Syrian opposition offensive → 2024 Syrian opposition offensives – There are (so far) no reliable sources giving any evidence that the HTS-led northern military offensive, the Southern Operations Room (Druze tribes(?) + other opposition)-led Southern Syria offensive (2024), the Revolutionary Commando Army-led Palmyra offensive (2024), and the Syrian Democratic Forces-led Deir ez-Zor offensive (2024) are a single centrally controlled military action. The four articles currently attribute leadership of the four (per Wikipedia) military actions to four different groups/coalitions. The title should be changed from singular offensive to plural offensives. Boud (talk) 11:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Support for reasons stated. LevatorScapulaeSyndrome (talk) 13:35, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Support Also 2024 Hama offensive and 2024 Homs offensive should be merged, as well as the merge proposals by Regioncalifornia (Talk:2024 Syrian opposition offensive) Terz42 (talk) 14:24, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Support Per nomination, I can't see anyone referring to the events as one singular offensive. Gust Justice (talk) 14:38, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Support, Deterrence of Aggression/Northwestern Syria offensive (2024) should become it's own article again too Braganza (talk) 14:48, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Rename to Fall of Syria (2024) Sgnpkd (talk) 14:53, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Support more appropriate, they even have their own operation names. The Hama and Homs offensives are probably more appropriate to consider as "Western Syria offensive" as it's odd to call a 2-3 day followup operation an offensive. Juxlos (talk) 14:53, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Support for the reasons stated Theofunny (talk) 18:09, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The size of forces in Infobox

@Braganza: What you are doing is original research, you put here in this diff that the numbers can't be accurate by saying "clearly not accurate anymore, looking at the collapse of SAA." This is complete original research, there is no source for this other then the idea that it must be wrong to you, and it's also synthesis of information. I also want to point out you broke the 1RR rule by reverting here and then here, 9 hours apart. See here, WP:1RR, you have to wait 24 hours before a revert so please revert that edit. Thanks. Des Vallee (talk) 20:21, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

@Des Vallee: i would simply not take old numbers. When sizes of forces are included, they are for the offensive itself like the sources for 2021 Taliban offensive or the Northwestern Syria offensive (December 2019 – March 2020). Braganza (talk) 20:29, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
@Braganza: The 2021 Taliban offensive you linked to are often estimates that are months old prior to the offensive, in Northwestern Syria offensive (December 2019 – March 2020) the sources for size of forces are a year old, as an example citing number from January 2019 on fighting during December 2019. So you can see that old sources can still be useful, and they are. New sources are usually better, but old sources are also good. Also thanks for the revert! Des Vallee (talk) 20:56, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
@Des Vallee: SNA, HTS and SDF are really old though. Apparently "The Military Balance" actually gives different figures for the other groups: SDF 50,000; SNA 70,000 and HTS 10,000.
Though the book does not state when exactly the estimations were made (i am wondering since its a book about military strength globally where you would expect some figures to be outdated [not talking about the Syria figures specifically] and thus mentioned when they were made) Braganza (talk) 21:08, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Take how all population numbers for Syria we still use 2004 data (Qamishli/Raqqa), that's over 20 years and yes the information there is incredibly outdated, despite this they are still useful. Where did you find 50,000 and 70,000? Des Vallee (talk) 21:14, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
the next page Braganza (talk) 21:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
the old number are simply not reliable, apparently the Syrian Free Army is only 500 strong acc to 2023 sources and they were able to take eastern Damascus, Palmyra and other areas. Theofunny (talk) 11:40, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024

Add Damascus to the list of locations ZarifZarif3232 (talk) 02:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

  •  Done
Regioncalifornia (talk) 02:50, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Assad just died

Live telemetry data from a plane crash.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/SYR9218/history/20241208/0202Z Scoaldr (talk) 08:54, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This has not been verified yet. Viatori (talk) 11:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Russian state media claim that he's in Russia. Boud (talk) 22:39, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Status/result

Per infobox template only one thing is appropriate.

  • Collapse of pro-government forces and the Syrian Arab Republic is redundant
  • Rebels capture Aleppo, Hama, Daraa, Quneitra, Suwayda, Douma and Homs should be territorial changes, and already mentioned
  • SDF captures Deir ez-Zor not so important
  • Rebels cut off, surround, and capture the capital city of Syria, Damascus of course
  • Iran starts withdrawing its personnel from Syria not worthy mentioning on the infobox
  • Russian naval assets withdraw from Tartus same
  • Fall of the Assad dynasty maybe the only one worthy to mention. Either Syrian opposition victory (in future maybe) or this.

Beshogur (talk) 10:52, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-protected edit request on 8 December 2024

In the "Opening advances" section, please change "In the latter half of the day" to "Later that day". More readable English, plus, the half of the day that it happened (how is that measured anyway?) is of no importance. 2001:BB6:4756:AC58:95E8:3FB4:A9FB:4D8F (talk) 16:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Mopping-up

I'm seeing on the map that the coast has also fallen but have not seen references or details. Request that this be expounded in the article itself. Borgenland (talk) 17:43, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Turkish involvement

Turkey should be added into at least the support section of the parties as it is clear they at least had a role in preparation of the operation.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-says-syrian-rebels-launched-limited-operation-near-aleppo

There is also some evidence that they have directly participated in strikes themselves against the government forces https://x.com/ScharoMaroof/status/1861724492558483755 Donbarzinitut (talk) 01:35, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

@Donbarzinitut Support: Turkey allowed many fighters to pass through their territory safely, and they have directly attacked the government. Internationed (talk) 08:52, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Support: Turkey is one of the main supporters of the rebels, funds them and according to some is opening a front in Aleppo: https://english.alarabiya.net/views/2024/11/30/as-lebanon-s-battlefield-closes-syria-s-reignites-why-is-turkey-opening-aleppo-front-now Viceskeeni2 (talk) 21:36, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
 Comment: Turkey has denied its involvement.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syrian-government-needs-reconcile-with-its-people-opposition-turkey-says-2024-12-02/ - Anwon (talk) 17:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Turkey hasn't denied involvement, it was only some unnamed Turkish official from Ankara. Viceskeeni2 (talk) 18:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Türkiye not involved in Aleppo conflict, but prepared for potential migration wave: FM Fidan - Türkiye Today
This article, although clearly pro-Turkey, features the press conference by FM Hakan Fidan in which he says that Turkey has no involvement in the Aleppo offensive. Therefore that unnamed Turkish official is the top diplomat itself, but it for some reason was not covered by international media, but it could still proved by watching the press conference video.
Lebanese state media also features the same remark of him: الوكالة الوطنية للإعلام - Turkish Foreign Minister: We will take precautionary steps regarding the conflict in Syria
Turkey not involved in Aleppo, won't allow 'terrorist-led state': FM | Al Mayadeen English
Azerbaijani: FM: Türkiye is not involved in ongoing clashes in Aleppo
Turkish, Russian FMs discuss Syria's situation, Astana process | Caliber.Az
Armenian: Turkey does not participate in clashes in Aleppo: Fidan AscendencyXXIV (talk) 02:06, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
alright 👍 Viceskeeni2 (talk) 14:35, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Then it should be listed as "Supported by Turkey (denied)" Cobblebricks (talk) 23:46, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
In this case, even though there's no evidence, Ukraine is also claimed to be among supporters.
Ukrainian Trained, Turkish Sponsored Syrian Rebels Lead Assault on Aleppo
Has Ukraine helped the Syrian rebel offensive in Aleppo? | Middle East Eye AscendencyXXIV (talk) 04:59, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
The second source doesn't even claim this, just notes that Kiev Post said it without citing a source. Too tenuous to include. BobFromBrockley (talk) 23:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
There is no "support section". The conflict infobox template says The practice of writing in a "Supported by" subheading is deprecated. The list is for combatants, not a list of countries that simply sent or sold weapons or provided training. To add it in a "support" section you need a put a note with better sources explaining the "support" like Belarus allowing Russia to launch attacks from it in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - UtoD 05:51, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose There isn't any evidence of any third party supporting the opposition forces during this offensive. Ecrusized (talk) 12:49, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Strongly oppose adding any "supported by" section to the infobox as it almost always makes it look bloated. Abo Yemen✉ 18:16, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Support The claim that Turkey is not supporting or involved with the offensive isn't true. The Syrian National Army takes direct command from Turkey, and are supplied directly by Turkey, and shares information with Turkey, and are usually described by sources as a proxy force of Turkey (1 2 3). Des Vallee (talk) 21:03, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
According to local sources, TuAF hit a tank belonging to the Assad regime with a UAV. Source (You may have difficulty finding it, if you search for this you will reach the relevant section: "Yerel kaynakların iddiasına göre TSK'ya ait bir SİHA, rejim tankını vurdu.") Since this incident is a claim by local sources, there may be a statement such as "claim" or "need for a stronger source" next to Turkey. Mustafa MVC 20:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose. No RSs presented here. BobFromBrockley (talk) 23:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Ukraine supporting Rebels

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/43117 2A02:3030:A62:FC4E:C86E:C70F:BE7C:6C58 (talk) 16:42, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Adding them to the "supported by" section will indicate that they're actively supporting during the battle, not only as a supplier.. which is so far proven to be not the case
- RamiPat (talk) 19:33, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
This also means that Ukraine sponsors international terrorism.
HTS is recognized as terrorists in the USA, England, Europe and the UN Radkgjm5787 (talk) 20:15, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
This is an extraordinary claim with just this one source, which itself gives as a source "According to reports on some Islamist social media sites". In short, oppose mention unless other independent sources concur. BobFromBrockley (talk) 23:19, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Iraqi militias fighting for Assad

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/pro-iranian-militias-enter-syria-iraq-aid-beleaguered-syrian-army-2024-12-02/

This source doesn’t list the names of the militias or their numbers, but “Iraqi militias” should be listed as a belligerent fighting alongside Assad. LordOfWalruses (talk) 22:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Support 👍 Viceskeeni2 (talk) 22:38, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
There is no credible evidence that Iraqi militias are fighting alongside Syrian troops in Northwestern Syria. 37.237.117.33 (talk) 12:50, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Even if they aren’t at the frontlines yet, the source that I have says that they’re at least in Syria on the way, so they should be listed. LordOfWalruses (talk) 15:18, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Support. Multiple reliable sources, e.g.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/12/04/iran-syria-hezbollah-iraq-militias-assad/
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iraqi-militias-enter-syria-reinforce-government-forces-military-sources-say-2024-12-02/
https://www.dw.com/en/syria-iraqi-militias-provide-assad-support/a-70936711
- BobFromBrockley (talk) 23:21, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Map

Hi

File:Northwestern Aleppo offensive (2024).svg seems to be better but should be updated. Panam2014 (talk) 21:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Map

Hama Is Under Rebel Control Map Must Be Changed. 78.172.61.182 (talk) 14:12, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Map

I've once again had to expand the map (for the 4th time) as the old one no longer covered the scale of the clashes. This one is in .jpg format because it was too big to upload as an .svg (10mb limit when it has embed images). Please let me know what you think.

Ecrusized (talk) 22:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Looks cute. Regioncalifornia (talk) 23:20, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Reportedly ISIS have taken over control of a couple of towns south of Deir ez Zour from Mahkan to Sharmiyah so that might need to be changed. Donbarzinitut (talk) 23:30, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi
Is it possible to have maps per areas? Panam2014 (talk) 01:38, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Of course, it's just more time consuming to update multiple maps. Also, rebels from the north have already reached Homs, and will likely reach Damascus in the coming days, so a regional map doesn't cover the extent of clashes. Ecrusized (talk) 09:19, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
ISIS doesn't control any settlements. Some maps show patches in the desert to indicate their presence but they have no permanent territorial control. Ecrusized (talk) 09:20, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Maybe have four maps which show the progression of the offensive, similar to the collage of images in the info box in Vietnam War. It’s not very informative to just have the end result Kowal2701 (talk) 14:05, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Hezbollah, Iran, Israel and Turkey

Reliable sources document that Iran and Hezbollah have sent some forces to the area – and that these forces have come under attack from Israel:

  • Israel killed a senior Hezbollah commander embedded in the Syrian Arab Army[6]
  • "The [Israeli] army claimed to have hit weapons transfer hubs and infrastructure used by Lebanese armed group Hezbollah, which has pledged backing for al-Assad and claims to have sent “supervising forces” to Homs."[7]
  • "Israeli aircraft bombed Hezbollah positions in the city of Al-Qusair, between Homs and the Lebanese border, preventing them from sending support to Homs. Israel informed Iran through an intermediary that it would not allow sending weapons or troops to Syria."[8]
  • "It was also reported on Sunday that Israel had instructed an Iranian plane heading for Damascus to turn around..."Iran has begun sending forces to Syria in an attempt to assist Assad and suppress the rebellion," he [Israeli official] said."[9]
  • "Israeli defense officials vowed Thursday that Iran would not be allowed to arm the Syrian military or reinforce it with troops as Islamist rebels continue to make rapid gains throughout the country...Israel bombed weapons storage facilities north of Damascus overnight, reportedly targeting chemical weapons to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands."[10]

As for Turkey:

VR (Please ping on reply) 20:41, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Israel

This is strongly WP:SYNTH. Israel has been striking Hezbollah targets it deems a threat since 2013. It is not involved in this round of fighting and certainly not supporting the rebels.
None of the sources cited state that Israel is supporting any of the sides in the conflict between pro-government and opposition forces. WP:OR. Ecrusized (talk) 21:00, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Did you see the above sources? Where exactly is the synthesis? The sources are very clear that Israel is actively attacking both Iranian and Hezbollah forces supporting Assad in Syria. VR (Please ping on reply) 21:04, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
It's entirety is synthesis. You have added Israel as a combatant to conflict between Syrian rebels and the government in which none of the sources states Israel has participated in. Like I've said in my above comment, Israel has been targeting Hezbollah and Iran linked targets in Syria since 2013. It most certainly has nothing to do with this round of fighting and none of the sources you've cited say it does, except the fact that they both accurred at the same time. Ecrusized (talk) 21:06, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
One of the sources is a Russian propaganda page Portal Kombat "syria.news-pravda.com" Forest576 (talk) 21:10, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Fine, but what about Al-Jazeera, Haaretz and Ynet news? And the fact that Israel killed Salman Jumaa, Hezbollah's top representative in the Syrian Army? Israel said they did so to prevent "Hezbollah’s entrenchment in Syria"[12] VR (Please ping on reply) 21:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Please take 2 minutes to read WP:SYNTH. You are just repeating the same thing again and again not matter how I respond to you. Ecrusized (talk) 21:23, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Unless there's been recent changes to the policy, I'm quite familiar with it. What are the two sources that I'm synthesizing together to make a conclusion? Every one of these sources, standing alone, says that Israel is attacking Hezbollah and Iranian efforts to assist Assad against the rebels.VR (Please ping on reply) 21:25, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
You aren't even synthesizing anything, what you've added is completely original research and may even count as a hoax since none of the references you are citing say that Israel has been involved on any side during the round of fighting between the pro-government and opposition forces. The fact that you are restoring this highly controvesial edit after being reverted, while saying "read talk page" where no one except yourself had yet been to share an opinion on this edit is concerning and its certainly not how WP:BRD works. I'm adding a synthesis template to the article so that more users may participate in this discussion. Please note that this article is under 1RR so further reverts, including those of the templates, may result in a block. Ecrusized (talk) 21:35, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Glad we finally agree that I'm not violating WP:SYNTH. Is it that you oppose Israel being placed in the "same side" as the rebels in the infobox? If so, we can discuss placement, along with placement of Turkey, as the positions of both countries are not so black-and-white. Maybe we can have the third column in the infobox for "other parties", where it is made clear the other parties are not necessarily aligned with each other.
But it is quite clear from the sources that Israel is preventing Hezbollah and Iran from helping Assad.VR (Please ping on reply) 21:41, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Israel is not aligned with the rebels. It even helped UNDOF fend off a rebel attack [13] Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 23:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Would you be ok putting Israel and Turkey and others who are involved in a separate column? Your source and the sources I have listed above all show that Israel is involved in this conflict.VR (Please ping on reply) 23:40, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
No, they do not state that at all. Please stop adding originally researched content. Turkey is not involved in the fighting between government and rebels either. The fighting ongoing with the Kurds has a separate article called Operation Dawn of Freedom. Ecrusized (talk) 23:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Operation Dawn of Freedom is very much within the scope of this article (as that article already notes), its a sub-article to this one.VR (Please ping on reply) 04:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Like I said, Turkey did not take military action against the Syrian Government during this conflict. So if you add that it will once again be original research. I do not understand why you are trying to add third party countries into a conflict where they are clearly not involved. Ecrusized (talk) 09:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Until you substantially engage with the sources I've provided (including below), this discussion will go nowhere. VR (Please ping on reply) 16:35, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Turkey

i personally think the claims of Turkish strikes are likely BUT SDF [purposely] confuses SNA with Turkey by calling them "Turkish occupiers" or "Turkish mercenaries" Braganza (talk) 21:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Turkey definitely supports the rebels. Setarip (talk) 16:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Israel in it's own category

I believe Israel should be in it's own category since it's engagement is not with Assad Government or direct Air support to Rebels but more against Hezbollah and Iranian affiliated militas in Syria Muhllo (talk) 23:07, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

That makes sense.VR (Please ping on reply) 23:40, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Personisinsterest I see you added the Israeli invasion[15]. Should Israel be added in its own column in the infobox? VR (Please ping on reply) 18:03, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Yeah that would be fine, it's been bombing Assad and the rebels the same. It should get its own section. Personisinsterest (talk) 19:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Disagree, and unsure why this is a new talk topic when it's already got a section immediately preceeding. BobFromBrockley (talk) 23:27, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024 (2)

At the beginning of the Analysis section, the phrase "major ally of the Syrian government during the civil war" is preceded with an excess quotation mark and period. These should be removed. Thanks. Tolozen (talk) 06:59, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

islamic state

as referenced in Deir ez-Zor offensive (2024) (note especially the article from december 6 linked in the infobox stating that ISIS activity is on the rise, shouldn't ISIS be listed as a fourth combatant here? Capt Jim (talk) 14:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

There hasn't been any reports of ISIS engaging with either rebels or pro-government forces during this offensive. The article about the fighting with SDF precedes this offensive. Ecrusized (talk) 14:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Agree with Ecrusized. Let's see what RSs say once dust has cleared. BobFromBrockley (talk) 23:28, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Munbic

Munbic is now under the control of syrian national army 2A02:AA7:4109:8676:6A13:1583:AF1B:9F01 (talk) 11:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Not done – please clarify Abo Yemen✉ 11:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Please change images

Please change logo of Southern operations room from Syrian opposition to . Thank you! SolxrgashiUnited (talk) 14:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2024

add

Syrian Republic
File:New Flag of the Syrian Republic.svg
Adopted2024
DesignA horizontal triband of red, white, and black, with the Republic's name in green Arabic letters ("الجمهورية السورية") on he white band

46.5.128.86 (talk) 17:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Abo Yemen✉ 17:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)


Aftermath section

This event led to profound changes and subsequent events in it's aftermath. The article is in need of an aftermath section. 2A01:799:B1E:F800:8C51:7E9D:2F0B:9077 (talk) 09:59, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

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