User talk:Voceditenore/IEP archive

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This is a subpage of my Schoolwork talk archive and relates to the India Education Project.

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Autumn 2011

Comment

hi, i am new to wiki editing, thanks for your help in assisting me. 14.97.23.139 (talk) 20:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi there. I'm not sure which article you're referring to, but I'm glad it was a help. Voceditenore (talk) 12:41, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

• Note: from the location of the IP, appears to refer to an article from the India Education Project. Voceditenore (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2011 (UTC)i

Request

Hello Mam, I am extremely sorry for the copvios in my edits,now i restarted the work and I want you to go through it if you have time.I wrote the stuff on "Gray Box Testing" in my sandbox.Netra Nahar (talk · contribs) Netra Nahar 16:09, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

• Replied on your page. Voceditenore (talk) 12:41, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP

Had you already seen this that I wrote yesterday? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

No, not until I just posted there, but I see you used "factory floor" too. How funny! Re Talk:Wikimedia Foundation - India Programs/Education Program, don't scrap your message! They need to hear more voices from the factory floor so they don't think I'm a random crank. ;-) Best, Voceditenore (talk) 12:38, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

(Nobody thinks you're a random crank. I've already talked about both of you to those behind the scenes. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:33, 18 October 2011 (UTC))

IEP & NPP

Hi Voce. I'm just letting you know that I've had enough of this IEP issue. Deleted pages are still being recreated, but I'm now skipping all India related new pages while I'm on patrol - I have to get back to development of the new 'new user' interface and new page patroll systems that I've committed myself to helping the WMF on. I've offered the WMF several suggestions for the IEP, and it's up to them if they want to to pursue them. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:44, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Ditto here. I'm still doing about 3 or 4 NPP a day, but only for articles that strike my fancy, e.g. a "beauty queen" who seems to be quite convinced of her own fabness, a guitarist in a similar vein who's never heard of capital letters, and (whoopee!) a Ghanaian physicist, who really is fab and didn't write his own article. I figure it will help a little bit on keeping the backlog down. I'll pitch in with cleaning the copyvio once the CCI gets going, but at this point, there's no use trying to stop the flood. All the copyvio is now going into their user drafts, and they've extended the course deadlines til October 30th. Grrrrr. Voceditenore (talk) 17:53, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, I just had one from Pune that I had already deleted three times for blatant copyvio - I mean a whole page of verbatim text - so I simply deleted it again. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:02, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP office hours

Hi. :) Do you do office hours? I'd love to attend the office hours on the IEP, but they've scheduled it after my bedtime. :/ I'll be able to read the transcripts later when they are posted, but I would be pleased to get the opinion of somebody who was there. If you don't plan to go, no worries, but I just thought I'd check. :) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:21, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi MRG! :) Nope, I'm not going. My devotion doesn't extend to getting up at 3am. Besides, as I said on Talk:Wikimedia Foundation - India Programs/Education Program just now, I prefer transparent "on the record" communication for issues on Wikipedia. I guess the WMF are pretty determined not to have it though. Voceditenore (talk) 17:24, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

LOL, yes, that's even less convenient for you than me. :) At this point you probably realize that this isn't meant to be "instead of" but "in addition to". But I agree with you that transparency has been missing, and I hope (and believe) that this is changing. Please don't be discouraged with the WMF. They really are working on it; I think they are somewhere on the continuum of a cultural shift (hard to predict how far until they finish and we can measure where they started to where they wound up).

The phone meeting we had the other morning was pretty encouraging, both in terms of what has been learned from this experience and in the ideas that they were bandying about for finding willing volunteers to help clean up (rather than by default roping in NPP or other editors who didn't sign up for this). I'm never entirely sure how much I can convey when I'm in fly-on-the-wall position, but I know that Hisham has already publicly disclosed the steps they are taking there on Meta: "We have also reached out to OAs who supported the PPI initiative in the US and asked them to provide emergency support to the Pune pilot. We have heard back from ~20 OAs and we are (very shortly) writing to them to provide specific support to students by reviewing their contributions. We can and should have done this much earlier." The US online ambassadors were generally experienced Wikipedians, and I hope that their review will cut down the amount of work. (Which reminds me: I need to make a note to ask Hisham to coordinate those with MER-C. MER-C is planning to list out their contribs in "CCI" format, and if they don't coordinate, we'll just be making redundant labor.) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:12, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP - MDCG

Hello Voceditenore,
We haven't formally met. I'm Arjun Mangol Kanoth, and am the onsite CA for the Machine Drawing and Computer Graphics class under the IEP. I've been acting on your messages about certain problems that arise out of our class, on IEP and other talkpages, though I never spoke on Wiki about it. This message is just to say that if you have any queries or find any problems with my class, I'm the one to contact. And yes, I'm now helping the users working on Electric Steam Boiler and Boiler design, will sort out the problems ASAP. And I apologise if you found any ineptitude on my part, managing 173 students from two different classes was no mean task. There is a lax in editing at present due to Diwali holidays here. If we step in now, it gives us time to review everything and identify problems we have missed, so after this, editing will be a much smoother process, or so I hope.
Cheers!
--The Mangol (talk) 02:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Mangol, nice to meet you and thanks very much for getting in touch. I'm a little confused, though. The course page for Machine Drawing and Computer Graphics lists two completely different students as the CAs. If they are no longer the CAs for that class, it would be a good idea to change the infobox there. Otherwise, editors have no way of contacting the appropriate person. I haven't found you inept and there's certainly nothing for you to apologise for! There's only so much the CAs can do, especially with a ratio of 175/1, and my personal view is that CAs should not be expected to "manage" their fellow students at all—just be there to advise them and be a point of contact for the wider of the Wikipedia community. I contacted [1], [2] the two students who were officially listed as the CAs for that class just to give them a heads up that the four students involved may be coming to them with questions. Anyhow, if you need any help, don't hestitate to contact me. Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 06:35, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Voceditenore, I intend to clarify, When I mentioned 173 students, I didn't actually mean 'all on my own'.I do have one or two other CAs who are helping me with it. Its just that , though not listed as the official CA assigned to the class, I being a part of that very class, the students eventually find it easier to come to me rather than someone else outside. Thanks :) The Mangol (talk) 09:24, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I see :) But, as I said at Wikimedia Foundation - India Programs/Education Program I still feel sorry for you and the other 2 CAs having to look after all those students and do your own coursework too! A ratio of 173/3 is still pretty dreadful. We have been told by the program directors that it has now been made very clear to the students that they cannot paste copyright material anywhere on Wikipedia. There's nothing you can do if they disregard it, and you shouldn't feel that you are personally responsible for their behaviour here. Voceditenore (talk) 09:48, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problems

(WP:India Education Program/Courses/Fall 2011/Machine Drawing and Computer Graphics)

Hi, Thanks for the message.Have contacted the necessary students and will take care that this is not repeated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arnavchaudhary (talk • contribs) 07:11, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Replied here. - Voceditenore (talk) 11:20, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP

Hi. I hate to spring this on you, but could you have a look at Loan waiver. The CA involved (Debastien) says he doens't have time, and unfortunately, I don't either this time. A quick search has shown that the paghe is made up of phrases from multiple searches. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:38, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

This was basically OK, the phrases were pretty common and none of them long. I fixed it in the one or two places where it might have exceeded that. Needless to say, because it wasn't verbatim, it was quite incoherent and disorganized. ;-) I fixed that too, more or less, and formatted the bizarrely presented citations [3] → [4]. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 08:55, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

PS. Also needless to say, in the course of wikifying it, I found another IEP article with copyvio which had been restored after 2 editors had cleaned it. See Talk:Regional Rural Bank. Sigh!. Voceditenore (talk) 09:07, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again for all your hard work. I hope you'll do our survey below - we especially need feedback like yours. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:21, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP -2

Hi Voceditenore (btw - great username... I was a music major, until I realized I wasn't good enough to do it pro, and I'd always be a good "hack") -
I'm Head of Reader Relations at the Wikimedia Foundation (Moonriddengirl, who works for me, speaks very highly of you). I wanted to drop a quick note and say thank you for your work with the copyright clean-up efforts that came from the IEP. There's no question some significant mistakes were made on that program, and it speaks highly both of the projects and of you that we're able to work through them and maintain a high quality offering to our users. With that in mind, I wanted to offer myself as a contact to you, both individually and as an conduit to other staff members. I know that you're beginning to advocate for presumptive removal of text, and I can certainly understand that. So if there's any time that you feel that reaching out to staff at the WMF would be helpful, or if there are any thoughts that you'd like to make sure get to them, please let me know, and I'll move heaven and earth (or try to, anyway) to put you in touch with them. Generally speaking, i think they know that everyone involved in this process is working with no lack of good will, but I also know that sometimes the best way to break through barriers is to put people in direct contact with each other.

Sisyphus trying to keep copyvio off Wikipedia

I'd be happy, personally, to talk to you at any time, in any medium that you request - phone, skype, email, whatever. If there's any other staff member that you want to get in touch with, let me know, and I'll set that up. I know it must be an enormously frustrating time for you on Wikipedia right now, and I want to give you my own apologies for that, and also apologies on behalf of the Foundation for the extra work that you've taken on. We're working to fix this situation, and we will. One of Moonriddengirl's biggest discoveries, I think, when coming to work here, is that things move at a very different pace at the WMF than on the projects. Because we don't have the enormity of scale of the volunteer side of Wikipedia, we're necessarily a little slower to do things, but (like the projects) we do actually get things done. I want you to know that the India copyright issue has probably been the project that received the largest share of my attention for the last several weeks (sharing time with the image filter, perhaps, and some tangental work on the fundraiser). Moonriddengirl is spending a lot of time on it, as is the staff of the global education department here, and the India team locally. Please don't think it's being ignored: it's not.

Anyway, apologies for the length of this post, and please - if at any time there's something I can do to make connections for you (either on this issue or any other), please don't hesitate to let me or Maggie know. My email address is philippewikimedia.org, or - of course - you can leave me a talk page note. Best wishes, and thanks. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:28, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Philippe. Don't panic ;-) I only said I was beginning to be more inclined to allowing presumptive removal after initially opposing it. The decision to implement it doesn't depend on me. It depends on whether it's seen as more important to follow the standard procedures which are much more transparent and less open to individual error, or to keep the length of time copyvio remains on WP as short as possible and relieve the burden on the volunteers who are cleaning it up. I tend to favour the former, but I also respect the views of those who favour the latter. Nevertheless, even if presumptive removal is implemented, I personally won't be cleaning IEP articles on that basis. It's not my style.

I may send you an email with some comments which you could pass on, but I don't see any "barriers" that need to be broken down. That isn't the problem. The problem is that every single mistake that could possibly have been made with the IEP was made. If anything it illustrates the WMF moving way too fast, not too slowly. I'm not saying this with benefit of hindsight. If I had seen that program before it was rolled out, I would have said exactly the same thing. Kudpung, Risker and I have now made lots of suggestions on the WMF talk page [5], and in some cases some pretty frank criticisms. They'll either be taken on board or they won't. Our outstanding questions will either be answered on record or they won't.

In any case, don't worry, I'm not going to leave Wikipedia over this kerfuffle and no one else will either. I love writing articles, and my enthusiasm for that hasn't been diminished at all. I also enjoy working closely with a small annual class at an American music conservatory who use WP for their assignments. Working with those students and their professor has been very rewarding and fun! But if the IEP is rolled out again this Spring on the same scale, I'm not going to touch those articles. There's no way the fundamental problems with the program can be remedied in that short a time. I suspect you'll find several other editors taking a similar position, unless of course they're devotees of Sisyphus. :) Best, Voceditenore (talk) 10:33, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP-3

Kudpung's nemesis

You just have to see this. I practically stood by and watched as this user defiantly recreated for the umpteenth time a text from the same sources again and just changed a few words. I'm not absolutely sure this is an IEP student, but it has all the signs. In any case, it clearly proves the East-West cultural issue for the skeptics. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:16, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

They're a member of Wikipedia:India Education Program/Courses/Fall 2011/Computer Organization and Advanced Microprocessing. The stuff wouldn't by any chance be about printers, would it? Check out their user page created 5 minutes after your last deletion of their sandbox. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:34, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm leaving that user a talk page message myself. (Sorry for the stalking) - that's unacceptable. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 15:54, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey, I like talk page stalkers. :) I do it myself. Some of my most off-beat article creations were inspired from stuff I've found on MRG's and Kudpung's talk pages. I feel sorry for this student. As you can see from their user page, they're really struggling with writing in English but completely wasting their time. We already have lengthy articles on laser printing and dot matrix printing. Voceditenore (talk) 16:56, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I've found him on Facebook, sent him a message, will try and help him out myself. The Mangol (talk) 20:20, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I've reluctantly had to give this user a short block. In spite of Philippe's additional warning he recreated it again on his user page which I have deleted. The block is only for 60 hours, and the IP has not been blocked. He will not be able to create an alternative account. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:53, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I know it's no laughing matter, but I couldn't help chuckling at this latest round of "whack-a-mole". Don't increase the block, he did it three minutes before Philippe's warning. I'm also wondering if he knows what the orange message bar means. Voceditenore (talk) 10:10, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

There is something almost Pythonesque about it all. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:25, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Update on IEP

In case you are not informed, the following is a link to the complete list of students of the IEP.

• Wikipedia:India Education Program/Students

Sorry I haven't been of much help lately. Debastein1 (talk) 11:00, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP-4

We're all going here... fast

User talk:Chaitanya.gayke has gone and recreated the article in his user space yet again. The only way I can stop him from doing this is to block his IP. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:00, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

How could he do it while he was blocked??? I thought blocked editors could only edit their talk pages not their other user pages. Voceditenore (talk) 15:14, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I remember when I saw it again this morning, I nearly fell over, so I checked the history and it showed he had created it at 15:54, 27 October 2011 (UK time), i.e. before you blocked him. Voceditenore (talk) 15:20, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Another IEP user has been blocked for repeated copyvio: Swapnil.dahake. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

There are three editors from Wikipedia:India Education Program/Courses/Fall 2011/Machine Drawing and Computer Graphics "working" on this topic. (The other 2 are Gajugarve (talk · contribs) and Prasad dhole (talk · contribs). Between them they have created Advance jigs and fixtures (deleted twice as A10, but probably copyvio as well); ADVANCE JIGS AND FIXTURE (deleted for copyvio); and of course Advanced jigs and fixtures (deleted 5 times for copyvio). You might want to keep an eye on the other two, as I believe the course deadline is tomorrow (October 30th). Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:48, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

The pages are all salted now, but we'll have to keep an eye open for other new title variations. This may also involve running the occasional search for pages that include the words jig, advance, advanced, fixture, fixtures, etc, and their various capitalisations. Blocking the college IP for a few days didn't have any effect at all so I unfortunately believe that it's high time to start making an example of someone to really demonstrate to the students that they must not mess with Wikipedia. The next phase of this programme is due to start in January, and I'm far from confident that things will have changed much by then. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:14, 29 October 2011 (UTC

January??? On the same scale??? In the same topic areas???? Tell me you're joking. Voceditenore (talk) 14:33, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

The course deadline ain't tomorrow I believe, some of the articles like mine have been evaluated, but the prof told me the final evaluation of all articles is around our endsem exams, Nov 18 or so. --The Mangol (talk) 14:45, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

AFAIK, yes, January, but it's been a couple of years since I last worked for any length of time in India so I can't remember off hand how their academic year is split up. The subject material will depend entirely on what colleges are drawn into the next phase of the scheme of things. Let's hope it's a school of medicine - I know some people here who are just chomping at the bit to patrol medical pages. This parrot is nailed to it's perch.. .Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:07, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP-5

Hi. We now have IEP campus ambassadors patrolling new pages and letting unsourced BLPs through. I'l be checking more thoroughly today. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:15, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

I saw your note on the editor's page. I added references to it, so it's OK now. I'm wondering if the NPP instructions should be changed. They currently say:

"Unsourced biographies of living people created after 18 March 2010 can be proposed for deletion using the "sticky prod" process..."

It makes it seem optional. Perhaps replace with should or must? Best, Voceditenore (talk) 07:41, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Ooh! let's not go down that road again - there were over 5,000 words spilled on the BLPPROD development discussion in Feb 2010 over the very use of those modals. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:05, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, well then. Interestingly, the PROD template uses "must have references", but the enforcement of the must is only a maybe. Typical Wikipedia nuttiness. ;-) I guess you can't fault NPPs for taking the can at its word. Maybe suggest that if not PRODDing, they must minimally add Template:BLP unsourced? At least it'll end up in the right category.

I'm off for a couple of days... looking after the granddaughters. But I did leave a couple of strongly worded notes yesterday at the IEP talk page and at the WMF IEP page about how they really need to do something about that "student list" they provided. I find it very disappointing that even at this late stage no one there seems to have a minimal clue what's needed and why. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 06:12, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, you're so lucky, my grandchildren live in France. Bit to far to go and look after them for a couple of days! You're right about no clue, I've just deleted a mainspace sandbox by one IEP student for the third time, and another is going through the 'pedia putting welcome templates on users who have never edited. Take a well earned rest, and thank you for all your hard work on this issue - your devotion to Wikipedia and opera is unprecedented, in particular when singing about daisies. Perhaps you could take a moment to cogitate upon the other thing I keep badgering you about ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:30, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Kudpung, could you please inform any of us CAs when you find things like IEP students creating mainspace sandboxes and stuff like that, its hard to keep track of everyone, so when someone strays off the track, its hard finding them. Just put a link when you mention them so that its easy for us ;)--The Mangol (talk) 12:18, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problems

(Wikipedia:India Education Program/Courses/Fall 2011/Computer Organization and Advanced Microprocessing)

Please can you take a look and address the copyvio problems created by some of the students on this programme? --Biker Biker (talk) 14:08, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello Biker Biker. I have nothing to do with that course or the India Education Program. I'm just an editor who has been helping clean up the copyright mess it's generated. See Wikipedia Talk:India Education Program. I'm basically away from my desk until tomorrow. If you have a specific article you'd like me to look at for you I'd be happy to do it. I'm quite experienced at finding copyvio and tracing the source. But I normally edit in other areas of Wikipedia and I can't take on that whole class or even a significant portion of it. Have you tried contacting the Online Ambassadors for that course? They're listed here. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 07:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

IEP clean up

Hi. If you are working on IEP clean up, for easy checking and follow up of students and their articles, please see:

IEP student and article lists and how to use them

If you are not working on this clean up, please pass this message along to anyone you know who is. Thanks, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:11, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps I ought to pop over to Pune and give these folks a hand. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:18, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Better to shut down the entire project. --Biker Biker (talk) 10:36, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh, its done already, I'm gonna sleep for 8 hours today after 2 months. :) --The Mangol (talk) 16:20, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The IEP program has been scrapped for my college, the one with the most copyvios and other violations previously unknown to the Wiki community :P, its a breather for all of us :D The Mangol (talk) 15:31, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

WOOT! --Biker Biker (talk) 16:08, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Invitation to talk

Would you be willing to communicate via email about some of the issues you've been working on with me at mdenniswikimedia.org? I've spoken with Kudpung, but I'd really to talk a bit more to you to get some feedback on the problems we've encountered with the IEP. You've been in the trenches deep on this one, and I would really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you about it. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 10:57, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Golly, this is a coincidence - I was about to leave a message here and I saw Maggie's post above. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:07, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Re: IEP article : Corporate social responsibility at Hyundai

Thanks much. I have been bit busy offwiki and not been able to do as much I wished to cleanup. Thanks again for your help in merging that. Srikanth (Logic) 13:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

IEP

Hi Voce. I see you don't appear to subscribed to the Signpost. This might interest you, and as no comments from you were featured, you may wish to leave a something in the comments section. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Back from WP:Wikibreak

Hey Voceditenore,

My exams got over and hence I am back from WP:Wikibreak. Will need sometime to get updated as to what exactly happened. Saw there was a CCI also. In the mean time, if you need any help searching for copyvios or anything related to IEP, please inform me, and I will see what I can do asap.

Regards, --Debastein1 (talk) 06:25, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi. If you want to get up to date, this might interest you. I'm now back to doing other work (I've spent nearly a month on the IEP already), but don't hesitate to ask Voceditenore for some work to do, she's still holding the fort and doing an excellent job and I'm sure she needs a lot of help. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:42, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Email contact

Hello, Voceditenore, I am an editor of the Wikipedia Signpost writing a story on the India Education Program, and was advised that you might have some insight to share on the situation. I've already interviewed the consultant for the program, and was going to email you for a response, but you email is disabled. Please get in touch if you are interested in participating. Thanks, Skomorokh 13:06, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't know what to say more

HiVoce, take a look at this (thread is 'IEP help' is the link doesn't work), and then this (thread is 'USEP' if the link doesn't work) . Mike's a bit late to the party, but his intentions are in the right direction. I'm now more convinced than ever that not only do the organisers not have any experience at all at NPP, but also that they still fully fail to understand its importance and what it's for. Maggie has a heart of gold, but from what I've understood, her hands are rather tied. I think I really need to take a break from all Global Education Programme issues - it's starting to pray on my emotions, which is something that as a volunteer, Wikipdia is not supposed to do.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:04, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

India and copyright detection tips

Thank you very much, Voceditenore. I've been plowing through Indian student articles for a few hours now, and have a headache. Fortunately, many of the articles on obscure (and non-notable) computer programming topics have been redirected to more comprehensive and stable articles monitored by qualified editors. A sad situation, overall. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:12, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Request for Time: India Education Program Learnings

Hi. I'm writing to request a favor. The India Education Program pilot is concluding in Pune, India. It has been extraordinarily challenging and a series of learnings have emerged from the pilot that we intend to take on board to inform the way forward. I had promised an honest, open and comprehensive review. There are multiple ways that we are trying to collate and distill these learnings. One of these is that the Foundation has commissioned a study to do in depth interviews with a wide variety of folks who were directly or indirectly involved in the pilot. The include discussions with students, Ambassadors, faculty as well as members of the global community such as yourself. I thought it would be really particularly useful if we could get your views. You have been involved in the project (albeit not as part of the formal project structure.) I thank you for your involvement. You have made some interesting and insightful comments in the discussions you have participated in. Would you be willing and available for the person working on this study so that she can get your feedback and suggestions and comments? If so, would you let me know on my talk page? Do also let me know how I can have her reach out to you. Many thanks in advance. Hisham (talk) 09:58, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Replied here. Voceditenore (talk) 18:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Learning points

There is of course no mention of any support that may/will be needed from the regular clean-up corps. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:26, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Pune pilot analysis plan

Hi! As you were very active in discussions about the India Education Program's Pune pilot, I wanted to draw your attention to Wikipedia:India_Education_Program/Analysis, a page that documents our analysis plan for the next few months. I encourage you to join the discussion if you have any thoughts. -- LiAnna Davis (WMF) (talk) 23:01, 1 December 2011 (UTC)