Talk:History of Abkhazia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the History of Abkhazia article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

History High‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Georgia (country) Mid‑importance

	Georgia (country) portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (country), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Georgia and Georgians on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Georgia (country)Wikipedia:WikiProject Georgia (country)Template:WikiProject Georgia (country)Georgia (country)
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Abkhazia Mid‑importance

	Abkhazia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Abkhazia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Abkhazia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AbkhaziaWikipedia:WikiProject AbkhaziaTemplate:WikiProject AbkhaziaAbkhazia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Limited recognition Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Limited recognition, a WikiProject dedicated to improving the coverage of entities with limited recognition on Wikipedia by contributing to articles relating to unrecognized states and separatist movements. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join our WikiProject by signing your name at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.Limited recognitionWikipedia:WikiProject Limited recognitionTemplate:WikiProject Limited recognitionLimited recognition
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

European history

	Europe portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Russian rule

"The Russian annexation of two major Georgian kingdoms between 1801 and 1810 facilitated the empire’s expansion far into the Caucasus region." Not true, Russian Wikipedia written that Sefer Bey (Georgi) appealed to the Russian government for protection. Please see http://www.abkhaziagov.org/ru/state/history/ssr.php full history. --109.73.15.4 (talk) 13:55, 30 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shevardnadze

“

Shevardnadze inherited a government dominated by hardline Georgian nationalists, and although he was not an ethnic nationalist, he did little to avoid being seen as supporting the government figures and powerful coup leaders who were.

”

Rather than removing this passage altogether maybe we could extract the facts from it while removing pov claims. There are two facts in this sentence - that Shevardnadze inherited Gamsakhurdia's government and that it was dominated by nationalists. Do you think they are true or not? Alæxis_¿question? 18:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, this is not true. Shevardnadze did not inherit Gamsakhurdia's government. Gamsakhurdia and his government had fled long before Shevardnadze arrived in Georgia. In fact at that time government was made up of those who had ousted Gamsakhurdia: Tengiz Sigua, Jaba Ioseliani and Tengiz Kitovani. Neither of these can be described as nationalist. Tamokk 06:09, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I did not know whether it was true or not and that's why I asked this question. Alæxis_¿question? 06:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but it would be nice to see that from some book or document. IMHO its a bold statement which needs support. Taton80 20:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Greeks in Abkazhia during Soviet rule

I have made some changes. First, without prejudice to various points of view, it was in error for the article to state that Stalin introduced Greeks into the area. In fact in 1949 Stalin deported the Greeks, which were a large minority populaton deep into central asia where many died. The survivors did return about 10 years later. In 1992 (specifically October) the Georgian forces destroyed many Greek institutions.

Again I do not wish to wade into any issues on the causes of the war or any of the groups rights etc. I just wish to note the history of the Greeks there in modern times accurately. I do not know how to insert notes, citations, so I will plac them here in hopes a fair minded editor will read them and insert them if needed while keeping the spirit of my edits. see text on Greeks in Abkhazia in following:

On the Soviets' 1930's-49 deportation of several hundred thousand Black Sea Greeks to central Asia generally as well as about 100,000 siezed from the caucus coast including Abhkazia in one night in 1949: http://www.karalahana.com/english/pontians.htm

other notes:

http://www.unpo.org/article.php?id=715 http://www.refugeesinternational.org/content/article/detail/5674 http://books.google.com/books?id=MNOHKnF1nl8C&pg=PA280&lpg=PA280&dq=greeks+of+abkhazia&source=web&ots=bXkskc3-Xj&sig=D9EmJE_WSKJnPQd8ji0oTYHKafg#PPA280,M1 (note #10)72.75.6.102 04:10, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Leon to Leo?

What was the reason of this change? Is it how he is called in English-language sources? Alæxis_¿question? 17:56, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in History of Abkhazia

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of History of Abkhazia's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "censuses":

From Sukhumi: Population censuses in Abkhazia: 1886, 1926, 1939, 1959, 1970, 1979, 1989, 2003 (in Russian)
From Abkhazia: Population censuses in Abkhazia: 1886, 1926, 1939, 1959, 1970, 1979, 1989, 2003 (in Russian) Georgian and Mingrelian figures have been conflated, as most of the "Georgians" were ethnically Mingrelian.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:04, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

About russuian regular troops

Regular Russian forces also reportedly sided with the secessionsts. That can't be true. You shame! From more then 4000 fighters for freedom of Abkhazia who were killed by Georgian governmen troops, more than 3000 were abkhazias. Russians gave weapon to Georgia. The truth is very very far from this article about Georgian-Abkhazian war. Georgia defeated and some nacionalists are shaming of that so they try to lie to the world as hard as they can. Sorry for my terrble english but i think that this artical doesn't shows the real history of Abkhazia. What means "Bichvinta"? What means "Sukhumi"? Those names in georgian even do not have the translation. "Bichvinta" is greece form of "Pitsunda" (today it is also Pitsunda"). In Abkhazia 99% of names of villages and towns are abkhazian (not georgian). For example: Alahadzy (not alahadze), Gechripsh, Mysra, Aatsy, Abgarhuk, Pskhu, Eshera, Khuap, Tkuarchal, Gal (not Gali, that town was based by abkhazian Tlabgan Ketsba)... the list is too big so i will not go on. Respectfully! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.182.15.196 (talk) 04:12, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Demographics of Abkhazia from antiquity

I really enjoyed that article mentions different tribes and clans that Resided in Abkhazia in early history. However there are few clans that it has been missing and I think it would be worth the trouble if we added all of them into Abkhazia in antiquity section. Identities and names of some of those clans are included in already cited source in the section. I was thinking about adding some info about clans of Moschi/Mosch, Sanigs, and Misimians. Historically these clans have played a huge role into consolidation of Abkhazian population into single unit and took a great tall in Abkhazia's struggle to break free from Byzantine rule, especially Misimians. Moschi clan is pressumed to have been related to Moeschi/Meschi clans of southern Georgia. They have been mentioned by Strabon and by Plini. Origins of Sanigs is disputed. Some associate them with Sadz tribes of Adyghe-Abkhazian origin who later moved in northern Caucasus and created sub-ethnic unit among Circassians. Today they are known as Abazas. Others relate Sanigs to Svan people and include them in Zan ethno-linguistic group. It is generally speculated because of their self designated name of Sanigs/Zanigs and also by some evidences of their material culture that is very much related to that of Misimians and Soanes. Last but not least is Misimian clan which is widely considered to have been sub-ethnic unit of Svan/Soane clans, who together belong into larger Zan Ethno-linguistic super Family. Term Misimian is argued to have derived from Svan language (misimi/misoani which means I am Svan). Term Misimi tends to disappear and reappear in various ethnographic records, being replaced and included into larger ethno family of Soane. It is worth to further stress on the fact that Misimians played enormous role in struggle against Byzantine rule. During which, they were almost completely wiped out. The term Misimian tends to stop existing in 11th century, since which it is replaced and these clans are simply regarded as Soanes or Svans. Misimians and Sanigs lived side by side, constituting and extending beyond the highlands of Sokhumi/Dioskuria. Just like Misimians, Sanigs are often regarded simply as Soanes as well. According to Strabo's ethnographic description of Abkhazia he says: "Near them [Phtheiropagi] live the Soanes, not less dirty in their habits but superior perhaps to all the tribes in strength and courage. They are masters of the country around them, and occupy the heights of Caucasus above Dioscurias." Strabo unites Misimians, Sanigs, and Soanes all into single Umbrella name of Soane. It is also worth to mention that Sokhumi, areas and highlands of which was occupied by Porto-Soane population, is derived from Svan language and means "hornbeam trees." The evidence of Soans and their significant population in this area is also reinforced by dynasty houses of Shavliani and Marshani who both have Svan origins. It is impossible for such dynasties to have simply poped out of nowhere, unless there was also significant Soan or Proto-Soan population from who they gained their support. Unfortunately I do not have time right now to work on the possible paragraph that could be included and provide deeper knowledge on Abkhazia in antique period. I will work on it and post the suggested paragraph in this section of the talk. Either way, I would like to apeal to wikipedia community to post what they think about my suggestion or maybe even suggest a possible paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.121.14.144 (talk) 18:45, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Medieval Abkhazia

Is said: The Principality of Abkhazia, whereas it acted as an independent state, was officially a vassal of the Kingdom of Imereti, following a treaty signed in 1590 splitting Georgia into three nations.

Wasn't the treaty signed in 1490 as written in "Principality of Abkhazia" http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Principality_of_Abkhazia?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.118.147.34 (talk) 16:52, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've made the change. Alæxis_¿question? 10:04, 8 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

New additions

While some of newly added material is not encyclopaedic, there are facts that seem true and would add value to the article. Unfortunately the only provided source is a link to a blog, so it's impossible to verify this information. Any suggestions re what to do with the added text? Maybe someone could add sources to parts of it? Alæxis_¿question? 19:07, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed a part that was (in addition to being unreferenced) was not NPOV and was written not in encyclopaedic style. I still urge more knowledgeable editors to add sources to the paragraph I've left in the article. Alæxis_¿question? 21:03, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Roman Colchis

I've added some info from a book Edge of Empires: A History of Georgia by Donald Rayfield, however no primary sources are provided there for the sack of coastal towns in 50 AD and no exact citation is given for Josephus's estimate of Roman garrison. Could someone help with these sources? Alæxis_¿question? 09:13, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Russian takeover

This addition is from Hewitt who is clearly one-sided. I expressed doubt in the footnote. I have read enough nationalist historians not to believe either side. This seems to give a fuller account of the Russian takeover. What needs to be changed? Benjamin Trovato (talk) 02:13, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree with you regarding Hewitt and general history-writing on Abkhazia, but we should not insert our own opinions regarding the source in the text per Wikipedia guidelines. That was the reason of my reversion of your addition. --Kober^Talk 05:29, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On page 98 he says "those who wrote about the history of Abkhazia from an objective (i.e not pro-Georgian) standpoint", so I think nearly everyone would doubt his reliability. If we remove the comment about one-sidedness from the footnote can any of this be salvaged? It seems to be a slightly better account. Does any part of it seem false from either an "objective standpoint" or from a "pro-Georgian standpoint"? Benjamin Trovato (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct about the negative footnote. I did not recognize the problem. Thank you. I restored what I assume is objective without the footnote and will let someone else correct it if they want. Benjamin Trovato (talk) 23:57, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on History of Abkhazia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:10, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on History of Abkhazia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.geocities.com/komblege/thracian.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061210114030/http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/ussr1924.html to http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/ussr1924.html
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110606092930/http://www.osce.org/documents/html/pdftohtml/4049_en.pdf.html to http://www.osce.org/documents/html/pdftohtml/4049_en.pdf.html
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061005095300/http://www.unpo.org/member_profile.php?id=3 to http://www.unpo.org/member_profile.php?id=3

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:05, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Education section

@Lecturer2000: Thank you for adding information about the education in Abkhazia. Can you please add the sources you used to write it either to the article itself or here if you need assistance with formatting?

Also I think that it might be better to create a separate article from this information considering that this article is organised by periods rather than by topics. Alaexis_¿question? 18:05, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]