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2023 Talk

The Magical Moment nominated for deletion

The article, The Magical Moment, has been nominated for deletion. You may comment on the nomination at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Magical Moment Donald Albury 22:25, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Please stop

I notice you are adding at high speed utterly ridiculous "assessments" to projects, resulting in e.g. Cyclo-cross, Wout Van Aert, and even Tadej Pogacar being of "Low importance" to the cycling project??? Assessments have very little value anyway, but if you add them, at least make an effort to get it somewhat right. If you don't know enough about the subject, please just don't assess importance at all. Fram (talk) 15:32, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

@Fram: - Thanks for the feedback. Will not do these...I've lost touch with cycling since my 1970s-1990s involvement in the sport (like a past life). JoeNMLC (talk) 17:25, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Gary Seligson and West Orange

This edit to the article for Gary Seligson makes the assertion that the article has been "Successfully de-orphaned!♦ Wikiproject Orphanage". This was accomplished by adding Seligson as a notable of West Orange, New Jersey in this edit, which has an edit summary stating "add Gary Seligson, drummer and percussionist; copied content from Gary Seligson; see that page's history for attribution".

I reviewed all of the sources in the article for Seligson and I don't see that any of the eight references mention West Orange. Maybe I missed something, but if you had a source that made the connection, why did you not add the source to the West Orange article, as has been done for every single notable in that list. If you didn't have a source, why did you add it? De-orphaning articles is wonderful, but if you're just spreading unsourced content from one article to another, you're making things genuinely worse than before. In every case, find the source and add content to article with the source, as required by Wikipedia's verifiability policy, which says that "Even if you are sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it." No one should be dependent on reading an edit summary to direct them to a source that might -- or might not -- exist in some other article. Alansohn (talk) 18:59, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

@Alansohn: - Sorry for my mistake. I thought from past WP experiences that I was doing the right thing. Guess this article is one of those "perpetual orphans" or should it be AFD? Just wondering your opinion. JoeNMLC (talk) 19:15, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
JoeNMLC, I was thinking about AfD, but I will genuinely try to find sources to be added to the article for Seligson. Alansohn (talk) 21:02, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
@Alansohn: - fyi, after some more digging, I added a cite to Seligson article for Date-of-birth, linked from 1961 article, Births section. So then I removed the Orphan tag. Hope I did this correctly. JoeNMLC (talk) 20:22, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
The source you added from Alchetron appears to be a mirror of the Wikipedia article and the only source listed there is Wikipedia. I searched in Newspapers.com and had no luck. I will search further. Alansohn (talk) 20:35, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Removing your Deletion Proposal on Tiga guérisseur

Hello, I removed the tag on the page. First and mostly, the film seems notable (I added two sources from books but Googlebooks has quite a few other that could be also quoted). But also, the page had already been proposed for deletion in 2020. And, as you know, you can't do this twice. Best, — MY, OH, MY! 08:28, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

@Mushy Yank: - Thanks for finding sources. I admit I'm very un-skilled at finding, and have only added a few references here-and-there with Cite-Template help. So now I was able to De-orphan "Tiga guérisseur" article by adding into "2001" article along with the cite you provided. Thank you. JoeNMLC (talk) 11:36, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

May 2023

Information icon Please refrain from making test edits in Wikipedia pages, such as those you made to Veselin Jelušić, even if you intend to fix them later. Your edits have been reverted. If you would like to experiment again, please use your sandbox. Thank you. GiantSnowman 18:28, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: fyi - Koegathe Rabithome is one of the players that Veselin Jelušić coached. Also Koegathe Rabithome is the last remaining article at Category:Attempted de-orphan from March 2022. I'm at a loss how to de-orphan this one, as the person definitely is notable (international footballer), just that article needs more content. Even date-of-birth would help. Any idea of how article can be wikilinked? JoeNMLC (talk) 19:42, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
Articles need to be de-orphaned organically, not by shoving in a 'see also' section. As it stands, unless he meets GNG, Rabithome is likely to be non-notable. GiantSnowman 20:02, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
@GiantSnowman: - thanks for clarifying. So being an international player does not automatically make the person notable. Would it be Okay to tag with "Proposed deletion"? I just recently learned of PD as first step for possible removal. JoeNMLC (talk) 20:11, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
Certainly feel free - and if the PROD is contested, the next step is WP:AFD. GiantSnowman 19:29, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
@GiantSnowman: - Yes, I will think about doing that. However I'm still confused about adding References to an article's wikilink. Does this mean every wikilink in every article requires a reference? JoeNMLC (talk) 19:39, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
statements/sentences need reliable sources - not ever wikilink does. GiantSnowman 19:41, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
@GiantSnowman: - Today, for Koegathe Rabithome article I added the Proposed deletion tag. Perhaps an expert will be able to improve. JoeNMLC (talk) 16:25, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Many thanks! GiantSnowman 20:07, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: - On tonight's History channel there was a segment on Dorcas Reilly, chef and inventor. When I looked her up on Wikipedia, I see the article is nicely referenced. Even though the Rater tool suggests the article Class - Start, wondering if class C would be better? Only thing I can see missing a perhaps a photo. JoeNMLC (talk) 04:12, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

I think it's too short to be a C. GiantSnowman 18:19, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on 1972 in the United States

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page 1972 in the United States, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

  • A "missing periodical" error. References show this error when the name of the magazine or journal is not given. Please edit the article to add the name of the magazine/journal to the reference, or use a different citation template. (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 03:27, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Today I reported "false positive". JoeNMLC (talk) 20:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of House of God Church (Keith Dominion)

Hello JoeNMLC,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged House of God Church (Keith Dominion) for deletion, because it's a redirect from an article title to a namespace that's not for articles.

If you don't want House of God Church (Keith Dominion) to be deleted, you can contest this deletion, but don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks!

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

greyzxq talk 21:46, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of 2013 Puntland Democratic election

Hello JoeNMLC,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged 2013 Puntland Democratic election for deletion, because it's a redirect from an article title to a namespace that's not for articles.

If you don't want 2013 Puntland Democratic election to be deleted, you can contest this deletion, but don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks!

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

greyzxq talk 21:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

An automated process has detected that you recently added links to disambiguation pages.

List of neighbourhoods in Winnipeg
added a link pointing to Tuxedo, Winnipeg (Neighbourhood)
Tuxedo, Winnipeg
added a link pointing to Tuxedo, Winnipeg (Neighbourhood)

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:06, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done - cleanup to resolve. JoeNMLC (talk) 13:11, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Bianca Barreto moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Bianca Barreto. Unfortunately, it is not ready for publishing because it needs more sources to establish notability and your article is too short, please see WP:HOW to see how to write better pages. Please use the sandbox if you want to do any more test changes. Your article is now a draft where you can improve it undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Wafflesvarog (talk) 19:58, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

@Wafflesvarog: - This article was created by Heroeswithmetaphors 12:03, 7 June 2023‎. So I'm quite surprised to receive your notice when all I did was add several article improvements. Please do not include me in future messages like this. I do agree that moving this one to Draft is a good thing. In the past when I attempted moving a few articles to Draft, it was reverted. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 01:58, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Re: Hidden Valley Downs

...a page you prodded last Thursday, and which I decided to commit to my watchlist only because I might give saving this a shot through WP:Library/Newspapers.com. Listing two potential sources for your consideration, which may make this horsetrack satisfy WP:GNG along with the Sports Illustrated story already listed there. Anything extra, and I'll hopefully ping back soon. Wish me luck!

  • Morrow, Darrell (1966-11-01). "Gambling on Races Denied at Hidden Valley Downs". The Wichita Eagle. p. 1A. Retrieved 2023-07-11 – via Newspapers.com.
  • Dyar, Ken (1966-05-08). "Dream Realized: Hidden Valley Oasis Opens". The Wichita Eagle. p. 9A. Retrieved 2023-07-11 – via Newspapers.com.

--Slgrandson (How's my egg-throwing coleslaw?) 05:41, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

@Slgrandson: - For the above, I copy/paste to Hidden Valley Downs Talk page so it's available on topic. JoeNMLC (talk) 14:17, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Tagging pages for deletion

Hello, JoeNMLC,

Just a reminder that when you tag a page for any type of deletion (CSD, PROD, AFD/RFD/MFD/etc.), it's good practice to post a notification on the talk page of the page creator. Most editors do this by using Twinkle when they tag pages for deletion. Twinkle is a very useful editing tool that is used by most page patrollers and many administrators. It basically has all of the templates you might need so that you don't need to remember them or go search for them. I encourage you to try it out and see how it makes posting welcome messages or talk page warnings, reporting vandals, setting up an AFD discussion, so many editing tasks, much easier.

Just remember to set your Twinkle Preferences to "Notify page creator" and then any time you tag a page for deletion, Twinkle will post a notice on your behalf to the article creator. I'm sure if you created an article, you would want to know if it was headed towards deletion so it's considered a courtesy. It's especially important with PROD'd articles where an editor can set about to address any concerns you have about an article. Thank you for your contributions to the project! Liz Read! Talk! 20:02, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@Liz: - Thank you for this communication. A while ago, I did look at Twinkle tool & was somewhat overwhelmed by complexity. My major focus is de-orphaning very old de-orphan articles (5 to 15 years ago), and many page creators are long-gone (inactive) or deleted from Wikipedia. To notify them would be futile. But I do see the value to contact new/active editors. Question: On that Twinkle tool, is there an easy way to setup just the notify function & skip all the other stuff? For "Proposed deletion" and "Afd".
Some of those old articles are only 1 or 2 sentences, so I need to ask: is it allowed to post the Afd immediately without doing the Proposed deletion first? Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 20:32, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
Hey Joe! AfD and PROD are independent processes. You can definitely do one without doing the other one first. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:24, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Deprodding of Rajendra Pambhoi

I have removed the {{proposed deletion/dated}} tag from Rajendra Pambhoi, which you proposed for deletion. I replaced the dead ref. The article meets WP:NPOL. If you still think this article should be deleted, please do not add {{proposed deletion}} back to the page. Instead, feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks! -MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:54, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@MPGuy2824: - Thank you for letting me know. I do concur with the removal. And as I'm always learning something new, thanks for that DEPROD link, another useful tool if I ever need to do the Deprod process. At my sandbox subpage I have started a simple wikitable that helps me track mostly Orphan articles for PROD and AfD. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 16:56, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Show the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article

I've noticed your prod rationale Show the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article by using multiple sources that meet four criteria. The sources should be (1) reliable, (2) secondary, (3) independent of the subject, and (4) talk about the subject in some depth. I'm not sure I am interpreting this correctly but it seems to be requesting that anyone wishing to contest the proposed deletion add some sources to the article. This is not how PROD or deletion in general works. If you want to propose or nominate an article for deletion, you should search for these sources yourself WP:BEFORE initiating deletion. ~Kvng (talk) 03:50, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

@Kvng: - Yes, before doing the PROD message, I do (1) search for sources & not able to find any appropriate, (2) check History to verify not a prior PROD, (3) Setup the Proposed deletion message. If already a PROD & it was removed, then AfD next. Thanks for the feedback. Going forward, I will change that Concern/Reason to mention the unsuccessful sources search. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 12:50, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Mazsola és Tádé

Hello, Just letting you know I've removed the ProD tag from the page. The article is a stub but the subject seems rather notable. Best, -MY, OH MY! (mushy yank) 09:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@Mushy Yank: - Thank you for the improvements so this article can be kept on Wikipedia. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 14:44, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Invitation

Hello JoeNMLC!

  • The New Pages Patrol is currently struggling to keep up with the influx of new articles needing review. We could use a few extra hands to help.
  • We think that someone with your activity and experience is very likely to meet the guidelines for granting.
  • Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time, but it requires a strong understanding of Wikipedia’s CSD policy and notability guidelines.
  • Kindly read the tutorial before making your decision, and feel free to post on the project talk page with questions.
  • If patrolling new pages is something you'd be willing to help out with, please consider applying here.

Thank you for your consideration. We hope to see you around!

Sent by Zippybonzo using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) at 07:50, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Fan Girl (2020 film), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Project 8.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 10:32, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

If Y'all Weren't Here, I'd Be Crying Tour moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to If Y'all Weren't Here, I'd Be Crying Tour (2). Unfortunately, it is not ready for publishing because it has no sources and It has too little information to be encyclopedic.. Your article is now a draft where you can improve it undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:48, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: - Firstly, this is not my article. All I did was de-orphan like the other thousands of old articles I've been working on. Second, after reading this one, I would suggest (another editor familiar with the topic) merging this small content directly into the Post Malone article, at Tours section. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 20:11, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
I know it wasn't your article. The draftification thingy allows me to notify any or all of the editors who have touched the article. Also, there is another draft, Draft:If Y'all Weren't Here, I'd Be Crying Tour, which is more detailed, but needs updating. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:52, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Danchuwa- Bula Ward moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Danchuwa- Bula Ward. Unfortunately, it is not ready for publishing because it has no sources. Your article is now a draft where you can improve it undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Losipov (talk) 19:29, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Losipov: - FYI, I did not create this article, only did de-orphan and a few updates, so it may be an abandoned draft unless someone else chooses to improve. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 19:41, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
@JoeNMLC I understand. When I started the move process, it gave me the option of notifying other editors who contributed to the article. I thought it would be a good idea to do so, along with the creator. Apologies for the confusion. Losipov (talk) 19:46, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

IEEE Fellows

Hi, just a note on this move: IEEE Fellows are explicitly mentioned as notable in Wikipedia:NPROF as long as their fellowship can be confirmed, so a one source stub is probably fine in this case. Thanks, Schminnte (talk • contribs) 16:30, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
Excellent article on a technical subject. Well synthesized from the various peer-reviewed articles. Oaktree b (talk) 02:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
@Oaktree b - What is this for? Please clarify. I'm confused... JoeNMLC (talk) 19:35, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

PRODs

Hello, JoeNMLC,

I was just looking over articles that have been PROD'd, like Andriy Savenets, and noticed that you didn't post a notification on the talk page of the page creator. It also helps editors if, in your edit summry when you tag a page as a PROD, if you mention that you are "Proposing an article for deletion" or "PROD". If an article gets de-PROD'd, it's then easy to tell by looking at the page history that an article has been PROD'd before.

These practices are made easier if you use Twinkle when you are tagging a page for any type of deletion (CSD, PROD, AFD/MFD/RFD/CFD/etc.). Just make sure you have set your Twinkle Preferences to "Notify page creator" and then Twinkle will post these notices on your behalf and you don't need to take any additional steps. It really makes things easy so I encourage you to try Twinkle out. Twinkle has a lot of other great features that you'll discover including maintaining deletion logs for you, if you are interested in tracking how you are doing. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 16:57, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Liz, Firstly, for edit summary, I've been using ce, add Proposed deletion. Do you recommend using "Proposing an article for deletion" or "PROD" instead? Is it really that helpful? If Yes, I changeover to those exact words.
After looking at the Twinkle/doc, here are my 2-cents worth. Twinkle evaluation...
  • PROD (proposed deletion)
    • Instead, I have my own tracking at JoeNMLC/Article PROD and AfD. It helps me keep my sanity & is fairly new-just put together in May, 2023.
    • Majority of (orphan) articles that I nominate for deletion are very old-created many years ago, so user-notification is a BWOT in my opinion. Or when a defunct/inactive user is notified, does that trigger a message to people (if any) who have that person on their Watchlist?
  • XfD (deletion discussions)
    • Not sure if I would ever need to use these functions. Still learning about del. discussions & have only participated in a few so far.
  • Tag function
    • Using a notepad-plain text editor, I built my own tagging list; I like & am comfortable with it's speed and accuracy. Monthly, I do a search/replace of the date on each line.
For me, Twinkle has a great many features that may be helpful for people, just not for me. I would be afraid to use Twinkle lest I make mistrake(s)! Sorry for the length of this response. Thank you for taking the time to communicate. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 19:32, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Unsourced "sources"

Please engage on article talk at Tate (spirit) and read WP:RS. Commercial links that cite no sources, as well as blogs, are not usable sources on Wikipedia. Best wishes, - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 19:47, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Terminating deposit

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Terminating deposit, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

  • A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 20:51, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done - Added cite title (two articles), JoeNMLC (talk) 21:31, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Relevant references

Hi, hope you are doing well. I rollbacked two of your edits, one on El Dorado (Japanese band) and one on Mabel Martin Wyrick because the sources you added did not reference the actual topic of either article. For example, the reference on the El Dorado was about visual kei culture but, going through the article, there was no mention of the band as the actual topic. Similarly, Mabel Martin Wyrick's reference was the US Census for a place in Kentucky where some of her writing was based - it has nothing do with her as an author. I am going to continue looking for these kinds of issues and trying to find a better reference where possible or rolling them back where necessary.

Please be sure that the sources you are using as references are meeting the project's guidelines of being relevant, reliable, and verifiable. I understand your desire to get through the categories and backlogs but adding references to any topic mentioned in an article, rather than the article's topic itself, does not accomplish what the URA is all about. I'm happy to discuss this further but I really think we need to focus on quality, not speed. Kazamzam (talk) 16:56, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Furthermore, please be sure to update the date on the clean-up tags. For example, on the Mabel Martin Wyrick 'one source' tag, you left the date as September 2007 from the original unreferenced tag. This is a new tag so the date should be September 2023. Kazamzam (talk) 17:00, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
@Kazamzam - Thanks for the above feedback. I will definitely update those tag dates to be current. I just wish we had a massive group of editors (100 or more) to chop away at the backlog; I do understand why it's so large. Over at WP:Orphan I've reduced my involvement there (frustrated) because there is an automated bot tagging articles, plus Page curation, plus AWB that are actively tagging orphan articles vs. fixing. Lately I've found Query tool to be helpful, and have done a few Move to draft, PROD, AfD articles, so I do like the variety of things to help with. Sorry for the length of this response. Cheers, JoeNMLC (talk) 17:56, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
The lack of editors is frustrating - which is why we (or at least me) are very happy to have you. I appreciate you updating those tags. I know there is a lot that needs to be either rollbacked/reverted and I have started chipping away at it to find relevant sources but it is quite a tall order. If you could start working on that as well, I would appreciate it. I think we can still keep the progress that's been made in clearing out the oldest categories even if the progress is at a slower pace now. I think your point about using PROD and AfD is a good one - some articles don't meet the criteria and should be removed accordingly. I'm happy to strategize this with you further.
Sorry to hear about the frustrating changes at WP:Orphan. I actually just deorphaned an article; will try to give it more attention as it seems like a lot of these can be fixed relatively easily. Thanks, Kazamzam (talk) 18:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Reference relevance reminder

Hi again. I'm reaching out because I have noticed there are still issues with you referencing relevant sources for articles. For example, on the 2006 US Open – Men's doubles, you cited a 2012 press release from Emirates Airlines that did not mention anything from 2006 or doubles. This provides no meaningful information about the topic and does not back up the claims of the article in any way. Adding relevant, reliable, and verifiable references is the entire purpose of WP:URA; citations that do not meet these criteria are both unhelpful for the reader, who can't rely on the information in the article, and detrimental to the project, because other editors need to fix them and this, at least for me, has been quite time-consuming when I could be cleaning up other articles. Please let me know if you would like any help finding high-quality references - I am more than happy to help. Best, Kazamzam (talk) 13:47, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

@Kazamzam, I agree 100-percent, and now understand that just because an article's reference exists does not mean it is "on point" so to speak. In fact, last night I added another section to my Article cleanup page here. And placed Melpakkam article, and added a Talk discussion for the article. Yes, finding high-quality references is an issue. I've searched many places in Wikipedia & not able to find any kind of list that is helpful. So does that mean to use the PROD - AfD process for those old/short articles? Another example (many of them) are for "Villages in India" articles - difficult to find anything. A few times that I prod the articles, they were declined but not fixed. Thanks for taking the time to explain how referencing is not just a process of moving one cite into a second article. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 14:17, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
@Kazamzam, Thought to share that I did find a few links to India sources.
The Encyclopaedia Britannica website (here), although a short-list of cities does have a "Cite" button that makes a nice ref. to copy-paste to Wikipedia. Cheers! JoeNMLC (talk) 17:06, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
The small geography stubs can be very challenging. They typically cannot be deleted unless there's proof that the topic actually does not exist because almost all human habitations have notability under the project's notability guidelines for geographic features, hence why taking them to AfD is usually fruitless. Some things I have tried are making sure the spelling is correct, looking through old census records via Google Books (the census2011in website is not reliable, neither are a few of the most common search results because they don't meet reliability criteria; this will usually be flagged by the edit filter and generate an alert), trying to find something in another language, a news article, or a government source that can be added as an external link and then we can use the Inline template so at least there is something. It's very tricky! Those are definitely not the articles I would start with because they can be very thorny. The articles that I find easiest to cite are species or genus articles (you can find these using the biology filter) because they will usually have a few results in either Google Scholar or Google Books.
I definitely recommend reading through the topic-specific notability guidelines before sending an article to AfD to spare yourself the frustration. You can also check out the perennial sources list to determine if a source is likely to be useful. Kazamzam (talk) 17:24, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Two things: Although census2011.co.in is a janky-ass mirror site, the data is an exact copy of the 2011 Census of India. I used to use both in conjunction when I was doing more de-orphaning focused on Indian villages. I never found an instance where the data from census2011.co.in differed from the data on the official census website. I argue that it is suitable for purpose in the absence of anything better, since the official site no longer works, and the 2021 census has been delayed until at least 2024. I have had people argue that it is possible that I just never happened to come across a discrepancy, which, fine, there are thousands of records and I submit that the possibility exists, but what would be the point of replicating the entire census just to fuck around with the population numbers on a couple of random villages? It makes no sense. It would be so much work to do that for so little benefit, when the obvious purpose of the site is to passively make money by sticking ads on a ripped copy of the census.
Second thing is that GEOLAND actually only applies to legally-recognized places, which are usually villages and upward. Things like neighborhoods, vaguely-defined "populated places", and homesteads don't qualify, and with a properly-articulated deletion rationale, are generally not difficult to get rid of. Another option is a bold merge, if you can figure out a parent topic for them. Non-notable neighborhoods would go to the parent town, for example. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:42, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
@Kazamzam, @PMC, tonight I made an attempt to add new cite at article Leonel Navarrete (Mexican footballer). Wondering if worldfootball.net is a reliable source? When I looked at the site's legal page here, they appear to be an established business corporation (Germany). Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 00:38, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Evening! Based on what I could find from Google and the WP for football, that seems to be an acceptable source. There’s actually a specific template for it as well (I’m on mobile so I won’t try to link it and mess up this response). If you want to try cleaning up some footballer articles, that could be a very nice sweep. Usually you can find out if a website is reliable by googling something like Wikipedia, the name of the site, and ‘reliable source’ and checking out talk pages of various projects. if it’s a popular website, they have usually already done the legwork. Kazamzam (talk) 03:10, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
@Kazamzam - Yes, with Wikipedia search for worldfootball.net and it shows over 30,000 articles, so it should be a reliable source. Thanks, JoeNMLC (talk) 15:05, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

@Kazamzam, @PMC, At WP Reliable sources, Google maps is shown as "No consensus" for Reliable/Not reliable. So today, at Category:Orphaned articles from October 2013 I de-orphaned these two articles.

  • Kalattiyur, add cite - Google maps - Kalattiyur, Chikkarampalayam, Tamil Nadu, India
  • Bharariwal, add cite - Google maps - Bharariwal, Amritsar, Punjab, India
Step 1 = add article Google maps cite.
Step 2 = add article to district, Villages section with Google maps cite.
Step 3 = remove orphan tag.

Wondering if these updates are Okay? Thanks for helping me. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 23:38, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

I would strongly advise against citing Google Maps, it's really not reliable for determining whether something is a legally-recognized settlement that meets GEOLAND. census2011.co.in is honestly much better for that purpose, as it uses the census data. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:51, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
@PMC - Thanks, I've moved Google maps into Not reliable section here. JoeNMLC (talk) 00:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
Great, now be sure to go through and remove or rollback those changes as they are not reliable and should not be kept. Kazamzam (talk) 00:56, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
@Kazamzam - Yes, I was intending to do those rollbacks tomorrow morning, but now both are done tonight. I did searches at census2011.co.in as @PMC recommends. Both of those villages are not found at that census website, so does that mean it is Ok to do "Proposed deletion" next? JoeNMLC (talk) 01:22, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
Unfortunately these articles can be difficult to resolve as they are often riddled with issues and require some detective work. I would double check by searching the tehsil/taluk list (these are administrative divisions similar to a US county). Sometimes people use different transliterations of the native-language name than the census does. Usually it's pretty obvious - "Bhariwal" for "Bariwal" or "Bariwhal", that kind of thing.
Let's start with Kalattiyur. The article states that Karamadai is the taluk. However, Karamadai isn't a taluk, it's a town in Mettupalayam taluk, so that's not right. Looking at the list of villages in Mettupalayam, I don't see any places with similar names to Kalattiyur, so I don't think it's a census-recognized village. I searched Google books to see if there are any mentions of Kalattiyur, but found nothing, which supports that. My guess is that Kalattiyur is perhaps a neighborhood or area within another town or village ("village" in India is a legal designation so they can be quite large but still called villages). Google maps lists Chikkarampalayam (a large village in Mettupalayam taluk) as part of the address for Kalattiyur, so it could be part of Chikkarampalayam. I did a search for Kalattiyur+Chikkarampalayam and I came up with this election document where someone lists their address as being in "Kalattiyur, Chikkarampalayam village". I'm satisfied that it's not a legally-recognized place that meets GEOLAND, and that it's part of Chikkarampalayam, so I'm gonna redirect it. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:44, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
Bharariwal is a little clearer, since it's right in the article text - "the village was incorporated within the limits of Municipal Corporation of Amritsar in 1974 and the institution of Panchayat was abolished." This is no longer a legally-recognized separate place, it's basically a neighborhood of Amritsar. This book seems to bear that out, saying "Bharariwal is a part of Ward no 25" in Amritsar. So I'm going to again go ahead and redirect that, this time to Amritsar. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:00, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
@PMC - Double WOW! - Now I understand how & why those India locations are so "complex". And I should just skip them for both de-orphan and un-ref. tasks. THank you so much for fixing those two articles. Late last night, I did work on Andri Abubakar article and found reliable cite from worldfootball.net website. So I know these football articles are ones I can improve. For de-orphaning, I started mini-tracking wikitables here to keep me on-track. For some unknown reason, after about 6-weeks those 2014 articles are again showing (Query) many more orphan articles eligible to be un-tagged. I do like that un-tagging but at times it gets to be very boring (repeat, repeat, repeat) so I do like to skip onto something else for variety. Gota go now as today should be a "non-wikipedia" day for me. Best wishes, JoeNMLC (talk) 15:06, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
Honestly, if you can find them on the census list (and most of them you can) they're not that bad to deal with. My trick is usually to do all the ones in one district at once, either by creating a navbox for the district, like Template:Anand district, or where there's a huge number of villages, a "List of villages in Something district" article instead. It's just the edge cases that can be really wonky. And feel free to remove any unsourced "village cruft" from them rather than desperately trying to source it, it's usually unencyclopedic or irrelevant anyway. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:09, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
@PMC - Late yesterday, I found List of administrative divisions by country and saw in the India section what you describe above, interesting. And thanks for the navbox and list ideas. Sometime ago I recall one of those orphan categories with several hundred India towns & villages articles so, yes the navbox & list articles are helpful ways to group articles with a common District/Locality. For navbox, a fun thing I worked on (August 2022) was at {{Years in Romania}}, combining 4 templates into one. Just never thought of doing the same with articles. For lists, I see that at List of villages in Agder (Norway), it contains a comprehensive References section without needing to add a ref. on every line. The column setup looks clear & easy to follow. Wondering if those red links were deleted articles? History shows this list was from merger of two lists. Cheers, JoeNMLC (talk) 04:18, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

PetScan tool for orphan and unreferenced articles

Hi @Kazamzam and @PMC, Recently I ran the PetScan tool for Sept. 2023 orphan articles, making a list of footballers. Then, I searched at worldfootball.net reliable source website for these players, and found very many. I did this all in bunch, so very helpful. Next I will be adding the first cite to each article, then de-orphan by adding player to YYYY in association football article, mostly Births section. Lastly, removing the orphan tag. FYI, I did update my Petscan page here for the process. It's nice to work on this, taking a break from de-tagging some of those hundreds of orphan articles. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 19:13, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Verifiability

Hi again. I wanted to clarify why I reverted your edits on Troy Creek. The source you used was reliable but it did not verify any of the information in the article. At most it would have been acceptable for citing the coordinates in an infobox but it doesn't verify any of the content, i.e. about salinity and the water quality issues that are repeatedly mentioned in the article. Furthermore, sources like this involve a lot of digging around on the part of the person trying to affirm information about the topic. Especially for places that have common names, this can be an issue because there will be multiple hits. But again, the bigger issue is that the cited reference verifies almost nothing in the article. We see this a lot in other references - a passing mention of a topic in a book does not a reference make.

Sourcing some of these location stubs, as @PMC demonstrated above, can be quite a lot of work and requires experience in both finding and evaluating references for their overall fitness. I would recommend trying a different topic - movies and books are both good options - if you are having difficulty finding references for these small and obscure geographic features. There's almost 119,000 articles in need of sources - plenty to go around! Please let me know if you have any questions. Kazamzam (talk) 20:50, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Update, Hi @Kazamzam and @PMC,
  • ( 1 ) After due consideration (debating with myself), I understand that adding new references to articles is not for me. I can update those association football player biography articles (since I found those reliable sources), and un-tagging those not-orphan articles. Both are more than enough to keep me busy.
Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 14:15, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
Hi @JoeNMLC, thank you for your response.
1. I really do not want to discourage you from adding new references to articles - you clearly have a great passion for editing and the URA is very short on editors. What I'm suggesting is being a little bit slower and considering what references work and why they work. There are a lot of low-hanging fruit that can be easily sourced from existing articles, i.e. list of Algerian films, most of which have articles that can be used as sources for references for the list. For example, one of the first films listed in the Algerian films article is The Battle of Algiers, which has 49 references. As referencing becomes more intuitive, expanding to other topics will become very intuitive. If you'd like, we can work on referencing an article together.
2. The Wikipedia Library describes itself as a "place for active Wikipedia editors to gain access to the vital reliable sources that they need to do their work". There are still potential issues with citing primary sources but overall I think it's an excellent repository.
3. I think the excessive citations tag can be removed given that there are 34 individual counties to be referenced, each of which has sub-units. Personally, I would use the EC tag for when there are something like 10 citations on a specific sentence (unnecessary and disruptive of the prose of the article). Does that make sense? Yes it's a lot of citations but it's also a large article that needs a lot of citations. Best, Kazamzam (talk) 16:47, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
Hi @Kazamzam Thanks for your feedback. ( 2 above ) - For that list of Algerian films, I did add one reference at the last entry of "Award-winning Algerian films" section. When I checked the first one, The Battle of Algiers, I could not find a decent reference for Film, Director, or Awards. For film Rome plutôt que vous, nothing for film or director but there looks to be a good ref. for that film's award. So that is what I added. And you're right, that entire list needs more. Cheers, JoeNMLC (talk) 18:32, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

November Articles for creation backlog drive

Hello JoeNMLC:

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There is a backlog of over 1900 pages, so start reviewing drafts. We're looking forward to your help! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:24, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Orphan article

Hi Joe, hope you're doing well. I was wondering if you could help me de-orphan (un-orphan?) the article Daohugouthallus. It has a number of links but a lot of the articles where I think it is appropriate to include are not very fleshed out. It might be possible to include it on some lists but I'm hoping to make a more organic connection. If you have any suggestions, I would really appreciate it! Best, Kazamzam (talk) 14:33, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

@Kazamzam, Even though I'm not familiar with this topic, I made attempt to de-orphan Daohugouthallus article with wikilink at Ningcheng County article. Hope this helps. If not, perfectly okay to revert. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 15:03, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

November 2023

Information icon Hello. Your recent edit to Biella appears to have added the name of a non-notable entity to a list that normally includes only notable entries. In general, a person, organization or product added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. If you wish to create such an article, please first confirm that the subject qualifies for a separate, stand-alone article according to Wikipedia's notability guideline. Thank you. Denisarona (talk) 13:27, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

@Denisarona - Please explain as I made no edits to Biella article. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 14:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
The edit was on 5 October 2021. Regards Denisarona (talk) 08:40, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
It's pretty ridiculous to template someone with a "your recent edit" template for an edit that was over two years ago. On top of that, there was an article for that person at the time Joe made the edit, which you'd have seen if you'd bothered to check. It wasn't even deleted for notability reasons, but as a G5. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 09:52, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Review aggregator

Hi. You added a {{Further}} to Review aggregator that seems out of place, particularly the phrase "the former website" which would refer to a specific website previously mentioned. I'm curious what in your opinion justifies singling out Movie Review Intelligence there. Is there something about the context that makes it more notable than, say, Metacritic or Rotten Tomatoes? --95.99.94.82 (talk) 20:12, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@95.99.94.82 - Thanks for the feedback. Yes I agree, so I removed that "Further" and replaced with a sentence giving Movie Review Intelligence as an aggregator example. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 20:37, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

New pages patrol January 2024 Backlog drive

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