User talk:Mark Marathon

Welcome!

Hello, Mark Marathon, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might find helpful:

• Introduction
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style
• Your first article
• Also feel free to make test edits in the sandbox.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our help pages, and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to leave me a message or place "{{helpme}}" on this page and someone will drop by to help. You can also contact me if you wish by clicking "talk" to the right of my name. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:49, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks...

...for your contribution to the article Dingo! Chrisrus (talk) 01:11, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

...and your more recent edit to adjust the "WP:UNDUE weight" given to older taxonomies the article Dingo! Chrisrus (talk) 15:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

By the way, I think there may be a similar "WP:UNDUE weight" problem at the article New Guinea Singing Dog that could use a little of your WP:NPOV attention in much the same way. If New Guinea Singing Dog Warriors give you a hard time, stay frosty like Mr. Spock! Keep up the good work! Chrisrus (talk) 15:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Assorted info

G'day Mark, there are a few of us interested in Aussie flora - I'm in Sydney, Melburnian (talk · contribs) is in Victoria, Hesperian (talk · contribs) is in WA and Poyt448 (talk · contribs) is also in Sydney and likes rainforest flora. I can show you a few templates to bolster articles with. Also take a look at T:TDYK. If you start an article and buff it up to 1500 bytes/300 words, you can submit for a shot of 6 hours on the main page (with an interesting hook). I will see what I can do with any of yours. Then, if you want the stuff to keep, buffing to Good or Featured status acts like a "stable revision" that folks have agreed on. For an example, I have Banksia marginata as a candidate currently - see its talk page. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:16, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Page titles

Hi Mark, I've come across your recently created lists of Acacia species and would like to remind you that per the WP:Naming conventions we use lower cases for all words in the article titles, except for proper names. I've moved your lists to new titles but for future pages you might want to go with lower case titles as well. Happy editing, De728631 (talk) 21:59, 31 May 2011 (UTC) Thanks.Mark Marathon (talk) 22:00, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

May 2011

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, one or more of the external links you added do not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Wikipedia is not a collection of links; nor should it be used as a platform for advertising or promotion, and doing so is contrary to the goals of this project. Because Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you.

Link information
greenmedinfo.com: Linksearch en - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • MER-C Cross-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Local - COIBot-XWiki - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.org • Live link: http://www.greenmedinfo.com

See also WP:COI in case it might apply. --Ronz (talk) 22:17, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Casuarina

Hi Mark, I changed the wording in the intro to better reflect the statement in the reference that the native status of this species in Madagascar in doubtful. 'Possibly native' doesn't accurately express this doubt, but rather makes it seem that it is relatively likely that the species is native. This is an important distinction as it has implications for the native range of the species, and reading that they are 'possibly native' to Madagascar is certainly odd and needs more explanation. I think this is worth a few extra words. Could also move this further down to 'distribution and habitat', but it should definitely be included. Let me know your thoughts, I'll look for them here. Cheers! Rainbowwrasse (talk) 21:46, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Santos Reyes

Sorry Mark, I didn't mean to over-ride your undo of my edits on Santos Reyes. I hadn't looked at the history when I did it, so I assumed that I hadn't pressed the final "OK" on the edits. That's why I re-did the edits. I don't think I actually eliminated anything in the previous version, just reorganized. However, I am not that experienced with Wikipedia and I think my mistake was to do too much in one single edit. The practice seems to work more incrementally. Anyway, it's not my intention to get into an edit war with you, so apologies again if it seemed that way.

Carbon flux - Tropical rainforest

That was fast. I've removed the section under dispute as the editing group has not responded to your talk page concerns. If the section misrepresents the reference - then I'd say remove it. You are welcome to rewrite it in compliance with the reference. Vsmith (talk) 12:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Paper daisy

Thanks for this - I was hangin' for a wild photo rather than cultivar - can you note where it was taken? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:07, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Done.Mark Marathon (talk) 12:40, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

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2,4-D author COI

Hi Mark Marathon,

I've posted on the 2,4-D talk page about the Dow Chemical study. I'm interested in your feedback.

– monolemma t – 21:09, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Albizia canescens for DYK?

Hello, Mark. Thank you for writing up the article on the Australian tree Albizia canescens. Please be encouraged to nominate this article for DYK on MainPage when you are done with the typing. A nomination needs to be posted on T:TDYK by August 29th (the fifth day after the creation of this wikiarticle). Good Luck. --PFHLai (talk) 02:54, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Tree

Do not restore the hidden text of sarcastic and belittling comments on Tree (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Yes the article needs work, but those hidden comments are not an appropriate approach to addressing the issues. If you have productive comments, take them to the article talk page. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

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DYK for Myoporum montanum

The DYK project (nominate) 00:04, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Capparis lasiantha

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:03, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorghum

Hi. May I ask why do you keep removing the manufactured sorghum example? Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 19:52, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Is it perhaps because you are uncertain that "massaggo" is sorghum? Because it in fact is (c.f. [1]). Please at least provide a rationale for the removal since you did not do so in either of your edit summaries. Regards, Middayexpress (talk) 15:52, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Eucalyptus cambageana

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:24, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	I award you this barnstar for: For being in 2 edit wars then coming back by making an many articles! IanMurrayWeb (talk) 06:32, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

RfC on Glass is a liquid misconception

(Note: I'm listing this on the talk pages of all editors active at Talk:List of common misconceptions for the last two weeks).

I started an RfC on the "glass is a liquid" issue that caused the edit war leading to protection status. Your comments would be appreciated, so that we can build a consensus and avoid further edit warring. siafu (talk) 20:52, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Third opinion

Hi Mark! Thanks for helping out on Al-Ahliyya Amman University. I'm going to let it sit fo a bit longer before doing anything, but hopefully that will break the deadlock. Your help is much appreciated - when we get stuck in these sorts for two-way deadlocks, I'm generally not worried about which way we end up going, but we do need to go somewhere. :) - Bilby (talk) 10:41, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Al-Ahliyya Amman University

When you expressed your opinion, did you consider the section WP:ABOUTSELF of the Verifiability policy? --Bob K31416 (talk) 07:52, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Cord Meyer

Hi, Mark Marathon. Thanks for the third opinion. An idea of how to provide neutrally worded text would be appreciated if you have the time. By the way, my inquiry was actually due to the section above to which you responded; however, it appears as though that has been resolved in that the other user didn't click on page 2 of the source that was provided. Cheers! Location (talk) 02:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Articles with your good photos and links to the Australian Tropical Rainforest Plants identification system.

G’day Mark Marathon,

I’m a field botanist–ecologist–naturalist (and database, GIS) professional, from the temperate rainforests & Euc. forests country of far eastern Victoria—my nature farm home base—currently learning some of the Wet Tropics forests, living in that region.

Regarding the articles you’ve created or largely updated, including your great photos—especially thank you for all the your great photos added, some of them positively fantastic/lovely. If a chance, I’d love some more too, but don’t 'wanna' ask too much, as i appreciate the massive voluntary work already done of the photos you’ve made freely available to all. Just to let you have awareness of the especially glaringly missing photos of significant Australian Wet Tropics rainforests plants: Stockwellia quadrifida, Austrobaileya scandens and Gymnostoma australianum (etc.).

Anyway, to the point of this talk section;

Please, do you mind me updating the citations or external links to the Australian Tropical Rainforest Plants identification system that you’ve made in those articles? (About 26 articles I’ve counted.)

I have created a quicker, easier and more efficient template for us all to use. Please see and freely utilise it—the {{RFK6.1}} template. ——--macropneuma 01:58, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

No response! I’m tired of waiting while my above message gets ignored. Good photos deserve good reference sources, well cited. ——--macropneuma 02:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

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Desert Oak

Hi Mark, lets not get into a stupid edit war over this. A Google search for "desert oak" combined with either "Allocasuarina decaisneana" or "Acacia coriacea" will certainly bring up plenty of hits but this does not prove anything. Searching for "holden monaro" and "desert oak" gets hits on Google (interestingly the only one of those that specifies the species refers to Allocasuarina decaisneana). Referring to an authoritative text carries far more weight when it comes to an encyclopaedic work, and as it turns out I have found one to support your assertion - a 1986 version of Flora of South Australia includes desert oak among the names of Acacia coriacea, so I will add that reference. However we still need to mention that the name is usually applied to the Allocasuarina as is shown by most recent Australian flora guides, both on line and hard copy that I have access to. Djapa Owen (talk) 13:53, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Would you please help me out by showing me where I claimed that a Google search for "Acacia coriacea" & "desert oak" comes up with no hit at all?

Would you also please point out where the relevant links from ANBG (searching ANBG for desert oak comes up with both species with the primary common name of A. coriacea listed as wirwewood), CSIRO (do you mean [2] which lists the trade name for A. coriacea as desert oak and the common name as dogwood?), Royal Botanic Gardens ([3] gives the primary commobn name as wirewood, ABRS (Isn't that ANBG? Are you referring to them twice?) are? They are not coming up in my searches, at least not on the first several pages.

As for search engine hijackers, there is no need to get sarcastic. And your assertion that the range of desert oak is negligible is interesting, if you compare [4] and [5] both species have ranges bigger than Queensland.

You will see in my citations of Jessop that I gave the page numbers so I will not repeat them. The precise quotes are as follows: "1. A. decaisneana (F. Muell.)L. Johnson, J.Adelaide Bot.Gard. 6:74(1982). Desert oak, Desert sheoak." thus listing only two common names and leading with desert oak, and for the acacia; "21. A. coriacea DC., Prod. 2:451 (1825). Wire-wood, desert oak, wiry wattle."

See also p41 of part 1, "The principal criteria used in selecting common names were that names should be those most likely to be widely known, helpful in indicating relationships,derived, where appropriate from well-known scientific generic names and including names used interstate even if not currently used in South Australia. It was also agreed to accept names currently used overseas and to exclude names used for unrelated species or likely to cause offence.

"Names (both generic and specific) selected by the committee are printed in bold."..."Those not selected by the committee are printed in italics."

Desert oak is printed in bold in the entry for decaisneana and in italics for coriacea indicating that the committee selected it as the common name for decaisneana and not for coriacea.

This discussion should really be placed on the talk page for coriacea so all interested parties can see it and not have to trawl through our respective talk pages. Djapa Owen (talk) 00:42, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Kangaroo#Geographic or political locale

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Kangaroo#Geographic or political locale. stillnotelf is invisible 17:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Third Opinion project

Thank you, Mark, for helping to improve Wikipedia and making it a nicer place to work by giving a Third Opinion. Just a quick reminder: When you do give an opinion, please remember to remove the listing from the 3O page. I usually remove them when I decide to give the opinion so that some other volunteer won't try to take it at the same time and waste their (or my) effort. Again, thanks for helping. Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 20:51, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer

Mark, I appreciate your answering my request for a third opinion. I accept what you say, and will take forward the issues re my deleted contributions. Edit war averted!

Thank you

23:02, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Materialscientist. I noticed that you recently removed some content from Tropical rainforest without explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry: I restored the removed content. If you would like to experiment, you can use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! Materialscientist (talk) 00:26, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Bushland

Could you please not remove sourced material from such a short article? Please take it to the talk page, wait for consensus and then make changes. My view for such short articles is that expansion is more important than getting every detail exact and precise. Do you disagree? Hopefully I have provided some clarification regarding the Brisbane Bushland program. It was just an example, more should be included. - Shiftchange (talk) 01:55, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

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FYI:

FYI: → http://austronesian.linguistics.anu.edu.au/historydownloads/Barton_etal_2012_QI_intro.pdf

Stylosanthes

Every large genus is faced with the choices of non-notable redlinks, bias in selection, or no mention of subordinate taxa at all. Isn't imperfect information better than no information these cases?Masebrock (talk) 07:35, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Your ant edits

Hi, I have created a section here to discuss images at the Green-head ant article. I have recommended using a non-cropped main photo in the infobox. Please try to come to consencus as desired. Thanks. ☺ Gryllida (talk) 06:00, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

You have a new message in the section I linked above, please, take a look at it and the article, and respond there. ☺ Thanks! Gryllida (talk) 00:11, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

1RR rule on abortion-related articles

I see you've received numerous warnings about edit-warring in the recent past. However, I don't see that anyone has formally notified you that abortion-related articles are subject to a 1RR rule (that is, no more than 1 revert by any editor within a 24-hour period). You appear to have racked up three fairly quick reverts at sex-selective abortion. Going forward, please make an effort to respect the 1RR rule on abortion-related articles, as well as a greater effort to respect this site's policies against edit-warring in general. MastCell ^Talk 21:46, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

3O

Your edit-summaries did not explain who is going to render the 3O. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 06:58, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

regarding your input on article....

Thank you, Mark, for your consideration to this matter. What you need to understand about your point of "verifiability, not truth" is the simple fact that NOT ALL sources and refs in the world agree with this dogmatic statement and wording and position that Greek Orthodoxy traces directly from the first-century apostles. It's NOT "verified" in that real sense. Also, as I said, those refs that "K" drummed up do not all say clearly what he thinks they said, and even if they do, those refs ARE NOT NEUTRAL ENCYCLOPEDIAS, as far as wording. WP is supposed to convey neutrality in tone, with things like this. This nonsense view that Greek Orthodoxy is right from the Apostles, and that "making the sign of the cross" was a practice of the Apostles is NOT EVEN CLOSE to "sky blue". It's ridiculous to even think that. No matter what refs say this (of course there are people who think the same way "K" does...that's a straw-man...), because we're to ignore accomplished writer and theologian Dr Robert Morey, who TOTALLY disagrees and disavows and rejects Greek Orthodoxy as ever being from the Apostles, or as even being Biblically Christian at all? Read Morey's book (there's a ref right there) "Is Eastern Orthodoxy Christian?" As one of a number of examples. You think James White believes that Greek Orthodoxy is traced directly from the Apostles?

Again, this is NOT "verifiable" in the real total sense. Plenty of refs find the notion false, if not absurd. Is Wikepedia to ignore them, for "I don't like" reasons by a certain editor? And cherry-pick refs that suit K's own agenda and bias, for "I like reasons"? That's clearly against WP policy, against POV pushing, and against how WP is supposed to be very NPOV in matters like this. You don't see me putting in the article stuff like "Greek Orthodox believe they trace right from the apostles, but of course that's false"...do you?

I'm leaving and making the wording NEUTRAL AND UNBIASED. Dr K is not...and then desperately appeals to sources that back up his POV...as if that ultimately means anything on WP, especially if he ignores and disparages any source that rejects that notion, by calling it uhm "fringe". Fail. Let me ask you...Mark....is there something so terrible and wrong with saying "some historians believe Greek Orthodox trace directly from the apostles" or that "it is claimed by some that making the sign of the cross is from the first-century apostles"?? Is that a bad thing to word it neutrally? When so many people in the world (lay-people as well as professional scholars and writers) simply don't believe or buy that idea? I'm only interested in NPOV...in any article on WP...not trying to diss anyone or anything. And that's important. Regards. Gabby Merger (talk) 07:52, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

My response to your comment on my page

I never said that those refs can't be used to make the general point or statement. That's fine. What you're not grasping or maybe just not understanding where I'm coming from (or the WP policy regarding this) now is that it doesn't matter how those refs word things, as those refs in question are NOT neutral encyclopedias, and those refs are valid to bring in (no problem) only as far as giving the point that "it's believed"...when dealing with cases like this. I know about "verifiability, not truth". I told you appreciated your time and attention to this matter, but now you seem to missing the point yourself, about simple NPOV wording...that's all. It's not about which ref can or can't be used, per se, to make the general point. But for WP to state dogmatically is another thing. Other refs (do you even agree with that), don't even come close to agreeing with the words or notion that "Greek Orthodoxy came directly from the first century apostles" or "making the sign of the cross was from the apostles" etc? I don't disagree that those refs can be used, but the point is neutral tone...and that WP is not to endorse one position like that, especial in cases like this. Regards. Gabby Merger (talk) 08:46, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

January 2014

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response.....

Hello. What you don't understand, Mark, is that "alternative views" ARE at least some published by reliable sources. What part of that is so hard for you or Dr. K. to believe or grasp? Seriously. I put in a link already, of Doctor Morey source, as just one example. That will be called "undue weight" or "fringe"? Seriously.

Just about all Protestant writers in the world disavow the notion that "making the sign of the cross came right from the apostles". That notion right there, for example, should be stated in a neutral WP article as unquestioned fact? Where is that? And no, you're wrong, NPOV is paramount when it comes matters like this. This is NOT a "sky blue" situation (regardless of what Dr. Kr. OR you seem to think). it's NOT all reliable sources in the world that state this view as "unambiguous fact". A number do of course. I never denied that. But most or all of Protestant scholarship does not really hold to that in quite that sense. Many disavow it completely. We can't call Robert Morey, Rob Zins, or James White "fringe" or "undue weight" simply because we feel their view on this is irrelevant, or not to our liking. I would not be going on like this IF this was a genuine "sky blue" situation. But "making the sign of the cross was a practice of or came directly from the Apostles" notion is not even close to that.

There are plenty of writers and sources that refute or just disagree with Greek Orthodox claims on this. That shouldn't be ignored or denied. And it can't be said in circular argument that it's "undue weight". How so, when there are SO MANY people on earth who either doubt or outright disavow the Greek Orthodox claims?

For instance, again, you honestly think, for example, that this notion that "making the sign of the cross" was something taken directly from the Apostles, when there's no real evidence for that...or when so many Protestant scholars (TONS of them) flatly reject that notion? That's NOT "undue weight". So, no, YOU'RE wrong on that. NPOV is important with this. Period. As I said though, already, I won't be on the merry-go-round forever on this. Regards. Gabby Merger (talk) 08:56, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

How so, when there are SO MANY people on earth who either doubt or outright disavow the Greek Orthodox claims? In Wikipedia we don't go by people on earth, we go by reliable sources. The names you have supplied are those of baptist apologists. It is their calling to oppose the other denominations including the Orthodox church. These are not reliable, neutral sources to determine the historical details of any Church which they oppose by definition. You have to do better than that and find neutral, academically accepted, reputable sources which evaluate the history of the Orthodox Church. Nothing "circular" about that. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 21:28, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

The red herring of the sign of the cross

Hi Mark. The dispute, as you know, is not about the sign of the cross. It is about the weasel modifiers "are believed to" regarding the Apostolic origins of the church. The sign of the cross is a red herring, which I never raised and didn't even know it existed in the text until it was raised by the other user. In any case, as you can verify by reading the article, in the article text the use of the sign of the cross is qualified by the verb "claim": Among these traditions are claimed to be the use of incense, Liturgical Worship, Priesthood, making the sign of the cross, etc. so it is not stated as fact as claimed in the section above. But again, the issue is not with the sign of the cross but with the weasel modifiers and I want to reiterate and make clear that I am not interested in the issue of the sign of the cross but only in the issue of the weasel modifiers. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 16:01, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi again Mark. Thank you for removing most of the weasel modifiers. However the last one "are believed to be traced back" still remains. It is supposed to read "can be traced back": [6]. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 06:29, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

"making the sign of the cross" NOT in any of the refs...

sorry, Mark, you never addressed (you're not always around on that Talk page), the specific matter of dogmatically stating that "making the sign of the cross" can be traced to the Apostles. You somehow seemed to believe that that was also sourced, even though it actually wasn't. The simple fact that NONE of the sources put in (and there quite a few) actually stated that specific thing. I did not remove that statement, but I placed a citation needed tag only for the "making of the sign of the cross" statement...as not one of the refs given support that specific sentence, as even admitted by Dr.K.... NONE of the sources actually say that...for that specifically. Not sure why you thought that. You were going on and on to me about "if it's sourced it does not need to be stated neutrally" and "it should be stated as fact if it's sourced", but it seems you never bothered to actually see (unless I missed something somewhere in any of the refs) that the "making the sign of the cross coming directly from the Apostles" is not really supported or specifically stated in refs. Hence my placement (at least) of the citation needed tag. Regards. Gabby Merger (talk) 06:10, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

refs...

Hello to Mark and Dr. K. I know that the discussion is pretty much over, and some decisions were already reached. Though it's arguable that it should have been decided just by two editors, who may be over-reaching a bit with the notion that all reliable sources in the world state the Greek Orthodox position of "tracing directly to the Apostles", regardless of the clear fact that that notion has been denied or challenged by respected theologians and writers. But because Mark and Dr. K. insisted I provide refs that give the analysis that Greek Orthodoxy (or Eastern Orthodoxy) does NOT trace itself directly from the Apostles, etc, I pointed (and even linked) to Robert Morey's book "Is Eastern Orthodoxy Christian". As one example. I already knew that that would pretty much be shooed away as "not reliable" or maybe even "fringe". Which is why I never really bothered elaborating Morey's words, or his book...in any of my comments. I figured, why waste time, when it the quotes would be dismissed anyway? But I figure why not just finally give you a direct quote from his book, instead of simply citing the book generally. Here's one of many quotes that challenge or deny Greek Orthodox claims to Apostolic origins.

Quote:

"The historical reality is that Eastern Orthodoxy does not represent the Early Church that came into existence form the preaching of the Apostles."

(Robert Morey, Is Eastern Orthodoxy Christian?, pages 20-21, 2007)

Also, a ref and quote that you MIGHT consider “less fringe”...

“...the claim to unbroken continuity is appealing....We would contest this claim on a number of fronts. It appears to at least some of us that this claim does not adequately account for the substantial differences between ancient practice and Byzantine innovations and embraces an unrealistic ecclesiology.”

(Michael Horton, Three Views On Eastern Orthodoxy and Evangelicalism, 2004) Gabby Merger (talk) 05:29, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

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Tea Tree Oil

Hi Mark,

I understand you were mislead recently regarding the effectiveness Tea Tree Oil. I am going to be making some changes to the wiki based on two recent Pubmed secondary source review articles. These articles reflect that TTO is effective in treating infections and is safe to use externally with certain precautions (e.g. as any medication). Here are the articles if you'd like to review them and participate. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1288602/Tea%20tree%20oil%20in%20dermatology.pdf https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1288602/A%20review%20of%20the%20toxicity%20of%20Melaleuca%20alternifolia.pdf Gsonnenf (talk) 16:39, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Try collaboration

...instead of reverting, per {{sofixit}} Explain yourself and add material to improve things, don't try to bully other people into doing your work for you. Montanabw^(talk) 04:25, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014

You have been blocked temporarily from editing for disruptive and repeated tagging of articles, WP:BATTLE and WP:POINT behaviour. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.  DP 10:33, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Mark Marathon (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

Seriously? Another poster persistently reverts my minor edits. He openly engages in tendentious editing by swamping the page with cite tags. He unambiguously breaks the 3RR which alone is supposed to result in an automatic block. He refuses to explain on the talk page why he has reverted my edits. None of this is even open to dispute. And when I report him in order to avoid an edit war, I am blocked and nothing happens to the other editor. And by coincidence this other posters is friends with two administrators. If this block remains and/or the other editor remains unpenalised you have simply proven what so many editors are saying: that being friends with Administrators produces favoured results on Wikipedia. So much for neutrality. I don't actually expect anything to change as a result of this appeal of my block. But maybe whichever Admin reads it might take a second to think about what happens here and what it does to Wikipedia content. As commonplace and blatant as this favouritism of Admins has become, refusing to even enforce the 3RR is something I have never seen before. That was always a bright line. Not any more it appears. So much for neutrality. Mark Marathon (talk) 12:05 pm, Today (UTC+0)

Decline reason:

I am declining your unblock request because it does not address the reason for your block, or because it is inadequate for other reasons. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that

• the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Wikipedia, or
• the block is no longer necessary because you
  1. understand what you have been blocked for,
  2. will not continue to cause damage or disruption, and
  3. will make useful contributions instead.

Please read the guide to appealing blocks for more information. Yunshui 雲‍水 12:37, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I've not seen your 3RR filing, nor do I intend to search for it. You're making accusations in your unblock that without proof are considered to be personal attacks - especially suggesting that I'm involved in some kind of friendship thingy. You'll need to carefully re-read WP:GAB and amend the above - look especially at wP:NOTTHEM. I would eagerly anticipate seeing your explanation for your brutal tag-bombing behaviour, and how it's NOT considered to be battleground and edit-warring behaviour (remember, if you added it and it was removed, you're NOT permitted to add it back or else you're edit-warring after only 2 edits). Your edit-summary that taunted someone to "suffer the effects" pretty much solidified the pointy/battle actions - you were intentionally forcing someone into a 3RR situation, which makes it non-brightline DP 12:12, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Would you please provide diffs that justify this block, since you haven't done so either in the block log or here, and you say at AN3 it was for something other than the edit war involving User:Montanabw? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 14:38, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

The statement in the block log, and a very quick perusal of the recent edits are blatantly obvious. There's quite obviously no need to post individual diff's with a quick review of the last couple of dozen edits DP 15:08, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

The last couple of dozen edits you refer to are mostly regarding the edit war on Rangeland initiated by User:Montanabw. But in the current AN3RR thread discussing the edit war at Rangeland you say, "I have just come across this after having blocked User:Mark Marathon for other reasons earlier this morning. This does not mean there's a boomerang in play, nor does it mean that this 3RR should be ignored as there may be other blocks required. As I have already acted on one of the parties in another manner, I will not investigate this report myself." So, if it's not for edit warring, what's it for? If it is for edit warring, why didn't you block the editor who initiated it?

In the block log you say, "disruptive and releated tagging of articles, WP:BATTLE and WP:POINT behaviour." Perhaps I missed it but I see no POINTY behaviour on Mark's part, though I see User:Montanabw splattering {{cn}} all over the article just to make a point. Tagging, especially restoring a well-deserved tag, is not a blockable offense, though repeatedly removing a long-standing tag and not taking the dispute to the talk page (as User:Montanabw did) is a breach of BRD and when done by an experienced editor is clearly bullying and disruptive. So, diffs of the actual behaviour that warranted the block, especially of the "tag bombing" you refer to earlier in this thread, and an explanation of why you didn't sanction User:Montanabw who did the actual "tag bombing", would be appreciated.

Regarding, "There's quite obviously no need to post individual diff's..." actually there is, when an editor in good standing asks you in good faith to explain your use of the admin bit. Sorry. It is an important part of the job. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 15:30, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Six times in six days, Mark Marathon has placed a {{fact}} tag on the sentence

• "Rangelands support Australia's valuable mining industry ($12 billion/yr), tourism ($2 billion/yr), pastoralism ($5.5 billion/yr – cattle $4.4 billion & sheep $1 billion)".

Yet that section (Australia) has a reference at the end to Ecologically Sustainable Rangeland Management (ESRM), Austraia. That page contains the sentence

• "Our rangelands support most of Australia's valuable mining industry ($12 billion/yr) and growing enterprises such as tourism ($2 billion/yr) yet the broadest land use in the Rangelands is pastoralism ($5.5 billion/yr – cattle $4.4 billion & sheep $1 billion)".

How can anybody who has read the reference request a citation for that sentence six times? That is despite edit summaries and even an html comment in the wikitext suggesting: <!--reference "ESRM" supports most of this entire section, read it-->. What has to be done to persuade Mark to read the sources and desist from spuriously adding these sort of tags? --RexxS (talk) 18:58, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

He didn't just tag that assertion six times, he tagged four other claims six times, too. And Montanabw removed them 6? 7? times. The edit war was over all five tags.

Though "spurious" can mean simply "plausible but false" it's other common meaning is "intended to deceive". I don't think Mark intended to deceive anyone here, do you? And you say "spuriously adding these sorts of tags": but only one tag was not justified. Mark was mistaken there. But not mistaken when he added the other four tags.

Mark should be more careful when tagging, and check the source at the end of a section, even if that source does not support most of the section, and Montanabw shouldn't just keep deleting {{fact}} tags without discussion when the tagger objects. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 19:55, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

For your information, Mark, RexxS here and User:Wehwalt at the AN3 discussion are old friends of Montanabw. There are cliques here. When one of a clique is criticised by or in a disagreement with another editor, members of their clique turn up as if by magic out of nowhere and begin a two minutes hate or if you're really threatening to their composure a hate week at you. Hence RexxS's use of "spurious" and his smearing your one mistaken tag over all five, and his "six times over six days" rhetoric. Don't take it personally, it's not about you. It's defending their own.

The editor who blocked you would have seen Montanabw's note on Mark Arsten's talk page wherein she snapped her fingers and demanded that one of her slavering poodles creep out of the woodwork and block someone who was annoying her. They've all got each other's talk pages on their watchlists, so a quiet note to Mark Arsten is actually a clarion call to all the mutual sycophants (mutual sycophancy? Is that an oxymoron?). But I love them all, really. And you will too, once you get the hang of things here. You can grow roses in this dung heap. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 20:34, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I would have seen what? Where? I do not have Mark Arsten's page on my watchlist, nor Montanabw's ... cannot imagine you'd think I would - I don't travel in their general locations. That's quite a bizarre suggestion DP 21:26, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes. That was foolish of me. Sorry. And I don't think you're a cabalist, actually. How did you come to notice this, by the way? (I saw it on Mark A's talk page, which is on my watchlist from when he leaped to Wehwalt's defense the last time I was torturing him.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 21:57, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

The situation this morning that led to the block? Oddly enough, monitoring "Recent Changes" I saw some rather nasty edit summaries. I stepped into my phonebooth, changed quickly, and flew on over. In the time it took me to review a whackload of additional related edits, this had escalated further and it cemented my initial analysis DP 22:05, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I still think that at least 4 of the tags weren't justifiable, given the ESRM source and the convention of leaving cites out of the lead (although I agree the content in the lead should be expanded and sourced in the body of the article). Mark's been around for almost three years now, so I would expect him to do due diligence on checking sources before asking for citations. As you imply, Anthony, it's a tough old wiki, so there are numerous loose groupings of editors who keep an eye on each others' talk pages. I must admit I didn't think of "intended to deceive" as a meaning of spurious and I apologise for giving that impression. I tend to use it as meaning "inauthentic", more like this. Still, Mark, once you get one of the tags so badly wrong, you can get into an argument where the other party can see you're wrong on that point and it becomes much more unlikely you'll arrive at a consensus. It's worth remembering that the {{fact}} tag has an optional |reason= parameter and the guidance at Template:Citation needed #Usage is handy to help you specify why you are challenging the verifiability of a given piece of text. --RexxS (talk) 21:15, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Well, 2 of them were clarification tags, and they definitely needed clarification - at least for me because they didn't make sense to me. And two of the three disputed facts were defining "rangeland" in a way that seemed weird (to me, but I know nothing about it) so expecting a good source seems reasonable to me. I agree with leaving inline citations out of the lede when the assertion is supported by a citation in the body of the article - but that was not the case here.

I really think Mark should be unblocked. I'm sure he's learned his edit-warring lesson by now. Haven't you, Mark? If somebody starts edit-warring unreasonably again, you'll take it to a noticeboard much sooner, won't you? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 21:57, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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Handling 'citation needed'

Hi, thanks for your efforts to improve the Tree article. Just to say, a citation needed tag is not a mandate for removal, just an indication that work needs to be done, and I'd indicated in my edit comment that I'd work on it. Anyway, no harm done, I've improved the text and added two citations.

The general point about citation needed tags is that they represent an undefined but not necessarily wrong situation: the text is unsupported, but may be correct (as this largely was) and requires attention. In this case, as in many others, just excising the uncited text leaves the article incomplete, weaker, and without an important bit of context (and a major wikilink).

Sometimes, excision is exactly the right action, as when someone has added nonsense, repeated something said elsewhere, made a libellous claim, and so on. That wasn't the situation here.

All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:54, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

My PO edits

Hello, these are the normal corroborative edits added to places in Australia. Thousands exist, so please desist from reverting. Cheers, Crusoe8181 (talk) 10:33, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Please don't revert without discussing

Indeed. DID YOU DISCUSS BEFORE REVERTING MY EDITS?? YOU DID NOT. OMF Crusoe8181 (talk) 11:23, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

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Do not initiate another edit war on Natural landscape

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rstafursky (talk • contribs) 11:45, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Mould

Following your sterling work on Tree (which I didn't always agree with but the end result seems to be good) I wondered if I might pick your brains on the article Mold. To me, as a non-expert mycologist, is simply a growth form of a whole range of fungi, and to categorise any particular fungi as a mould makes a whole range of presumptions including that there is a clear definition between what is and what is not a mould. I think that this article would benefit greatly from your acerbic brand of logical biological thinking. Regards  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   12:24, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Sports image

I have started a discussion over on the Australia article's talk page. Interested to hear your input. - HappyWaldo (talk) 08:34, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Replying to talk page comments

Please note that replying to comments made by other editors on talk pages by interweaving your reply into the middle of their post(s) is considered poor Wikiquette, as it disrupts the flow of the discussion and breaks the attribution of comments. It may be intelligible to some, but it is virtually impossible for the rest of the community to follow. I note that you've done this at Talk:Australia.[7] Could you please restore HappyWaldo's original post and refactor yours so we know what is being replied to? Thanks. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:35, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Oversimplification

Hello, i see that you reverted my most recent edit on the article for Mexico in wikipedia. Can you explain to me how it has to be written so it is not oversimplified anymore? The study says that three populations (Germans, Mexicans and Turks) were found to have the caucasian specific allele as opposed to asian and african populations and the three were classified as caucasians. Anything else to add? Aergas (talk) 00:32, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. ABHIJEET (talk) 06:08, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for volunteering at WP:3O

Hey there, I see you has answered some 3O posts in the past year. It's good to know that there are still active volunteers there. Sincerely, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 10:35, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Reaction please, if you can spare the time.

Hi Mark, I apologise for not responding to your communications, but time has not been much with me of late and you gave no indication of being in any hurry. I did however receive an RFC to a talk page at Talk:Metacompiler and took a quick look to see what it was about. I doubt I would have responded yet, even if I had the time, but after a short while I spontaneously thought of you. I certainly have never seen the like. So even with the subject matter beyond you, I would be interested in your reaction after you have sampled the talk page and cast an eye over article itself. I am at a bit of a loss what to do about it, or in fact whether to do anything, including giving my reaction to the RFC. All the best, JonRichfield (talk) 18:24, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

Hello, this is not the way to claim a statement is invalid. ~ R.T.G 20:41, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Signing posts

Hello Mark - it looks like you've left a fair few AfD comments today without signing them. I saw that you spotted it for one of them and went and signed it; just thought I'd leave you a friendly note to say that I think I've sorted all of the others for you, and asking you to be a little more careful in future. :) Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 23:49, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Result of your 3RR complaint

Please see the result of the complaint at WP:AN3#User:Tsavage reported by User:Mark Marathon (Result: Both warned). Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 15:50, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Darkness in El Dorado

Darkness in El Dorado has also been getting some edits that don't seem quite right to me. I haven't had a full chance to dig into them, but hope to soon and hope you might be able to chime in soon too. Thanks --Pengortm (talk) 06:01, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Napoleon Chagnon

You've now exceeded 3RR on that article, so please take a rest. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 06:49, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Heath

Hi Mark, I was reading Heath when 122 °C (252 °F) struck me as a bit hot even for a desert, and upon checking sources it seems that it's indeed more like 50 °C (122 °F). Digging into the history I found this edit of yours where it seems you wanted to swap units, but forgot to adapt the values, so I've taken the liberty of doing so myself. Just checking if that was indeed your intention. Cheers, benzband (talk) 18:34, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Khoikhoi

Hi, the user seems to have actually provided sources for the claims. Best, --Elitre (WPS) (talk) 10:55, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Melaleuca nervosa

Nice photo of Melaleuca nervosa habit - thanks Mark. Gderrin (talk) 23:46, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Caper

Hi, Mark. I see that you undid the category cleanup again at caper. I just wanted to stop by and point you toward WP:PLANTS/WGSRPD if you haven't already seen it. It's not necessarily a guideline or policy, but an explanation of how flora categories best work in practice. A species as widely distributed as Capparis spinosa is best represented by the highest level of flora category. This reduces the potential for overcategorization/category clutter while still accurately representing the distribution of the species. Is there any particular reason you disagree? Can you see why we would want to minimize the number of unnecessary categories? If, for example, that article were to be categorized in every country category (and other regions recognized by the World Geographical Scheme for Recording Plant Distributions), it would be in as many as fifty six flora categories. That's far too many. I have no problem using several small-region categories for locally restricted plants (say, to just three states or territories of Australia), but you have to admit that the current state of things at caper is a little out of hand. At the very least, please recognize that you don't want situations where the article is categorized in both the parent category and its subcategories (e.g. Flora of Europe and also Spain and Italy, but oddly no where else). I would very much like to revert to the cleaner version of my last edit if you don't have any objections. Cheers, Rkitko ^(talk) 00:03, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Melaleuca viridiflora - oops!

Hello Mark,

Thanks for picking up my mistake. I offer an excuse for my stupidity: I am pretty sure that the image is of Callistemon viridiflorus and I got the wires in my head crossed. I guess you know that when Lyndley Craven moved the callistemons into melaleuca, there already was a Melaleuca viridiflorus, so Callistemon viridiflorus became Melaleuca virens.

I wonder if you agree with me that the image is of Melaleuca virens, formerly (according to Craven) Callistemon viridiflorus? It was so labelled by the uploader (although he/she has mislabelled http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Callistemon_sp.-IMG_9178.JPG]).

Gderrin (talk) 01:06, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Callistemon/Melaleuca

Hello Mark,

I note your comments about duplicate articles on my talk page, however, I do not think it is acceptable to delete articles without first discussing any issues. The effect of reverting the pages I have written is to delete them. Many hours of work have been spent writing these and to have them deleted is frustrating in the extreme.

What does "pseudo-duplicated" mean? I have not duplicated anything. I have written articles on melaleucas without referring to any page about callistemons. If it is not appropriate to have an article on Callistemon brachyandrus as well as one on Melaleuca brachyandra for example, what gives anybody the right to delete one or the other without consultation or discussion as you have done? You have deleted start class or C-class articles and left Stubs!

You write "The taxonomy of Calistemon is controversial, but since we try to stick to APGIII we really shouldn't be using it." That sentence makes no sense to me - what is "it" that we shouldn't be using? All the articles I have written comply with APG111. The names used all appear in the Australian Plant Name Index.

You write "However you should never duplicate articles as you have done." Can you substantiate that statement? Even if Callistemon brachyandrus and Melaleuca brachyandra are "duplicate articles", what give anybody the right to delete the start class article and leave the stub? Your actions leave Wikipedia the poorer. For example, there is an article on Melaleuca acuminata but not Callistemon acuminatus. Do you intend to delete the former? If so, that would also leave Wikipedia the poorer. If not, how can you justify leaving it when you have deleted other articles about melaleucas that were formerly callistemons. Are you suggesting that all 50 or so of the articles I have written on melaleucas that are callistemon synonyms be deleted/reverted? The reference I am using is the book version of http://aciar.gov.au/publication/mn156. There is no equivalent, recently published book on callistemons.

You write "We can't have both articles in existence at the same time, it gets too messy." What's your definition of "messy"? Why can't we have both articles, especially when each acknowledges the existence of the other and the reasons for having both?

You write "Don't take that personally...". Mark, it is very difficult not to do so when many hours of work have been written off!

You write "We need more knowledgable Australian plant editors on Wikipedia." I do not know what you are suggesting by that, but your actions are likely to have the opposite effect.

Of course, there is an issue - a taxonomic one. Until the professionals come to an agreement, I do no see any reason why we cannot have articles on both alternative names.

I would ask you to replace the reverted articles and leave your remarks/suggestions/opinions on the relevant Talk page? That would be preferable to engaging in an edit war.

Gderrin (talk) 03:53, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your courteous reply Mark.

I agree with most of what you write. I think that you will agree that my articles duplicate only a few brief Callistemon pages. It seems to me that the simple solution is to merge what information there is on those pages into melaleuca articles and then to redirect the callistemon articles. A few (notably those described by Molyneux) do not seem to have a melaleuca equivalent and I have very little information on them.

Gderrin (talk) 07:07, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks again Mark.

Most (perhaps all) of the Callistemon pages that existed were written by User:Melburnian, so I have written to her/him asking for his/her opinion. Now all of the Callistemon pages have a page (except those that Craven seems to have ignored). My next job is to write the Callistemon page with the arguments for and against the move to Melaleuca. I have also added my username to the WikiProject Australian biota as you suggested, indicating my interest in the debate. It does not seem to be a page that has much action though. I will watch with interest.

Gderrin (talk) 04:00, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Glochidion Ferdinandi

Electra Navarone (talk) 06:02, 26 July 2015 (UTC) Nocturnal inhabitants of Glochidion Ferdinandi, Brushtail Possum (Trichosurus Vulpecula) and Ringtail Possum (Pseudocheirus peregrinus), located in Zillmere, Queensland.

• 
  Montage of images of possum inhabitants and foliage specimens of Glochidion Ferdinandi in Zillmere, Queensland
• 
  Brushtail Possum inhabitant and folivore of Glochidion Ferdinandi in Zillmere, Queensland
• 
  Ringtail Possum inhabitant and folivore of Glochidion Ferdinandi in Zillmere, Queensland

This is not original research, it is common knowledge throughout wildlife groups.

See also – Adding details

Re [8], WP:SEEALSO does encourage the addition of details to give context to the links. – Fayenatic London 12:31, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Acacia - Biblical Entheogens

Benny Shanon, Biblical Entheogens: A Speculative Hypothesis (Time and Mind: The Journal of Archaeology Consciousness and Culture, Volume I, Issue I, March 2008, pp. 51–74) [[9]] Dickie birdie (talk) 21:59, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Acacia

The additions there were both to non-RS sources. I got one, and someone else got the other. Thanks for the heads-up! I'll see if I can find something reliable. MSJapan (talk) 23:36, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

How are you going to remove the sprig of acacia on Hiram's grave from all Third Degree Tracing Boards? Has Albert Mackay become unreliable as well as Samuel Prichard overnight? Perhaps you need to alter the Benny Shanon Wiki article as well, since you are all panicking. Dickie birdie (talk) 02:50, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Just noticed - William Morgan is used as a reliable source in the Hiram Abiff Wiki article and you are complaining about the use of Samuel Pritchard. Dickie birdie (talk) 03:03, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

FYI I do not regard Lomas & Knight as reliable sources either. I always relied on material by Knoop, Jones & Hamer, and articles in AQC. Dickie birdie (talk) 03:18, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Irrelevant. We're not talking about Hiram Abiff, we're talking about acacia. Burger King sells chicken, too; it doesn't mean it's pertinent to an article about McDonald's. Morgan is relevant when talking about Morgan's work, not when making a gross generalization. Moreover, Mackey is not a "universal source"; people choose to use him if his material suits their purpose. You could have easily as well used Robert Freke Gould's or Coil's Encyclopedias, and the answer might be substantially different. I'd also add you used nothing from sources which you claim you rely upon.

What is pertinent, however, is that none of your additions even appear in the sources in which you claim them to be, and the sources themselves are malformed - I had to go look everything up elsewhere just to address the statements made. Further discussion will take place on the Talk:Acacia page, or not at all, and continued insertion of unsourced material will be considered vandalism and dealt with as such. You also appear to be misusing your user page as article space. MSJapan (talk) 05:25, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Eremophila maculata

Hello Mark,

Thanks for your thanks on Eremophila maculata.

I suppose you thought my image was incorrect because of the label in Wikimedia Commons? Actually it's not - I just made a mistake when I uploaded it to Wikimedia Commons. I photographed Eremophila glabra and Eremophila maculata (and Eremophila abietina) at the Australian Botanic Garden Mount Annan on Monday and mislabelled one image. The image I added to the Wikipedia page Eremophila maculata is definitely Eremophila maculata (and with the greatest respect!!) is superior to the one you've replaced it with. The specimens of both species (E. maculata and E. glabra) which I photographed were labelled and the labels were confirmed correct by the horticulturalist to whom I spoke at the time and place (Bed 101a). I do not know what other criterion you could have used to come to the conclusion "seems to be wrong species". Please replace the image I added yesterday.

Gderrin (talk) 04:15, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Mark. I don't agree with "far" but thanks! Also thanks for arranging to have the file renamed. By the way, I remember the horti's name - it was Chris Cole, whom I now know looks after the Big Ideas garden at Mount Annan. He was very helpful.

Cheers! Gderrin (talk) 08:29, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom: You may be interested

Hello, based on past interactions at Glyphosate and elsewhere, I thought you might be interested in the current ArbCom case. The Arbitration Committee is currently inviting comments from any parties that have past experience with the topics, or persons, involved. Jtrevor99 (talk) 22:39, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Just a comment

FYI 'legal threats' are where an editor has threatened to take legal action. Where an editor has said they have 'reported' to a relevent authority, they are not technically making a legal threat as they are not actually in a position to take legal action - and its already been done so its not a threat anyway. A recent extreme example (used because its an obvious issue) if I see a known UK editor obviously grooming an underage UK editor (to the extent of advising him how to contact without his parents knowing) and I report him to the relevant UK child protection authorities, even if I make this known on-wiki this would not be a legal threat as I am not in the position to do anything about it. I cant bring a case or instruct a legal team on their behalf as I have no standing (fyi the editor in my example was globally banned by a WMF office action at a later date). However saying all the above - this does not mean the editor is not making remarks intended to 'chill' discussion, which is often the standard 'legal threats' are held to rather than the actual ability to bring legal action. Regards Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:04, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Its a bit of a grey area really. Where someone is clearly trying to invoke legalese to chill the discussion, most people (self included) would warn them of the the no legal threats etc, in this case however its more of a throwaway 'I have reported this to the relevant authorities' at which point asking them to retract their threats (the usual response to a legal threat before blocking) would be functionally impossible if they have actually lodged a report. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 25

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DYK for Ficus platypoda

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:40, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

October 2015

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 31 hours for edit warring and violating the three-revert rule, as you did at Waltzing Matilda. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  Bbb23 (talk) 14:59, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Mark Marathon (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

At no stage did i break the three revert rule. i was very careful not to do so, even going so far as to leave the other editors final revert in place and asking them to self revert on the article talk page and on their talk page. I did seek to discuss the issue on the article talk page. In fact I started two separate sections to discuss these issues and laid out my concerns in full with all my reasoning. The other editor persistently reverted both my edits and that of a third editor. All of this is quite clear if you want to look at the article history, the talk page history and the other editors talk page. At no stage did i revert the same material more than three times in any 24 hour period. Mark Marathon (talk) 22:11, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Decline reason:

You've been given links to WP:3RR multiple times in the past; "whether involving the same or different material" is in a big red box that summarizes the policy. I verified your edits and my list matches Bbb23's analysis below. Kuru (talk) 00:01, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

---

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

• You reverted five times on October 3: 07:35, 09:12, 09:28, 09:46, and 09:52.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:39, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Arbcom Case

There is an ArbCom case involving you. [10]

SBHarris 06:43, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration case request declined

The Mark Marathon arbitration case request, which you were listed as a party to, has been declined by the Arbitration Committee. For the Arbitration Committee, Jim Carter 12:41, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Moved to ANI

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

SBHarris 00:49, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:45, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Mark Marathon. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding churnalism. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The thread is "Talk:Phys.org#Edits today". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! Naesco (talk)

Trifoliate orange and unti-CTV property

Hello, I noticed you rolled back my edit, and I respect that by an expert. Now I am going to add sentences back for non-medical use, deleting the human medication part but the counter citrus virus property. Would you care to check on that later? Thank you for your time. —Omotecho (talk) 02:03, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

@Omotecho: Thanks for understanding. Wikipedia has fairly high standrds for including material on medical effects of food or drugs. If you aren't already familiar, you may want to take the time to read WP:MEDRS. The information virus resistance is good, but it shouldn't be placed in the traditional medicine section, since it is 't about medical uses. Unless you want to create a new section, I suggest yoy place it in the cultivation section. Cheers. Mark Marathon (talk) 02:18, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Hello, appreciate your crisp response, and my mistake mixing those lines up with medical subject. Yes, let me place virus resistance under cultivation section; at least my reference is done by people at an agricultural research center, and it took them years before being published on a journal, but not in the field of medicine of course. Understood MEDRS, and good to know somebody is keeping eyes on the high standard of definition. Regards, —Omotecho (talk) 03:11, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Allsup

Thank you so much for your help. I didn't really intend to suck you down a rat hole that I've been reluctant to go down myself. Kendall-K1 (talk) 03:05, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Jungle

Please keep in mind that no editor owns a page. Thanks and all the best, Miniapolis 14:05, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

I agree with User:Miniapolis: User:Mark Marathon appears to make a habit of this and I find his behaviour distinctly unpleasant, having just posted yet another dictatorial message on my talk page. Kindly desist.Roy Bateman (talk) 06:34, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:James_Allsup#Descriptor_in_the_lead.3F

Hi, I'm wondering if you may have some feedback on the topic. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:36, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, Mark Marathon. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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Alice Springs

Don't answer on my user page, answer on the article Talk page so that others can chime in. And it's kind of silly to toss around "edit war" at the drop of a hat; this is a disagreement between editors, which happens all the time in wikipedia - in fact, that's kind of the point of wikipedia, for people to figure out edits through discussion. I'll await your comment on the article. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 17:06, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Edit war

Hi Mark, You didn't sign the edit warring warning message you put on my talk page. I won't be putting one on your talk page as was hoping that we would reach some sort of consensus on the the articles that were being reverted. Anyway I hope you find the additions I've made to each article more to your liking. Regards Hughesdarren (talk) 11:57, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Didn't realise there was a war, found this discussion on WP:Plants and restored the content. I will revert to the 'wrong version' if you still consider this under dispute. I wouldn't cygnis insignis 22:01, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

• STOP doing this sort of thing, please. It is trout-worthy and unhelpful. —cygnis insignis 22:16, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

• Please cease your disruptive behavior, Indigenous names are not foreign names and reverting your edits where you removed the only sourcing is not edit warring. Its also inappropriate to remove sourced content that is relevant, it is not WP:UNDUE to included information about natural variances within the range of a species, these variances and their causes are factual and significant. With respect to the templates you placed on User talk:Hughesdarren I have removed them as their usage is inappropriate under the circumstances and do not meet the requirements. Gnangarra 08:01, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Mark Marathon. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Not my source

Dear Mark Marathon, with this edit, I reverted back to an earlier version. Violation of SYNTH was already there in the first version in this lemma. Here you can see that Gderrin made the synthesis by using Wiktionary as source, while Wiktionary does not mention this species. With this edit Gderrin replaced the references to Wiktionary with a reference to Brown's The Composition of Scientific Words, which actually does not mention the species. Currently I can see 1,875 Wiki-lemmata that reference Brown (with epithet and Australia as added key-words), while in numerous cases, the specific epithets are not mentioned by Brown. So, would you consider this as a massive violation of SYNTH? Wimpus (talk) 08:10, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

If what you are saying is correct, then yes. If a source, such as a dictionary, isn't specifically referring to a species, then using it to derive a species name is clearly synthesis. As far as I can tell, the version of the article that I reverted to uses a book on Melaleucas as it's reference, which is a RS and not synthesis. If I have confused versions and this is the not the case, then by all means revert to the verison that does use that book as its source, and accept my apologies. Mark Marathon (talk)

Maybe Gderrin could explain, why using Brown's The Composition of Scientific Words to the extend he has used on Wikipedia would not be violation of SYNTH. Wimpus (talk) 08:29, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Before we go down that rabbit hole, could you please go to the M. lasiandra talk page and quote exactly what Brophy says that supports your preferred version? Regardless of whether other editors are engaging in synthesis, your own edits need to be reliably sourced and can't be based on personal knowledge. Thanks. Mark Marathon (talk) 08:33, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I did not used Brophy. I have reverted back to an earlier version. And while using Brown might be a violation of SYNTH, the addition of the etymological explanation of Brophy was not actually an improvement as andros does not mean male, but is the genitive case (of a male). That is not my personal opinion, as is evident from this source here, but also from Brown, that mentions andros as second word. He explains in his introduction that those are genitve cases. Wimpus (talk) 08:48, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Maybe this will help you to understand the difference between aner and andros. Wimpus (talk) 08:53, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I am not going to discuss this any further on my user page. Take it to the article talk page please. You did indeed make an edit which cited Brophy as the source for your derivation. Regardless of what you may think that andros means, Brophy is RS and you are not. If Brophy says it means "small and pink" then that is what goes into the article unless you can find another reliable source that says otherwise. And even then we just put both verisons into the article and let the reader decide. You can not remove reliably sources material regardless of how wrong you believe it to be. If you believe that Brophy is not RS, then discuss it on the article talk page and get consensus or take it to the RS noticeboard and get consensus there. It matters not one whit whether you believe this is a genitive case or a book case. If it is supported by a reliable source, it stays in the article. it your derivation is not supported by RS it can;t go into the article. That's the whole story.Mark Marathon (talk) 09:16, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

July 2019

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for persistently making disruptive edits.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 02:05, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

I don't think you should be reverting anyone and you will need to have some understanding of the situation because you didn't do anything right. If you do not see that he added a ref to that sentence then you are not competent enough to be editing. You will need to explain diff-per-diff what happened starting here.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 02:10, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Beauty School Dropout. I noticed that you recently removed content from Delphi Falls, New York without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Beauty School Dropout (talk) 03:07, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Disappointing

Hello Mark, Only just noticed you've been blocked again. You and I have had disagreements in the past but my contributions in this place would be even less significant without your help, and especially without the images of plants from out-of-the-way places that you have uploaded. Also appreciate your help in challenging Wimpus's edits. Gderrin (talk) 22:46, 28 December 2019 (UTC)