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December 31

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Armed conflicts and attacks
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[Posted] New Year's Eve sexual assaults in Germany

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Article: New Year's Eve sexual assaults in Germany (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A mass sexual assault on women by up to 1,000 men of Arabic or North African appearance occurs during New Year's Eve celebrations in Germany. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Mass sexual assaults on women occur during New Year's Eve celebrations in Germany.
News source(s): Many in article
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Aftermath looks like it's going to be important, at least for Germany, but possibly also for the entire European Union. Banedon (talk) 11:34, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support widely reported news event and article seems well supported with reliable sources. Not sure about blurb though - it doesn't mention the location of the event, it's quite long and the gender of the attackers is redundant (women don't sexually assault women, it's obvious that men assaulted them) - have suggested an alt blurb. MurielMary (talk) 11:53, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Missed that the country isn't given. I've added that. Not so sure about ethnicity, but in the sources I'm seeing it's quite heavily emphasized. I don't mind alt blurb, though. Banedon (talk) 12:01, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with a preference for a variation of the alt blurb, we don't need to include the purported ethnicity of the assailants in the blurb, but the location of the event is paramount. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:56, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Current reportage seems quite confused and this may just be a moral panic. It's a week since New Year's Eve so we should wait to see whether anything comes of this or whether it just blows over. Andrew D. (talk) 12:28, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. What coverage I have seen on this seems to focus on current protests about it (example, BBC); if we post anything I'd be inclined towards mentioning this. GRAPPLE X 12:58, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose at this point. What I've heard from the news is that there were no serious physical injuries, deaths or mass protests. Having surrounded the women, the mob just tried to grope and undress them. Will reconsider in case of serious aftermath, but so far this looks more like a media hype. Brandmeistertalk 13:02, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Although I realize you're just trying to demonstrate the minimal impact of this event, I hope you realize how flippant and careless "just tried to grope and undress them" sounds, as if it was just an innocent act.--WaltCip (talk) 13:05, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of ITN, it is. Brandmeistertalk 13:09, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what you mean by "systemic ethnocentrism." Are you implying that it is inappropriate to expect that those from other cultures abstain from rape, mugging, and assault when in Europe? In any case, leaving out a fact that essentially every reliable source focuses on might seem to be an attempt to right great wrongs through censorship. Mamyles (talk) 15:52, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding of "systemic ethnocentrism" is the notion that some editors will insist that everything be labelled with an ethnicity/nationality as if it matters. This is a story of mass protests about sexual assault (and to a lesser extent, about police response to it); it is not a story about race/ethnicity/nationality. GRAPPLE X 15:57, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This story is so significant and widely reported because of the alleged ethnicity of assailants, given the recent history of migration in Europe. Of course it matters in this case. Mamyles (talk) 16:03, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Michael Brown shooting was posted on ITN and it was widely regarded to be a racial issue. Not once in the blurb was it mentioned that the shooter was Caucasian and the victim African-American. Why mention it here?--WaltCip (talk) 16:39, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Reliable sources all say something along the lines of the assailants having "a North African or Arabic appearance." Reliable sources do not say that they were asylum seekers. Mamyles (talk) 17:28, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, appears to be a case of mass hysteria, and a fuller understanding may merge in the coming days. At this point the narrative is rather confused and based on speculations (i.e. quoting 1 public official on ethnicity and extrapolating on it), and the ITN posting would just push the rumour-making further. --Soman (talk) 17:29, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mass hysteria? We have to see notability. Then delete articles about U.F.O. and Yeti as they are hoax and hysteria.Marvel Hero (talk) 17:42, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The article quality is currently very low.
  • The introduction talks about 4 cities, except Cologne the article does not describe what happened (e.g. how many victims) and what the reactions were on a per-city basis.
  • The article is contradicting itself and incorrect even on basic facts.
  • 8 asylum seekers detained and five men from ages 18 to 24 were arrested are not exactly matching.
  • Police confirmed that eight arrested suspects were all asylum seekers, who were known to authorities because of a history of pickpocketing. is pretty much the opposite of what the police is saying - latest information I am aware of is that there were no arrests so far, and the police has not made any statements on whether suspects are asylum seekers.
  • Media reactions and how they are discussed are an important part of the whole topic. The article does not properly discuss this controversy and the relationship to the migrant crisis. The only entry currently in Media is one opinion piece in the Huffington Post (not an RS), and the opinion piece also does not demand what the article claims (publishing CCTV footage would be unconstitutional by a large margin).
LoveToLondon (talk) 17:41, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There are many RS online. The editors must pick them. Marvel Hero (talk) 17:44, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, as of 18:00 Wednesday the German Wiki article doesn't mention arrests either. Sca (talk) 18:08, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Terrible. However, this doesn't reach the global levels of wide interests. Also, the sensationalism on this kind of violence would push away the "periodic table" blurb. We can nominate how many rapes occurred in other countries or worldwide. I'm astounded by so many supports due to article quality and the press's tremendous emphasis on this. George Ho (talk) 18:24, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Every one of your points is invalid here at ITN. Opposes should not be made simply because the events relate to a limited set of countries; Notability to post is based on the event, not what older event will fall off; This is a notable event, not a statistic; Article quality is already far beyond that required for ITN; and "the press's tremendous emphasis on this" is relevant to why this should be posted. Mamyles (talk) 19:24, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, the quality of the article is currently far below what is required for ITN posting. In addition to the problems I already listed above, I just noticed that the article also fails to explain that according to the police the sexual assaults were largely to distract people and use the resulting confusion for thievery. LoveToLondon (talk) 19:58, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We would post nothing here if every article needed to be perfect. As described in WP:ITN, the minimum is three well-formed paragraphs. This article vastly exceeds requirements. Your ways to improve the article, while valid and productive, belong on the article's talk page. Mamyles (talk) 21:36, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not perfect would not be a problem. But we are talking about an article that makes incorrect disparaging claims while omitting known essential information like why it happened. Instead of wasting your time here making incorrect claims like Article quality is already far beyond that required for ITN, you could start editing the article and bring the quality to a level good enough that it could be considered for ITN. LoveToLondon (talk) 22:33, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Stale, hysteria, what else. Notability is ignored. This is more than just news. Marvel Hero (talk) 01:39, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted alt blurb to better adhere with NPOV. Majority of opposing arguments are not convincing to me, article quality is fine for ITN, and there's enough support to post this, for however little it will be up on the main page. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 01:15, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've pulled it temporarily until the orange tags are resolved one way or another. Jehochman Talk 02:35, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close - At this point, even if the tags are fixed in time, it's going to be pushed out by a more recent ITN story. We had our chance to post it.--WaltCip (talk) 12:51, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree re closure – No change Thurs. State interior minister, per BBC: "Three suspects have been identified ... but no arrests." If down the road there are arrests, charges, deportations or other measures, might be ITN material. Sca (talk) 15:17, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re-posting now that the tags have been resolved and the article is in better shape. There's nothing to immediately push this off the bottom but it won't be there for long. Stephen 22:52, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Stale. Sorry but have to ask, does an almost evenly split vote constitute consensus? Sca (talk) 23:09, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    (1) it's not seven days old (just) so it's not stale. (2) Consensus isn't based on counting votes. You should know that by now. To think otherwise is simply silly. The Rambling Man (talk) 23:17, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • (edit conflict) I feel that we have to look at this one a bit differently. The date of the event itself is stale, yes, but news only broke massively (it was relatively local beforehand for some reason) two or three days ago which is when it truly became "in the news" worldwide. Certain opposes don't hold any water in my opinion; quality concerns have been addressed and claiming "mass hysteria" breaches WP:OR. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 23:19, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Wayne Rogers

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Wayne Rogers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Very notable actor, starred on M.A.S.H. for a few years, also has a Golden Globe nomination and a star on the Walk of Fame. Aerospeed (Talk) 17:53, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] RD: Natalie Cole

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Natalie Cole (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Grammy-award winning, sold millions of records worldwide... The Rambling Man (talk) 17:52, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but good god, that's an awful photo in the infobox. ‑ Iridescent 17:58, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with article improvements - Inportance as her own (not just as the daughter of Nat King) is clear. Lots of unsourced paragraphs, and there's one section that is pure proseline. (And I would agree swapping the 2007 pic as the infobox image, its much more flattering). --MASEM (t) 18:27, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ITN, At the very least she should be listed as ITN "Recent deaths" frontpage especially since she died December 31, 2015 you have look at the previous year to see that she died now that it's 2016. also support swapping pic ▪◦▪≡SiREX≡Talk 18:37, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Really? As for "some serious work", you can always make edits in the article page. 217.38.140.9 (talk) 13:09, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, really. Of course I can always make edits to any page, I have an account and I'm an admin, but thanks for the reminder! The Rambling Man (talk) 13:20, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Or you could not bother and just stay here bossing other people around. Why is that article locked down. 217.38.140.9 (talk) 13:39, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all, I'm just suggesting to those who support it that they may like to help as right now it won't be posted. I don't know why the article is protected, probably due to vandalism. Feel free to log in and help, since you're so interested. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 13:45, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Fire at The Address Downtown Dubai

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Already nominated below --MASEM (t) 06:37, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: The Address Downtown Dubai (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The Address Downtown Dubai is severely damaged by fire. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Spectacular fire severely damages a very tall building. According to the authorities, there were no casualties, a fact that in itself is surprising. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 06:26, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] North American winter storm

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Late December 2015 North American storm complex (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Record and near-record flooding causes at least 20 deaths and widespread disruption in the US. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A winter storm produces tornadoes and record flooding across the Central United States, killing at least 39 people.
News source(s): Reuters Will lower world oil prices and raise gas prices
Credits:
 Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:07, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

28 dead, large evacuations, 18 million warned and in case we've forgotten this is still winter despite the cherry blossoms in the North on New Years so floodwaters are forecasted to turn icy (!). This gauge in my continent's biggest river has recorded the highest flood in 171+ years of measuring. It's supposed to take a winter's worth of melted snow and/or spring/summer thunderstorms to break records, to break flood records in winter is unheard of. The most tropical-like winter airmass in the East and South US which caused the tornados is now causing things like the 3rd highest flood in St. Louis in at least 230 years and the breaking of records a little downstream. This might be worth looking into. My city's December was 7° warmer than any on record (145 years), how cool is that? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 10:44, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

He's not opposing the nomination, he's just opposing the blurb. Banedon (talk) 10:17, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb is inherently US-centric because it's a US-centric event. Opposition to such a blurb is inherently opposing the event, unless LoveToLondon forgot to read the entire nomination and previous discussions on the topic explaining why they've been separated. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 16:05, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The current weird weather is inherently not US-centric. Storm Frank hitting the UK, and high temperatures at the North Pole. More than 100,000 people displaced in South America after the worst floodings in half a century. Severe flooding in Northern Australia. Unfortunately the article lacks any meteorological background (it focusses on the effects in the US), but my layman understanding is that at least the high temperatures at the North Pole and the storms in the US are actually confirmed to be part of the same weather event. LoveToLondon (talk) 17:08, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Except they're not all the same storm and it would be inappropriate to lump them all together. I don't know how many times I have to say this. Just because storms happen around the same time doesn't mean they're the same complex. Nominate whatever other event you want and have it judged on its own merits; having an article and blurb to cover "weird weather" across the globe is an absurd notion. This particular event far exceeds ITN notability standards with loss of life and disruption. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 17:19, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
RS says it is not an absurd notion to lump them all together: The north pole could be hotter than Chicago, Vienna or Istanbul on Wednesday due to the low pressure system that has brought tornados to Dallas and high winds and heavy rainfall to the UK. LoveToLondon (talk) 17:58, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Whoever wrote that sucks at reading surface weather analyses as the storm system that spawned the tornadoes in Texas moved to the Great Lakes and dissipated over Ontario yesterday. A completely separate system brought the heavy rains to the UK and surge of warm air to the arctic. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:41, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Another RS that contradicts your claims: A powerful winter cyclone — the same storm that led to two tornado outbreaks in the United States and disastrous river flooding — has driven the North Pole to the freezing point this week, 50 degrees above average for this time of year. LoveToLondon (talk) 18:58, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not to mention that The Guardian believes the storm in question "reach[ed] speeds of up to 230mph", which is laughably inaccurate—we'd all be in serious trouble if that were the case. It seems like that particular piece should be taken with multiple grains of salt.

As has already been pointed out, the North Pole warm surge is a non-story: on December 30, temperatures in that part of the Arctic Ocean briefly approached or reached 0C (the North Pole itself having probably remained a couple degrees below freezing). That's an enormous departure from normal, and worth further meteorological study, but the warm front retreated after just a couple hours and temperatures returned to normal by that night. A storm event involving a meter of snow, one of the most severe December tornado outbreaks in history, record-setting floods, and about 40 fatalities seems to far surpass "weird" weather in terms of both newsworthiness and permanent notability. There have been minor power outages and evacuations in the UK, but nothing that would ordinarily make ITN. Unfortunately, our coverage of Storm Frank (a distinct weather event by all serious accounts) is severely lacking. Instead of opposing this obviously important submission, why not propose your own alt blurb that encompasses the US natural disaster and the UK weather, without giving undue weight to the latter? It doesn't particularly matter how closely the North American and European storm systems are related (and sources do differ drastically on that, regardless of our confirmation biases); one component of this storm sequence has killed dozens of people and broken many hydrological and meteorological records. That it happened to occur in the US instead of a sexier nation is not of concern. – Juliancolton | Talk 19:29, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyclonebiskit - I can't explain it, but the blurb feels like it's written by a US editor for a US audience, while the alt blurb does not. That's why I say the blurb is US-centric, and support alt blurb. Banedon (talk) 03:38, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The alt blurb was my addition as the initial nomination was too focused on a single aspect of the overall storm. I've been working under the assumption that the alt blurb is the focus here as it's the more comprehensive of the two. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 03:44, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think that neatly explains why the blurb is US-centric. Banedon (talk) 03:48, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please do no suggest that an oppose opinion is a complaint. And please note I didn't say it was related to a single country, but about the news coverage not being world wide. L.tak (talk) 21:05, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So 40+ deaths, millions of lives disrupted, thousands of homes damaged or destroyed in a major country is not notable. Got it. I'll keep that in mind for the future. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 21:10, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry if I suggested that (did I?). But my problem is the news coverage outside North America that is scarce... There are a lot of cynical news-reporting facts that make the number of deaths not the most important factor (a plane crash in the US killing 20 would create sufficient international news for an ITN item I guess. L.tak (talk) 21:18, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's how your comments have sounded to me, but my apologies if I'm accidentally twisting your words (and for the unwarranted sass). Regardless, each event is taken on its own merits, so plane crashes and natural disasters are not compared. This is the deadliest and most disruptive natural disaster of 2015 in the United States. Nominations are not just judged by how frequently they're circulated in the news, as if that were the case we'd be flooded with celebrity news and other pointless drivel from Hollywood. It's the large loss of life, significant damage, and millions of lives disrupted that this storm notable and worthy of ITN. As brought up by the nominator, at least 18 million people have been under flood warnings . We've posted events that get maybe a day or two of global coverage before they're forgotten, but kept them because of their local notability. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 21:32, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The US are one of nearly 200 countries in the world with less than 5% of the world's population, and even in the US your claim deadliest natural disaster of 2015 in the United States is either untrue or only barely true. LoveToLondon (talk)
Fourteen of those deaths were in Mexico, thus giving a US total of 33 fatalities from that event. Latest tally for the nominated storm is 46. Reading helps. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 21:51, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this isn't "an American thing". The world is a little screwy right now. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:48, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • The world has been screwy for decades, what of it? You're opposing a major disaster in the United States that has killed 40+ people, left thousands of homes damaged or destroyed, and disrupted the lives of tens of millions of people simply because "the world is a little screwy"? Would you be opposing the nomination if 40+ people died in the UK instead of the US but everything else remained the same? I highly doubt you'd be so inclined to state "this isn't just a British thing". Sorry the UK floods don't meet ITN standards on their own, but to blatantly go against a nomination of a clearly notable event to add various events across the world simply because they're also weather-related is bordering on being purely disruptive (and this remark pertains to all of the editors from the UK making these types of comments). Do we mesh together various terrorist attacks that occur within a week of each other? No. Do we lump together people who die at the same time? No. If you're not content with it, do as you always say: nominate another item that pertains to the subject because that's how ITN/C works. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:04, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, the world has been unpredictable for some time. Sca (talk) 16:48, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Actually, I nominated the US storms a while ago, if you care to look, and in the meantime it's become obvious that we need a more holistic answer to this unusual weather, rather than just focus on America. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:18, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • I know others have complained that lumping these different storms (outside the US) into one article seems improper, but realistically while they may not be all connected outside the common result of the current El Nino, the clustering around these two weeks is what is making all such odd weather notable. TRM is correct that commenting only on the floods in the US while ignoring the flooding in South America (where last I read 6 were killed and at least 150,000 displaced) is poor form. I think it is going to be remembers as the storms around this two week holiday period and that's how we should create the target article, not just the El Nino one, that links in any of the specific unique storm articles that we already have. --MASEM (t) 20:28, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • (edit conflict) Except that the events are easy to define on their own: they're separate storm systems. It's pretty simple. The one being nominated here is the most destructive and fatal of the lot and thus has greater focus. A buoy ~170 miles from the North Pole briefly going above freezing and heavy rain in the UK from a storm upstream from the one in this nomination don't warrant an overhaul to be more inclusive. They're vastly less notable events.

          @Masem: Then nominate the flooding in South America for a blurb. It's an almost entirely unrelated event that happened at a similar time, thus it does not get included within the same nomination. That's like lumping two unrelated, non-coordinated terrorist attack in Yemen from Al Qaeda and one in Europe from ISIS into a single blurb for the sole reason that they're terrorist attacks. As for the clustering, that's a normal occurrence that can happen in any year. Conditions became favorable for such events and multiple systems developed. There's only so much I can do as one person, and my focus is on this particular event. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:34, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

          • Following what we would do for, say, similar events in sports that happen at the same time (like, for example, I believe a NASCAR finale ends on the same day or nearby with an F1 event) by combining the blurbs so that one type of topic doesn't dominate the ITN. It may be different storm systems, but they are all related to weather and should not be treated separately for ITN posting. --MASEM (t) 21:10, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
            • I see no reason why the SA floods and this storm system can't be listed separately in our already outdated ticker. The bottom two stories are from December 20 and 21. There's more than enough space for some new stories at the moment and having both up would flush out some of the stale stories. I've yet to see sporting events combined (lest we forget the horse race debacle from not to long ago) in such a manner—I remember the last NASCAR blurb being kept on its own—but it's also quite likely that I simply just missed when it happened. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 21:18, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
              • If memory serves, we merge football blurbs frequently. It's not a big deal and helps provide a more eclectic view of the world rather than just focusing on a single entity when the subject is global rather than parochial. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:20, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Crazy weather right now in many countries, no idea why we'd just focus only on the United States. Redverton (talk) 22:39, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Because that's the location this particular storm system pertains to. This one is the deadliest and arguably the most disruptive of the recent storms across the globe. Opposing on the basis on not relating to other countries is contrary to how ITN operates. Feel free to create articles on other events and nominate them if you feel so inclined. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 22:46, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Stop focusing on the US. Our systemic bias is showing.--WaltCip (talk) 03:00, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Great, based on that logic I can stop nominating items that deal only with the U.S. Oh wait, that's counter to the "please do not's" at the top of this page. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:02, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • It is perfectly valid and logical to dispute the construction of a blurb for meteorological occurrences that have worldwide impact, as stated above eloquently by TRM.--WaltCip (talk) 03:07, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • And your anti-US bias is showing, thus we've reached an impasse. Judge the event on its own merits instead of shoving in other partially related events (UK flooding), or almost entirely unrelated ones (SA flooding). The US-bias is long gone on ITN/C and has been replaced with an anti-US bias. It's utterly disgraceful that people are completely overlooking the large loss of life and disruption simply because this is a US topic. I don't know how many freaking times this can be said, but just because one storm happens around the same time as another, or stem from the same long-term, large scale phenomenons, doesn't mean they're intrinsically linked. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 03:15, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I disagree with this; the concerns given by editors like WaltCip or TRM are that while the US has been probably hit the hardest, the overall impact of all these separate storms in a short time period across the Western hemisphere means that we should construct a blurb/target that reflects there's multiple systems happening at once instead of just isolating the US system. --MASEM (t) 03:21, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • So just because they happen in the same period of time, otherwise non-ITN worthy events get to be shoved into a single blurb for the sake of avoiding a bias that we no longer have. Let's see..."Multiple storm systems since early December cause widespread flooding across the United Kingdom and Ireland while a severe winter storm claims at least 45 lives in the United States all the while another storm system triggers severe flooding in Paraguay; furthermore, surge of warm air brings temperature at the North Pole close to or above freezing." That's the gist of what's being attempted for a single blurb after the past few days. Oh yeah, can't forget Tropical Depression Nine-C and Severe Tropical Cyclone Ula because these two storms also happened at the same time. The only one that could be shoved into the same blurb is the UK & Ireland flooding which has been ongoing for almost a month and resulted from multiple systems. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 03:30, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
          • Clearly with at least 3 "separate" events (1 being the combined US storms consisting of the two tornado storms and the current ongoing flooding; the second being South America, the third being the UK flooding) we can't force full descriptions of each into a single blurb, but it would also be inappropriate to list all three as separate blurbs. And to only include one of these (the US) that would be the seeming bias I mentioned. Instead, something like "Widespread storm systems across North and South America and Western Europe in late December 2015 attributed to the ongoing El Nino event lead to tornadoes and flooding, causing dozens of fatalities and millions of displaced persons" would capture the concept, leaving the only issue of where a good summary article would be. 2014–16 El Niño event would seem to be the one, but there's nothing there. (I would think that we would have a chronological month-by-month of major metrologicial events with links to the very specific events). --MASEM (t) 03:52, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
            • If you want to push for such a large, unwieldy blurb for the sole purpose of countering a no longer existent bias then by all means keep on doing so. In any other situation, the UK flooding would be ignored (as everyone seemingly has for the past month despite it being severe at the start of December) and the Paraguay floods would be a borderline event due to "relatively little loss of life". I cannot, in good faith, contribute to an article that haphazardly links various meteorological disasters to an El Niño event and refuse to do so. It's not encyclopedic and just piggybacks off the media hype sensationalizing the ongoing El Niño. Much the same as global warming/climate change, you can't definitively link any single event to an El Niño. Yes it makes conditions more readily present for particular weather patterns, but all types of weather can happen with or without an El Niño present. To avoid breaching WP:OR, particularly WP:SYNTH, you'd have to list every single weather event otherwise you create a claim that's not scientifically supported. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 04:06, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
              • To stress the issue: to point out significant weather related deaths that occurred at the same time period as other storms elsewhere in the world that had similar destructive nature though perhaps with far lower death tolls, and which may have the same connection to the long-term El Nino event, we create a bad bias at ITN, and to post all different events as separate blurbs would drown ITN. At minimum, for example, the deaths in South America due to flooding from excessive rain are just as important to the deaths in the US from both tornadoes and flooding happening in the same period. To ignore those SA deaths while highlighting the US ones is really bad biasing. --MASEM (t) 18:43, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Very unusual situation for winter. Broaden it to include British flooding if necessary. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots14:34, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This (4,000-word) discussion proves the adage, "Everyone talks about the weather but no one does anything about it." Sca (talk) 17:12, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] The Address Downtown Dubai

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: The Address Downtown Dubai (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The Address Downtown Dubai (pictured), a supertall hotel, is severely damaged by fire. (Post)
News source(s): Sky News
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Major fire, receiving extensive coverage. Mjroots (talk) 18:33, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Major news story. Firebrace (talk) 18:37, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Probably Oppose. It is admittedly a very nice building, but it's ultimately still just a very nice commercial building, not a world landmark such as the Louvre or Taj Mahal, or even the Burj. The wording seems vague - severely damaged as in insurance will be pissed, or as in the building will be demolished? If it's the latter then I might be convinced to support simply because a building of that size being utterly destroyed is quite rare, but the one source provided seems to suggest that no one was killed, and that while it looked imposing, the building still stands. I don't think a nonlethal fire that causes damage to one or two commercial buildings quite meets the bar. - OldManNeptune 18:45, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Major news story. And probably the destruction of a major building in the country.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:47, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support – Partially because the current ticker is excessively stale (one story is approaching the two week mark). Pending on if progress on the multiple natural disasters across the globe is ever made to meet ITN standards. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:54, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait I agree with OldManNeptune, a barely notable building getting some fire damage is not sufficient for ITN. However, the event is still in progress, so the situation can quickly change. Mamyles (talk) 18:58, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. It's a slow news period and we could do with moving the box along, and this is undoubtedly "in the news", being the lead story on sources as diverse as thr BBC and Russia Today. ‑ Iridescent 18:59, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the dust settles. Brandmeistertalk 19:22, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
They have plenty of that already. Nergaal (talk) 20:05, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lean oppose; it appears that there were few injuries(worst AFAIK is a heart attack) and no deaths; though a spectacle for sure it still may be early to post this as the situation could change. The fire is currently only on the outside of the building and it's too early to say if it will need to be demolished. If the situation changes I would be willing to revise my views. 331dot (talk) 20:15, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless it's determined that it's something sinister, and/or if multiple fatalities occur and/or the building is entirely condemned. I doubt we'll see any of the previous, but I'm just speculating, of course. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:22, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it is on news channels worldwide and has dominated New Years' Eve coverage on multiple networks. Even in the absence of mass casualties, it's still the major story of the day. Buffaboy talk 21:10, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Buffaboy: We don't just post things that are big stories, as we are not a news ticker, (otherwise we would post the Kardashians and other tabloid news) we post notable stories (usually) that stand out in some way. If you feel this does, fair enough, but its being in the news isn't enough. 331dot (talk) 21:13, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] RD: Ian Murdock

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Article: Ian Murdock (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Register, Fortune
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Death was definitely unexpected, a key figure in the Open Source movement. yorkshiresky (talk) 15:50, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly oppose until sourcing improved, regardless of any arguments about notability. I can think of no circumstances in which either TechCrunch, The Register or Twitter would be considered acceptable sources for a claim as contentious as this. ‑ Iridescent 15:57, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unexpected deaths, where the death itself is the story, typically get blurbs, and I don't think one is warranted here. 331dot (talk) 20:17, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Iridescent's comments are important, plus not sure this is really getting the "in the news" coverage we'd expect to see. I grant you that our "regular audience" may be interested in this kind of tech-geek individual (no disrespect) but I don't think it's hitting the real headlines. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:24, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I was considering nominating this but realistically, most people even tech savvy ones knows what Debian is. He was important in the open-source software field but he is not of the caliber or importance of Linus T. or the like. Also, the circumstances of his death (at least, when I saw the story last night) leave me in doubt how much encyclopedic aspects we can say about this. --MASEM (t) 22:56, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] ASEAN Economic Community

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Article: Association of Southeast Asian Nations (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ASEAN launches its Economic Community, their trade bloc and common market of US$2.6 trillion with 622 million people. (Post)
News source(s): The Australian, The Straits Times, Bangkok Post, Nikkei Asian Review
Article needs updating
 61.245.25.6 (talk) 05:05, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The news seems quite highly notable, although a rationale from the nominator would be nice; exactly what's happening is unclear, the Australian ref is behind a paywall and the Straits Times article says the Asean Community is set to be formed, which in American English means it is only in the planning stages. The general ASEAN target article is a mess, and the economic community section should be moved into its own article. μηδείς (talk) 20:17, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Mηδείς. This seems interesting, but -as always with ASEAN- they are so preoccupied with big words that it is hard to find the real news-worthy facts. Was this a convention entering into force, or concluded. Or a mere announcement? And is this a framework convention that will lead to later implementation of real measures, or are real things changing? How? and when? I looked for details to update the article, but unfortunately couldn't get clear what was happening. L.tak (talk) 21:13, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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December 30

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Science and technology

[Posted] Four new chemical elements

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Articles: ununtrium (talk · history · tag) and ununoctium (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: IUPAC and IUPAP add the elements ununtrium, ununpentium, ununseptium and ununoctium to the periodic table. (Post)
Alternative blurb: IUPAC and IUPAP confirm the discoveries of the elements ununtrium, ununpentium, ununseptium and ununoctium.
Alternative blurb II: IUPAC and IUPAP confirm the discoveries of the chemical elements with atomic numbers 113, 115, 117 and 118.
News source(s): IUPAC press release, CBC, Toronto Star ScienceNews
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Smurrayinchester 10:33, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Doug Atkins

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Article: Doug Atkins (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT, ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Member of both the College Football Hall of Fame and the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Eight-time Pro Bowler. One of the first full-time defensive players in football, who "revolutionized" the position of defensive end. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:26, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Bill Cosby charged with sex crime

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Article: Bill Cosby (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Bill Cosby is charged with committing sex crime (Post)
News source(s): San Francisco Chronicle Los Angeles Times The Times (London)

Times of India
Credits:
Nominator's comments: A worldwide icon, notable in numerous fields, article may need updating Jusdafax 17:02, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly oppose. "Convicted" or "acquitted", fine, as and when it happens, but not this. "Innocent until proven guilty" is just as much a principle on Wikipedia as in the real world. ‑ Iridescent 17:04, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I submit that the fact of criminal charges being filed for the first time by a prosecutor is highly notable, coming as it does after years of controversy. And this will be in the news, and be huge, all over the globe. Jusdafax 17:11, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I ask you to strike your comment, which I regard as a personal attack. Jusdafax 17:17, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a personal attack, and he's right. You should know better. Resolute 17:36, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. George Ho (talk) 17:40, 30 December 2015
  • Oppose – Until outcome of trial, if there is one. (Or guilty plea.) Sca (talk) 17:41, 30 December 2015 (UTC) (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above: just being charged is not the point we post a crime at BLP (unless perhaps we're talking a major world leader); it will be the determination of guilt or innocence that will set the ITN point. --MASEM (t) 17:42, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I had closed this myself earlier, and just want to support CB's action. When the convicted murderer Oscar Pistorius was arrested for killing his girlfriend in a case where there was absolutely no doubt about the physical facts, we did not post it. This is an indictment based on an allegation of an act which is supposed to have occurred 11 years ago. BLP and UNDUE make posting this hype, not encyclopedic. μηδείς (talk) 17:51, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] North Pole will be above freezing point in winter

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Time to call Santa and interview the jolly old elf about global warming. Sca (talk) 14:36, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • This must be part of the same unusual weather pattern which has caused flooding in the UK and storms in the US (see below). If it's due to El Nino then it may last a while and so perhaps should be an Ongoing entry. Andrew D. (talk) 14:48, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The pattern appears to be different from the NA weather issues (they do connect it to the North Atlantic and the UK flooding, though that itself is not as unusual as what happened in the States) - though the weather pattern in NA may be feeding into that since it's warm air brought up by El Nino to the northeast that is causing it. That said, this says "may", not yet confirmed, so I'd be hesistent to post, and suggest wait. --MASEM (t) 14:58, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • This nom should be properly templated, the target be El Nino, and the blurb be combined with the related weather nominations listed below. I am on my way to an appointment, otherwise I'd do it. μηδείς (talk) 17:55, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only a forecast, hasn't actually happened yet. Some media outlets are also idiotic and don't know how to read state names: TIME cited North Pole, Alaska, for example. Some of the comments here seem to insinuate that El Niño is a storm system, which it is not. It's not the direct cause for anything but rather a factor influencing global weather patterns. Also keep in mind suggestions to lump half a dozen damaging/deadly weather events together into a single blurb is not helpful. Should we also toss in the flooding in Paraguay and the developing cyclones over the South Pacific since they're also connected to the El Niño event? Maybe the rain over my neighbor's house while we're at it? Obviously not. Judge events on their own merits instead of trying to connect them together for the sake of reducing the number of blurbs. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:11, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Andrew Davidson: I'll just copy/paste my comments from Talk:December 2015 storm system: There are at least eight systems involved here for North America and Europe. Extratropical cyclones are complex and often break apart into multiple systems.

    (1) The first system involved in this article pulled into Canada and dissipated near Greenland on December 26. (2) A frontal boundary from the first system spawned a separate low south of Greenland on December 26, ultimately merging with storm 5 listed below. (3) A completely separate storm, dubbed Storm Eva, formed off Atlantic Canada—well east of the first storm—and raced across the Atlantic, impacting the British Isles, before pulling north of Scandinavia. (4) A weak system developed behind Eva and impacted the British Isles on Christmas. (5) Yet another system developed from a frontal boundary extending from the third storm and it rapidly pulled north toward Iceland. (6) Another system over the southern United States developed behind the first system—originating from an upper-level low—and is presently a weakening system over the Great Lakes. (7) A lingering frontal boundary left behind by a combination of storms 1 and 2 led to the formation of another storm off the Mid-Atlantic States on December 28. This system exploded into what's now known as Storm Frank, which is presently over Iceland. (8) another system recently developed over the North Atlantic on the heels of Storm Frank.

    At best, there are at least three "families" of storm complexes, with some having multiple degrees of separation from the original. The media is simplifying the complexity of these storms due to their rapid succession. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 22:41, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • (ec) The first several words in your link show it to suffer a severe misunderstanding of how ENSO works; El Nino is most certainly not a "weather system". That El Nino influences precipitation climatology is not in dispute, but the BBC has not, near as I can tell, said anything about linking a particular sequence of storms that happened to take place in the same multi-week period. We can't just lump together a bunch of marginally notable weather events for the sake of milling one newsworthy submission. – Juliancolton | Talk 22:45, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • That source does nothing to conclusively tie these events together. It just mentions the weather of 2015 and the El Niño event present throughout. It's more or less informing readers of what an El Niño influences. All weather events are inherently linked together; the atmosphere is dynamic and fluid. But to go so far as to say these separate events should be considered the same is incorrect. My own comments were not analyses of my own, they were taken directly from National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration surface weather analyses over the past 7 days. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but it would be wise to lend more credit to those whom actually follow weather on a daily basis—in fact, meteorology is my profession—rather than the words of newspaper authors whose job is to catch your attention and give a general idea of what's going on, regardless of whether or not it's factually sound. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 00:10, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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December 29

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[Closed] RD: Kim Yang-gon

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Article: Kim Yang-gon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): (BBC), (Sydney Morning Herald), (The New York Times)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 Jenda H. (talk) 10:55, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] RD: Pavel Srníček

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Article: Pavel Srníček (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The starting goalkeeper for the much-loved Newcastle United team of the 1990s, and a long-term international for the Czech Republic. Admittedly, his career doesn't extend to the heights of his successor Petr Čech, but it was certainly of a very high calibre and his ill health came completely unexpectedly and at a young age '''tAD''' (talk) 16:27, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Highly influential player in his country, died way too young. Article may need improvement though. EternalNomad (talk) 16:47, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Not seeing how this meets either RD requirement, unless the narrow field we're discussing is Newcastle United icons. A long career is not the equivalent of a distinguished one - with no individual or team honours, as far as I can see. Newcastle nearly won the Premier League and the Czechs nearly won the Euros. His death was unexpected, but long after his professional retirement. Fuebaey (talk) 18:10, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Certainly top of his field so it seems and has died suddenly. Article is in good shape for posting. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:03, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Typically, goalkeepers made soccer matches tied or barely scored with one or zero points. This guy is no exception. More than that, he was also a coach and an international sensation. Too bad he died so young. His autobiography will be posthumously published. --George Ho (talk) 21:39, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Are we talking about the same person? Newcastle under Keegan had a legendarily leaky defence; they were famous for scorelines like 4-3, not "soccer matches tied or barely scored with one or zero points". ‑ Iridescent 21:55, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. He wasn't even first choice at Newcastle for much of his time there (150 appearances in seven years really isn't that much; Peter Schmeichel made about 280 appearances for NUFC's rivals Manchester United in the same period, for comparison), he never won even a minor trophy at Newcastle, and his career outside Newcastle was a procession of nondescript mid-table strugglers. A nice guy, but nowhere near the top of his field unless the field is defined absurdly narrowly as "Czech goalies of the 1990s". ‑ Iridescent 21:55, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support the domestic appearances stat isn't that big a deal, he played 49 times for his country which is impressive by any standard. His sudden and untimely death enhances the nomination. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:25, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Iridescent. I don't see how he qualifies as a "very important figure" in the sport. Neljack (talk) 12:22, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Per Rambling Man, his untimely death makes it notable, article is sufficient. Zwerg Nase (talk) 14:15, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • support - article is in good condition. person is notable.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:16, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Many support opinions only prove that the person does not know anything about football.
  • Certainly top of his field Top of his field would be IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper. He had one season as undisputed first-choice goalkeeper at a non-top team in the Premier League, and his 146 Premier League games are less than the number of games a team has in 4 seasons.
  • he played 49 times for his country which is impressive by any standard 49 caps are the 20th most in his national team. His national team only exists since 1994. In most countries (including his country) the goalkeeper with most caps has over 100 caps (100 caps equals roughly 10 years as first-choice goal-keeper of a national team). 100 caps is also the most common measure for having many caps, and there are over 300 players who have reached 100 caps.
  • his untimely death makes it notable If someone would nominate Alfredo Pacheco that rationale would make sense. Cardiac arrest at age 47 is nothing extraordinary.
LoveToLondon (talk) 15:14, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of course, I don't know anything about football. Stupid me. If you knew anything about anything, the cardiac arrest of an athlete aged 47 is extraordinary. Now please, feel free to continue your "testy editing". The Rambling Man (talk) 16:46, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • You are the person who claimed he played 49 times for his country which is impressive by any standard (I clearly proved it is not), and I am glad to see you finally admitting publicly that you are stupid.
  • Regarding his cause of death, everyone who has a clue about mortality statistics knows that heart problems are a relatively common cause of death for men in that age group in the first world. Most people don't die that early, but dying due to heart problems at age 47 is nothing extraordinary (and having been an athlete does not decrease the risk).
LoveToLondon (talk) 17:19, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So glad you're back to your normal testy editing. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:30, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Ebola virus epidemic over in Guinea

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Article: Ebola virus epidemic in Guinea (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ WHO declares the end of ebola outbreak in Guinea. (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Still needs an update, and so does Ebola virus epidemic in West Africa, but this is some good news for the end of 2015. Tone 13:33, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That makes sense. It's even bigger news. --Tone 16:55, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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December 28

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[Posted (RD)] RD: Lemmy

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Proposed image
Article: Lemmy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Lemmy (pictured), an English musician known as a band member of Motörhead and Hawkwind, dies at the age of 70. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ An English musician Lemmy (pictured), known as a band member of Motörhead and Hawkwind, dies at the age of 70.
Alternative blurb II: ​ An English musician Lemmy (pictured) dies at the age of 70.
News source(s): [4]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Legendary rock-n-roller – Muboshgu (talk) 00:49, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This guy doesn't deserve an obituary blurb. He doesn't seem to be well known in North America. Also, what else is there other than being a rock star in multiple bands? --George Ho (talk) 05:01, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've lived all my life in North America, and I knew who he was since I was in high school in the 1970s. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 05:22, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mean RD or blurb, Spacecowboy? George Ho (talk) 10:33, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yo, check out the BBC quote "as he became one of music's most recognisable voices and faces." That doesnt soudn to me like only nor not even in the top of his field. Nergaal (talk) 12:53, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Nigeria bombings

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Article: No article specified
Blurb: Attacks in Maiduguri, Nigeria kill 80 people. (Post)
News source(s): Press TV and others
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Regular attacks in the region for the "first time in months killing [HIGH] tens of people" is not usual. Lihaas (talk) 20:58, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
By "hight" do you mean named or have you simply misspelled height? μηδείς (talk) 22:52, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Corrected.Lihaas (talk) 00:27, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] US storms

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Articles: December 2015 storm system (talk · history · tag) and 2015–2016 El Niño event (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 43 people are killed in storms across the United States. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
 The Rambling Man (talk) 17:00, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe he came did oppose it in nomination ;) (now watch the vitriol in personal attack).
Anyways, death count alone doesn't make it notable and since there is no reason given here for the nomination but mere "shock" that for some magical reason we don't have it, oppose.Lihaas (talk) 17:53, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I nominated it. The reason is obvious, 43 people have been killed in the last couple of days. Perhaps next time you could write in English? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:56, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Who said anything about contributions. I was just reminding some rambling guy I know to come shoot down another fine nomination. Nergaal (talk) 12:10, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You're not making any sense, but never mind! The Rambling Man (talk) 12:16, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Besides the death toll, the weather effects are almost unimaginably weird. Deserts are buried under a foot of snow (or more!), the northeast has a nearly summery Christmas, and countless local/regional meteorological records - to say nothing of tornadoes in Dallas. Several major cities are declared disaster zones. I considered nominating this a day or two ago, but the article was still a stub and many of the present effects had not hit yet. - OldManNeptune 20:12, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    When you say "the article was still a stub" are you referring to another article that I didn't discover? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:15, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - pending update Of clear international interest, death count is significant and likely to rise and is almost certain going to break records as shown on this WUnderground blog. yorkshiresky (talk) 20:29, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support pending update. With tornadoes and blizzards in Texas and record high 75F weather in the Northeast over the Christmas holidays the event is noteworthy and will be remembered for quite some time. (Many flowers and leaves are budding 3 months early, which will spell disaster when a freeze kills them.) The target article should be tied in with the unusual strong, if not record-breaking El Nino, which might actually be a better target. μηδείς (talk) 20:53, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose target article, support event – Extremely disruptive event with large loss of life, the deadliest series of natural disaster this year in the United States if my memory serves. As of now, this event is splintered across five articles: the nominated one, December 23–25, 2015 tornado outbreak, December 26–28, 2015 tornado outbreak, Tornadoes of 2015, and 2015–16 North American winter. Meteorologically, this event is comprised of two wholly separate extratropical cyclones, which is reflected by the two separate outbreak articles. The second system, December 26–28, has been far more disruptive than the first, being the cause of blizzards over Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico, as well as the deadly flooding along the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers. The first one, however, resulted in a record "heat wave" for Christmas-time, with record highs falling across the entire Eastern Seaboard. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 21:18, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – I live at a latitude of almost 65 degrees north, where severe winter weather is a way of life for half the year give or take, and we've had up to 15 feet (4.6 m) of total snowfall some winters. Roughly 24 hours ago, the closure of I-27 and I-40 was all over the news for X number of hours. When I later visited a friend who was watching The Weather Channel's report from Amarillo, we couldn't stop laughing uproariously over how little actual snow there was on the ground. That was before they got to the live report in which the roads behind the reporter were completely devoid of snow. Here, if someone said that they couldn't drive with that amount of snow on the road, we'd tell them that they're living in the wrong place. Sounds to me like another case of the media making a mountain out of a molehill. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 03:44, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • They're clearly reporting from the wrong location; several areas of seen multiple feet of snow, and these areas don't get storms of this magnitude that often. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 03:58, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • The northern latitude has frozen your brain. Why would West Texas cities have equipment for dealing with snow at all? It costs millions a year to maintain and would get used once every couple decades. Desert cities don't even have storm drains in many cases. Ergo, many affected cities have zero preparation for these conditions, much the way your city likely has zero preparation for sandstorms and heat waves. What you're laughing uproariously over is in fact a disaster that's pulling power lines down, grinding transportation to a halt, and threatening floods when it melts. - OldManNeptune 05:15, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Actually, the part about heat waves is somewhat misleading. Interior Alaska is a special case, shielded from coastal weather by multiple major mountain ranges. Temps in the 90–100 °F (32–38 °C) range are about as common anywhere from June to August as −40 – −60 °F (−40 – −51 °C) or colder temps are between December and February. The lack of humidity comparative to many other places keeps the former from being much of a problem. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 14:25, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pending updates The systems and their impact are notable. Per Cyclonebiscuit, I think that we need one good article here, likely the current Christmas storms one, but that links in the two tonarndo events and the summary article, and links in the El Nino factor, as well as including the temperature inversion that we saw. --MASEM (t) 12:51, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Fairly high death toll, but though I'm American, to be honest I don't detect great global interest. (Perhaps I'm biased against weather news?) Generally, wars and terrorism, i.e. human-caused disasters, are of greater significance. Sca (talk) 14:46, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • If this were deaths from winter blizzards typical of the States, with the same death toll. I'd agree. What is unusual is the toll being from floods and tornadoes which very rarely happen in this season. --MASEM (t) 15:51, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The news in the UK lately has been dominated by flooding. This followed an unseasonably warm Christmas. There has also been heavy flooding in South America. All these unusual weather patterns seem to be due to El Nino and so this should be the focus of the blurb, with a global background, not just the US. Here's a source which ties all this together: El Nino weather 'could be as bad as 1998', says Nasa. Andrew D. (talk) 14:37, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I'll get behind either a U.S.-oriented blurb or a broader worldwide "El Nino" one. There is no doubt that we have notable weather-related events in the news currently. Let's acknowledge that at ITN on our Main page.Jusdafax 15:08, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, perhaps in conjunction with North Pole temperature, oppose American-centric blurb – the weather systems are just as destructive across the Atlantic, thank you very much. Sceptre (talk) 17:29, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have expanded the article to a degree and moved it to December 2015 storm system to allow the broader coverage that has been pointed out in this nom and in the above North Pole temperature nom. I also tried to include the South American flooding and the expected UK flooding. --MASEM (t) 18:35, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support – Per revision by Masem of main target article, which however is still comparatively brief at 450 words. Sca (talk) 21:39, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, faded from the news, not important enough. Abductive (reasoning) 22:23, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Meadowlark Lemon

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Article: Meadowlark Lemon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Arguably better known as a basketball player than most NBA players were during his heyday.  RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 09:57, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, not qualified to edit sports. Sca (talk) 15:08, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We're all "qualified" to find sources for dubious statements, you know that. But no-one is under any obligation, of course, just a shame this will drop into stale territory before too long, despite the keen supporters who aren't prepared to do anything. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:12, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I the untechie made a few attempts. Sca (talk) 16:42, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Looks ready to post. Sca (talk) 02:04, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Japan-South Korea agreement on 'comfort women' issue

[edit]
Articles: Japan–Korea disputes (talk · history · tag) and Comfort women (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Governments of Japan and South Korea announces their "final and irreversible" agreement on historical comfort women issue. (Post)
News source(s): NHK World, Associated Press via The Guardian, Bloomberg Business

 61.245.26.3 (talk) 07:30, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Tone: if I understand you, you have created a new target article? If so, can you at least link to it, if not do what would be preferable, post a new, properly formatted blurb? I find it hard to know aht WP material I should be judging, while I agree the event as described is quite notable. μηδείς (talk) 06:24, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, I just duplicated the update from one article to the other. Anyway, I think the blurb is fine and it goes along with what the media said. Posting. --Tone 10:18, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 27

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Sports

[Closed] RD: Alfredo Pacheco

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Alfredo Pacheco (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC ElSavador.com
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: One of South (oops) Latin American football players. He had a good run until the fixing scandal. Too bad he was murdered. This should be in response to LoveToLondon's comments at the "Pavel Srníček" RD nomination. George Ho (talk) 17:24, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • He was a left back—if he were "top scorer" that would be earth-shaking news. You realise that restricting football noms to "top scorer" would instantly disqualify nine out of every eleven players (the "four" and "four" in 4–4–2, plus the goalie), since it's only the two forwards whose job it is to score goals? ‑ Iridescent 18:43, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Most capped player in the history of a nation with a long football tradition is clearly "at the top of his field", even if Central American football isn't as well-known as its cousins to the south. ‑ Iridescent 18:43, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support South America is a powerhouse in football, and Central/North America countries are quite weak in comparison. El Salvador is currently at place 99 in the world in football, and playing many games for a weak team is comparably easy. His ban for life for match fixing and his murder are actually the parts that make him notable. LoveToLondon (talk) 19:56, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support anyone who believes that FIFA rankings count for anything "only prove[s] that the person does not know anything about football." It bears little relevance to this nomination. More testy editing. This individual was certainly notable enough within his sport and his untimely death makes the nomination even more notable. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:40, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Are you accusing me of being mentally ill? Please clarify your statement so that I can make sure exactly what it is you're accusing me of. Your RFC is a complete waste of time and effort, as already demonstrated. Your recent edits however seem to be as testy as ever. If you'd like to retract the questioning of my own mental health before you and your other accounts get indefinitely blocked, that would be wise. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:22, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, of course not, you missed the point where I asked if you were suggesting I was mentally ill. Are you going to continue this testy editing again? You have been advised time and time again to improve, clearly it has fallen on deaf ears, and now to accuse me of being mentally ill, you've taken it one step too far. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:17, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Check your dictionary for all meanings of the word schizophrenic. You seem to have (deliberately?) picked the one that fits best your agenda to block me. Please retract your lie regarding other accounts. LoveToLondon (talk) 22:28, 30 December 2015 (UTC)\[reply]
  • Nah, you can dance for that. Calling me mentally ill is beyond the pale pal. You need to sort your life out before your ongoing testy edits can be tolerated. Funny that I'm not alone in asking you to stop contributing in your own "testy" way, both then and now. If you could stop that altogether, it would be great, if not, it won't be long before you can't. Good riddance. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:33, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed, even footballers and football managers deem the FIFA rankings to be a complete joke. For someone to claim that the ranking of El Salvador is in some way relevant is abjectly clueless. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:22, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Iridescent Despite all its shortcomings, the FIFA ranking are the best available RS for the approximate strength of a national team - especially for lower ranked teams that rarely make it to big tournaments. 8 wins with 1 loss and 0 draws is a good record in 2015, and when you consider that the FIFA ranking is half based on the 2015 ranking it is not unreasonable to have Belgium at the top. Germany might have won the World Cup last year, but this year Belgium clearly had a better performance. Wales has a good record in 2015, and Brasil had non-stellar performances in 2015. LoveToLondon (talk) 22:13, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] RD: Ellsworth Kelly

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Ellsworth Kelly (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Major American minimalist sculptor and artist. Many solo exhibitions at major museums inc. Whitney and Guggenheim, National Medal of Arts and Praemium Imperiale recipient. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 04:21, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Corsica protests

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2015 Ajaccio unrest (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Following an arson attack on a mosque in Corsica, France, protests continue despite a ban. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A civil unrest occurs in Ajaccio, Corsica, following an arson attack on a mosque in the island area.
News source(s): bbc
Credits:
Nominator's comments: A violent turn in the events going on in Europe...yes Germany and Sweden too but that's in ongoing and this is not on migrants. Also the context of the JUST concluded election is at play.. Lihaas (talk) 02:17, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose An article about an attack on Muslims in France that does not even mention the Paris attacks? The nominator claim done the background makes it clear that the nominator has no understanding of the subject of the article he is writing. Before discussing the question whether this is ITN material (which I doubt), this article first needs someone who reads through French sources and properly describes how Corsican nationalism and the many recent attacks on Muslims all over France interact. LoveToLondon (talk) 02:45, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of being a whingeing tendentious editor, you can go ahead and draw the connection. I don't WP:OWN this article. btw- it also already cites racial tensions and the circumstances this month in CORSICA. where the winners want to be SEPERATE from france. Maybe you have "no understanding of the subject of the article". No need to insert your own synthesis that it has to mention the pris attacks and be related if you haven't read it.Lihaas (talk) 02:54, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Lihaas, I have no opinion on the event as of yet, but the article has things like "lingeres" for "lingers" and mentions breathlessly that "a part of a Qur'an" was burnt--(is this surprising in a mosque arson?)--although with no source. And even the blurb above isn't grammatical. I suggest a better presentation up front, before rushing to a nomination will have better results. μηδείς (talk) 04:16, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Considering below you [rightly] cited the ITN criteria and being in the news...how then does the mere build up in a morue constitute a criteria?Lihaas (talk) 12:48, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand what you're saying at all. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:47, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, closing myself now, given no further support 24 hours after my suggestion this be closed. μηδείς (talk) 05:52, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] RD: Stevie Wright

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Stevie Wright (Australian singer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC Australia, The Guardian (UK)
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: An Australian singer who fronted The Easybeats in the 1960s and known as "Australia's first international pop star". AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 00:03, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] RD: Haskell Wexler

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Haskell Wexler (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes LATimes CBS
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Described by NY Times as "one of the most inventive cinematographers in Hollywood", won two Academy Awards and has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Seems to have been important enough in his field for RD. Everymorning (talk) 23:53, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
presuming that's the highest award for cinematographers, then obvious support.Lihaas (talk) 23:55, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Liberation of Ramadi

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Battle of Ramadi (2015–Present) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Iraqi Army announces ISIS has been ousted from the capital of Anbar province after the Battle of Ramadi. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Government forces in Iraq announce ISIS has been ousted after the Battle of Ramadi, while in Syria government forces announce Jaysh al-Islam leader Zahran Alloush is killed.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Government forces in Iraq announce the ousting of ISIS after the Battle of Ramadi.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The Iraqi Army announces announce the ousting of ISIS after the Battle of Ramadi.
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Another major gain against Daesh, as in Syria below (which we could combine). This was a major centre of theirs in Iraq. I suppose when Raqqa is liberated next year that would be more important too. Lihaas (talk) 23:08, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Tried one. Feel free to tweak. (the blurb is not showing up, but you can see it when you hit edit)Lihaas (talk) 01:04, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The problem was that the altblurb field was there twice, with one of them blank. μηδείς (talk) 02:13, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you want to combine completely unrelated events from different civil wars in different countries into one blurb? There is no relation at all between the two. LoveToLondon (talk) 03:34, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In recent weeks too many blurbs has not been our problem. We are often criticized for a lack of turnover. 331dot (talk) 02:27, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think newsticker blurbs about the latest battles in these civil wars, or newsticker blurbs about the latest rebel leader killed, are an improvement. And turnover is expected to become better when the Christmas time is over. LoveToLondon (talk) 03:34, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it's a major development. Oppose vote fails to convince. Major developments happen, by definition, quite rarely. Offhand I don't recall the last major battle from the Syrian, Iraqi and Yemeni civil wars we posted to ITN; it's probably been months or at least weeks. Banedon (talk) 03:22, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Soemoene changed the link from the one I nominated.Lihaas (talk) 03:52, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I did that, thought it was obvious? The one you nominated was to a battle that was fought from 21 November 2014 – 17 May 2015? Banedon (talk) 03:54, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The contents was moved to an own article during the nomination. The nominator doesn't seem to follow the talk page of the article he nominated (and got his only edit in the article he nominated reverted due to violating existing consensus). LoveToLondon (talk) 04:52, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Go humour your ad-hominem NPA someplace else. I nominated...someone changed the onus is on them to inform of this!Lihaas (talk) 12:46, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 26

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime
  • In the Louisville community of St. Matthews, Kentucky, US, disruptive behavior by a crowd of up to 2,000 teenagers and young adults, including numerous fights and unconfirmed reports of gunshots fired, causes Mall St. Matthews, one of the largest shopping malls in the state, to close early. Despite the unrest, no arrests were made and only minor injuries were reported. (NBC News)

December 25

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economics

Disasters and accidents

International relations

[Posted] RD: George Clayton Johnson

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Article: George Clayton Johnson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, Variety, CBC News, NY Times, Gulf News, TVQC, RP Online
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Most famous for Logan's Run, Ocean's 11, his work on The Twilight Zone and the first episode of Star Trek: The Original Series. Nominated for both Nebula and Hugo Awards, and won a Balrog Award and an Inkpot Award. The article did previously mention an unreferenced Academy Award nomination but I couldn't find any sources for that and so removed it. Since his death there has been a surprisingly high coverage in the media around the world which has resulted in listing it here. Miyagawa (talk) 10:23, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support as nominator Like I said, I was initially unsure until I saw the coverage, then when I saw the awards I felt that he met the criteria to have been at the top of the field - which he was, at least for a time. Miyagawa (talk) 10:23, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but article needs clean up. Just for interest, the Academy Award nominations for Logan's Run didn't really have anything to do with Johnson (one for cinematography and one for visual effects). The Rambling Man (talk) 11:57, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah, that explains the loose Oscar line that I couldn't find a cite for. I've now cited the rest of the article and removed what I couldn't find evidence for. It could still do with a hefty expansion which I might be tempted to do at some point having been working up "The Man Trap" prior to his death. Miyagawa (talk) 14:47, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Robert Spitzer

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Robert Spitzer (psychiatrist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC News Seattle Times NY Times Independent
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Described as "most influential psychiatrist" for his work on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and he is credited with removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders in 1973. 331dot (talk) 09:17, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As of this edit a lot of the article is written in the present perfect, rather than the past perfect or simple past. The article itself seems overwhelmed by the orientation controversy. I am not sure we should be posting the death at ITN if that controversy is what makes the subject notable. μηδείς (talk) 00:42, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose RD nomination advertised with most influential psychiatrist, but the only entry in the Awards and prizes is from the city where he seems to have lived his whole life? If the claims by the nominator are true, he surely got many awards in his field and honorary awards from several universities all over the world. LoveToLondon (talk) 01:24, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It is not me advertising, it is what the reliable sources are saying. He essentially wrote the book of psychiatry. If that doesn't make one "very important" to a field, what does? Awards are not the only measure of notability. Not every field has awards. 331dot (talk) 02:24, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That's simply inaccurate. Spitzer didn't create the first DSM in the 50's, he chaired the committee crafting the DSM III published in 1980. Then absolutely nothing of great note until 2001 when he said that some people can have some success at changing their sexual orientation. Except for the "betrayal" (the word is in our article) the gay community felt, and his rather belated retraction of that paper, he'd be a footnote. μηδείς (talk) 04:07, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you feel that way, fair enough, but you might want to speak to the reliable sources who are saying otherwise. 331dot (talk) 11:48, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Who exactly is saying exactly that? A journalist citing his successor with a blurry claim that he was the most influential psychiatrist is the opposite of a reliable source.
Even one of the sources you gave disproves your claim: From 1980 to 2001, he won many of the field’s most prestigious awards, including one for patient care and one for teaching. This is still too vague to be useful, but proves that the article is incomplete at this critical point.
Is there actually any person not from the US claiming (opposed to citing a claim) that he was the most influential psychiatrist, or was he only important in his field locally in one country with less than 5% of the world's population? What you call the book of psychiatry has zero WP articles in other languages, which seems to hint at the latter? Awards and honorary doctorates (and their geographical distribution) are objective facts that are much more useful than his successor telling a journalist a blurry claim that he was the most influential psychiatrist.
My oppose is primarily about article quality. There might be enough objective facts proving his importance in his field in the US, and I am curious whether he was also considered important in his field outside the US - but with the current incomplete state of the article there is not enough information for judging whether you or Medeis are right about his importance. LoveToLondon (talk) 14:42, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As I stated, fair enough. You are entitled to your views. 331dot (talk) 15:30, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Well sourced article and the subject appears to be top of his field. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:28, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I am queer, and I remember when the DSM III was published, and homosexuality itself was removed as a disorder. I also remember when Spitzer said that it was possible for certain homosexuals to have successful heterosexual relationships (something I can attest to myself) in 2001. Finally, I also remember the shemful campaign against Spitzer, and his qualified withdrawal of his claims as scientific fact. That being said, Spitzer in no way reaches the level of acclaim of others in the general field of psychology who have been posted, and besides the three controversial declarations on homosexuality, I see no notability here. I honor the man for his integrity, but not his personal notability. μηδείς (talk) 05:03, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support His involvement in the DSM demonstrates significant importance to the field of psychiatry. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:49, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Zahran Alloush death

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Zahran Alloush (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Jaysh al-Islam leader Zahran Alloush is killed in Syrian Arab Air Force airstrike. (Post)
News source(s): RT IE MEE
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: notable step, especially since the ones being bussed from Damascus suburbs to Raqqa under UN supervision (as part ofa months long negotiation) is now on hold. Lihaas (talk) 19:22, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] December 2015 Hindu Kush earthquake

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: December 2015 Hindu Kush earthquake (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  A 6.3 magnitude earthquake hits north Asia. (Post)
News source(s): US Survey yahoo NBC Samaa
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 Anjana LarkaTalk 09:30, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: Yes you can say (at this time) this is a minor consequence but first one is not a good excuse life of a single person is as important as of 10 or 20. Anjana LarkaTalk 10:30, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No one is saying that a single life is not valuable, but we are not able to post every single earthquake in the world. There must be something notable or unusual about it, such as a large number of casualties or damage. This earthquake doesn't appear to have even killed one person as of right now. 331dot (talk) 10:44, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you 331dot. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:20, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Sadhana Shivdasani

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Article: Sadhana Shivdasani (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Veteran Actress Sadhna Passes Away
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article in good condition and appeared to be a major figure in Bollywood --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:41, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you should go ahead and propose for this article to be deleted if she is not notable? 87.154.217.17 (talk) 10:34, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are you being deliberately disruptive? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:12, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support We put up Paul Walker did we not? Samuel L. Jackson has not won any major American awards but is very popular and are you going to say that we would not put him up? She was nominated for India's academy equivalent twice twice. Unfortunately we don't have edtiors that specialise in 1970's Indian Cinema to make her article up to scratch, especially compared to our coverage of internet celebs or the likes. GuzzyG (talk) 05:19, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Jackson's lead puts it better than I could: " has achieved critical and commercial acclaim, surpassing Frank Welker as the actor with the highest grossing film total of all time in October 2011,[1] and he has received numerous accolades and awards." and not just "he was third highest paid actor in the 1970s". Posting Walker was a gross error, as we know, to repeat it would be negligent. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:09, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    You fail to mention that it also says "... was one of the top actresses in the 1960s and the early-1970s, a period regarded as Bollywood's golden era". Nice try. 87.154.217.17 (talk) 10:36, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Not a "nice try" at all, I simply stated that Jackson would be obvious because he actually won awards and set records, unlike this individual who was popular and according to one single source "one of the top actresses". Now give it a rest. Oh, and that reference to the hagiographical Hindu page, the article is so poorly written, one wonders if it really could be used as a reliable source. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:17, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I do think it's a bit of a stretch to include her but Jimmy Hill has been on the page for a week and i am positive that if this actress was British or American and of equivalent status in those countries cinemas that she would qualify. Indian cinema is one of the top three worldwide so i have no problems with posting one of it's top stars, especially when you can guarantee that people will get Pamela Anderson up here. The quality of the article is weak i do agree with you. GuzzyG (talk) 11:55, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Jimmy Hill fundamentally changed the way football worked. This actress was reasonably popular and well paid. Yes, Pammy would get some support, but there'd also be a huge backlash against it too. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:59, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    As a huge Football fan i am quite aware of Jimmy Hill's accomplishments and i am not downplaying them, i was more pointing out in nice terms that seeing a fresh name might not hurt. GuzzyG (talk) 13:06, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per GuzzyG. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 05:26, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - As long as this person is not blurbed and the article is in good shape, mentioning and honoring her name are fine for me. Also, regardless of popularity, she has been prominent to the industry, especially due to her award nominations, though she did not win awards. George Ho (talk) 05:28, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. When you're an actress whose name is a household word in your country, that sort of popularity puts you at the top of your field even if you didn't get a single Oscar. The article easily qualifies her. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 06:05, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment before an admin posts this, could they read the article please. We have unreferenced puffery such as "The Rafi – Asha duet "Abhi Na Jaao Chodkar" remains evergreen.", "to make their famous suspense thriller trilogy.", "she played her remarkable double role ", " Madan Mohan’s all time classics like", "thus making her famous as the "Mystery girl"." etc etc, all in one section. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:17, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
not ready there are 2 sentences of her death as of this month...and one is the general illness, but I 'spose it counts as a reaction of sorts. Plus there is an orange tag in the article.Lihaas (talk) 23:10, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: The orange tag was more a drive by tagging with no rationale provided on talk page or elsewhere. I removed that. And "Abhi Na Jaao Chodkar" is indeed notable, included in 47 seleted duets of Asha-Rafi in Golden Collection pack. Anyways, the sentences are now altered a lot. The Hindu called her "the woman who defined elegance and grace for Bollywood" (ref) and that conveys her notability. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 09:25, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    It was pretty obvious (a rationale was given in the edit summary), so I've replaced it and added a note on the talk page just for you. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:43, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done All films refed/blue linked. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 11:45, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank

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Article: Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank is formally established after 17 countries ratify its Articles of Agreement. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Charter of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank enters into force.
News source(s): reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: very relevant development in Asia-Pacific region, with relevance also to lots of English speaking regions (India, New Zealand, Australia); but also from an international relations pov. L.tak (talk) 16:47, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Maybe that's why it's partly confusing since the blurb only mentions 17. And the article you mentioned was posted with a blurb that included "amounting to about 40% of world's GDP", which was a clear indicator of the significance of the agreement. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:54, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The US alone has 22% of the world's GDP, so that's not a good measure - even a bilateral agreement between the US and a tiny country always amounts to more than 20% of the world's GDP (the signatory countries of the AIIB are also over 40%). I've added an altblurb without any confusing numbers based on the wording on the AIIB webpage - apart from what the name of the bank already tells, it is hard to put the significance of the bank in a NPOV way into very few words. LoveToLondon (talk) 22:40, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - China is one of the signatories and will be most influential to the Bank. So is South Korea, which is geographically smaller. Of course, the creation of the Bank is big news, even when the press doesn't emphasize it that much. George Ho (talk) 09:43, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
neutral for now I considered coming here for this but am not so sure. If we posted its announcement then we should probably wait till its operationally functional in a few months.Lihaas (talk) 13:21, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I see the point, but the problem with that is that there is no true "moment" for that. The board of governors will meet early January. At some point it will hand out its first loan etcetc, but there is no clear-cut "start of operations", except for its formal establishment as a bank (which now has happened on the 25th). So it probably is now, or 6 months ago (signing the articles of agreement), or... probably not at all...L.tak (talk) 14:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
its not. they were to formally begin operations in April or March.Lihaas (talk) 19:15, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The point where it is confirmed that the AIIB is actually being founded is now. That is the big news. A first board meetings or staff hiring (they won't have much staff) will not be big news. LoveToLondon (talk) 02:11, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 24

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and medicine

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Politics and elections

[Closed] Santa is on his way

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Articles: Santa Claus (talk · history · tag) and Christmas (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Santa Claus is making his way around the world delivering gifts (Post)
Alternative blurb: Santa Claus is giving Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and his friends a well-earned rest after they helped him deliver gifts to all the good children of the world.
News source(s): Google's Santa Tracker, RTE
Credits:
 Count Iblis (talk) 20:40, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, Brandmeister, can't be a BLP issue as BLP is Biography of Living People, and Santa Claus = Sinter Klaas = Saint Nicholas, whose bio article tells us he died on December 6th 343 AD, so to claim it as a BLP issue is to blasphemously doubt the inerrancy of Wikipedia and/or its Reliable Sources. Incidentally we may first need to update the Norad and Ghost articles, as Norad's tracking clearly means that Norad has proved the existence of at least one ghost, unless you are a wicked conspiracy theorist who blasphemously doubts the inerrant truth of the utterances of an agency of Uncle Sam. Tlhslobus (talk) 00:02, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also, more seriously, per WP:IAR, the presence of the tags should not be used as an excuse to avoid posting. There are potentially major benefits for kids who read the article and learn that Santa is a fiction inflicted on them by lying adults, and potentially major long-term benefits for Wikipedia in the form of the long-term gratitude of some of the kids who realize they have learnt the truth thanks to Wikipedia. Tlhslobus (talk) 02:03, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nice guy, BabbaQ? Nearly 60 years ago I used to meet him every year in my local department stores, and I found him more boring than nice. But he's obviously got a picture in an attic somewhere, as he hasn't aged a bit in 60 years. Tlhslobus (talk) 00:25, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Is there an Islamic and Jewish counterpart of Santa Claus? Possibly, but presumably not one who delivers gifts to good kids at midnight as Christmas Eve turns to Christmas. And there presumably isn't a Confucian, Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, Shinto, animist or atheist equivalent either, and I'm my own eccentric variety of agnostic ignostic sceptic humanist and I'm not aware of any equivalent among any of my 4 labels, but I've still supported the nomination. I don't even want to be ecumenical by having us point out that Santa is an anagram of Satan to try to broad-mindedly keep a few Satanists happy. The relevant rule that supports posting is WP:IAR. I should add that any kid who is old enough to read and understand the Santa Claus article, and proceeds to do so, will presumably learn that Santa Claus is a fictional character (and that adults must therefore sometimes be shameless liars), and he/she may also pass on this info to his/her friends. And I don't think the purpose of Wikipedia is to prevent kids finding out useful info like that. Tlhslobus (talk) 01:09, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So you think there is nothing serious about helping kids who are old enough to read Wikipedia to learn that Santa Claus is a fiction inflicted on them by lying adults? Tlhslobus (talk) 02:07, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And do you also think that there is nothing serious about potential long-term benefits for Wikipedia in the form of the long-term gratitude of some of the kids who realize they have learnt the truth thanks to Wikipedia? Or do you think that the encyclopedia is improved by depriving itself of those long-term benefits? Tlhslobus (talk) 02:23, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(I should perhaps add that I personally only really care about the potential benefits to the kids, but I'm also mentioning the potential benefits to Wikipedia (which for me are just a minor bonus) because they are real and because others here may really care about them, and it's probably a very good thing if they do so) Tlhslobus (talk) 02:56, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
May I refer you to my earlier comments about the seriousness of giving or denying kids who can read Wikipedia a chance to learn that Santa is a lie inflicted on them by lying adults, plus the seriousness of the potential benefits to Wikipedia of us doing so. Tlhslobus (talk) 12:35, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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December 23

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Armed conflicts and attacks
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Science and technology

[Closed] 2015 Zaria Shia Massacre

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Articles: 2015 Zaria Shia Massacre (talk · history · tag) and Ibrahim Zakzaky (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Dozens of shias are killed in clashes with Nigerian army in Zaria following arrest of Ibrahim Zakzaky. (Post)
News source(s): (Al Jazeera), (BBC)
Credits:

Article needs updating
 --Jenda H. (talk) 14:08, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Substantial issues with POV/neutrality: "Nigeria's military is infamous for its excesses." or "What happened in Zaria was nothing but an act of brutality by the Nigerian military." Additionally, nearly all of the "international and domestic reactions" cited in the article come from the Islamic Human Rights Commission, Iran, Nigerian Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, as well as students in Pakistan and India. I'm not saying those aren't relevant, but I'm curious as to what other reactions are out there from other nations/NGOs. SpencerT♦C 20:14, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • support - when the issues mentioned above has been solved. Notable and interesting.--BabbaQ (talk) 00:05, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did the deaths happen on the 12th through 14th? The news seemed too old. This ain't elections or floodings; I'm unsure whether announcement exception applies. George Ho (talk) 00:20, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Generally in support of promoting this to ITN, I'm not at all happy with the current state of the article. A number of important questions remain unclear, and while the article is overly verbose in various citations, it is imprecise and lacks meaningful, sourced background. PanchoS (talk) 09:57, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
oppose as stale it happened some time ago and should have been posted then. DYK maybe if the article was recently created.Lihaas (talk) 13:39, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] RD: Bülend Ulusu

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Bülend Ulusu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Possibly significant enough for RD. Turkish admiral, Commander of the Navy and former prime minister -- though he was prime minister in the regime formed by a military coup. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 04:30, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Brunei bans Christmas

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Articles: Hassanal Bolkiah (talk · history · tag) and Brunei (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Brunei sultan Hassanal Bolkiah bans the public celebration of Christmas. (Post)
News source(s): [5] [6]
Credits:
 Banedon (talk) 02:35, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Unless this leads to massive protests or widespread religious conflict of some sort. More symbolic than real impact at this point. SpencerT♦C 02:43, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. Countries are free to recognize or not recognize whatever holidays they see fit, and they can also limit the rights of their citizens to engage in public activities they find undesirable. As Spencer states, unless this leads to widespread protests or conflict, I don't think this merits posting(though I concede it may garner interest with Christmas approaching). 331dot (talk) 02:46, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    While I can agree that countries can do whatever the want with public holidays or limit the rights of their citizens in whatever ways they want, if we say this kind of policy decision is an internal affair and not worth posting then it would also exclude a variety of items from ITN, such as elections (unless they lead to widespread protests) and Japan expanding the role of its self-defense forces, something we posted in September this year. I realize I'm extrapolating somewhat from what you wrote, but the implications to me are quite clear. Banedon (talk) 04:09, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    We judge each item on its own merits, not on past precedent, and in this case I don't feel the merits warrant posting. A country taking an action that it is able to do, that isn't heavily in the news(from what I see this is not front page, top level news) does not rise to the level of ITN. An officially pacifist country like Japan deciding to expand its military is a radical change in policy that was widely covered; an Islamic country using Sharia law deciding to ban Christmas is not a radical change in policy. 331dot (talk) 10:46, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Brunei? Never heard of it. In the meantime, you're a mean one, Mr. Sultan. μηδείς (talk) 04:13, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Leaving aside the religious aspect, it's perfectly reasonable for a government to see the secular version of Christmas as a public nuisance and decide, "we don't want that." - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 09:13, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure about posting this, but it is not at all a secular decision. Brunei if I remember well is one of the most repressive anti-secular countries in the world, where Sharia law is actually pretty much used in courts. Nergaal (talk) 10:37, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
support IFF they HAD shoot down or drone Santa.Lihaas (talk) 13:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Resignation of the Georgian Prime Minister

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Proposed image
Article: Irakli Garibashvili (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Georgian Prime Minister Irakli Garibashvili (pictured) resigns after only two years in office. (Post)
News source(s): Civil.ge, Reuters
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Let's see whether this will fly... This is a very surprising resignation, after only two years in office, no reasons given. Admittedly in a small country, but this is a big deal for what is a young democracy. Alternatively, one could post the new prime minister, once announced (this Friday probably). Or nothing at all if Georgia is just too small to matter. 93.215.83.247 (talk) 22:02, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The president has a mostly ceremonial role, as the constitution was changed in 2012. The prime minister is the one who calls the shots. 93.215.83.247 (talk) 23:37, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The government is not changing, at least not until the next election in a year. Presumably someone from the same party will replace him, even if only temporarily. 331dot (talk) 23:11, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have added a few citations and removed some non-neutral language, the article is not perfect, but at least everything is cited now. 93.215.83.247 (talk) 15:12, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I marked it as ready by default as opposers seem too proud to be mostly ignorant on Georgian political system. --George Ho (talk) 21:32, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral First, I do note the article really could use more citations. But as for including this, it really would be prudent based on the reasons. If it was just that stress got to him, that's probably not news. If it part of some scandal (which I'm not aware of) that might be different. But as it is, adding Brandmeister's point that PM in Georgia is not the state leader, it's hard to tell if this is news. --MASEM (t) 23:01, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. This doesn't seem to be getting widespread, top news coverage; as stated he doesn't seem to have resigned due to a scandal or other problem. 331dot (talk) 23:11, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The IP gave us a heads-up about the Georgian government. Shall this change your mind, 331dot? George Ho (talk) 00:16, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not totally sure what you are referencing, but if you are referring to the fact that the Georgian head of state is ceremonial, that does not change my mind. The government is still not radically changing as I understand it until the next election in a year. If this resignation was prompted by a scandal or even a serious health issue(neither of which seems to be the case, he either did for political reasons or he was just not interested any more), I would support. 331dot (talk) 00:22, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
He did not state any reasons for his resignation. There might have been a scandal, there might serious health reasons or whatever. It's all speculation, but the fact that this resignation came as an utter surprise and is completely unexplained makes it noteworthy.
It would be noteworthy if it resulted in political change or was due to a scandal(which does not seem to be the case as no one knows why). 331dot (talk) 12:40, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We are not a newspaper or news ticker. Merely being in the news(and this isn't top level news) is not sufficient. 331dot (talk) 10:50, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What's the difference between Georgian politics and US politics? Also, how should the resignation of the Georgian PM be different from resignation of the US President? George Ho (talk) 10:55, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The US President is head of state; the Georgian PM is not head of state. We did not post the US Speaker of the House resigning. 331dot (talk) 10:58, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
But a Georgian PM is the head of government right now. It somehow can resemble a US Vice President, right? --George Ho (talk) 11:03, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The US Vice President is not head of government(the President is) and I doubt an uncontroversial resignation of one would warrant posting either. The Speaker of the House is closer to a PM in America's system(though not exactly the same) and as I indicated, that resignation was not posted. 331dot (talk) 11:08, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As I wrote above, the Georgian PM is the one who holds all the power and is the Georgian equivalent to the US president or the German chancellor or the Russian president. Different countries have different political systems, but in Georgia it is the PM who matters. Fine if you oppose, but at least educate yourself about the item in question. 93.215.83.247 (talk) 12:30, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You do not know what I have and have not educated myself about; I am well aware of the nature of the position. ITN has always placed head of state as more important, as they represent their nation to the world. Someone who resigns without scandal and will likely be replaced(if temporarily) with someone ideologically similar is much less notable. As I stated, the recent resignation of the US Speaker of the House was not posted, for the same reason. 331dot (talk) 12:38, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The absurd comparison to the speaker of the house strongly suggests that you have no clue about the Georgian political system. Which is fine, after all it's a small nation, but then please do not vote on these items. I would also not claim that there was no scandal, because quite simply, the reasons for this resignation are unknown. There might have been a scandal, there might be health reasons, there might be something else. What makes this is a baffling and non-routine resignation. I also find it hard to believe that ITN places head of states as more important than the head of government as a rule. Surely Angela Merkel resigning would be posted, Joachim Gauck as president and head of state of Germany resigning would be much more doubtful. 93.215.83.247 (talk) 14:54, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you had read my above posts you would have seen that I realize the two offices are not the same, but the manner in which they were suggested for posting is. I will post my views (we do not 'vote') on whatever nominations I choose to do so, as will you. A change in head of state is specifically listed on the recurring events list while head of government is not and attempts to add it have not succeeded. 331dot (talk) 00:14, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I concur with this IP guy. Watch what you say about the news and politics from Georgia next time, 331, or you'll be sorry. --George Ho (talk) 14:58, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Is that a threat?--WaltCip (talk) 21:02, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@George Ho: What exactly does that mean? 331dot (talk) 00:14, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm too busy to reply to your misassumptions on Georgian politics, 331. Please excuse me, I have other errands to do... --George Ho (talk) 00:29, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Walt, I wasn't threatening 331. I just warned him to be careful about his words. George Ho (talk) 00:40, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean? George Ho (talk) 11:26, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's hardly "in the news" is it? I looked for updates, but nothing. And don't try to threaten me, it won't work. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:21, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not frontline news because the NY Post, Daily Mail and others, rarely report on anything happening outside North American/Europe. Unless there is of course a terror attack on American/European tourists in the darker corners of the world. 93.215.94.29 (talk) 15:31, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't know about those outlets, I never read them. But the outlets I do read most certainly cover international news. This was covered when it happened and has soon been completely forgotten about. This is the ITN section of the main page, not the "things we ought to be seeing in the news" part of the main page. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ITN says, "Do not assess whether a story is "prominent" or not based on where you see it reported on major news websites for this reason." You haven't explained else why the resignation of Georgian PM is not newsworthy other than "it's not in the news" criterion. George Ho (talk) 00:04, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm basing my position on whether our readers will be looking for this. That it was a mere blip in the major and minor news outlets and that it has already become chip paper means it's not in the news. And there is no consensus. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:04, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is still big news and widely discussed in the media of post-soviet countries, please don't base your assessment on the news sources you read. 87.154.217.17 (talk) 10:42, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, as am I. I will base my assessment on my own criteria, and that means this isn't in the news and therefore shouldn't be on the main page of English language Wikipedia. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:11, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Unhelpful. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:21, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Widely discussed in the media of the former Soviet Union is not an opinion. No go back and read your personal favorite news about the Kardashian's and Justin Bieber. 87.154.217.17 (talk) 11:19, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Opposers rely on the press's low emphasis on Georgian political system, bad comparisons, etc. Masem, care to vote? George Ho (talk) 01:04, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion that news coverage is not relevant to "in the news", as you canvass for support. 331dot (talk) 01:12, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment it's worth re-visiting the ITN introduction which states The In the news (ITN) section on the main page serves to direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest. i.e. of wide interest. This individual's article was receiving around 50 to 60 hits per day before the resignation, then around 1000 before now dropping back towards its previous levels. This is a clear and bright indicator that this story is most definitely not of wide interest to our readers. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:30, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What about other criteria of "wide"? --George Ho (talk) 18:39, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Do tell. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:07, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you really believe in this method of judging whether an item is of wide interest, you should get it written into ITN policy. I can just imagine the clause: "Any article that does not receive more than an average of 1000 page views a day for a period of one week is not of sufficiently wide interested to Wikipedia's readers to post in ITN". Banedon (talk) 03:41, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I really do believe that if an article gets around 60 hits per day on average, it is of little interest to our English language Wikipedia readers. I have no interest in your suggestion, by all means take it up yourself. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:45, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've restarted the general head of government change ITNR discussion you had closed as stalled in Wikipedia talk:In the news/Recurring items#Change proposal: All changes to the head of government. The current rule that changes of a lot of mostly powerless presidents, kings and queens are listed at ITNR but changes to the head of government are not doesn't make sense. LoveToLondon (talk) 10:29, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Great! The Rambling Man (talk) 10:32, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, the Rambling Man prefer ITN to be populated by basketball players and the Kardashians, because clearly they get many hits and can be found in the English language press. It's sad to see so much hostility by an admin (!) towards news from parts of the world that are already underrepresented at Wikipedia. 87.154.209.127 (talk) 08:42, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That has neither logic nor evidence attached to it. But why spoil a good story? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:57, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait A new Prime Minister will clearly be suitable for ITN, and the parliament is expected to vote on a new Prime Minister soon. Two ITN items for one Prime Minister change are too many, and the new Prime Minister is the more important news. LoveToLondon (talk) 03:42, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In your opinion. The question is if it is sufficiently noteworthy to appear in the news. 331dot (talk) 09:59, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Ongoing: War in Afghanistan

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: War in Afghanistan (2015–present) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Even when the article has very little to update, additions have been recently added. Also, the War still continues. --George Ho (talk) 03:42, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
2015? It's been going on since shortly after 9/11/01. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots04:05, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Baseball Bugs: I don't know whether you misunderstood or are joking. This is one of the phases. Also, the War went on since the Cold War. George Ho (talk) 04:24, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Precisely. So how does a begin date of 2015 figure into it? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots04:30, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean? I just chose one article that is easier to update. The main War page hasn't been updated recently. What are your alternatives? --George Ho (talk) 04:34, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I really don't see any need for posting this to "Ongoing events", as there are currently no related news that merit inclusion and thereby making overcrowd. The increased editing traffic certainly indicates that something is going on but there are hundreds or even thousands other articles with increased editing traffic as well. Shall we include them all?!--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:09, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Without any comment on the merits of the nomination, something really needs to be done about the delineation of the Afghanistan War phases. Using arbitrary years just seems too confusing, because the war has been going on for over a decade now, regardless of what the POTUS says.--WaltCip (talk) 12:35, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are Cold War (1962–79), Cold War (1979–85), etc. Why must phases of Cold War be treated differently from phases of Afghan War? This is George Ho actually (Talk) 18:45, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Not seeing anything major that warrants this being placed under "ongoing". I share the same sentiments on the awkward delineation of the war phases too. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 13:36, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There is an ongoing war but no recent major battles. 198.16.164.205 (talk) 15:00, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are dozens of such world affairs that are technically ongoing for decades, but unless they reach an intensity as to warrant special attention, we can't list all of them all the time. If the article has little to update but has still been well maintained, that is commendable, but it would be better to post as ongoing when there is a great deal to update, no? - OldManNeptune 13:45, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 22

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economics
  • Turing Pharmaceuticals says that it is looking for a new CEO in the aftermath of the indictment of its old boss, Martin Shkreli, on securities fraud charges. Turing and Shkreli became infamous together in September 2015, when they hiked the price of an AIDS drug by 5000%. (Reuters)

Disasters and accidents

Health
Politics and elections

Science

[Posted] Falcon-9 first stage landing

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Proposed image
Articles: Falcon 9 (talk · history · tag) and Falcon 9 Flight 20 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ During the launch of Orbcomm satellites, the first stage of Falcon 9 (pictured) successfully lands in Cape Canaveral after completing its flight. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ During the launch of several Orbcomm satellites, the first stage of SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket (pictured) successfully lands in Cape Canaveral after completing its flight.
News source(s): spaceflightnow, Telegraph, USA Today, The Verge
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This is a major achievement on the way to reusability of launchers. Hektor (talk) 02:09, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 21

[edit]
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Health and medicine

International relations

Politics and elections

Sports

[Closed] FDA relaxes ban on blood donations from MSM

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Men who have sex with men blood donor controversy (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Food and Drug Administration lifts a ban on blood donations from men who have sex with men, and replacing it with a requirement that such men must not have had sex with other men in the previous year to donate blood. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian NPR Ars Technica
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This ban was previously in place for 32 years, and many activists and medical groups have criticized it since then, so them getting the policy relaxed seems like a significant event. Everymorning (talk) 01:48, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose systemic US bias, parochial regional story about a backwards society finally catching up with the civilized world, things happened but nothing changed. Is that enough boiler-plate anti-American rhetoric to kill this item? --68.115.239.114 (talk) 02:00, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As stated above, "Please do not complain about an event only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." 331dot (talk) 02:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Bagram suicide bombing

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2015 Bagram suicide bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Six United States NATO service members are killed by a Taliban suicide bomber in Bagram, Afghanistan. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post BBC Al Jazeera
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Terrorist attack on United States NATO service members. Andise1 (talk) 01:36, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Star Wars global box office record

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Star Wars: The Force Awakens earns more than $528 million worldwide in its opening weekend, a box office record. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Star Wars: The Force Awakens earns more than $528 million worldwide in its opening weekend, a box office record, including $247 million in North America.
News source(s): CNN, Vanity Fair
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Despite earlier estimates that Star Wars would fall just short of the global record (primarily due to not opening in China yet), it now appears that it has eclipsed Jurassic World for the largest worldwide opening weekend of all time. Although this isn't exactly an unexpected outcome and this isn't a record that we often post - a new record happens every few years or so, with Jurassic's record occurring in June 2015 - these are still huge numbers by a well-known mega-franchise. --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:47, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I added the total of NA box office gross in altblurb. Despite significance of the franchise and fantastic excitement, the overseas gross ratio ain't that huge. Also, significance at ITN standards is too low. Jurassic World wasn't ITN when it hit $500 million worldwide. Why should this movie? George Ho (talk) 20:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For the note, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2 was ITN four years ago. George Ho (talk) 21:05, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. "Biggest of all time" yes, if it reaches that, but opening weekend sales are more a piece of marketing than anything else. It's completely predictable that with the number of theater seats rising, blockbuster movies are going to have increased sales. ‑ Iridescent 21:43, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. An event like this is a trivial figure in the grander scheme of the world, like being a presidential frontrunner or having a big lead in the middle of the sports season. If it becomes the highest grossing film of all time, definite support '''tAD''' (talk) 21:46, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Harry Potter blurb. Jurassic World wasn't nominated, and media and public interest in The Force Awakens is much larger. Last week it was our most read article by a factor four to five, excluding a factor two for Star Wars. December box office is usually more spread out when people have many days off. The previous December record opening was only $250 million for The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.[8] Avatar was in ITN when it became the highest grossing film in total (the only such record in Wikipedia's time). News interest is far larger when a film opens than when its total breaks a record – something "known" long in advance except for the precise day. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Huge, notable, obviously in the news. Yes, it's trivia, but so are a lot of the things we post. -Kudzu1 (talk) 22:07, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now or later, but not both. This is going to break Avatar's record and become the highest grossing film of all time. The question is do we want to wait for that second record, or post this one. --68.115.239.114 (talk) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – For this to happen without the movie being released China is an incredible feat. It holds opening records in 19 countries. Sooner or later the sales from the movie will warrant a blurb on ITN, whether it's now or when it inevitably passes $1 billion, or even $2 billion. Star Wars is most certainly "in the news" due to its status as a cultural phenomenon loved by multiple generations, it's of interest to the vast majority of people. Hell, The Force Awakens was the most viewed article on Wikipedia for December 13–19 by an incredible margin of 2.5 million views (above the article for the Star Wars franchise itself) and 4 million views above third place. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 22:45, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

* Comment OpposeSca (talk) 22:46, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

.......PS: May the Farce not be with us. Sca (talk) 15:43, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as media generated uber hype, no surprises, and trivia. Please consider making this a DYK. The Rambling Man (talk) 23:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The record is one broken frequently (see Jurassic World), and as TRM points out, arguably no one was surprised by this news. --MASEM (t) 23:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I see enough media coverage (+ fan coverage) of this to support this nomination. Oppose alt blurb: I see no reason to single out North America. Banedon (talk) 00:47, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Frequently broken record and hardly a surprise for the franchise. I'm not impressed by the volume of media coverage given how much is unmistakably sponsored content. As mentioned, we did not post Jurassic World; Harry Potter presumably went up due to sheer weight of fan bias. Can be renominated if it becomes highest grossing of all time - which is still trivia but at least is a less frequently broken record. - OldManNeptune 06:36, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - per above supports. Widespread global news, wide impact, multi-cultural touch point. Opposers utterly unconvincing. Huge Wikipedia readership. ITN-worthy, without a doubt. Jusdafax 07:15, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wide impact on who, specifically? Are Star Wars fans getting a cut of opening weekend proceeds? It seems you mean to say "wildly popular", which is self-evident from the fact that it's a blurb about ticket sales. The Star Wars franchise is obviously noteworthy, but I don't see how that translates to "The seventh film, much like the six before, sold well, setting the second opening weekend record of the year" being notable in the sense ITN uses. - OldManNeptune 07:24, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And of course if we post this, we then should be posting the next one in the franchise which no doubt will be as, if not more popular. This isn't a Star Wars ticker. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:35, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Poor argument, TRM. Same logical fallacy can be applied to numerous items that are posted here. We're not a sports ticker, yet the FIFA scandal has been posted multiple times. We go by what's "in the news" and it so happens that this movie is just that. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 07:42, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hold on, why aren't you criticising all those before me who have noted that this is an often-broken record? The Rambling Man (talk) 07:53, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No reason in particular, thoughts came together after seeing your comment. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 07:57, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Right, gotcha. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:58, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A quick perusal of box office records, whether it's overall gross, opening weekend, whatever, shows an undeniable and marked trend of recentism, to the point that this is the second time we've had a biggest opening weekend this year. Further, I dare say that it's a small minority of moviegoers whose chief interest in a film is the income it generates for its owners, and that most just want to see and talk about the movie. I'm fine with record trivia, and I'm fine with regularly posting something that fate has decreed be the flavor of the month (such as the run of horse race blurbs earlier this year), but it must be pointed out that to no small degree, sales records are "in the news" because the news is owned by the same people who make and sell other media such as films and records, and even unaffiliated outlets cover entertainment news that we wouldn't touch ITN. In short, I believe the argument via "everybody's talking about it" is discounted as entertainment news, and the argument via trivia record is weak since it's broken with increasing regularity, indicating an underlying bias to the record itself. - OldManNeptune 08:02, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I will submit that I have personal bias in this instance, so my view could very easily be clouded by the Dark Side my personal enjoyment of the franchise. It's quite possible that Disney's ownership of multiple media outlets is a key reason why the sales of this movie are getting such widespread attention. While the record itself may be increasingly common, this particular instance stands out as it was achieved without China being part of the picture. China accounted for $99.15 million of Jurassic World's opening weekend sales, roughly 18–19% of the global total, for example. Basically just playing with numbers at this point, but that shows how monumental the sales, and by extension public interest, have been. This particular blurb serves as the most viable way, in my opinion, to reflect the huge attention the movie has received. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 08:19, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
List of highest-grossing openings for films#Biggest worldwide opening weekends since 2002 shows the record was broken in November 2003, December 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011, June 2015. It's the second record this year but only the fifth in the last decade. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:16, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I happened to be in Leicester Square in the aftermath of the premiere – lots of people wandering around with light sabres, &c. But such premieres are routine events and their box office records tend to be an artifact of inflation. There's also a trend of global releases to beat piracy and so first-week sales are not comparable over time. As for it being in the news, that's a consequence of marketing and promotion but Disney doesn't need any more free publicity. The clincher is that Wikipedia has an overt policy of publishing spoilers without warning readers. Let's not go spoiling childrens' Christmas, please. Andrew D. (talk) 09:46, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose So far this is not the highest grossing film of all time, like Avatar. If this happens, then yes, but so far it's a vanity fair feeding on media hype. Brandmeistertalk 11:43, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait to see if it breaks the total takings record. First weekend is just marketing puff. If/when it breaks the overall record then we can post (though ticket price inflation makes that an ever-easier target). Modest Genius talk 11:54, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - very noteworthy and fun news. --BabbaQ (talk) 12:08, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    There's no denying that it's of note, but since when did "fun news" become part of the ITN process? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:35, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A fun-duh-mental misconception, to be sure. Sca (talk) 22:46, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] FIFA bans

[edit]
Articles: Sepp Blatter (talk · history · tag) and Michel Platini (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Sepp Blatter and Michel Platini, the suspended presidents of FIFA and UEFA respectively, are banned from association football for eight years amid the 2015 FIFA corruption case. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Sepp Blatter and Michel Platini, the suspended presidents of FIFA and UEFA respectively, are banned from association football for eight years amid the 2015 FIFA corruption case.
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Nominator's comments: I can see that dissenters will be well within their rights to see this story as the nail in the coffin for something we've known about for ages now. But it is the top story on the New York Times, which suggests a reach beyond the sports pages. The (suspended) chief executive of the global board for the world's most popular sport, and his equivalent in said sport's wealthiest and most influential continental branch, have been banned from that sport for eight years. '''tAD''' (talk) 12:29, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Easily passes the notability threshold. And I don't see the resemblance to the Patriots "Deflategate" case. Here we're talking about top level executives being banned for years. --bender235 (talk) 15:42, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • The ban is by the organization they were part of, so it's all internal proceedings and nothing to do with the external ongoing legal case, which is of significantly more importance and interest. --MASEM (t) 16:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think that's subjective. The fact that Blatter will not be president any longer and that strong favourite Platini will also not be able to run for nearly a decade, that's interesting. The "external" legal aspects surrounding Platini and Blatter may well fizzle out to nothing. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Affects a sport of exceptional international notability. "Deflategate" huh? Why the comparison to a parochial regional sport?--WaltCip (talk) 17:19, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's only parochial because the US has one country and Europe has 50 countries even though you need territory near Chelyabinsk to even equal our size. Also, 15-20% of one NFL team's attendance lives in Canada despite it being like rugby league region Brits attending union in the union part. (this only counts games in the US, they also played regular season games in Toronto with a higher percent of Canadians). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:23, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • The comparison is to basically say this is not a legally-binding restriction, only contractually. It is a group setting a contractually-related restriction on what two people that belong(ed) to that group can or can't do. Whether that group was NFL or FIFA, it is primarily an internal matter, even if it happens to be something that reflects a sport across 50 counties. Moreso on the FIFA case because we also are fully aware of a larger legally-binding investigation that is going on that may be much more damaging to FIFA and/or individuals involved, which the results of that investigation (even if it ends up with FIFA being cleared of wrongdoing) is the normal place we point ITN stories. --MASEM (t) 20:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support regarding notability. FIFA is a major international organization, with the budget and political clout of a small country. This is effectively an impeachment story. --LukeSurl t c 17:56, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
wait theyre surely going to appeal it to CAS...Balatter has indicated as much (implicitly)Lihaas (talk) 20:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Do you realize how long that will probably take?--WaltCip (talk) 20:23, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Whats your point?
This decision is not yet final until the appeals procedures are done. (and it wont be more than sa few months...itf it taken)Lihaas (talk) 20:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In the unlikely event it's overturned, ITN could post an update. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots20:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
An overturn would be phenomenally notable. Probably in the same league as Dzokhar Tsarnaev having his death sentence quashed '''tAD''' (talk) 21:43, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Shall we use a photo of Blatter or Platini? I can't report the current photo as error yet. --George Ho (talk) 01:06, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting Oppose Neither the blurb nor the votes cast here explain notability. Who among our readership does this impact? Do FIFA fans watch association football for these guys? Does their ban somehow put a new spin on a story that we've now posted updates to several times? The majority of support votes cast here seem to be explaining the notability of soccer, which seems hardly relevant to the notability of this particular story given that it's not fundamentally a sports story, but a business/legal one. Potatoes are also very popular internationally, but I doubt that would be seen as a good reason in and of itself to post the firing of the CEO of a potato distributor (which might be notable for other reasons, but not because Americans and Europeans alike love potatoes). The blurb certainly doesn't clarify why this matters; as it reads, they were already suspended, now they're told not to come back (for eight years? Wouldn't most people be told to go away indefinitely?)? So what? No impact on anyone except those two individuals is evident from the blurb. - OldManNeptune 07:01, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Well these people have or could have been responsible for deciding the locations of World Cups which is obviously important to hundreds of millions of football fans. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:34, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Fair point, though this certainly isn't obvious from the blurb - and it's maybe the first reason why this matters that's been brought up. It's not that I could not be convinced that this is notable, but that no good reasons seem to have been given. Indeed, though I support sports being ITN, reasons like "FIFA has a nation-sized economy hence this is practically a head of state"...do not lend an air of credibility to an argument. - OldManNeptune 07:45, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's rare for a sport's main guy to be driven from office. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots11:27, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 20

[edit]
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economics

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

[Posted] 2015 Shenzhen landslide

[edit]
Article: 2015 Shenzhen landslide (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Shenzhen, China, 85 people are missing after a landslide destroys 33 buildings. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Shenzhen, China, after a landslide destroys 33 buildings, seven are rescued, while 85 people are missing.
News source(s): (CNN), (BBC), CCTV news
Credits:

 Jenda H. (talk) 18:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Article: 2015 World Women's Handball Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In handball, Norway won against the Netherlands to gain their third title. (Post)
Credits:

 EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 10:59, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Another editor has 'noted for the record' that this women's event is not on WP:ITN/R, although the Men's event is (this means that the Men's event automatically gets reported in In The News, but the women's event need not be mentioned, as is also the case with many other sports). I also note for the record that we are asked at the top of this page "Please do not... oppose an item because it is not on WP:ITN/R", though "noting for the record" presumably does not officially count as opposition. The same editor also asks whether there is any evidence that the item is in the news. I expect there's plenty of news about it in Norway, and probably also the Netherlands and some other countries, but not much in the English-speaking world, where there is little interest in handball (either men's or women's - and where I come from, 'handball' refers to a completely different game, Gaelic handball). As such, the inclusion or rejection of this item (as well as the arguable double-standard in WP:ITN/R for this and many other sports) seems to call for comment from the 'experts' in such areas as Wikipedia's policies on gender equality and on countering 'Anglo-centrism'. As I know little about either of these policies I have requested comments from the Gender equality task force here, and I would have asked for a similar comment from their 'Anglo-centrism' counterparts if only I knew where to find them. Meanwhile, in the absence of such comments, I currently know too little about these policies to use them as grounds for either supporting or opposing this item (and I have too little interest in either handball or ITN to support or oppose the item on other grounds).Tlhslobus (talk) 05:45, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Currently no text update in the article covering the final (and also the "road to the final" is basically a list of game statistic charts). SpencerT♦C 20:03, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article is currently in no better condition than the men's equivalent, which failed to make it to the main page earlier this year. BencherliteTalk 08:43, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose article contains basically no prose. We ordinarily look for a "final" summary if not a final article. The target page is far from suitable for main page inclusion. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:23, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Slovenian same-sex marriage referendum, 2015

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Slovenian same-sex marriage referendum, 2015 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In a referendum, Slovenia rejects the recognition of same-sex marriage. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In a referendum, Slovenia overturns an amendment to the Marriage and Family Relations Act, rejecting the recognition of same-sex marriage, following the court decision that such a referendum are legal, despite the legislature banning the referendum on the grounds that "it would violate constitutional provision which prohibits popular votes on laws eliminating an unconstitutionality in the field of human rights and fundamental freedoms".
Alternative blurb II: ​ In a referendum, Slovenia overturns an amendment to the Marriage and Family Relations Act, rejecting the recognition of same-sex marriage.
News source(s): Reuters Associated Press
Credits:
 '''tAD''' (talk) 20:50, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note that blurbs are just that- blurbs- and are short. Your proposal would take up most of the ITN box and is far too detailed. That is not meant as an attack, it is just a fact. Do you have a shorter one to propose? Not every detail needs to be given. 331dot (talk) 22:13, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fairly over it at this point, it's an obvious WP:SNOW close, and the hostility palpable. Jayron recently highlighted that "is of interest to or readers", or "smaller than Ireland" or whatever, while in good faith, are not criteria for posting. I also think that "nothing happened" is an over simplification, since what actually happened was a national referendum to defeat a bill which had previously legalized same sex marriage. I think maybe ITN has become mired in "precedent" and unwritten "rules", leaving it ok for a stale story about municipal elections to stay around for five days. The standby argument "if you don't like it, improve and nominate stories" don't prove out when someone does and it's shot down within hours as "booo, nothing happened". shrugs maybe it's better this way? I don't know. Thanks for trying to help 331dot. --68.115.239.114 (talk) 00:42, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ireland legalized SSM by referendum, which had not been done before. The US doing so (by a court ruling) was the end of a years-long process in a large country, which was newsworthy most of the time. Europe is friendlier to SSM so even if Slovenia had legalized it, I'm not sure it would be notable. 331dot (talk) 21:54, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Slovenia is too small of a country to make its issue on SSM newsworthy? If not, how is Slovenia not on the same scale as other countries? George Ho (talk) 21:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm saying that other countries(such as Ireland) beat Slovenia to the punch. SSM is common in Europe now. 331dot (talk) 22:03, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Western Europe, yes. Eastern, no, including Russia. Look at the map. George Ho (talk) 22:13, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Slovenia is an EU member where pro-legal SSM is common. 331dot (talk) 22:20, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How does being an EU member outweigh geopolitics? Is SSM new or interesting anymore? George Ho (talk) 22:32, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure it does but the point that outweighs that is that this is not in the news. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:42, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to oppose this just because of the status quo or not being in the news. But I can't overpower the majority here or influence it. I really wish they supported this instead of UK coal mining. We can feature Slovenia's legalization of SSM if it happens... George Ho (talk) 23:13, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A part of a country wanting to be its own country and failing in the attempt is a very different matter. That also got much more attention than this. News coverage of this from what I can see seems limited, as well. 331dot (talk) 00:58, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Referendums are rare by nature, and only called when the matter is of great national interest, so I don't agree that the independence referendum is that much different from this one. What you see of news coverage may be limited, but that might be because of where you are geographically. We regularly feature things which don't appear in local news: of the currently-featured items, did you see much coverage of the Burundi unrest, for example? Banedon (talk) 01:05, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Referendums are not rare where I come from(I've written articles about a few, if you wish to look at my userpage) though I concede none are national. I understand news coverage is somewhat geography-dependent, but I'm not seeing this in many outlets at all, and where I do it is buried. I did indeed see the Burundi situation. 331dot (talk) 01:10, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If we believe the referendum page, there have been ~500 referendums since the 18th century of which some 60% was held in Switzerland. There are ~200 countries in the world, so unless you're from Switzerland, they are rare once-in-a-lifetime events. Burundi unrest was an example as well: I did not see it in local news. Banedon (talk) 01:45, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Coverage or no coverage, huge or not, we should not avoid posting this, like mainstream press has treating news from such countries. Also, attention is needed. Even as a status quo, one small country's rejection to SSM may influence other countries, big or small, to follow the same path. Other countries refusing to recognize per referenda or court ruline is newsworthy, even when the press doesn't emphasize it that much. George Ho (talk) 01:15, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Put it in a letter to the editor. Sca (talk) 01:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is In The News, not "Things Some Wikipedia Editors Think Are Important". News coverage is very relevant; we are not here to right wrongs or otherwise draw attention to issues. Please provide evidence of your claim that this rejection will influence other countries 331dot (talk) 01:22, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It really sucks, George. But you don't get to push this through just because it affects a group of people you identify with. If it gets coverage, it'll likely get in. If quick enough, anyways. Correctron (talk) 07:04, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Even if this had passed, I don't think we should be posting every country which catches up with the zeitgeist on this issue. Gay marriage is now the norm in liberal democracies. The fact that the change failed just makes it even less noteworthy. Modest Genius talk 14:26, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of Earth size, the area of liberal democracies in Europe is... small, no matter how many countries... Or maybe I was measuring areas of the continent accepting SSM. --George Ho (talk) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] Spanish elections

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Spanish general election, 2015 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The People's Party, led by Mariano Rajoy (pictured), gains the most seats in the Spanish general election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The People's Party, led by Mariano Rajoy (pictured), gains plurality in the Spanish general election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In the Spanish general election, the ruling People's Party, led by Mariano Rajoy (pictured), loses one third of its seats, but remains the largest single party.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Following the Spanish general election, the shape of the next government remains uncertain as the ruling People's Party, led by Mariano Rajoy (pictured), loses one third of its seats, but remains the largest single party.
News source(s): RT, RTE, Sky News
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Based on exit polls. Fuebaey (talk) 19:41, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally, if necessary for the sake of keeping it short, we can drop ", led by Mariano Rajoy (pictured)," - it's not news who the current PM is, and anybody who wants to know that can check the article.Tlhslobus (talk) 07:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Done that for you, Tlhslobus. George Ho (talk) 07:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, George Ho. Tlhslobus (talk) 08:05, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Support posting ASAP, preferably with altblurbs 2 or 3, but I don't want to see a delay caused by a dispute over the ideal blurb. At least in my opinion, the article is already sufficiently ready to be posted, and any further delay over relatively unimportant technicalities does a disservice to our readers (of a kind which has seriously irritated me in at least one previous election). Tlhslobus (talk) 08:05, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support - seconded. I'd prefer blurb 2, but any of the blurbs is better than none. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 09:38, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Roentgenium111, just to clarify your stated preference for our admins, by "blurb 2", do you mean alternative blurb 2, or alternative blurb 1 (which is the second blurb, the first blurb being the original blurb, without the 'alternative' tag)? Tlhslobus (talk) 11:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the confusion. I meant alternative blurb 2. FWIW, I wouldn't mind dropping the "Rajoy" part from it, either.--Roentgenium111 (talk) 15:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 19

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International relations
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Politics and elections

[Closed] RD: Greville Janner, Baron Janner of Braunstone

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Greville Janner, Baron Janner of Braunstone (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: A baron and well renowned figure in Holocaust education in UK. Former MP. Article in good condition. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:36, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have no opinion on the nomination, but my understanding, @Mjroots: is that WP:BLP applies here, and such accusations are out of line. μηδείς (talk) 20:25, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Publicity concerns are also irrelevant; we don't censor content because it might given bad people attention(speaking generally and is not necessarily a comment on this person, per BLP). 331dot (talk) 20:29, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The accusation is well-founded. The only reason he escaped prosecution in the first place is that local CPS officers failed to consult with their seniors before deciding not to prosecute. A later attempt to prosecute failed due to him developing Alzheimer's Disease, although a trial of facts was scheduled to have been heard in 2016. I still say that we should not give this person the publicity of appearing on MP. There are far more worthy candidates currently being discussed. Mjroots (talk) 20:31, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If we post people like Osama Bin Laden, I don't see why this person shouldn't be considered. Again, publicity concerns are irrelevant. Almost every article subject or person here is offensive to someone; very little would be on the MP if we start getting into that sort of debate.331dot (talk) 20:46, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Bin Laden was at the top of his field, and internationally known. I doubt that Janner was widely known outside the UK. Given the comments above and below, further Oppose on the grounds that he is not notable enough to appear on RD. Mjroots (talk) 21:02, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose solely on the grounds that this person does not appear to meet the bar for RD. !Votes which are based on personal feelings about this individual should be discounted. Gamaliel (talk) 20:34, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose - Agree, even child molesters may meet RD standards... well, not blurbs. However, he was just a low-level politician, even when he served many years as one. George Ho (talk) 20:41, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Whether he did the crimes or not is irrelevant, as we would also include Gaddafi, Bin Laden or Kim Jong-il in recent deaths. However, Janner was an MP who was active in British Jewish affairs, not a major political or religious leader. '''tAD''' (talk) 20:43, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose as this person does not seem to meet the RD criteria, one of the only things that really matters for this discussion's purposes(aside from quality and news sources). 331dot (talk) 20:47, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Kurt Masur

[edit]
Article: Kurt Masur (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well known classical music conductor. Former music director of the New York Philharmonic and the Orchestre National de France, and lead conductor of the London Philharmonic Orchestra. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 16:49, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Jimmy Hill

[edit]
Article: Jimmy Hill (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Hill was a highly prominent football personality, who took a wide range of roles in his career. His death might even warrant a blurb. EternalNomad (talk) 14:38, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Mother Teresa to be sainted

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Mother Teresa (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Mother Teresa will be posthumously canonized as a saint following Pope Francis recognizing her intercession in a second miracle. (Post)
News source(s): WAPost, NPR, CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: I recognize the importance of this but I'm not of that religion so I would appreciate any necessary corrections in the blurb. While the canonization date is not yet set (it is expected to be on the anniversary of her death in Sept next year), this seems to be the point of news to start with. MASEM (t) 03:31, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait? I dunno, I'm not of that religion, either. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:49, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • If posted the blurb shouldn't treat the miracles as real because only believing Catholics think that. That the two miracles never seem to not be a medical cure unless it's the 1400s or something is telling. Not even devout Protestants believe in praying for medical cures to deceased good people. But it's a religion so don't say that they're fake, obviously. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:32, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - Oh, boy. I initially want to oppose this, but the postings of posthumous apology and pardon given to Alan Turing gave me second thoughts. If we made Turing's deserved pardon ITN, making this woman the "saint" can be ITN also. Somewhat predictable, but at least this is more newsworthy than exoplanet naming and deep coal mining in the UK. --George Ho (talk) 04:57, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't look at the tense very well, so changing to wait until this actually happens. George Ho (talk) 10:02, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Isn't canonization always posthumous? I don't think we need to state that in the blurb. 331dot (talk) 09:03, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this will be genuinely headline news when it actually happens. While it's noted variously at the moment, the pomp and circumstance that will no doubt surround the canonisation itself means I would support the event itself rather than this, the announcement that the event should be taking place in the future. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:42, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. As TRM states, this will be big news when it actually happens(even though it also is now) so we should wait until it does. 331dot (talk) 09:44, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 18

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  • In the United States, a group of hospitals, 32 in 15 states, agree to pay a total of $28 million to settle charges they submitted false claims to Medicare for a type of spinal fracture treatment. This is the latest settlement stemming from a decade-old whistleblower lawsuit about alleged inappropriate billing for kyphoplasty. More than 130 hospitals have paid about $105 million to settle billing claims from this spinal procedure. (Reuters) (The Arizona Republic)
Movies
Politics and elections

RD: Léon Mébiame

[edit]
Article: Léon Mébiame (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Agence Gabonaise de Presse (fr)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Long-serving Prime Minister of Gabon in 1975–90. Before then, the Vice President of Gabon in 1968–75. Afterwards, he had been a politician in other fields. I could say authoritarian political figure, but that would be one-sided. George Ho (talk) 06:57, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] End of deep coal mining in UK

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Articles: Coal_mining_in_the_United_Kingdom (talk · history · tag) and Kellingley Colliery (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Deep coal mining ceases in the United Kingdom with the closure of Kellingley Colliery. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Deep coal mining, which had powered the industrial revolution in the UK, ceases with the closure of Kellingley Colliery.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Deep coal mining, essential to the British industrial revolution, ceases in the UK with the closure of Kellingley Colliery.
News source(s): Guardian, NUM News
Credits:

Both articles need updating
Nominator's comments: Deep coal mining in the UK was one of the cornerstones of the industrial revolution and the UK's subsequent dominance in the 19th century. The closure of the last working pit seems like a significant event. yorkshiresky (talk) 10:23, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support Articles are interesting and of high quality. Event is clearly happening within the time frame of ITN, and reported in news sources. --Jayron32 12:50, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support Something a bit different for ITN – the success of films like Billy Elliot and Pride show that this is a topic that people are interested in. Smurrayinchester 13:29, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, just some more text would be helpful. --Tone 14:15, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose, though perhaps leaning more on support, as there still remain open coal mines; this is just the closure of the one that required underground excavation to get to. I do agree that that end of the coal industry in the UK in general is a major story, but I'm not 100% sure if this is the right point. --MASEM (t) 15:06, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • If there wasn't much non-deep coal mining in Britain's Industrial Revolution then that would matter less, wouldn't it? Now was there much non-deep coal mining? I don't know. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:17, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Using our articles, deep coal mining peaked in the 40s at 287 million tons/yr, while currently open pit mining is at 10 mill tons/yr. I have no idea how much this last deep coal mine was producing but I doubt is it is much more than 10 mill tons/yr. My point, and I welcome arguments to it, is that coal mining still occurs in UK, just not by sending people underground to get it. --MASEM (t) 15:23, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Additional comment based on what I'm reading below and what's in the article: The article does not reflect how "important" the deep coal mining industry was to UK nor do I have a good handle to judge. I'm looking for a monetary figure, for example, that relates to how many millions or billions or trillions of pounds (GBP, not mass) that the industry was valued at its heyday. I look at this as the end of a business model that isn't sustainable in the present environment, much like the closure of the last Blockbuster signaled the end of the video rental market. It's a milestone, it should be documented, but that Blockbuster event would definitely not be ITN given that its value was only about $8.4 billion at its height (a small drop in the bucket overall). If there was a better sense of proportion as to the impact. (The only numbers on there that are close to this is the employment graph that shows it used to operate 1+ million employees... but so do a lot of other industries). --MASEM (t) 01:00, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Rainproof purple clothes for instance were expensive as shit before coal because it took 12,000 rare snails just to color the edges. If you had a purple shirt before coal you be pimpin'.
        Without coal, no Industrial Revolution (the first oil well wasn't drilled until 1859 and the other two fossil fuels remained bit players for long after that). Not only was coal the fuel but it was also needed to escape the Iron Age and make colorful clothes affordable and invent modern food coloring. (steel is much stronger than iron, the coal was heated in the absence of oxygen and turned into coke to add to the iron, and the witch's brew of tar and gas left over was separated into dyes etc. (many of which are now banned for causing cancer)). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:02, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Of course coal was important to the industrial revolution but at its highest point was in the 1950s, not the industrial revolution. England is not abandoning any coal mining. I'm asking specifically how significant the industry is to UK. Technology marches on and things change all the time, why is this so important? Right now, again, it feels like the ceremonial who's turning off the lights on an already empty party, and not ITN worthy. --MASEM (t) 03:20, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • Your claim that production peaked in the 1950s is wrong. It's been falling for like 110 years. Deep mined coal made Britain the most advanced nation in the world for most of the past 300 years and the UK is the country that started the whole industrialized thing so it's symbolic that the old fuel is now obsolete (or at least the way the vast majority of it was mined is). Apparently deep coal mining is just stereotypical coal mining of underground seams, I didn't even know that deep coal just meant underground and didn't have to be deep at all. So surface mining is and was very minor. About the 1.25 million workers in the mines That was in 1914 and would be a huge percentage of the workers in Britain. How many humans did Britain even have in 1914? 30-40 million probably? And women didn't work in them either then so that was a huge employer. Lastly, post because it's interesting and encycloped-y. It's much more timeless and "people would still care in 10 years" than many of the things we post. (not without an acceptable update of course) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:19, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support - article is good and well sourced. notable topic.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:34, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Amazing what happens when a country elects a new-look, progressive government. Wait, it didn't? That was Canada? Oh well. -Kudzu1 (talk) 16:58, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose UK is nowhere near the biggest CO2 producer, so I don't see how will this impact the world. How is this any more relevant than naming of exoplanets? Nergaal (talk) 17:07, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this has nothing whatsoever to do with CO2 production, nor is the "impact" on the "world" significant. This is the end of an era, as suitably noted in the nomination. If !voters can't be bothered to read and/or understand that, then their !votes can be justifiably discounted. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Technically it does have to do with CO2 production, as stated by the article: the UK has been transitioning to renewable and cleaner resources for many years, so the need for coal as a power source has been greatly diminished. And based on the graphs in our article on this, this era was over in 2012-ish, this is just the last deep coal mine closing, and mostly a symbolic aspect. There's still other types of coal mining in the UK but far from the capacity in the 40s. --MASEM (t) 17:58, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support given historical importance of British coal mining. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 18:21, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support – Historically interesting, although first target article contains only 15 words on the closure of Kellingley, the impetus for this nom. (Of course, there's more at Kellingley Colliery.)Sca (talk) 18:29, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Coincidentally, German Wiki carries an ITN item today on the closure of the second-to-last deep coalmine in the Ruhr. Sca (talk) 18:50, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Systemic. Not systematic.--WaltCip (talk) 19:29, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
D'oh. Thanks, you're right. Needed more coffee this morning. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:32, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Good morning, coffee cup, gimmie back my brain." (Slight modification to lyrics.) Sca (talk) 21:51, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, Muboshgu, you sound dead Brassed Off. 217.38.184.195 (talk) 21:52, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have any idea at all of the significance of deep coal mining in British industrial economic history? 217.38.184.195 (talk) 21:52, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It was significant, no doubt, but technically from our article, the industry was dead 3-4 years ago - this story is basically who's the last to turn the lights off. --MASEM (t) 21:57, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb - Interesting articles that are of good quality that signify the end of an era in British history, with international implications as renewable energy, uh, picks up steam. Clearly in the news, and in my view ITN-worthy per above supporters. Jusdafax 14:46, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Toppling the tipple? Sca (talk) 16:07, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support main blurb. The end of an entire industry is significant. Further details on the significance of coal mining in Britain can be found in the article. The purpose of ITN is to provide links to quality Wikipedia articles that are relevant to current events and this fits the bill. Good article. A current event connected to a broad and important historic topic. This is what Wikipedia can do well, as opposed to simply mimicking BBC, CNN etc.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:53, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
To make my above support broader, I'll support any of the blurbs. Jusdafax 15:46, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 17

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December 16

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Politics and elections

RD: Peter Dickinson

[edit]
Article: Peter Dickinson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Award-winning British author of mostly children's books and detective stories and poet. George Ho (talk) 07:03, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 15

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and medicine
International relations
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Science and technology

RD: Harry Zvi Tabor

[edit]
Article: Harry Zvi Tabor (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): YNET (he)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Award-winning Israeli physicist, also deemed the father of solar energy in Israel. George Ho (talk) 07:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Licio Gelli

[edit]
Article: Licio Gelli (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph BBC
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One of prominent figures in Italy. A fascist volunteer, a financier, and most influential individual in politics. George Ho (talk) 07:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Exoplanet names

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Exoplanet (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The IAU announces the first batch of exoplanet names. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The IAU gives first proper names to exoplanets.
News source(s): CBC, phys.org, space.com, MirrorDaily, TechTimes, ScientificAmerican, Science, [10]
Nominator's comments: Exoplanets are named by the IAU for the first time. Fdfexoex (talk) 12:23, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Less an ITN and more like a DYK (though I don't know if that article qualifies for a DYK slot). Regardless, naming of things already discovered isn't really significant, it would have been their discovery that would have been ITN. --MASEM (t) 15:30, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Not disagreeing with your oppose but on the ITNR list we note that both the discovery and naming of new chemical elements merit posting. 331dot (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There's probably two very good reasons why that's not a good analogy for this situation 1) the naming of an element occurs commensurate with the confirmation by the IUPAC of its valid discovery and characterization; which is different from the peer-reviewed publication of its discovery by those who did the discovery directly. So it isn't just the naming which is significant, and naming does not occur in a vacuum. That's different from the planet issue; the planets are positively confirmed, and the naming is an arbitrary thing. 2) There are over 2000 confirmed exoplanets, and we're discovering new ones at a pace more than one per day (though, of course, not steadily. These things tend to come in large batches). We have 118 discovered elements (of which 114 have gone through the formal characterization and naming procedure by IUPAC); with new elements being discovered and/or confirmed about once a year or less often. We can often go years without any news in this regard. The rarity itself is what makes it a newsworthy event; about 10 years ago, exoplanets could have been in that category, but thanks to advances in science, it has gone from a rare once-in-while thing to a common occurance. --Jayron32 16:05, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
To add, there is a potentially boundless number of exoplanets to be discovered (though obviously would require better astronomy equipment), while in terms of elements there is likely a finite bound, based on the fact that the 100+ atomic weight elements are very unstable (very short half-lives). To be able to hold and stabilize a 100+ element long enough to quantify and verify its existence needed to be naming is a significant event. --MASEM (t) 16:14, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
True, but this nomination isn't for an individual exoplanet, but for all of them. Banedon (talk) 03:00, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This nom is the first set of official namings. If no chemical elements would have name and hydrogen would suddenly get an official name, that would definitely be newsworthy. Nergaal (talk) 18:11, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm having a hard time finding information about the nominated new event in the article. I don't see a list of the new names for example. What has been updated? (or hasn't it?) Thanks. MurielMary (talk) 16:41, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The list of new names is at Exoplanet#Proper names Fdfexoex (talk) 17:05, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers. MurielMary (talk) 22:42, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You have missed my point. The IAU and what army? Since you mention Saturn (rather than Georgium Sidus), what do they call Saturn in Malay? This is basically a bunch of self appointed bureaucrats giving "official" names to things they will never visit because that's what bureaucracies do. I won't even go into the amateur anglo-occidento-centric fanboyism of it all. μηδείς (talk) 20:17, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Planets named Quixote, Pancho, Rocinante and Dulcinea? This sounds like an entry from National Lampoon. Or from the same geniuses who decided that Pluto is not a planet. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots01:52, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Baseball Bugs, there's a reason why the names are so stupid. It's because this happened. While the link exaggerates this is how the names were actually chosen. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:01, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • But only slightly. I'm surprised they didn't go for Santa's reindeer, or Snow White's dwarfs. Or, the names of the guys who decided Pluto is not a planet. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots08:26, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Okay, but the general public is to blame for this, too. And the reason why Pluto was demoted is because Eris (discovered 2005) is more massive and about the same size so would have to be a planet too. Or if you say anything round from gravity is a planet so Pluto can stay then Ceres (the asteroid), Makemake, Haumea and Eris are planets and Orcus, 2002 MS4, Salacia, Quaoar, 2007 OR10 and Sedna are nearly certainly planets and there'd be 97 known things which are at least probably planets and 398 bodies which are at least possibly planets. Pluto was thought to be much bigger for many years (Earth-sized at first) until we learned the Neptune pull was human error instead of Pluto's gravity (the prediction worked by sheer coincidence). The IAU is still the union of astronomers worldwide so they get to name (the "Pluto is a planet" astronomers were in the minority and got outvoted). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:15, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • It's not unusual for bureaucrats and politicians to redefine a word to make it match their biases. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:56, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
            • Ya, I'd just call dwarf planets a class of planet instead of saying that dwarf adjectiving "planet" is not planet by definition. Sometimes, words have multiple meanings. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:27, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
              • Scientists ought not be using ambiguous terms. And they've gone way beyond what the word "planet" actually meant, which is "wandering star".[11] The term "asteroid" is likewise dubious, as it means "star-like", which they ain't. The alternate term "minor planets" is only slightly better. And "comet" means "long-haired star", which is also wrong. And classifying makes sense. They do call Mercury, Venus, Earth/Moon and Mars "rocky planets", while Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are "gas giant (planets". The rocky planets are tiny compared with those, yet they're not called "dwarf" planets. Why? Maybe because we live on one of them. Although we've known for centuries that we are not the center of the universe, we still act like we are. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots18:13, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Full support I was initially skeptical, but this is the first time exoplanets are officially assigned non-technical terms. Some dames might appear funny, but it is in no way different from say Makemake or Meitnerium. There are over 1000 accepted well-established exoplanets, and if all of them are going to be named, some will get weird name. This is the first step. We don't need to post future namings, but we should definitely post the first ones. Nergaal (talk) 18:06, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose this is trivia, DYK is appropriate here. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:02, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Okay, stars have been named since time immemorial. This is the first time though that planets outside of our star system have had names, planets that are actually small enough to have life and worlds that humans could live on with a gas mask at most that we can't go to for centuries. That planets are being given names that are not like ROXs 42Bb for the first time is something that'll never happen again. I wish the names could sound more planet-like though. Vulcan, Cardassia, Romulus, Osiris IV, Coruscant, Arrakis, Helion Prime, Rigel 7, Crematoria (for a planet that melts near noon, now those sound like planet names. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:46, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've added altblurb to show what exactly we are looking at. Brandmeistertalk 09:45, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as trivial. Discovering these things was significant, but finally running the first batch through an official naming process is not. This is equivalent to the first official names of surface features on Pluto, and I'm sure we won't be posting that when it happens (probably during 2016). Modest Genius talk 13:00, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
you are comparing an actual planet to some cracks on a dwarf planet. Nergaal (talk) 15:39, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We know more about Sputnik Planum than the vast majority of exoplanets, including most of those receiving names here. I don't see why size or distance are relevant. Modest Genius talk 20:46, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] US schools terrorist threat

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Nominator's comments: Numerous school districts were emailed terrorist threats mentioning Islam today and the LA public school system closed all 1,124 schools (640,000 children) for one day while it searches them. (The San Bernardino attacks were in the same broad metro area) He did claim to be a student in each of his many boilerplate emails though (one to each city's school district) so one at most could be real. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:11, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Posted] Soyuz TMA-19M/Expedition 46

[edit]
Articles: Soyuz TMA-19M (talk · history · tag) and Tim Peake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Soyuz TMA-19M is launched to the International Space Station (Post)
Alternative blurb: Tim Peake becomes the first British ESA astronaut with the launch of Soyuz TMA-19M to the International Space Station
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Smurrayinchester 11:19, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support in principle original blurb, oppose any mention of Tim Peake. He's not the first British astronaut (see Helen Sharman and Category:British astronauts) and there's no reason to single him out. Nor is he the first UKSA astronaut - the UKSA does not train astronauts, he's flying with ESA. The mission itself is routine, but we're in a quiet period and it wouldn't hurt to put it on ITN. ISS crew rotation flights continue to qualify as ITNR, for reasons which elude me, but there you go. However the article is rubbish - one paragraph plus a table. If someone turns it into something we might want to feature on the MP then it would be suitable. Modest Genius talk 11:55, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
When was the last routine ISS flight that we posted? 331dot (talk) 12:03, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No idea. I've repeatedly argued that ITNR should be written in a way that excludes them, but consensus has consistently been against me. Modest Genius talk 12:23, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC calls Peake the "first official UK astronaut". [12] 331dot (talk) 12:05, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Strange definition of 'official'. I don't think we have to follow media claims if they are blatantly untrue and contradicted by numerous other sources e.g. this Independent article specifically on the topic. Modest Genius talk 12:23, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well that article isn't "numerous other sources" and it doesn't "contradict" anything that's being said, and the BBC aren't saying anything that is "blatantly untrue". Other than that, everything you've said is right. Just tonight, we have the BBC saying "Tim Peake is the UK's first official astronaut and the first British astronaut to go to the International Space Station. However, he is not the first Briton in space. According to the British Interplanetary Society, he is the seventh person born in the UK to have left the planet." per this article. Hopefully that helps. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:35, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's worth arguing about this tangential point, but I stand by my comments. Modest Genius talk 12:12, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine with me; just pointing out where the claim came from. 331dot (talk) 12:29, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle per Modest Genius. Launching of spaceflights is significant and also a fine ITN material. I oppose mentioning Tim Peake in the blurb, as he is not the first British in space.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:24, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle and I think this is one of those rare cases in which we can say that the so-called reliable source is false in its assumption that Peake is the first British in space.--WaltCip (talk) 12:29, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - but agree that the article is extremely short and needs proper expansion. Neutral on the other issues. Jusdafax 14:35, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and almost ready to post. Right now there's everything in there that's relevant. And it's sourced. And the whole "first British astronaut" thing isn't relevant, so I'd say we're pretty much good to go per ITNR. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:21, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, it's ITN/R so the conversation stops there. Regarding Time Peake in particular I'd let it through given the amount of interest it has created, only Helen Sharman previously is unambiguously British as opposed to riding on the coattails of another nationality. "British funded", "state-sponsored" astronaut or some equivalent formulation would succinctly and correctly disambiguate the situation, readers can always click through for more. Justin Urquhart Stewart (talk) 01:08, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. --Tone 09:43, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 14

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economics

Disasters and accidents

Health and medicine

Law and crime

Science

[Posted to RD]: Lillian Vernon

[edit]
Article: Lillian Vernon (businesswoman) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes ABC news NYTimes article repeated in San Francisco Gate Bloomberg Business CNN Money Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Woman who fled Nazi Germany as a child, built up catalogue shopping empire in the US. MurielMary (talk) 17:05, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support on article improvements Importance seems clear, there's a couple sections of the article (the Lillian Vernon House, and Awards) that need a tad more sources or CN's removed, but it is not too far away. --MASEM (t) 17:10, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for pointing that out, have fixed. MurielMary (talk) 17:23, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 13

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Benedict Anderson

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Article: Benedict Anderson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New Republic Associated Press
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Renowned academic and political scientist best known for Imagined Communities. Quite a background: born in what was then the Republic of China to parents from Ireland and England, raised in the United States, studied in Ireland and the United Kingdom, lived in Indonesia and in the United States during his exile from that country. Kudzu1 (talk) 04:03, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, the books seems like it might be interesting. I won't support, but I'll withdraw my opposition. μηδείς (talk) 18:24, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry, Smerdis, but you can't simultaneously embiggen the mind of the smallest man while killing the human spirit at the same time. The article's expansion, however, is worth support. μηδείς (talk) 22:19, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: There's a big fat orange level maintenance tag at the top of the article, right now, had it not been there, I'd have already posted this. If it were entirely invalid, I'd have removed it, but there are sections that lack references, mostly dealing with summaries of his works (which are tacitly assumed to be referenced to the work itself). If someone else who knows the subject more intimately can decide to remove the tag, OR can fix the problems so the tag is no longer justified, I would post this. But I cannot do so now, no matter how many pile on supports we have. --Jayron32 15:56, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I've re-written/sourced what I could from what I could find and removed the tag. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 10:10, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted good work on the updates Patar knight. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:39, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 12

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Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

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Sports

[Closed] RD: Evelyn Lieberman

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Article: Evelyn Lieberman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Statement from the White House NY Times Washington Post NY Times article repeated in Boston Globe
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Known for her role in the Monica Lewinsky affair, but also had a much wider influential career in government in Washington; head of broadcaster Voice of America; more recently, chief spokesperson for the Smithsonian. MurielMary (talk) 17:55, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] UFC: McGregor defeats Aldo

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: UFC 194 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In mixed martial arts, Conor McGregor defeats José Aldo and becomes the UFC Featherweight Champion. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In mixed martial arts, Conor McGregor defeats José Aldo in 13 seconds and becomes the UFC Featherweight Champion.
News source(s): [14] [15] [16] [17] [18]
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Aldo was the reigning champion in the UFC Featherweight division and had not lost in over a decade (and was undefeated in the UFC). He was widely regarded as one of the best MMA fighters of all-time. McGregor KOed him in 13 seconds. The hype and trash-talk surrounding this fight was unprecedented in MMA. McGregor became a sensation in Ireland and throughout the MMA community (and beyond) for his trash-talking and his knockout power. He is widely regarded as one of the most marketable figures in the UFC, and this will only catapult him to even more popularity. I believe this fight should be posted because it also marks a shift in the MMA world. Ronda Rousey was KOed not so long ago, and now Aldo's reign was taken down by McGregor. ComputerJA () 07:50, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] Women in Saudi Arabia vote for the first time

[edit]
Articles: Women's rights in Saudi Arabia (talk · history · tag) and Saudi Arabian municipal elections, 2015 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Saudi Arabia, women vote for the first time in elections. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Saudi Arabia, women vote in municipal elections for the first time.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Saudi Arabia holds its first elections open to women.
News source(s): BBC Reuters Fortune
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Not sure which article is best to update for the target (maybe both?) - Women's rights in Saudi Arabia or Saudi Arabian municipal elections, 2015?? MurielMary (talk) 01:35, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On the other hand, there are also people who think it is "historic change" (same quote). Any kind of change has to start somewhere. Banedon (talk) 05:02, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
ALTBLURB/wait local election when notable in such instances are important (see longest elected communist govt losing power in Bengal 4 or so years ago). Still wait to see the results and the first women elected.Lihaas (talk) 04:10, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What does the USA have to do with anything? The fight for same sex marriage rights was and remains extremely difficult. I'm not saying that this event isn't significant, I'm just wondering what the USA has to do with it. --166.172.58.234 (talk) 03:11, 14 December 2015 (UTC) 166.172.58.234 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
The New York Times reports that 20 women have been elected to local government seats: [20] Can the blurb be updated with some numbers? 217.38.114.189 (talk) 22:16, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Take it to WP:ERRORS which will likely get more attention. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:35, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
PULL This article was so not ready for posting. Has anyone even looked at it? Correctron (talk) 23:53, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What are you talking about? The Rambling Man (talk) 07:41, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
S/He does have a point: where is the five sentence update? Justin Urquhart Stewart (talk) 01:14, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Approximately half of the text in the bolded article Saudi Arabian municipal elections, 2015 is about the voting by and for females, which is the relevant newsworthy fact for this story. --Jayron32 02:57, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Then why does the article state repeatedly the elections are being contested? The blurb is after the fact and the article must reflect that. Where is the update? Justin Urquhart Stewart (talk) 03:18, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are you reading the linked article? It is all written in the past tense. I don't know what article you are reading, but the one highlighted on the main page is adequately updated. If another article is not, you are also allowed to fix it. No one here will stop you. --Jayron32 05:16, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] COP 21

[edit]
Articles: 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference (talk · history · tag) and Paris Agreement (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A deal is agreed at COP21 to attempt to limit the rise in global temperatures by 2°C (3.6°F). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ XXX countries reach a deal on the next legally binding greenhouse gas treaty.
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The deal is the first to commit all countries to cut carbon emissions. Jolly Ω Janner 18:58, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The blurb might as well say they defined pi as 3 while they were at it. An altblurb reflecting facts, not wishes, is in order. μηδείς (talk) 02:38, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I also strongly recommend the main blurb over the alt blurb. Mamyles (talk) 02:42, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is why I mentioned we should add "try to limit" to the main blurb, as that's how the BBC reports it. Laws can't change fundamental laws of nature regardless how much some politicians would want that. --MASEM (t) 02:53, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've changed the main blurb to say "attempt". Jolly Ω Janner 03:15, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why single the US out? It only contributes 15% of greenhouse gas emissions.
China too I suppose. Two largest.Lihaas (talk) 04:08, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Combined, that's still less than 40% of the global total. I think this proposal is just silly. Jolly Ω Janner 04:30, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, given that, as long as the worst polluters buy into it despite stonewalling by the US, then all should be well. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots04:43, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Undo...the bold article already links to he same thing.Lihaas (talk) 05:27, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

comment Shouldn t it be: limit (...) to 2 degrees, instead of by 2 degrees? L.tak (talk) 08:06, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Shaheen-III

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Article: Shaheen-III (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Pakistan successfully test fires medium range nuclear-capable Shaheen-III ballistic missile just days after hosting peace conference. (Post)
News source(s): Times of India, Voice of America, Toronto Star, Deutsche Welle
Credits:

Article updated
 198.16.164.205 (talk) 14:36, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Posted] Conor McGregor

[edit]
Proposed image
Articles: Conor McGregor (talk · history · tag) and UFC 194 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Conor McGregor (pictured) knocks out José Aldo in a record-setting 13 seconds at UFC 194 to become the second-ever UFC Featherweight Champion. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Conor McGregor (pictured) ends José Aldo's five-year UFC Featherweight Championship reign in 13 seconds at UFC 194.
Alternative blurb II: Conor McGregor (pictured) ends UFC Featherweight Champion José Aldo's ten-year winning streak in 13 seconds at UFC 194.
News source(s): The Independent News.com.au CBC Sports
Credits:

Nominator's comments: That was awesome. And historic, in a few ways. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:11, 13 December 2015 (UTC) 06:11, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's the 194th pay-per-view. There are a bunch of others on normal TV and online. This was actually the third in three days (a first). But there are only a handful of "big ones" like this each year. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:55, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are other championships, but this one was particularly prestigious for the length of the reign. Just had to correct myself in the blurb, it was five years, not four. This event was widely regarded in reliable sources as one of the biggest, in promotion and matchup quality, of the year (or longer). McGregor is widely regarded as the UFC's top star, along with Ronda Rousey. In this fight, he also won a spot on the UFC video game cover with her. That doesn't need to go in the blurb, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:51, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. (Reposting: I made the mistake of posting a blurb without noticing this one was here already). Aldo was the reigning champion in the UFC Featherweight division and had not lost in over a decade (and was undefeated in the UFC). He was widely regarded as one of the best MMA fighters of all-time. McGregor KOed him in 13 seconds. The hype and trash-talk surrounding this fight was unprecedented in MMA. McGregor became a sensation in Ireland and throughout the MMA community (and beyond) for his trash-talking and his knockout power. He is widely regarded as one of the most marketable figures in the UFC, and this will only catapult him to even more popularity. I believe this fight should be posted because it also marks a shift in the MMA world. Ronda Rousey was KOed not so long ago, and now Aldo's reign was taken down by McGregor. [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] ComputerJA () 08:56, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I posted after you closed that one, didn't get an edit conflict. Noted the record-setting money up there. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:00, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is the longest reigning champion in UFC, the only featherweight champion UFC has ever had, defeated in record time by a rising star. So far as encyclopedic interest goes, that's multiple checkboxes for notability - longest/only champion and the record time. Fights (boxing or MMA) seem to struggle to get posted because there's no monolithic championship event taking place on a scheduled day of the year, as well as attracting the usual swarm of meaningless "not news" opposes that all sports get, but this is a really good candidate for a blurb. - OldManNeptune 09:09, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe it would help if world champions acted like important politicians? In his first answer, he reveals he is literally shaping reality here. Like in Poltergeist III, but with a Babe Ruth twist. This goes well beyond the MMA bubble. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:29, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support it's probably about time that we recognised that UFC is a reality and a real sport. With this and the Rousey bout making it to the front page of my version of the BBC homepage (i.e. the UK one), it's clear that the reach is international, and that if boxing continues to become more and more boring, UFC will be where it's at. This certainly seems to be one of the most historic moments in the brief history of UFC. Nice beard. And well played Ireland. P.S. al blurb fixed up a bit.... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:49, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wikilinks are certainly cool. Fixed up the other two. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:07, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question and Oppose Since we just posted UFC 193 and it was controversial to say the least, I'm wondering if the supporters here want every major UFC event posted to the main page or just certain ones? Personally I think 1 UFC event to main page per year is more than enough. Brian Everlasting (talk) 20:04, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Correction: UFC 193 was pulled out after it was posted. Let's not do the same here until consensus says yes. Unmarking as ready. George Ho (talk) 20:32, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Just the ones that that make in-depth, mainstream news. Simply being headlined by McGregor or Rousey is enough to do that today, but it's the multiple broken records that pushed 193 and 194 from just being "in the news" to deserving Wikipedia's In The News. BBC, CBC and CNN don't give a crap about Rafael dos Anjos' upcoming successful lightweight title defense (aside from what it'll mean for McGregor). Barring something insane, I won't be nominating that one, or any others till UFC 200. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:07, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think that setting a number is crystalballing and an intrinsically silly idea. There might be four truly newsworthy fights in one year and zero the next. We should post fights if and when they are notable, like we do everything else, rather than getting caught up a misguided attempt to editorially balance ITN. My question to you is, do you have a reason for opposing this, other than just "we already had Rousey up for a few hours before being pulled, that's the yearly quota"? - OldManNeptune 00:19, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please read what supporters have said and news sources which confirm this was a very notable event. Thank you. Andise1 (talk) 00:23, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - UFC has never been featured on the ITN section of the main page (aside from the short time UFC 193 was featured), and this seems to be a big upset, something that is actually in the news. As The Rambling Man mentioned, UFC is a real sport. It has lots of fans and is watched by many. If the article is in good shape, I say post it. Andise1 (talk) 00:27, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Not to be a pedantic dweeb about it, but mixed martial arts is a real sport. UFC's just the premier league, and a real genericized trademark. Viacom's Bellator MMA is catching up, as far as watercooler talk goes. Fight quality, not so much. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:03, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Have you ever wondered who's meeting to talk about watercoolers? I hadn't. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:19, 15 December 2015 (UTC) [reply]
  • Support - I see this item in the news so much I don't see how anyone can reasonably say that it is not notable. Banedon (talk) 00:50, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I'm just not seeing the significance of this relatively minor sport. Media coverage has been limited to the speciality press or one short article in each sports section - so roughly on the level of rowing or snowboarding. Public interest seems to be similarly limited to a hard core of fans watching on limited reach pay-per-view channels. I also share the concerns of those above about posting multiple UFC events on a frequent basis. Modest Genius talk 12:10, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking of MMA in general, that's close to the truth. But this fighter is a different animal, and this fight (aside from its sporting significance) was short and funny enough to make very shareable Vine videos. He's crossed over into the opinion sections, where he also rocks the literary and fashion worlds. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:30, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Doubters must admit defeat as record-breaking McGregor answers last big question with ease." Slightly different question there, but close enough and a good analysis for those who don't immediately see why this mattered. Not sure I'd go so far to say it was a turning point in the eternal battle between mystics and skeptics, but maybe. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:01, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have fixed the header to the usual format. I'll have to say I oppose this as newism, but I am an oldist, certainly not a US male of the 15-24 age group. To me this seems like posting a new app. Admins should discount my opinion of the nom to that extent. μηδείς (talk) 23:07, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The new app is so last month. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:43, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'd thought the timing was remarkable. But yeah, there's a lot to take in on this one, even for a fan. Probably best to not toss crazy numbers at general audiences. The Wikilinks tell the bigger story just fine. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:38, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 11

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents
  • 2015 South Indian floods
    • Major UK-based reinsurance broker Aon Benfield estimates India has suffered over US$3 billion (over Rs. 200 billion) worth of losses as a result of the flooding, and rates them as the costliest floods and the eighth-costliest natural disaster of 2015.(Business Standard)

International relations
Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

[Posted] 2015 Burundian unrest

[edit]
Article: 2015 Burundian unrest#11 December Bujumbura attacks (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 87 people are killed during attacks in Burundi. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least 87 people are killed amidst ongoing political unrest in Burundi.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

 The Rambling Man (talk) 22:54, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

new section created and updated at #11 December Bujumbura attacks.Lihaas (talk) 04:26, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
strong support came here to nominate it too. Theres a genocide/civil war going on and no one seems to notice (or care). Also nominated the updated section.Lihaas (talk) 04:05, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
ALTBLURB per Banedon.Lihaas (talk) 05:45, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support but only with alt blurb; the original blurb makes it seem like the attacks were isolated incidents. If the unrest is ongoing, it should be listed as so. Banedon (talk) 05:34, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support - a significant but neglected conflict. High casualty. -Zanhe (talk) 05:44, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] New Zealand flag referendum

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[[File:|140px|Proposed image ]]
Article: New Zealand flag referendums, 2015–16 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A Silver fern flag (pictured) is chosen as the option against the current flag of New Zealand in a March 2016 referendum. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Making news across the world, even if this is the preliminary vote. '''tAD''' (talk) 19:25, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Posted] DuPont-Dow merger

[edit]
Articles: Dow Chemical Company (talk · history · tag) and DuPont (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ American chemical companies DuPont and Dow Chemical Company agree to merge with each other, creating a new company with an estimated value of about $130 billion. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ American chemical companies DuPont and Dow agree to an estimated $130 billion merger, with plans to split into three separate companies within two years.
News source(s): Reuters USA Today Los Angeles Times, WSJ
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Described as "among the top 20 biggest mergers ever" by USA Today article above. Everymorning (talk) 16:53, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

oppose per BB. We made this mistake once with the banana merger. let it clear regulatory hurdles.Lihaas (talk) 10:38, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We kind had this discussion on the talk page; Clearing regulatory hurdles likely will not garner as much attention as this announcement. If it was denied, then it might and could always be discussed for posting. 331dot (talk) 12:03, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 10

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Arts and culture

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International relations

Law and crime

[Posted to RD]: Dolph Schayes

[edit]
Article: Dolph Schayes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN The New York Times ESPN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American basketball player and coach considered one of the all-time greats. Member of the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Kudzu1 (talk) 01:56, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - Article in good shape, seems to meet importance for NBA players. --MASEM (t) 02:51, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I used to oppose similar nominations about the death of NBA players in the past and will not change it unless we have a case of a player who was really very important figure with outstanding achievements. Winning a single NBA Championship and being member of the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame are barely significant records and were achieved by many other players. Examples of basketball players who merit inclusion are Bill Russel, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird and others (not to mention those from more recent times). Please compare what these players have achieved in their careers and how they are celebrated. Also, note that all of them except Abdul-Jabbar, who has boycotted the Olympic Games because of the unequal representation of African-American athletes, have played crucial role as member of the United States national basketball team in winning the Olympic gold. Sorry, we have to keep room on the main page for other more important people in other fields and cannot regress on posting basketball players like Dolph Schayes. Anyway, thanks for the nomination.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:09, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A newspaper of record like The New York Times doesn't indiscriminately write up obituaries for any ol' sports figure. Sure he's not Michael Jordan, so go blame him for peaking before television ratings exploded. If Basketball Hall of Fame induction and The New York Times isn't validation enough, he is in the exclusive list of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History.—Bagumba (talk) 10:02, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. There are other measures of importance than winning championships, and I think Schayes meets the criteria based on his career(12-time all-star, multiple halls of fame, 15 playoff appearances in his 16 year career, also got one Coach of the Year award, etc.). 331dot (talk) 10:23, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Poor Wikipedia if we have to regress on using criteria as appearances in exhibition games and knockout stage of tournaments, membership in a Hall of Fame with 345 members and listing among the 50 greatest league players to validate importance of a sportsman. In football, a sport which is far more popular than basketball, there are hundreds who meet these criteria but we are not surely going to post all of them. The principal idea of introducing the RD section was to prevent overcrowd of death blurbs assuming the same criteria would be used as before; unfortunately, it has become a death list with substantially lower criteria for inclusion.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:20, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    It is certainly your right to disagree, but I feel the information in his article indicates that he meets the criteria. Each case should be evaluated on its own merits. I think that one out of 50 and one out of 345 is nothing to sneeze at given the thousands who have played professional basketball(leaving aside the other aspects of his career that merits inclusion IMO) 331dot (talk) 12:55, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I just responded to your challenging comment and do not intend to debate nor have time to do it. As always, I will accept the opinion of the majority.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:02, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    There are two names on RD right now, one of which is about to roll off. What "overcrowd" are you talking about? I respect your opinion, but your argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me. -Kudzu1 (talk) 16:35, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I said that we introduced the RD section to prevent the whole ITN box get overcrowded with death blurbs. The names added to the RD section are not death blurbs.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:11, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Quite frankly I agree with Kiril's reasoning. This is not exactly groundbreaking, and we've talked before about needing to tighten the standards for RD.--WaltCip (talk) 13:24, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Tightening standards should not mean that only the tip-top in the field be posted. The purpose of Wikipedia (and ITN) is to educate people and the current criteria should allow for that. The relevant criteria is "very important", not "most important". If you want to change that, please discuss on talk page. 331dot (talk) 13:34, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
People can easily get educated by reviewing the bolded section titled "recent deaths", which is already one of the most visited articles on the English Wikipedia (with 60,000 views per day on average). Also, posting does not necessarily help increase traffic to articles about persons who have recently died since traffic may have already increased (Dolph Schayes is a very good example), implying that the value added of posting to RD is low in the context of educating people.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:02, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per Kiril, Walt. – Sca (talk) 14:25, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Kiril, given his argument simply seems to be that Schayes' heyday was before most people owned TV's. The article is in good shape, and he's a notable award and championship winning coach and player. μηδείς (talk) 16:42, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support you can blow me down with a feather. This guy seems to have a lot of notable NBA credits, and his article isn't awful. I'm permanently turned off by "hall of fame" nonsense, but allegedly being a top 50 NBA player ever seems to make the grade, just. The fact that I've never heard of him is entirely irrelevant. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:31, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Very successful as a player and coach, and his career seems to go above and beyond simply being in the Hall of Fame, which by itself usually isn't enough to guarantee an RD listing. I'm not a basketball fan and I'd never heard of the guy, but I don't really see any issues notability-wise. --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:32, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted --Jayron32 20:35, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Regarding concerns about overcrowding, this is the lone RD on ITN at the time of posting. As far as tightening standards, it's a tricky balancing act between someone being at the top of their field and their relevance to the rest of the world. I've seen RDs that seemed to have been even more of niche field than this one, of course it's all relative to one's background. It's an interesting debate, though one that probably doesn't have a clear answer when operating on WP consensus, as opposed to having one editor-in-chief or a small editorial board.—Bagumba (talk) 20:54, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - good shape article. RD is appropriate.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:02, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Arab coalition captures Hanish islands

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Arab coalition captured Hanish Islands in Red Sea. (Post)
News source(s): (Al Jazeera), (Al Arabia)
Credits:
 Jenda H. (talk) 17:02, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think "Hanish" is a term you'll find in Ursula K. Leguin's Earthsea oeuvre. μηδείς (talk) 18:19, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there any special reason why the capture of these islands is more important than any other development in the conflict? In principle I would support ITN featuring significant developments in ongoing conflicts, but this does not seem to be a significant development. Thue (talk) 20:30, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I too would like to know why this is important. Does this represent some major turning point or capture of assets? The nomination doesn't provide an explanation and the articles surprisingly enough do not either. - OldManNeptune 03:02, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 9

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] Saint Vincent and the Grenadines election

[edit]
Article: Vincentian general election, 2015 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, the incumbent Unity Labour Party wins a majority of seats in a general election. (Post)
News source(s): AP via China Post (TW) Latin Am. Herald Tribune Caribbean360
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Lihaas (talk) 13:20, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • The article is fine. Posting when I see some more support. --Tone 20:43, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I understand it is on ITNR, but this is a very small nation and not a single seat changed hands in the election. To me this isn't notable enough. Comments on improvement for the article would be too use an election infobox and find some international reactions. Regards, Jolly Ω Janner 21:04, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Jolly Janner: Efforts to somehow limit which nation's elections are posted(by geographical size, population, size of economy, etc) have all been rejected in the past, so we go by the criteria of all states on the List of sovereign states. All of that said, Lihaas has not posted any sources indicating this election is in the news, and if it is not(which is likely the case if no seats changed hands) then it should not be posted on those grounds. 331dot (talk) 21:33, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Added sources. George Ho (talk) 21:42, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Angkor Wat

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Article: Angkor Wat (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Archaeologists announce the discovery of new buildings and structures in Angkor Wat. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Archaeologists announce the discovery of new buried towers, fortifications, and other structures in Angkor Wat.
News source(s): University of Sydney, The Epoch Times
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Some good archaeological news instead of politics. The finding was published in the recent issue of AntiquityBrandmeistertalk 20:46, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Swiss federal Council election

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Swiss Federal Council (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The seven members of the Swiss Federal Council (government) are being renewed this day. This is a fairly consensual election as the seats are attributed according to the magic formulaPopo le Chien throw a bone 09:40, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Ongoing is not meant for elections that are in progress; generally we only post the results of elections. I would suggest making this a regular nomination once the results are known. 331dot (talk) 10:57, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] RD: Elsie Tu

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Elsie Tu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [26]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 ~AH1 06:24, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Ongoing (again): 2015 South Indian floods

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Article: 2015 South Indian floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Don't worry. I strongly favor this nomination a lot more than some aftermath of the San Bernardino shooting. The flood has impacted certain areas of southern India. Even when it started one month ago, the results are devastating. Also, the Main Page is currently out of balanced due to left side's condensed content, which would risk pushing out blurbs older (or a little bit newer) than this. It was previously nominated as Ongoing, but consensus agreed to make it a blurb. Rather than push the shooting blurb out of the window, we can transform the flooding story into Ongoing ticker to save other blurbs.(An older blurb and this blurb already pushed out; [the blurb can be pushed out again or reinserted for balance]) George Ho (talk) 00:14, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
TRM, I don't want to stop doing that on recent deaths, but I'm willing to reduce nominations on recurring events as "Ongoing". I proposed Helmut Schmidt to be moved from blurb to RD because newer stories were coming and the auto race blurb was at the bottom. Rather than wait for Schmidt to be at the bottom, consensus said put him to RD and save the auto race for a short while until something new would come. I was doing the same strategy to this, but I got the opposite results instead. As far as I see, events and individual deaths are treated differently. Therefore, I'll be careful on events, but I'll see whether obituary blurbs are worth pushing older blurbs out. --George Ho (talk) 00:40, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No, they are treated the same way. Here's how we treat them 1) Someone nominates something. 2) People discuss it and vote. 3) If it has consensus we post, if it doesn't have consensus we don't. I don't see where this is being "treated" any differently. --Jayron32 00:45, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Obituary blurbs are rare anyway. We don't need special rules for them. Four days of a blurb, for instance, is still much more prominent than a week of RD, so I don't think we need to say that there is an expectation that obits will be moved in RD. BencherliteTalk 01:38, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the standard at RD has usually always been that the oldest RD cannot be older than the oldest blurb. So, if something would have rolled off as the oldest blurb, it would have also been taken off RD at the same time. --Jayron32 02:20, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I should have discussed consensus treatments of obituary blurbs/RDs and ongoing events. Consensus would say yes to putting an obituary blurb to RD but then say no to the aftermath of any sort of tragedy, especially when a story will be rolled off the bottom. George Ho (talk) 02:41, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I don't think you understand. Let me make it clear: we don't need your help to balance the main page columns. Nominations should be based on their suitability for inclusion in ITN, not used as devices to try to balance the look of the main page. As you well know, the balance can change every 12 hours as the DYK section changes. Is that clearer? The Rambling Man (talk) 06:03, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose looking at the changes made to the article in the last couple of days, the new information being added strikes me as being insufficiently significant to warrant posting as developments of encyclopaedic interest. BencherliteTalk 10:01, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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December 8

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Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and medicine

International relations
Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Mattiwilda Dobbs

[edit]
Article: Mattiwilda Dobbs (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times Atlanta Journal The Telegraph Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: early black female opera singer, recognised as a ground-breaking pioneer MurielMary (talk) 10:22, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose her recognition section doesn't back up the nomination in any way at all. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:42, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment here's a suggestion, something like "Possessing a small but buoyant voice, Dobbs was admired for her refined vocal technique and lively interpretations." (in the lead) needs to be expanded and referenced in the main body. I'm not seeing that in the article. The nomination includes terms such as "ground-breaking" and "pioneer". I'm not seeing that in the article. From a technical perspective, I see the same reference repeated seven or so times, that's why we have ref name. My original comment still stands regarding the notability of the individual. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:11, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Bonnie Lou

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Bonnie Lou (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Billboard New York Times obituary
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: member of the Rockabilly Hall of Fame, described as a pioneering female country and rock singer. Article is decent. Connormah (talk) 21:29, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] RD: Douglas Tompkins

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Douglas Tompkins (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Founder of North Face died from hypothermia in a kayaking accident in Chile. Notable for his life, career, and the way he died. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:43, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's in much better shape now. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:48, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Still a couple of inline tags that need dealing with. I'll weakly support on notability, although I think it's a borderline case. His company is a lot better known than he ever was. -Kudzu1 (talk) 02:52, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Mona Lisa hidden portrait

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: Mona Lisa (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ French scientist Pascal Cotte announces he had found a hidden portrait beneath the surface of Mona Lisa. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Newsweek, Mona Lisa Foundation
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Giving this a try. The full report appears on the Mona Lisa Foundation website, although Louvre reportedly hasn't confirmed this yet. Brandmeistertalk 10:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The first two sources you provide above say this is a bullshit claim, and the third is a reprinted press release by the person claiming to have found it. Total non-story. ‑ Iridescent 11:53, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. As stated, this is an announcement of the finding of the person who has worked on this theory, and there doesn't seem to be independent confirmation of it. 331dot (talk) 14:02, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This seems to be nothing but just an announcement of a conclusion from a tin-foil-hat theory.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:55, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Same as above, in theory such a story would certainly be worthy but if there is no consensus among art scholars - or a general consensus that this is nonsense - there's no way that could be posted. Obviously if academic opinion somehow ever winds up favoring this theory then we can give it all due consideration then. - OldManNeptune 00:18, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Ongoing: 2015 San Bernardino shooting

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Article: 2015 San Bernardino shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Metrojet crash and Paris attacks were featured as Ongoing. Maybe the shooting investigation can be Ongoing as well while newer stories are coming up. As said before, I don't fully support making one-day crashes or attacks as ongoing. However, I'll try to abstain myself from this. George Ho (talk) 06:18, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose if you don't believe in your own nomination, what's the point. This is just going to re-ignite the "another day, another mass shooting" debate, and there's no "aftermath" other than the usual outpourings of pseudo-shock that "how could this have happened?" etc etc. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:14, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Sadly I'm in agreement with TRM on this... this event did jack to help the problem, and the issue got deflected onto another topic once again (religion/immigration this time) and is quieting down, relatively speaking, already. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 07:18, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We already posted the blurb. While this is not a "normal" shooting (contra the above posters), I don't think the result of the investigation, or the investigation itself, is notable.128.214.53.18 (talk) 11:42, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 7

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[Posted] Akatsuki (spacecraft)

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Template:ITN candidate

This is the real nominator of this story. George Ho (talk) 06:45, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. The JAXA image usage policy appears to be a limited version of an educational use only licence. The 'source' given for that image is a PDF where it only appears as a background image. Probably one to take to WP:PUF. Modest Genius talk 11:56, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
PUF was started. Still a good non-free if that it is what it is. --MASEM (t)

December 6

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[Clsoed] RD: Mike Mangold

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Template:Archive top Template:ITN candidate

  • Kind of interesting, but normally we escalate someone who would be RD even in old age to a blurb due to an unexpected death, rather than escalating someone to RD because of an untimely demise. μηδείς (talk) 03:58, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. Unexpected deaths like this, where the death itself is the story, are typically posted as blurbs(while RD is for the deaths of notable people). In this case we have both, which I still think warrants a blurb. He does seem important to his field(or, more generally, to aviation) given his record in his sport. 331dot (talk) 11:05, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, mild oppose RD - I don't think the death of an old-ish career pilot in an aircrash is particularly unexpected or extraordinary. He was accomplished in winning Red Bull races, but that's a niche field if ever there was one, and he wasn't as recognizable or significant to the advancement of aviation like, say, Chuck Yeager or Bob Hoover. I realize that's a high bar, and it wouldn't particularly bother me to see this posted, but I just don't think there's enough notability here. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:03, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Posted] Elections in Venezuela

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Template:ITN candidate

[Closed] RD: Holly Woodlawn

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[Closed] MLS Cup

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Template:Archive top Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose - apologies for this but I know that in soccer, the most widely-followed leagues (outside of national leagues of course) are the European ones: the British Premier League and Spanish La Liga especially, with the German Bundelisga and Italian Serie A closely behind. Internationally speaking, few people care about the MLS. The quality of play is also lower, as seen by the older European players moving to the MLS before retiring, and the gap in performance at competitions like the Club World Cup. I cannot in good faith support this. Sorry. Banedon (talk) 01:03, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support As the most notable championship game in North American soccer. Canuck89 (talk to me) 01:19, December 7, 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Aside from internationally speaking, MLS is not as popular as the other major sports in the US (NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB). I don't think this gets enough attention to be posted. I'd be willing to bet that the average person on the street wasn't even aware of when the game was. 331dot (talk) 01:35, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Though the team article has a number of CNs to be fixed before posting. I agree MLS is nowhere close to the size of FIFA/World Cup, and is not ITNR, but feel this is reasonable fine given how slow the news is otherwise right now. --MASEM (t) 01:55, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Who cares whether soccer is more or less popular in the US. Even when not listed in ITNR, this should excite all soccer/football fans worldwide (and non-fans). Now that not one sports blurb is currently present, there should be one now. Originally, I opposed city vs. city matches as not global, like NBA Finals, but I am convinced those tournaments make ITN fresh. Quality is decent enough to deserve attention. George Ho (talk) 06:22, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Whether the game should excite soccer fans or not is irrelevant; it doesn't and it's not our job to see that it does, just to reflect it doing so or not. 331dot (talk) 12:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, it's not ITN's purpose to advertise a particular league, sport, or any other product. Modest Genius talk 14:13, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose from one "soccer fan", this certainly does not excite me in the slightest. I could not name a single player who represents either of those clubs. It's a mere blip on the global association football landscape. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:39, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose from this "soccer fan" who is aware that even in the US MLS is something of a standing joke (the US TV viewing figures for English, Spanish, Italian and German matches are far higher than those for MLS), and the MLS salary cap, which makes players' annual wages in the US roughly equal to the weekly wage in Europe, means this will always be the case. Even the MLS's owners and spokespeople concede that in terms of quality MLS is only at the level of the English Championship at best, and not any kind of top level competition; running this would be equivalent to running the French baseball championships. ‑ Iridescent 12:00, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Not even the most popular league in the US. In world football terms, this isn't close to the highest level of competition. We already have plenty of coverage of the sport and there's no need to add another minor league to that. Modest Genius talk 14:13, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose. The MLS is not the highest football compeition in North America. It is demonstrably weaker than the Mexican League. Technically the highest competition in N American is the CONCACAF Champions League.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:34, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • It is if you divide the Americas into North/Central/and South. Then the power leagues are MLS, Mexico and Brazil. North and Latin would work, too. If you divide it into just North and South America then yes MLS is not the top national league of North America. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:55, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yeah, but if you're going to define North America so narrowly that just amounts to saying that it's a stronger league than Canada. The fact that MLS is stronger than the league of a much-smaller country that hardly plays the game is not much of an argument. I don't think focusing on narrowly-defined geographical areas is very helpful. To give an example from my own country, I could say with perfect truth that the New Zealand league is clearly the strongest in the Oceania confederation, but that would be a terrible argument for posting it - it's a very weak league in a confederation of extremely weak leagues. Neljack (talk) 20:33, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A long way in quality below the big four national leagues (England, Spain, Germany and Italy). If we were to post MLS, then what would be the basis for not posting the French, Dutch, Brazilian, Argentine, Portuguese, Japanese, Turkish or Mexican leagues? They are probably all stronger than MLS. Neljack (talk) 19:40, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per 331dot and Neljack. I had no idea the MLS championship happened, despite some people in my city caring about the local MLS franchise. Also soccer is plenty (over)represented in ITN/R as it is, and we shouldn't be expanding it further. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:47, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Posted] Armenian constitutional referendum

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December 5

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[Closed] RD: Dave Brubeck

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And, coincidentally, his death was one of the first full blurbs (if not the first) after the RD section was implemented. --Bongwarrior (talk) 18:44, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Spanish galleon San José found

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[Posted] Azerbaijan oilfield fire

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And there are sources which say that this information is incorrect. Latest information is that one person s confirmed dead and 29 are missing. (Reuters) Beagel (talk) 14:30, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Reuters appears to rely on local Azerbaijani committee on oil workers' rights, whose spokesman reportedly said that 32 had died. Brandmeistertalk 15:08, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It was Reuters' initial reporting. Later they reported new figures. Most of news agencies have changed their their reporting, to 1 dead and 29 are missing or 1 dead and 30 are missing – depending if the latest rescue of one person is included or not. (Reuters), Bloomberg, TASS, Trend News, Xinhua, Associated Press, Agence France-Presse) Beagel (talk) 15:39, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notice. Just for information that Template:User split the information about fire into the newly created Gunashli Platform No.10 fire. Probably the main page link should be updated accordingly. Beagel (talk) 17:53, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 4

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[Posted] RD: Xu Ming

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  • Comment. Typically unexpected deaths get blurbs(since it is the death itself that is the story). If he wouldn't merit a RD listing absent his unexpected death, he shouldn't be listed there. Was he notable as a team owner? (i.e. influenced the league/sport) Merely owning the team I don't think would merit a RD listing. 331dot (talk) 18:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Doing a quick Google check this does seem to be getting some coverage. Undecided at the moment. 331dot (talk) 18:11, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
To follow on this, my first thought was to see how we handled George Steinbrenner, but that was in 2010, before we had RD, and as such then, a blurb for his death was not promoted; I would like to think, though, that if we had RD, he would have been listed there, or at least would be the most recognized candidate from the world of sports-team ownership. In contrast, I don't see Ming here being of similar caliber. --MASEM (t) 18:13, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agree that Steinbrenner would have made RD had we had it then. 331dot (talk) 18:15, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have to disagree that unexpected deaths typically get blurbs. In my opinion, blurb worthiness should depend primarily on overall notability, with an unexpected death being a "tiebreaker" between no posting/RD listing or RD listing/blurb. --Bongwarrior (talk) 18:19, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I just know that precedent seems to have developed a difference between the death of a notable person and a notable death(such as an unexpected one). This seems to be the latter to me. 331dot (talk) 14:07, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, unexpected does not automatically lead to a blurb. IMO, it's the consequences of the death that make that distinction, along with the overall notability. Also, note that Scott Weiland is currently in the RD section, and his death was hardly expected. Modest Genius talk 14:27, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Robert Loggia

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[Closed] ITN photo: Roch Marc Christian Kaboré

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Template:Archive top I wasn't sure whether to report it as error. In doubt, I decided to propose here instead. Not a biggie, but File:Roch Marc Christian Kaboré au FMLF2012.JPG is free to use and should be used to replace a pic of Leon Smith. I don't know why administrators did not change the image suddenly when they posted the Burkina Faso elections. --George Ho (talk) 09:52, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I made the same suggestion in the nomination myself. I can usually kludge something together, but Template:Ping seems to be very good at fixing images and knowing how not to break Wikipedia. Something close to 100% of the time i try to do this myself, I break Wikipedia. --Jayron32 11:34, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Jayron, re-visit the admin instructions, there's an easy method which is pretty foolproof, I've used it many times. There's up to a 15-minute delay, but that's small change to get stuff fixed without having to depend on a single individual. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:31, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'll look into it. Thanks. The old method of "download, reupload, tag everything right, make sure to protect everything" is where I usually botch it up. Thanks for the heads up. --Jayron32 14:06, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I can never do that properly either. Nor could update ITN for no RDs or no Ongoings, so that's why the template and the protection process is a lot easier, I asked some clever to people to help and we have a much easier time of it. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:29, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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December 3

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[Posted] RD: Scott Weiland

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Our practice has been that unexpected deaths that make the news get a blurb. Depending on the cause, it might not meet that standard, but it is possible. 331dot (talk) 11:15, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Full U.S. integration of its military

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Template:Archive top Template:ITN candidate

Linked in Women in combat. Mamyles (talk) 22:21, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. If this were the first country in the world to take this step, I'd support, but this has been the situation in Canada and New Zealand for decades. Without the "first in the world" factor, this is just a parochial story about the internal administration of the military of a single country (albeit an important one). ‑ Iridescent 22:30, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment as I stated above, makes it more notable that the decision was finally reached. That progress has been slow and incremental doesn't make that progress less important. Also interesting that last month there was a complaint around the Michelle Payne/Melbourne Cup nomination of "forcing the pace of progress" on women's news on ITN, and now there is a comment that the progress on women is "too little too late". Goalposts constantly moving? MurielMary (talk) 23:30, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - WaltCip, it may not be earth-shattering to you personally, but if you can take a broader view of the world then you might acknowledge that is earth-shattering to US women who now effectively have 145,000 additional jobs they can apply for. ITN is wider than "earth-shattering to me personally". MurielMary (talk) 23:30, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And if you could take a broader view of the world you'd recognise that this is a decision in a single country which simply brings it into like with its allies. "Country does something new" is news; "country does what other countries already do" is not. ‑ Iridescent 23:39, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"country does what other countries already do" is not news. Really? So when Saudi Arabia lets women drive that won't be news. When the US passes gun control laws that won't be news. The world is a complex place - what is newsworthy depends on the context of the place it occurs in. That this change has happened so slowly in a leading 1st world country is notable. MurielMary (talk) 23:46, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. The fact that it's been so delayed is part of its noteworthiness. MurielMary (talk) 23:54, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Notable development for the world's largest military and major step forward for women's equality. Also added an altblurb. -Kudzu1 (talk) 00:14, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    As an aside, and just as a point of order "World's largest military" is wrong on any number of measures. List of countries by number of military and paramilitary personnel indicates China has the world's largest military by any measure. The U.S. is as high as #2 (if one counts active personnel, but is only about 1/2 as many active personnel as China) and if one includes all military personnel (including reserve and paramilitary forces) the U.S. is only 7th on the list. I'm not saying this is not a valid topic to support, just noting that your rationale in this case is false. --Jayron32 03:06, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Kudzu1 may have meant that the US has the largest military budget. 331dot (talk) 03:14, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I did. Sorry if I was unclear. -Kudzu1 (talk) 03:51, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ah. Vagueness leads to misunderstanding. Try to avoid that in the future. --Jayron32 03:54, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt blurb. This seems to be getting coverage around the world which might generate reader interest. A notable development. 331dot (talk) 00:17, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. The US military isn't actually expanding. It is simply replacing some of its men with women. Unless female soldiers are of different quality compared to male soldiers, nothing of consequence is really changing in terms of, e.g., power projection ability. This is the kind of news to which I say 'okay' and move on to the next item. If there is a dearth of news stories for ITN (which I don't think is the case right now) I'd support it; otherwise I'd say move on. It's worth knowing, but not especially interesting. Banedon (talk) 03:47, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Notable, and given the number of U.S. troops stationed outside its borders, of international interest. Jusdafax 10:21, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Whilst this move is welcome, it is neither surprising nor likely to lead to any major consequences for e.g. international relations. Gradually improving equality in a single nation, in a way that already operates in others, doesn't rise to ITN level in my opinion. Modest Genius talk 12:55, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
220,000 combat jobs suddenly opening to women doesn't seem that gradual to me Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:30, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – As I understand it, this is a stated intention, not an immediate change; not sure it's even a detailed plan to implement the intention. Sca (talk) 14:56, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • The service branches have been given 30 days to submit their plans for implementation. That sounds pretty aggressive, but this has been under discussion for at least a couple of years, so it's not out of the clear blue sky. Be that as it may, ITN often posts stories about events that haven't happened yet, or might not happen at all, such as business merger announcements. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:20, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support Weak only because this is an expected development. Still support, because being "first" is a lot less important than being, well, important - the US military is of greater consequence than most of the rest of the worlds' militaries combined, and is certainly among the most influential, so its decision weighs more heavily, like it or not. - OldManNeptune 16:39, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose In leaning towards supporting, we are talking about a major change in one of the world's largest armed forces. But I'm more on opposed as US is far from the first to do this, and in contrast toward one of the counterexamples above "Saudi Arabia lets women drive", there we're talking about not-quite-so-fundamental right that most of the rest of the world's women enjoy that had been denied to Suadi women, while here we're talking about not a right but an option that women can choose if they want to serve on active duty. If this had been allowing women in any place on the armed forced for the first time, perhaps, but this is not as significant as other decisions the armed forces have made (such as the elimination of Don't ask, don't tell.) --MASEM (t) 16:46, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a matter of opinion/perspective as to whether being able to apply for the same jobs as men is a fundamental right or not - plenty would argue that definitely is a basic right. Also, this decision does allow women to apply for any place in the armed forces for the first time. No positions will remain as "male only". MurielMary (talk) 17:12, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
While driving is not a "right", the legal inability to drive simply based on gender can severely harm that person's ability to function in a society. The ability to not be able to participate in combat operations by gender, on the other hand, is nowhere as close to the impact on one's life and ability to function in society. --MASEM (t) 07:19, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this is a policy decision, subject to change, and of little consequence given women have already died in combat (that's not a new thing if you have studied any world history) and the women will still have to meet physical requirements. μηδείς (talk) 17:22, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Several other countries have already done this (Australia, New Zealand, etc) and its an evolution in US policy rather than a major change. Nick-D (talk) 00:21, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Closed] Zuckerberg and The Giving Pledge

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Template:Archivetop Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose - Sounds all well and good until you read the fine print; this is merely a statement of intent. The donation will be $1 billion per year over the next three years, and the donation is not being made to various philanthropic causes, but to his own initiative to which he still has shareholder control over.--WaltCip (talk) 12:30, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose per Walt. Rich person announcing they are creating a foundation to decide how to give away their money doesn't seem significant. Some sources have noted that Zuckerberg is one of the youngest people to make such a decision, but that doesn't add enough to this for me. 331dot (talk) 13:16, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It's not only about him being the youngest person making the pledge, but also the largest. If you think this isn't noteworthy, you probably don't read the news at all. Spare opinionism here. Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 13:37, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please offer sources to indicate that this is the "largest"; I don't see such a claim in the ones given here. I also think it is not as significant given that he will still control where the money goes; it's not like he is giving his shares to the Red Cross to do with as they please. Also understand that the whole point of this discussion is for people to give their opinions about whether nominations merit posting. Mine is that is does not as I see it now; yours is that it does. "Opinionism" is what we deal in. 331dot (talk) 13:48, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment is bad faith and unnecessarily antagonistic. I read the news story. Your blurb does not reflect what the article states.--WaltCip (talk) 14:32, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You can suggest an alternative blurb WaltCip, I wanted to keep it short. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 14:51, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The pledge is a commitment, not a mere intention. Zuckerberg is already donating for many causes and has philanthropic activities in various education institutes. I don't care about his image, personally I don't like him, but as I said this is all over the (serious) news and thus should appear here. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 15:41, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Closed] Oscar Pistorius

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  1. Murder may be a heinous crime, but it's not uncommon. The only reason to feature any particular case then would be if the perpetrator is a particularly noteworthy person, but Oscar Pistorius doesn't seem like one. If he were to die today, I doubt he'd be featured in Recent Deaths if it weren't for this case.
  2. This looks like a one-off story. Unlike other events like Turkey's downing of a Russian warplane recently, it's unlikely that more news stories arise from this one. On its own this does not mean the story is not worth featuring, but ...
  3. It seems like a relatively uninteresting case, with undisputed facts. There is no possibility of wrongful conviction of someone innocent for example; it's just a matter of how severe the punishment is. It seems to me that the case is being featured around the world simply because it's being featured around the world (see famous for being famous).
I may reconsider this vote if this continues to generate news articles in international media, e.g. interviews with Oscar's family or his girlfriend's family, opinion pieces on the case, etc. Banedon (talk) 10:48, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
May I ask what that has to do with the merits of this item? 331dot (talk) 14:58, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)We could all say that for almost any event. What has your personal disgust with Pistorius got to do with this event's notability? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots14:59, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing personal against Mr. Pistorius, with whom I am not acquainted. However, in the last three years his case has garnered so much journalistically unwarranted coverage that as a topic he has become a giant yawn. (Besides, this decision, while significant to the defendant, does not materially change the outcome of the case.) Sca (talk) 15:38, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose His conviction has already been featured on ITN. Criminal sentencing often does change after conviction. This should be treated similarly to a convict getting paroled, which is not notable enough for ITN. Mamyles (talk) 15:33, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    His conviction has been changed, murder, not manslaughter. The sentencing will also change. How that equates to parole, I know not. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:35, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no new information with regard to what he did. The court has simply reclassified the act that he was already convicted of, based on the definition of murder in South Africa. The result is a different sentence length, which is as significant as a parole. Mamyles (talk) 15:44, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    "I blame her. If she hadn't been in that disabled toilet none of this would have happened." Jimmy Carr's Granny (talk) 18:24, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, your claim wasn't quite right, the sentencing may change, but the conviction has. The highest profile Paralympic athlete guilty of murder does not equate in any way to parole. It makes the act of violence he committed a deliberate one, he intended to kill his girlfriend. How is that the same as getting an early release from prison? The Rambling Man (talk) 23:21, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    No, Justice Leach of the South African appeals court found the original trial judge had been wrong in two points of law - that the ballistics evidence had not been correctly considered and that Pistorius had fired deliberately. The identity of the victim was not a consideration and Pistorius' claim, that he thought the target was an intruder, was not challenged. 217.38.82.227 (talk) 23:30, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Particularly disagree with opinions that this is an "uninteresting" case as it has been highly scrutinized in South Africa (over whether Pistorius got differential treatment as a white man) and in domestic violence circles (in a similar way to the OJ Simpson trial) as the case has appeared to be one of a domestic incident turned violent which the perpetrator then claimed to be self-defence against an intruder. In many circles a fascinating case and this development is of interest. Example from The Guardian of discussion around DV provoked by this case MurielMary (talk) 22:19, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Everything so far has been "not yet" and so it would have remained in the US. But in SA, it is YET. The time to post a murder charge against a world's top athlete is upon us. μηδείς (talk) 06:34, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Murder, manslaughter. That won't matter. Trial of Oscar Pistorius was featured once. Featuring it again won't change his crime, although convictions change through appeals. His fiancée is dead, and the conviction change does not make his crime new at all. The media may have emphasized it a lot, Wikinews already wrote this story, and the trial page may have been shown on Main Page. However, let's not do this again. George Ho (talk) 06:45, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Hab

What? Notability does not equate attraction... or quality. Even when the guy is notable, we shall not repeat the OJ-trial standard... ever! --George Ho (talk) 21:56, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Can you clarify how Wikipedia covered the OJ trial, and what you particularly disliked about it please? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:59, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No, no, no. When I said "OJ-trial standard", I guess I should have meant the press's overemphasis on one murder trial of a celebrity. The OJ trial received a lot of attention because the football player has been very famous among football fan community and astonished everybody in the past. He even appeared in films and TV programs. The trial wasn't very impactful that much, but the press made it so just to gain profits, shatter the celebrity's reputation, and divide the community. Is he guilty or not guilty? Everybody thought either way and spent more time thinking about the trial. Meanwhile, other more serious events and other things, like political conflicts, haven't received much attention at the time of coverage. --George Ho (talk) 22:37, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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December 2

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[Closed] UK air strikes in Syria

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Template:ITN candidate

Oppose until actual strikes begin and we have significant text about the strikes themselves and their results and impacts. The entirety of the update to the article is basically the blurb itself, and if all we have to direct readers to is the same statement made in the blurb, it's not really blurb worthy. A fine vote, but neither particularly unexpected nor a major development in the progress of the war. --Jayron32 00:41, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. As I understand it the UK has already been bombing ISIS in Iraq, just not Syria. As Jayron states, not a major development. 331dot (talk) 00:49, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose incremental shift in policy, an inevitability post-Paris, and while it's relatively headline news in the UK (mostly because of the divisions within the Labour Party's front bench), it's not changing the game. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:09, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Not unexpected, and not a big change in the grand scheme of things. Fgf10 (talk) 09:55, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Huge news in the UK, but not likely to be a turning point of the war as the UK contribution will be small compared to ongoing actions by the US, France, Russia etc. This is basically a gesture (one which kills people, but there you go). However I would support putting Syria back in the ongoing section once the Russian jet shoot-down drops off the template. There's still plenty of things happening, including the UK joining the fray. Modest Genius talk 11:26, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per TRM. This is top British news, but the global effect is small compared to what Russia, France and the US have already been doing to ISIS '''tAD''' (talk) 12:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] 2015 San Bernardino shooting

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Template:Archive top Template:Archivetop Template:ITN candidate

With 14 confirmed dead this is ready to post. Sca (talk) 22:43, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Hat

  • Is this the news that it was some kind of holiday event for "county employees"? If so, I'd agree, it's another day, another mass shooting. Don't think it's possible to withdraw this nomination right now, sadly. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Correct; listening to a California news station, that appears to be where the story is headed.--WaltCip (talk) 21:52, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Withdrawing because it was a holiday party? We have 14 reported deaths at this point and three suspects who carried it out, and are at large. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:05, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Yup, the 355th mass shooting in the US this year. It's not Paris, as one editor noted above. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:10, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not Paris, it's its own horror. And as I said above and below, only ten of those 355 mass shootings have merited articles, and this death toll is the sixth worst in U.S. history, which is a big deal considering how many that is out of. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:13, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm afraid mass shootings in the US are now in the "road traffic accidents in India" category. More than one a day with at least four victims so far this year, it's becoming tragically tedious, a routine event. Echoed by the fact that only one country on planet Earth has a category dedicated to mass shootings by year.... The Rambling Man (talk) 22:21, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, U.S. gun policy is broken. But to compare the willful killing of civilians to traffic accidents, and to dismiss every shooting in the U.S. unless you have confirmation is was ISIL? – Muboshgu (talk) 22:33, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it looks most certain to be yet another gun-toting maniac (or maniacs) incident, similar to the other 354 incidents so far this year. To have a "by year" category is indicative that we need to start really cutting down on this kind of routine happening. This one may just about creep across the line, just because it's 14 dead Americans (as opposed to say 130 dead in Paris), but we have to draw that line somewhere, and this could just about be it. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:36, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually not. This looks different. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots22:43, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, some of us thought that. But apparently not. Just another mass shooting. There'll be at least one tomorrow. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:45, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it's different. It's multiple shooters who were carrying out a plan. The maniacs usually act alone and fall well short of their goals and get caught or killed, while these guys came in, shot up seemingly a specific target, and fled before anyone could react. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots22:50, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    @ User:The_Rambling_Man I'm not sure why you espouse these beliefs, which many people find insulting and hurtful, that "mass shootings in the US are now in the "road traffic accidents in India" category". There wasn't one yesterday, there won't be one tomorrow, there were certainly not "355" this year. Yes, the United States has a problem with gun violence, and it's one we're struggling to deal with, but to suggest that a casual attitude towards murder is the "majority of Americans' attitudes" is not only inaccurate, it's also insulting. I can understand how, from the outside looking in, it may appear that way, but it simply isn't the case (and you've put forth no evidence to support your claim). I humbly suggest that you apologize for your remarks, and drop this line of conversation. Thank you. --166.137.98.127 (talk) 02:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Try this reliable source. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:47, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Hab

Police does not always have full oversight in these situations and it's not all that uncommon that the numbers of fatalities are adjusted down later. The Mali numbers we had recently on the front page was adjusted down; I remember the same thing happened when we had the 2011 attacks in Norway. We are an encyclopedia... Iselilja (talk) 22:49, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We reflect reliable sources. Next. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:50, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that these things are still allowed to happen in what calls itself a civilised country is most distressing. Also, your continued presence on wiki is also most distressing, but I digress. Fgf10 (talk) 09:11, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, yawn. Until you actually sort out your country this will remain commonplace and thus completely uninteresting. Fgf10 (talk) 09:11, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why should anyone pretend to care about this? I'm not opposed but every time you end up whining about "casual attitudes" to wards murder. If you cared, you'd be trying to post for each and every murder ever. Oh wait, not American enough?Correctron (talk) 00:05, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted by consensus – U.S. shooting events are severely limited through ITN as it is, and this event stands out in terms of human loss among the hundreds this year. Further limiting this pool of news serves no purpose at this point. Arguments against posting are not convincing this time around. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 22:53, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support - While I can see conditions where this type of shooting would be "yet another American shooting" incident, the fact that it appeared to be multiple shooters and something that lasted for more than a few minutes puts this beyond the typical gun-related crime, and instead something planned, even if it only just taken as domestic terrorism. --MASEM (t) 00:04, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Archivebottom

  • Oppose. I realise this is futile and not going to lead to pulling, but for the record I don't think we should be posting this, or shootings like it. Regrettably, mass shootings happen in the US all the time; there are several each week. If we don't post e.g. bus crashes in India, bombings and shootings in the Middle East, industrial disasters in developing countries - all of which kill groups of people but are fairly frequent - then we shouldn't be making a special case for the US. Horrible systemic bias. Modest Genius talk 11:30, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed, as noted in the hatted section, this is the 355th mass shooting in the US this year alone. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:35, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think the above discussion should have been hatted as there was still discussion to be had as to whether the item should remain on the ticker. I hadn't even considered the systemic bias angle, but now that it's been brought up, I do feel compelled to say this should be pulled.--WaltCip (talk) 12:32, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This is not a typical mass shooting, but a coordinated attack by more than one person; since 1949 only two mass shootings have involved more than one shooter. There was also an extensive pursuit and gun battle with the suspects. This is unusual even in the US. 331dot (talk) 12:49, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - This was different... as I said yesterday. And I have to ask editors such as FGF10 - did you "yawn" at the Paris attacks also? How did France's "civilized" attitude toward guns help protect them against those attacks? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots14:50, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No of course not. To even compare the two events shows your complete lack of understanding. How does the US's 'civilized' (sic) attitude towards guns help protect them against these attacks? The fact that maps like these exists shows why this isn't news. Fgf10 (talk) 14:59, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As stated, shootings involving more than one shooter are rare in the US; this is not a typical mass shooting. There are some things that you don't seem to be understanding here. For this not being news it is certainly in the news a lot(and not just in the US) 331dot (talk) 15:06, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I think we should be more lenient towards our American contributors. It's not their fault they live in such an inwardly looking, nationalist and parochial country. It will of course be difficult to gain a global perspective on things when you're stuck in such a situation, as perfectly illustrated by BB above. Fgf10 (talk) 15:04, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please take your anti-American comments elsewhere and let's focus on the merits of this item. 331dot (talk) 15:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Anti-American attitudes are usually rooted in jealousy or envy. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:16, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Insecure much? Perfectly happy here in the UK, thank you. Fgf10 (talk) 15:27, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The US has countless "soft targets", as do the UK and France, for example. The difference is that in the US we citizens have at least the theoretical capability of protecting ourselves. The UK and France do not. So much for "civilized". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:36, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Say what? Where do you see anti-American comments? I was merely recognising sociological differences and saying we should take them into account. I have no problems with American or the US whatsoever, just expecting them to realise other people are different. Fgf10 (talk) 15:15, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps you meant well but reading your comment it comes off as sarcastic and offensive within the context of this discussion. I think it best not to further take up this page with debating it. 331dot (talk) 15:19, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect example of exactly I was talking about.... Fgf10 (talk) 15:27, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Incorrect, currently no 3 story on the BBC, after the Pistorius verdict and UK bombing in Syria. (neither of which are on ITN, correctly so, I might add) Fgf10 (talk) 15:27, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So apparently Wikipedia is smarter than the BBC? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:37, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I said English-language media, not British media. See AP, NYT, WP, LAT, CBS, NBC, etc. Forgive me for pointing out that there are approximately five times as many native speakers of the English language in the U.S. as in the UK. (And BTW, UK-based Guardian also leads with San Bernadino.) Sca (talk) 15:58, 3 December 2015 (UTC) [reply]
As I noted below: " It's being obsessed over in North America, that's it, everywhere else has just noted it's another mass shooting in America and is getting on with their lives, because nothing ever changes and it's now routine to have, on average, at least one mass shooting per day in America. ". The Rambling Man (talk) 16:03, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This one looks different. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:21, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Second at the Sydney Morning Herald, third on New Zealand's Herald, about seventh on the Time of India website (whose headline is 'On average, mass shootings occur daily in US'), about fifteenth on the Times Live in South Africa. Third or fourth on Le Monde, can't find it on Die Welt or Pravda or El Pais. It's being obsessed over in North America, that's it, everywhere else has just noted it's another mass shooting in America and is getting on with their lives, because nothing ever changes and it's now routine to have, on average, at least one mass shooting per day in America. That this had two shooters, interesting, but still "another day, another mass shooting". The Rambling Man (talk) 15:42, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Closed] 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference ongoing

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Template:Archive top Template:ITN candidate

Nominators' comment: The current climate change conference will be held near Paris till 11 December and has already been one of the most reported on topics in the past few days. I'm actually quite surprised it hasn't yet made it to the ongoing part of ITN. If any sort of deal is reached at the conference, then that can be included in ITN on its own if/when that happens. Admittedly the article still requires quite a bit of work, but I'm sure this will happen as more information about the conference is released and public interest in it grows. odder (talk) 13:25, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait until we get an agreement, or the talks break down, at which point it can (should) be nominated for a full blurb. There aren't really any ongoing updates here, beyond the fact that the negotiations are currently happening. The purpose of the ongoing section is not to list all potentially-significant things that are going on; it is to highlight stories where there are lots of small developments that individually don't merit blurbs but add up to a significant story. That isn't the case here, and we will definitely have a single event to highlight. Modest Genius talk 14:23, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on procedure. There's a ongoing misunderstanding about what Ongoing is for. This can be re-nominated as a stand alone headline if something notable happens, but note that merely being a international gathering does not guarantee support.128.214.69.192 (talk) 14:37, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this is not something that usually shows up in "ongoing". That said, I don't see any reason why this cannot be featured there. Banedon (talk) 14:46, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose or Wait as Modest Genius suggests. The ITN item would be if there is any significant treaty, accord, or the like that comes out after the conference is over. --MASEM (t) 14:49, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per Modest Genius. Once major news comes out of it, we can post a blurb.---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 20:07, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose; as stated, Ongoing is not meant for events in progress. 331dot (talk) 22:15, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Query to 331dot - aren't sports events such as the Olympics featured on Ongoing? So why not conferences/events such as this one? MurielMary (talk) 22:27, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • This isn`t an international sporting event. Correctron (talk) 00:11, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Just as an explanation, the reason the Olympics gets put in ongoing (and it's about the only event I can think of which would be ITNR for Ongoing), is because, during the Olympics, new information is constantly being updated for two straight weeks to Wikipedia articles. Ongoing exists for articles which a) are receiving constant updates on new information which b) lack a blurb-worthy single "event". The Olympics, historically at Wikipedia, qualifies as both: the article gets regular (almost hourly or more often) substantive, quality, referenced updates, and the event itself lacks a single "blurb" worthy to post. The Climate Change conference is a longer-term event, but I haven't seen this article receive the kind of daily, regular updating which "ongoing" would be necessary to highlight. So it really doesn't hit the purpose of ITN in general, or Ongoing specifically. --Jayron32 03:19, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would add that Ongoing is not meant for a single sports event in progress(such as the World Series or Super Bowl); the Olympics are not a single event, but composed of multiple events as Jayron explained(better than I could have). 331dot (talk) 03:24, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Posted] 2015 South Indian floods

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Template:ITN candidate Just a very quick nomination for 2015 South Indian floods being listed under ongoing EdwardLane (talk) 10:29, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Can you demonstrate that this event is in the news? If the only incremental updates are the death/casualty toll I don't support ongoing and this should be a regular nomination. 331dot (talk) 10:37, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
if you have time to make it a normal nomination - great, here are a couple of quick items int he news when I open google news aggregator bbctelegraphfinancialexpress EdwardLane (talk) 10:53, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support owing to the considerable death toll and number of displaced people. I'm actually a bit surprised Template:U hasn't nominated this, and paging him / her as ITN's resident meteorology expert as well. Banedon (talk) 14:48, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Template:Ping It's been a prolonged event over the past month, I was close to nominating it in early November, but it quieted down. Worth noting that the majority of the deaths took place in the first round of flooding, not the recent ones which sparked this nomination. Still a very disruptive event though. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 19:20, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as ITN entry, not ongoing - This should be an ITN piece, there might be a few things to improve on at the article but for the most part it seems okay, but I don't see this as ongoing as it appears the bulk of the flooding is done, but now we're in the aftermath stage? So bringing the situation to ITN is definitely right. --MASEM (t) 14:51, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support – Worst of the flooding (and majority of the fatalities) mentioned in the article took place in early November, but the renewed floods have been quite disruptive in their own right. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 19:20, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support Floods were there last month as well, but yesterday onwards, it has been bad enough for the Armded Forces and NDRF to be deployed. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 21:12, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for ongoing. Article is receiving regular, substantive updates, event is multifaceted and lacking a single blurb-worthy headline, but the article is getting major quality updates and the event is current. This checks every box in the "appropriate for ongoing" list. --Jayron32 01:41, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as ongoing, but I would support a stand alone headline. The idea behind Ongoing is to provide a way to feature an event that either 1.) has lots of updates that, each on their own, would not warrant a blurb, or 2.) to consolidate lots of blurb-worthy events into a single item. Neither of those apply here. There is a single event in this case, a (prolonged but nonetheless singular, flood season) and this should clearly go as a blurb.128.214.198.142 (talk) 08:45, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I was wondering why this was not on ITN yet. Support ongoing as the article is getting updated every day. These are the worst floods in this part of the country in over a hundred years and the forecast says there'll be plenty more damage over the next 2-3 days. 1.39.96.37 (talk) 18:22, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ongoing is not meant for articles where the only updates are changes to casualty and damage counts; it is for continuing events where the article will be incrementally updated with changes. 331dot (talk) 18:25, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Don't mind either blurb or ongoing. It's a bit jarring to see past tense in a blurb however. Adding an alt blurb. Banedon (talk) 03:33, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support as Nom I'm happy with blurb/ongoing - and thanks Cyclonebiskit and Banedon for sorting out a blurb & alt blurb respectively. think I prefer southern India (capitalisation per my understanding of the etymology section on that article) piped to South India - and so I've made an altblurb2, which I prefer slightly, but I'm not fussy about it as I was only aiming to get the link for all the folk who might be interested easy to find. I can't get this into the present 'itn moment' without the word 'ongoing' being in my head - but I'll leave that for you folks to haggle over. EdwardLane (talk) 09:33, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Ongoing: Syrian Civil War

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Support once the Russian jet shootdown rolls off. -Kudzu1 (talk) 23:59, 28 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in the last few months, on any given day this war or its consequences dominated the headlines, and will likely do so in the foreseeable future. 87.154.212.110 (talk) 00:24, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose this article is not appropriate for ongoing, as no significant additions or changes or updates have been made in over 2 weeks, other than minor wording and grammar changes. Find an article which is getting constant, continuous updates. The purpose of ITN is to highlight new Wikipedia content. This article doesn't have any updated content.--Jayron32 01:36, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the link to the other section, Jayron: #Remove European migrant crisis from ongoing? --George Ho (talk) 03:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What does that mean? The Rambling Man (talk) 23:17, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
George Ho, I believe Jayron means a link to an article related to the Syrian Civil War that's being currently updated, not just any article that could appear in ongoing because it's being updated. Pardon me if I'm misunderstanding. Best, SpencerT♦C 02:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No, no, no. I just gave him an opportunity to vote there also and see comparisons. George Ho (talk) 02:28, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure he's capable of voting wherever he sees fit. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:08, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

December 1

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2015 December 1 Template:Cob


[Posted] Burkina Faso General Election

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Template:ITN candidate

ITNC has worked in the past as an ITNR discussion place, so stop trolling me. Nergaal (talk) 16:15, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Stop trolling ITNC to make a point, instead do something pro-active for a change. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:20, 30 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
result announced [29]Lihaas (talk) 12:31, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Joseph Engelberger

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Template:ITN candidate

[Closed] Turkey ongoing

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Template:Archive top Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose unless and until an article is available for me to assess. We cannot post a redlink to the main page as "quality work". --Jayron32 17:42, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose even if there was a target. What's happening in Turkey is tied to the Syria civil war, so to focus only on Turkey's side and not the overall war that this stems from would be oddly problematic. --MASEM (t) 17:50, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Do yall even read the nom? You would not the lack of an article for the SAME reason you mentionedLihaas (talk) 17:55, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. The purpose of a nomination is to nominate an article to be highlighted on the main page. No article= nothing to assess. There is no other reason to nominate an article. It doesn't matter if you say "Hey look, I'm going to nominate nothing, but go ahead and assess it anyways". Telling us you're doing something ridiculous does not mean we cannot point out its ridiculousness. --Jayron32 18:21, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm even trying to consider what all would be there, which is a valid article topic, I don't question that. But in terms of ongoing news, it's how the instability is tied to Syria's war that is of newsworthiness, and so to have just Turkey and not Syria would not make sense. It would be better for the Syria civil war to be put as ongoing than Turkey's instability. --MASEM (t) 18:45, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Closed] AirAsia crash report

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Template:Archive top Template:ITN candidate weak support (all other things being equal) its not the "few instances where technical failure" as the OP said, since when we do get the outcomes of investigations in the news the vast majority are some sort of technical (or pilot) error. Ie0- not terror. Nevertheless, we don't post investigation outcomes just casue they aint sexy but it was a notable incident (we posted it).Lihaas (talk) 12:15, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Just to rectify, I mean that the majority of air crashes are due to human factor, while only some are due to technical failure. Brandmeistertalk 15:52, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[Posted] Japan resumes whaling

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Template:ITN candidate

Template:Replyto An adminstrator will evaluate the article and judge consensus on this discussion before deciding to post it. 331dot (talk) 10:06, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, there doesn't seem to be any more recent news stories than 3 days ago when the fleet left Japan for Antarctica. How long does it take to get a ship from A to B and start killing?? ... MurielMary (talk) 06:47, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Even if they were in freaking this they still wouldn't be there yet.
You realize that ships are slow, don't you? Japan is at 30°N+ and Antarctica is at 65°S so even if they could go straight there that'd be half the longest possible straight A to B in the world. There's also a bunch of land in the way like Australia and Papua New Guinea so they have to go around. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 07:45, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Template:U that question was my poor attempt at irony/sarcastic humour .... i.e. "have they killed any whales yet?" - "nope, they still have to get there". Didn't really work! MurielMary (talk) 08:35, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]