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User:Eyer justified lowercasing a number of titles (minister, prime minister, secretary of state) with the argument, "Each of these is modifies by an adjective (Iceland’s or U.S.)". This isn't 100% true (cf. the first example), but it's not the right criterion anyway. Take a closer look at MOS:JOBTITLES; the criterion is whether a title is used generically to refer to an office, or referring to a specific title. "Minister of Education, Science and Culture and of Nordic Co-operation" is a very specific job title (most countries don't have a minister of Nordic co-operation) more like "King of France and Navarre" than "a king of France". "U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo" is exactly parallel to "U.S. President Carter", which no one would think of lowercasing. Q·L·1968☿23:22, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
According to MOS:JOBTITLES, modified titles should be lowercase. I would absolutely say "U.S. president Carter"... or rewrite it to "President Carter". —Eyer (he/him) If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message. 21:30, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eyer: I really think you're misinterpreting "modified" in such situations. It doesn't mean that the presence of absolutely any adjective requires you to use all lowercases. I guarantee that "U.S. president Carter" is not how it's normally done in English. Q·L·1968☿17:49, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@QuartierLatin1968: The key is whether the title is preceded by a modifier (including a definite or indefinite article). "U.S." is a modifier. The example from MOS:JOBTITLES is "Mao met with US president Richard Nixon in 1972." I hope this helps. —Eyer (he/him) If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message. 18:52, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eyer: I believe you are overinterpreting the word "modified". I do know what a modifier is in linguistics (you're right about that), but that's not what the examples in MOS:JOBTITLES are trying to get at. They're trying to show if an expression is rephrased so that is not the exact title but a paraphrase, then it's generic and doesn't have to be uppercase. "King of France and Navarre" is an exact and specific title, in the same way that Minister of Education, Science and Culture and of Nordic Co-operation or United States Secretary of State (its title in the Wikipedia page, capitals in the original) are. By your logic, United States Secretary of State needs to be moved to United States secretary of state because there is a modifier. Q·L·1968☿19:31, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
