Talk:Kingdom of Dardania

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Lack of inline citation

Hello, I came across this article, and at first glance, there seem to be sufficient inline citations. Is there anyone that objects to me removing the banner? HouseBlaster (talk) 15:22, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dardania

We don’t agree with those terms or names that are written like they were old Greek or something else. Because we know that Bardyl is known as BardhYll in Albanian language thad means, Bardh(White) and Yll(Star). So we have to defend our history as Albanian 185.204.56.30 (talk) 23:02, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thracian substratum in eastern Dardania

Hi, User:Nishjan. The article provides sufficient sourced information about that issue as follows: The eastern parts of the region were at the Thraco-Illyrian contact zone. In archaeological research, Illyrian names are predominant in western Dardania (present-day Kosovo), while Thracian names are mostly found in eastern Dardania (present-day south-eastern Serbia). Thracian names are absent in western Dardania; some Illyrian names appear in the eastern parts. The correspondence of Illyrian names, including those of the ruling elite, in Dardania with those of the southern Illyrians suggests a "thracianization" of parts of Dardania. Do not delete the category Thracian tribes. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 08:15, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And where in all of this did you read anything related to a alleged Thracian ethnicity of the Dardanians? The category is completely unneeded and unrelated to the mentioned content and to the article itself. Nishjan (talk) 10:20, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How many reliable academic English sources insisting that the Dardanians were pure Thracian tribe do you need? Are 10 enough? Jingiby (talk) 10:24, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Dardanians are pure Thracians" is this some kind of a joke? Please read the concerned articles for a starter before making anymore unconstructive edits. Nishjan (talk) 10:27, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kosovo

much data about Kosovo seems to be fabricated and does not seem compatible with logic.

15:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)15:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\15:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)~~\\\\\\\ 43.242.178.146 (talk) 15:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Albanian name

After looking at the edits, one must really wonder, why is there Albanian pronunciation of the name of Kingdom of Dardania? Setxkbmap (talk) 21:40, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably because Dardania holds much historical and cultural importance to the Albanians as their ancestral population. Some Albanians still refer to Kosovo as Dardania and use a Dardanian regional identity. Botushali (talk) 00:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It holds cultural and historical importance to all of the nations that Dardania covered tho.

Check Vinča culture or Starčevo culture to see how one neutral article should be written. Setxkbmap (talk) 00:46, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why is every article that includes Albanian things not neutral to you? Vinča and Starčevo do not hold as much cultural importance to the modern Balkan populations as the Dardanians do, and even Dardania is not relevant to other modern Balkan populations aside from the Albanians. The Slavs migrated to the Balkans in the 5th-6th centuries CE, they have next to nothing to do with Dardania. Botushali (talk) 00:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not about the nation, it's just that i don't see any connection and reason to include any modern languages into this, other than English.

As far as migrations go, you do realize that people mix? It's weird, you should know, as much of northern Albania is of Slavic descent, i think something like 20-25%.

But ok, i don't care about this article, i just wanted to ask a question. Setxkbmap (talk) 00:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This isn’t a forum. You shouldn’t make baseless claims that a quarter of northern Albania is of Slavic descent, that’s ridiculously absurd. Botushali (talk) 01:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't make baseless claims, you can't implement those claims in the article itself, as we know, but genetics of all countries in the Balkans show mixture of populations, not only Albania, but Serbia, Greece, Bosnia, Romania etc.

Of course, that doesn't affect your ethnic affiliations, as haplogroups mean nothing to your identity, or the identity of whole nations. Setxkbmap (talk) 01:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but there’s a difference between admixture and direct descent. Botushali (talk) 07:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it depends on how you look at it. Y-DNA haplogroup does show direct descent, but again it's irrelevant, i don't really care about this topic Setxkbmap (talk) 07:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It must be reiterated again that Wikipedia isn't a forum, but since you raised the issue of Y-DNA haplogroups the current evidence does not support your assertion of Slavic patrilineages reaching 20-25% in the slightest. Among Geg-speaking Albanians as a whole, these branches (I2a-Y3120 + R1a-M417) constitute ~12% of patrilineages. In northernmost Albania (Malësia) this decreases to ~2%. This is strictly in relation to paternal Y-DNA haplogroups, not autosomal admixture. Lezhjani1444 (talk) 12:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, i've read data on Albanians wiki page.

I don't want to discuss this anymore, this has nothing to do with Albanians so there's no reason to discuss this here. Setxkbmap (talk) 12:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, in future please do not bring up claims such as "It's weird, you should know, as much of northern Albania is of Slavic descent, i think something like 20-25%." when it is not relevant. Lezhjani1444 (talk) 12:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was relevant to the discussion with Botushali, but it's irrelevant to Kingdom of Dardania. Setxkbmap (talk) 13:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where did this account come from? AlexBachmann (talk) 17:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably same dude that's been editing articles for 3 days now. Previous names should be Vaxja something, and account before that had Albanian name that he stole from Linkedin Setxkbmap (talk) 17:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know where to go. Arguments have been made by editors, that the theme is extremely present in Albanian society. They haven't been opposed, as other arguments have been brought up. AlexBachmann (talk) 22:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do not reply to me. I don't care about this. I do not think that just having a exremely present theme is enough to warrant a translation, but i will not try to push for a change as of now, and if i would, i would probably go for RfC as i know these editors here and even the smallest changes take 3 months because they wont accept any other opinion.

As of now, revert any changes made by new accounts, i couldn't care less Setxkbmap (talk) 22:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do not reply to me You started the discussion? But okay AlexBachmann (talk) 23:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I asked why it's here, i never reverted. I was reporting one of the socks and i've seen that he's been active here so i was like "wtf", and i asked.

Sorry if i sounded rude, i just don't care about this that much :D Setxkbmap (talk) 23:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, just do your thing. AlexBachmann (talk) 23:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(unindent) It doesn't work like that guys. We don't add modern names to the lede of antiquity articles because they are not relevant and not widely used by English language sources. It doesn't matter one bit if group X is "important" to group Y, or ancestry, or any of those things. Otherwise all antiquity articles would be a huge mess.These things are decided by wikipedia's naming policies, which state that If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single equivalent name in another language may be included in the lead sentence, usually in parentheses. For example, an article about a location in a non-English-speaking country typically includes the local-language equivalent and Do not include non-English equivalents in the text of the lead sentence for alternative names or for particularly lengthy names, as this clutters the lead sentence and impairs readability. Do not include non-English equivalents in the lead sentence just to show etymology.. This is generally rare, and certainly not the case here. The only relevant alternate name is the Latin one, because it is used in the ancient sources. But all others are irrelevant. Khirurg (talk) 00:02, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’d disagree to an extent. As you quoted above, If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single equivalent name in another language may be included in the lead sentence… A case could very well be made that the subject of the article is closely linked with Albanian in terms of how prevalent Dardania is in modern Albanian culture, although this isn’t so true in terms of written sources.

Nonetheless, I don’t think the guideline above is clear enough on what constitutes a valid reason for translation in a case such as this. I don’t think it’s an issue if the Albanian name is included, but I also do not think it’s that big of an issue if it is not included. I don’t really see why it should be removed, though. Botushali (talk) 07:30, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have a problem with this a bit, because same shit happens with North Macedonians. We can go and add Macedonian language to all Macedon articles (Macedonia, Alexander the Great etc) and it would just be so weird and it wouldn't contribute anything. Setxkbmap (talk) 08:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I thought you didn’t care about this topic? Anyways, Slavic Macedonians have nothing to do with Alexander the Great and ancient Macedon, that’s the difference here. Should probably stick to the topic at hand than make unreasonable parallels.

Pretty certain there’s a policy against swearing on the TP. You should strike that out. Botushali (talk) 10:06, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I get notified for every single comment made here, because i created a topic i guess.

Sorry about bad words, i will try not to use them anymore. Thanks for info! Setxkbmap (talk) 10:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]