Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard

Welcome to the Christianity Noticeboard This page serves to coordinate the various discussions taking place throughout the Christianity-related project talkpages. Even though , there are numerous Christianity-related projects, with many different conversations going on at the same time. This Noticeboard hopes to achieve some kind of order in keeping track of the various goings-on. You are welcome to add to the discussion.

Recent changes of Christianity-related talkpages

List of abbreviations (help):

D: Edit made at Wikidata
r: Edit flagged by ORES
N: New page
m: Minor edit
b: Bot edit
(±123): Page byte size change

23 December 2024

diffhist Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism 21:48 +182 Johnbod talk contribs (→Avignon Papacy: No, you don't understand it correctly. Have you tried reading the first lines of those articles?)
diffhist Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism 21:06 +286 GoodDay talk contribs (→Avignon Papacy: new section) Tag: New topic

Alerts for Christianity-related articles

Today's featured articles

05 Jan 2025 – Cyfeilliog (talk · edit · hist) will be Today's Featured Article; see blurb

Did you know

13 Dec 2024 – Frankfurt silver inscription (talk · edit · hist) was nominated for DYK by Renerpho (t · c); see discussion
09 Nov 2024 – Revelation of the Magi (talk · edit · hist) was nominated for DYK by SnowFire (t · c); see discussion

Articles for deletion

22 Dec 2024 – Missionary Families of Christ (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by CycloneYoris (t · c); see discussion (4 participants)
21 Dec 2024 – Jacob David (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Surayeproject3 (t · c); see discussion (3 participants)
17 Dec 2024 – Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Church (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Traumnovelle (t · c); see discussion (4 participants)
16 Dec 2024 – Darel Chase (bishop) (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Dclemens1971 (t · c); see discussion (3 participants; relisted)
12 Dec 2024 – KCMR (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Mvcg66b3r (t · c); see discussion (4 participants; relisted)
18 Dec 2024 – Der Herr wird dich mit seiner Güte segnen (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by Polyamorph (t · c) was withdrawn by Doomsdayer520 (t · c) on 21 Dec 2024; see discussion (5 participants)
05 Dec 2024 – Timōrātus (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by Graywalls (t · c) was closed as delete by Liz (t · c) on 21 Dec 2024; see discussion (4 participants; relisted)
05 Dec 2024 – Vision of God Records (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by Graywalls (t · c) was closed as delete by Liz (t · c) on 18 Dec 2024; see discussion (4 participants; relisted)

Proposed deletions

16 Dec 2024 – Jacob David (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by Surayeproject3 (t · c) was deproded by LouisAragon (t · c) (author) on 17 Dec 2024
15 Dec 2024 – Communicators for Women Religious (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by LibStar (t · c) was deleted
11 Dec 2024 – St. John's Episcopal Church (Roseville, California) (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by Reywas92 (t · c) was deleted

Categories for discussion

22 Dec 2024 – Category:Ante-Nicene Christian female saints (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
22 Dec 2024 – Category:Christian saints of late antiquity (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
22 Dec 2024 – Category:Christians of late antiquity (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
22 Dec 2024 – Category:Ante-Nicene Christians (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
16 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1370s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
16 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1360s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
16 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1280s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
15 Dec 2024 – Category:Anti-LGBTQ and Pentecostal churches (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by MikutoH (t · c); see discussion
13 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1220s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
13 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1170s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion

(4 more...)

Redirects for discussion

23 Dec 2024 – Chick-Fila (talk · edit · hist) →Chick-fil-A was RfDed by Someone-123-321 (t · c); see discussion

Files for discussion

20 Dec 2024 – File:Wyszyński.jpg (talk · edit · hist) (on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) was FfDed by Iruka13 (t · c); see discussion

Christianity

Missionary Families of Christ

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Page heavily edited by a user who was blocked for promotional editing. Sources found in article are mostly primary and these appear to have been added for promotional purposes. Notability also seems to be lacking, and there is no evidence that this subject warrants an encyclopedic article. CycloneYoris ^talk! 19:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Christianity and Philippines. CycloneYoris ^talk! 19:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:08, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Sourcing in the article isn't sufficient, and this is about all I could find [1]. Gsearch is only showing primary sources, their website, a facebook page. Nothing for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 22:38, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. The article relies heavily on primary sources, and only blogs and/or non-independent sources that cover this community are available. As Oaktree b said, nothing is available that can prove its notability. AstrooKai (Talk) 08:35, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not seeing any WP:SIGCOV in independent, reliable, secondary sources. Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jacob David

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WP:NOTE, subject of article only has two sources discussing his life Surayeproject3 (talk) 19:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be more specific, searching the subject on Google only brings up two major sources regarding his biography, and searching his name in Farsi doesn't seem to bring other results as well. I previously requested a deletion for the article based on this criteria. Surayeproject3 (talk) 19:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Christianity, Iran, and Illinois. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:15, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Per WP:ANYBIO, the reference in Iranica is sufficient to merit inclusion on Wikipedia. I also found this from the Assyrian Cultural Foundation. More appears easily found using the Google search "Jacob David Assyrian Chicago" sans quotation marks. ~ Pbritti (talk) 21:24, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I bet further print resources are available, per this. ~ Pbritti (talk) 21:30, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of a person being notable enough for a Wikipedia article, does it matter more the quality of the sources, or the quantity available to write on them? If it's just the above I'm sure I or another editor can work to enhance the article with more information, but I'm gonna keep the deletion discussion open. Surayeproject3 (talk) 16:42, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It's borderline based on the sources, which are pretty thin unless, as Pbritti notes, there are print sources not currently accessible, but I see a bare GNG pass with the Encyclopedia Iranica biography and this article at the Assyrian Cultural Foundation. (It's not an ANYBIO pass, since Encyclopedia Iranica isn't a national directory of biography, but it is SIGCOV and thus contributes to GNG.) Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Church

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Not sure why this minor group of nuns has it's own article but I cannot find secondary sources covering them. My searches turn up more information on a Ugandan group with the same name. Traumnovelle (talk) 23:30, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Traumnovelle (talk) 23:30, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 00:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There is WP:SIGCOV of this order in the independent Catholic outlets National Catholic Reporter, Catholic World Report and National Catholic Register, as well as in the Spokane Spokesman-Review (here and here. It passes WP:GNG. (As for the identically named orders in Uganda and Ghana, if someone gets around to creating pages for them, we can move this article and use the current title for disambiguation.) Dclemens1971 (talk) 19:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in view of the multiple reliable sources identified above that together show a pass of WP:GNG so that deletion is unnecessary in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 20:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Darel Chase (bishop)

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A non-notable clergy person. Sources that mention Chase are limited to WP:PRIMARYSOURCES (his personal website, a blog from a bishop in his church, his church's official website x2 x3 x4, x5, his church's international communion website, and corporate documents on the KY secretary of state's site); and an apparent WP:SPS WordPress blog. Several sources do not even mention Chase at all ([2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]); these are contributing to WP:SYNTH to draw connections about the subject not present in the sources. I found nothing qualifying in a WP:BEFORE search. Finally, let me address WP:BISHOPS since I am guessing it will come up. While AfD participants have debated the applicability of BISHOPS (and I have generally accepted it as a quasi-guideline since WP:CLERGYOUTCOMES align with it, even though it's not a P&G), this bishop does not even qualify under BISHOPS. The church he leads is a micro-denomination that is not part of the Anglican Communion or recognized by any of its member churches. Moreover, Chase is the pastor of an individual congregation, and bishops in this category are per CLERGYOUTCOMES not typically found notable by virtue of their office. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Christianity, and Kentucky. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Oh man, that's an interesting character. I'm seeing a remarkably marginal case for notability here, but not enough for me to !vote one way or the other. Dclemens1971, do you mind pinging me at my talk page if I don't get back to this by next weekend? I would like to contribute to this discussion, but it looks like too deep a rabbit hole for this workweek. ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Pbritti I will try to remember! Dclemens1971 (talk) 04:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely an interesting character, I'd say. He does definitely have a marginal case of notability, so I'll vote for it to be kept. And, isn't it a bit biased to call it a micro-denomination? It is a Christian denomination nonetheless, regardless of its size. It is also quite clear that he is not within the Anglican Communion. Is this a publishing house for authorized religions, or an encyclopedia? - TheLionHasSeen (talk) 15:09, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's completely unbiased and reasonable to call it a "micro-denomination". It's own website parish directory lists just four churches. While another part of its website claims 43 churches (scroll down), there's no validation of this. Chase's own diocese appears to have just three churches. Two other dioceses (Diocese of St. Ignatius Loyola Diocese of the North-East appear to have just one church each, and a fourth (Diocese of Pelican Bay) has no website with information. And WP:BISHOPS and WP:CLERGYOUTCOMES, to the extent they are relied upon, specify "Anglican Communion" -- while I might prefer a different dividing line, I didn't make that up. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:MADEUP, WP:NOTFB, and WP:SIGCOV. You can't just call yourself a bishop. You have to be ordained in apostolic succession. WP:BISHOP is a guideline that only creates a presumption of existence that, like WP:NPOL, sources must exist somewhere, for bishops of major denominations. BISHOP doesn't necessarily assume notability; it just says how to set naming conventions. There is a different outcome guideline here: WP:CLERGY:
People listed as bishops in Pentecostal denominations may fail AFDs unless they have significant reliable third-party coverage. Clerics who hold the title bishop but only serve an individual parish or congregation are typically considered the same as local pastors or parish priests.
The subject was, after lawsuits, left with a single congregation and fails significant coverage; all but two of the sources are not independent of the subject: one is about how secular and canon courts returned church property and doesn't even mention him by name and the other is a brief corporate listing. That is far below significant coverage, almost a velleity of verification. Bearian (talk) 22:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I think this discussion needs a little more time to come to a clearer consensus. Some excellent points are being made though.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: While I'm sensitive to TheLionHasSeen's argument, this is a remarkably small denomination that's one of the hundreds that have a bishop-to-laity ratio smaller than my school's teacher-to-student ratio. As such, I'm not seeing a case for presumed notability. Recent coverage of a local scandal by Dreher notwithstanding, there is not particularized SIGCOV here that contributes to GNG. If there's something I'm not privy to that suggests notability might be established soon, I would not be opposed to an AtD like draftification. ~ Pbritti (talk) 16:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

KCMR

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Short article; no sources; notable only on local level. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 14:02, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Radio, Christianity, and Iowa. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 14:02, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Redirect~~ to List of radio stations in Iowa, where this station is mentioned. Not seeing any evidence it passes WP:GNG or any other applicable guideline. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The new sources seem fairly routine, but with them added (and in the interest of consensus), I have no strong objection to a keep. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:06, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep I've given this a shot. It's not a very interesting station for expansion because its format has never changed and the articles on it in the local newspaper run on the puffy side, but at least we have a start date and station history and references. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep: If nothing else, the "no sources" issue appears to have been resolved with the newspaper sourcing (and being a short article is not necessarily a reason to delete in and of itself, at least when improvements are possible). The weakness is because this is still more of an "edge" case, as it were, under the current tighter inclusion standards (compared to when the article was created in 2008). WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 21:36, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep in view of the reliable sources references added to the article since nomination, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 20:48, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity Proposed deletions (WP:PROD)

Sweden Yearly Meeting (via WP:PROD on 6 November 2024)

Categories for discussion

Christian religious leaders: further follow-up required, see Category talk:Religious leaders#Clergy categories

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