Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism

Abigail Favale

I have created a draft for Abigail Favale. The article may be of interest to members of this project. Thriley (talk) 20:26, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Inboxes for Pope Saints

For a number of Popes who have been canonised since their deaths (as well as other canonised clergy), there seems to be a disparity between the use of the Saint infobox and the Christian Leader infobox: some place the saint infobox at the top of the article, directly after the Christian leader infobox; others place the saint infobox under the canonisation/veneration section of the article. Is there any established consensus on which is best here? Also, all of the information in the saint infobox tends to be duplicated in the sainthood section of the Christian leader infobox – is it not therefore redundant to use both infoboxes within an article? Vesuvio14 (talk) 00:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, we should only have one per article, but people love adding them. Johnbod (talk) 02:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

There should only be one infobox, probably the Christian Leader one for more modern popes at very least; and then using the module attribute to add in the relevant saint sections if any other things are needed. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 13:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Saints Cosmas and Damian#Requested move 9 December 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Saints Cosmas and Damian#Requested move 9 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 19:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Medieval Catholic churches by decade categories: populate or upmerge?

Please join this discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:13, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Avignon Papacy

If I understand it correctly, the Avignon Papacy is about a line of popes before the Western Schism. If so? I had to de-link at pages of anti-popes during the schism. GoodDay (talk) 21:06, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

No, you don't understand it correctly. Have you tried reading the first lines of those articles? Johnbod (talk) 21:48, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

The infobox says "1309–1376", with Gregory XI listed as the last pope, which indicates before the Western Schism. Therefore the intro is inconsistent, if the 1378–1417 Schism era is included. To avoid the inconsistencies, the Avignon Papacy page should be split into two pages - Avignon Papacy 1309–1376 & Avignon Papacy 1378–1417. At the very least, the schism info is misplaced. GoodDay (talk) 17:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

There is a current RfC to create an independent Catholicism article

Please head over here Talk:Catholic Church#RfC: Establishing an independent Catholicism article, thank you! Kenneth Kho (talk) 08:55, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Jimmy Wales has addressed the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences back in 2012

While searching in the Internet Artchive to improve this WP article, I sumbled upon this 2012 CNS article which tells how Jimmy Wales gave an address at the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences where he had been invited.

I was unaware of it, and I found this information funny, so I am relaying it to you here. Veverve (talk) 14:20, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

RfC concerning this WikiProject

An RfC on a topic that concerns this WikiProject has been opened at: Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Request for comments: in cases of a large numbers of religious celebrations in a religious calendar (e.g., feast day of saints), can they all be listed in a non-list WP article? Veverve (talk) 18:30, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Diocese page titles

I am quite a bit annoyed by the unnecessarily long page titles such as Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Philadelphia, Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Paris, etc. These should obviously be at Archdiocese of Philadelphia, Archdiocese of Paris. Is there a guideline somewhere that prescribes this preemptive disambiguation? If so, why does it seemingly target only Catholic dioceses? Compare Roman Catholic Diocese of Westminster with Diocese of Canterbury. Surtsicna (talk) 21:55, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

The Catholic Diocese of Rome is also without a prefix. The reason it's on most dioceses is consistency. It's the same for Anglican and Episcopal dioceses. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 04:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Consistency between which pages? These examples seem to point to an inconsistency. Surtsicna (talk) 10:53, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Other than the primary dioceses, that is, Rome and Canterbury, all dioceses have their denominational prefix.

I imagine that many years ago there was a discussion and consensus on this. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 17:15, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

But that is not correct. Check Category:Dioceses of the Church of England. The pages are titled Diocese of Oxford, Diocese of Chester, Diocese of Gloucester, and so on. The denominational prefix is exceptional. I would like to know if there is a guideline or a naming convention, and where the appropriate venue for a naming convention discussion would be. Surtsicna (talk) 22:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Hmmmm. I wonder what WikiProject Anglicanism thinks about that; per WP:RCC and other sources, the "Roman Catholic Diocese of..." convention is 18 years old, and was decided on for consistency among page names even for when there is not necessarily ambiguity. I think we'd need some massive consensus to change roughly 3000 page names. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 23:17, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. I imagined that would be the reason. Interestingly, WP:CONSISTENT addresses this situation: we have Georgia (country) because of ambiguity, but we do not have Spain (country) for consistency with Georgia (country). Apparently, the Anglican dioceses do not need these appendages while the Catholic diocese pages have unnecessarily long and unnecessarily complicated names. We should discuss it. Surtsicna (talk) 23:39, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

In the case of Philadelphia, there is both a Roman/Latin Rite Catholic jurisdiction along with a Ukrainian Catholic one. Dcheney (talk) 04:51, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, no, there's only one Archdiocese of Philadelphia, as there's a Ukrainian Catholic Archeparchy of Philadelphia. I'm firmly for DarthStabro's proposal. ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:55, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

The proposal to discuss this with WikiProject Anglicanism as well, Pbritti? Surtsicna (talk) 10:39, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

I meant to add you. We should have consistency, and your proposal is wise. ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:07, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Providence College

Providence College has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 03:06, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Antiqua et Nova

I just created Antiqua et Nova which was just issued by the Vatican. It addresses "the anthropological and ethical challenges raised by AI." Thriley (talk) 19:18, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Joseph Cucchiara

This stub has been tagged as unreferenced for 15 years. I'm not clear as to why this priest was notable. Is he a servant of God? Bearian (talk) 22:20, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

@Bearian: I'm getting good hits searching the Chinese version of his name. There's a hospital named for him Hong Kong and it looks like he's pretty well-documented for his mission activity there. CCing Uriel1022 to ask if there's enough to establish notability. ~ Pbritti (talk) 01:04, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Can one of you please add in those sources? Bearian (talk) 06:37, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

@Bearian: @Pbritti: Let me do some digging. Uriel1022 (talk) 14:59, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. I see the work. Bearian (talk) 17:58, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

RfC on dropping preemptive disambiguation

Should we drop the prefix "Roman Catholic" (or "Catholic") from the diocese and archdiocese pages where no disambiguation is needed? 11:08, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Survey

• Yes, because unnecessary disambiguation is contrary to WP:CONSISTENT and of no help to anyone. In a vast majority of cases, the Catholic diocese is the only diocese so named. We can also see Anglican dioceses without the denominational prefix in categories Dioceses of the Church of England, Church of Ireland dioceses, Dioceses of the Scottish Episcopal Church, etc. Dropping the unnecessary prefix also spares us the constant "Catholic" vs "Roman Catholic" discussions. Surtsicna (talk) 11:08, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
• Agree. It is mostly clear enough in most instances I’m aware of. But my only little gripe would be if there is a distinction between i.e. a Catholic of similar diocese that also leans Anglican, Orthodox or Protestant (or whatever branch of Christianity there be). IMO, that would need a brief clarification at the lead. 2601AC47 (talk·contribs·my rights) Isn't a IP anon 18:07, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
• Agree: See my thoughts in a somewhat dated note on my user page. For cases requiring disambiguation, we should use a parenthetical. ~ Pbritti (talk) 23:45, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
• (Summoned by bot) Yes. If there is no disambiguation needed, because a page is already WP:PRECISE enough without it, then adding it just because it might not be in the future is unnecessary. Times where it is necessary can be handled on a case-by-case basis with a hatnote or disambiguator if needed. SmittenGalaxy | talk! 06:17, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
• Agree per the reasoning above; the term "Roman" is completely superfluous in most cases and may cause confusion as denoting the Latin Church (or the Roman Rite) rather than expressing a communion of churches (i.e., the Eastern Catholic Churches). We may consider drafting an essay or guidance piece to cite when removing superfluous "Roman" usage. ThaesOfereode (talk) 12:56, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
• No. AIUI the point here is that Anglican Diocese of Portsmouth and Roman Catholic Diocese of Portsmouth are fine (Diocese of Portsmouth is a WP:DAB page listing both), but if one of them has a unique name, then the preferred article title should be "Diocese of", and good luck to you if you're looking at search results and don't know which denomination that is. For example, there is no Roman Catholic Diocese of Oxford, but there is an Anglican Diocese of Oxford. (The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Birmingham includes the city of Oxford.) According to this, the preferred article title might be "Diocese of Oxford" and "Archdiocese of Birmingham"? And we wish you lots of luck if you're in Birmingham and didn't know that the "Archdiocese" is the Catholic one and the ordinary Diocese of Birmingham is the Anglican one. I'm inclined to go the other way: Maybe we should require all of them to be WP:PRECISE enough that the title "unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects". Adding "Anglican" or "Roman Catholic" to the front "distinguishes it from other subjects" very effectively. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:19, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

  "Archdiocese of Birmingham" already "unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects" because there is no other archdiocese of Birmingham besides the Roman Catholic one. That is WP:PRECISE. We already have short descriptions telling us which denomination any particular diocese is. As it stands now, when the reader types in "Archdiocese of Birmingham" (which is obviously what anyone familiar with it would type, rather than "Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Birmingham) Wikipedia suggests an article titled "Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Birmingham" with the short description "Catholic diocese in England". Obviously the page should be what the reader types in and then the short description would be provide further information (rather than repeat information). Surtsicna (talk) 20:47, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

RFC on merger between 'Misa de gallo' and 'Midnight mass'

Other than the Spanish name, there is no significant difference between Misa de Gallo and Midnight Mass. There is considerable overlap between both articles.

Please discuss the merger proposal in Talk:Midnight_Mass#Merger_Discussion. Itzcuauhtli11 (talk) 18:09, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

New article Theology of the Priesthood (Catholic Church)

Hi all,

I just created a new article that was in the list of recommendations. Theology of the Priesthood (Catholic Church).

Check it out and let me know what you think.

Peace, Thorn6130✝ (talk, ask questions, dispute) 23:10, 16 February 2025 (UTC)

Extra Eyes on Pope Francis Please

H.H. is currently hospitalized with a "complex polymicrobial infection." The Vatican has just announced that in addition to the aforementioned medical condition, he now has pneumonia in both lungs. Not trying to be alarmist, and it's entirely possible that this will blow over. That said, it never hurts to lean forward a bit. The page is indefinitely semi-protected but a few more editors adding it to their watchlist won't hurt. Thanks... -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:31, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

watchlisted. Hail Mary... ... sawyer * any/all * talk 01:10, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

It's been on mine but I'll make a point of showing the flag a bit. If the worst does come, a 1RR might be worth considering? ~ Pbritti (talk) 01:17, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

I would support that. Clearly a page that would warrant that if it came to be. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:26, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Except in subject areas specifically authorized either by ARBCOM or the community, editing restrictions and page protections are not imposed preemptively. So we can cross that bridge if/when necessary. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:59, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

WikiProject Catholicism Discord server

For greater collaboration: https://discord.gg/arYDYSnB ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 23:47, 18 February 2025 (UTC)