User talk:El Greco/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

No Fan Sites on the Wiki Project for James Bond

I run the Bond fan site Universal Exports and have recently seen my link additions deleted. I do not understand the reasoning on this decision, as Wikipedia is supposed to be a collection of ALL knowledge on any given subject. How does a link to another resource on the subject not qualify as an acceptable entry? I don't care about "upping my google rankings," nor I'm sure do most people who run these sites and just want folks to see what else is out there on the subject they are reading about. Also, how do you differentiate between where you allow fan sites and not? For example, on your new Quantum of Solace page, you have links to numerous fan sites, yet you erased mine. How is that any different from the link I added to the Goldfinger page. I mean, it's not like the sections I'm linking to are small with no information...they are among the most in-depth resources on the subjects on the entire Internet.

Sorry to rant, I just don't understand your reasoning. Also, sorry if this is not the place to ask this question, I couldnt find any other way to get in touch with you. -Greg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goyo1980 (talk • contribs) 15:17, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Check out WP:LINKS for information on Wikipedia's link policy. _{El Greco}^(talk) 16:19, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I went over to the Wikipedia linking section and could not find anything stating no fan sites allowed. The closest I found was item 12 under the links to be avoided section: "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority." My site does not fall under this section as the site is not about me. Additionally, I am a recognized authority, having been published in many books relating to James Bond and been interviewed many times for print and radio.

Furthermore, under the what SHOULD be linked section, my site falls right under #4: "Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews." Did you take a look at the pages I was linking to before pulling them off or did you just delete the link because it looked like something that you thought should not be there. Also relevant is #4 under the sites to be considered section: "Sites which fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources."

So, I am very curious exactly what portion of the WP Links page that you sent me to holds the rule that has resulted in my links being deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goyo1980 (talk • contribs) 16:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, see this: Wikipedia:EL#Advertising_and_conflicts_of_interest. _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:07, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, I checked that out. Then I shall cite "If the link is to a relevant and informative site that should otherwise be included, please consider mentioning it on the talk page and let neutral and independent Wikipedia editors decide whether to add it. This is in line with the conflict of interest guidelines. Note that since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links may not alter search engine rankings." http://www.universalexports.net has a plethora of related and valuable links that readers of your entries would be extremely interested in. If you won't allow me to post these links then would you at least consider looking around the site and adding some yourself? I have spent the better part of the last 12 years making the site the most in-depth resource on 007 online and feel that it would be a valuable addition to your Wikipedia pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goyo1980 (talk • contribs) 16:19, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's already listed at James Bond in the external links section. Does that suffice? _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Three revert rule warning on Miami Vice

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.21.128 (talk) 21:14, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Stop vandalizing the page with incorrect information and maybe I won't report you. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:24, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect information? Where's your validation it was a 1963 Cadillac? I happen to own both 1963 and a 1964 Cadillac convertibles. They are similar but different. Check your facts. No need to attack me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.21.128 (talk) 21:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Reported. _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Turkish names for Greek places

Hi. I was going to post a question about the removal of the Turkish name of a Greek city (namely Tripoli, Greece) on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Greece, but I see you've already done so. Did you receive any guidance on this? User:Tsourkpk has done this to other articles, so I wondered whether a convention had been established. --Sturm 11:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Check Talk:Chios _{El Greco}^(talk) 15:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Pergamon

I just requested temporary page protection on Pergamon so the page name can be discussed, thought you would want to know--Pewwer42  Talk  07:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks like it was declined. Maybe a semi protect might work or just keep an eye out for the IP user who is doing this. _{El Greco}^(talk) 19:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Link removed?

Perhaps you can explain how a link to a MacGyver site which was used by Paramount to launch the MacGyver DVD set, and is the biggest and most accurate information resource on the net for MacGyver, would be removed as spam?

Wikipedia's external link policy states:

"Wikipedia articles should include links to Web pages outside Wikipedia if they are relevant. Such pages could contain further research that is accurate and on-topic; information that could not be added to the article"

and states in the "what should be linked" section that "Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews." SHOULD be linked.

How then can you call a link which fits the criteria as should be added, spam?

Rockatteer (talk) 11:02, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

It's got nothing to do with Paramount. It's still a fansite. _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:34, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh well that answered my question didn't it. NOT! The fact is this "fan site" is the largest and most accurate resource for said topic on the net. Seems like somethign people looking for information, might find useful. Rockatteer (talk) 21:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Take it to the articles talk page if you feel otherwise. _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

How come the TV.com link gets to stay, that's nothing to do with the show at all? whats the logic behind that? Rockatteer (talk) 22:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

TV.com is not a fansite. It's a comprehensive website offering information about many television shows and such. _{El Greco}^(talk) 23:35, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Kastelorizo

Good Morning El Greco, some words about the foreign names of this (and others) greek islands. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and it should have at least some standards in it. Now, the standard - at least for Europe - is that voices about places which have foreign names important because of historic (domination by another power), geographic (vicinity to the border) or ethnographic (minorities) reasons, should have these names written near the name in the original language. When I expanded the voice about Kastelorizo, I used this standard. If this is the rule (see for example Trieste and Gorizia for what concerns Italy, or Wrocław for what concerns Germany), I don't see why there should be an exception for the Greek names (I remember that the last time that I was in Kastelorizo, last October, there were still several flags of the Union waving in the wind ;-) ). So, I propose to reestablish the version with the foreign names at the top, and - if necessary - to semiprotect the page (most of these changes come from anonymous users). What do you (and your fellow countrymen) think about it? Thanks, Alex2006 (talk) 06:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Well the way I edited it works according to WP:NCGN. Guideline #2, Bullet 3: Alternatively, all alternative names can be moved to and explained in a "Names" or "Etymology" section immediately following the lead, or a special paragraph of the lead; we recommend that this be done if there are at least three alternate names, or there is something notable about the names themselves. _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, then let's keep them so, but I am afraid that for someone this is still too much... Alex2006 (talk) 15:42, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Pergamon again

I tried to get Pergamon protected again because... well edit wars are not a good thing. They declined it this time because they said it was borderline vandalism and to revert and warn. Have you warned the user? I decided after my one attempted to fix the page was reverted to not get involved so if you don't know the warning templates, there on this page.--Pewwer42  Talk  16:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I keep leaving the ip user a warning template on their talkpage and on the pergamon page, but they keep changing IP adresses all the time.

I just thought to look up all those IP addresses and guess what? the guy(or girl?) really lives in Turkey check out the whois info [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9]. that took some work. so infer what you want--Pewwer42  Talk  17:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter where the IP user lives, its the fact that there are 2 seperate articles. One the ancient greek city and two, the modern day turkish city. _{El Greco}^(talk) 17:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not arguing with that, I was just saying the fellow lived in turkey (the whole just because you live there doesn't mean your an expert thing) I was just trying to come up with a reason for there insistence, thats all--Pewwer42  Talk  18:07, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I understand that, but you have to also remember the user won't discuss his reasons on the pergamon talk page at all. _{El Greco}^(talk) 18:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I know, I started the one sided discussion on the talk page (the first one I've done that people actually said something, why do you think I'm watching it) so I think I'll contact an admin who has been helpful in the past--Pewwer42  Talk  18:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Not sure If you noticed but I got the page semi protected for a week. User:Slakr is an awesome Admin--Pewwer42  Talk  23:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I noticed. _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:19, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

your user page

not sure why your user page is on my watchlist, but I hope you didn't mind my last revert--Pewwer42  Talk  18:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for looking out. _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:EL

Unlike MI6.co.uk and CommanderBond.net, I don't believe that Bond site is recognized as anything major. That MacGyer site looks nothing special either. Alientraveller (talk) 22:00, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Recent Article

Hi, I recently wrote an article and even though its not about Greece, could you tell me what you think? Thanks--Pewwer42  Talk  18:50, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks good so far. I went ahead and made some edits to, just minor ones. Based off those resources you used, it might be a good idea to go back make inline citations to the article. That way noone can question the validity of the article. _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, citation has been added(as to if I did it right well...) and oregon eh? lol--Pewwer42  Talk  00:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I meant multiple inline citations where ever new information is presented. Like for example, In 1881, the Dominican Fathers of Lille, France and the Province of Canada took over the administration of the church and in 1899 the first reference to Saint Peter and Saint Paul was made in The Dominicans published their Album Historique calling the parishes S. Pierre S. Paul de Lewiston, Maine. That would need an inline citation. _{El Greco}^(talk) 01:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Thessaloniki lead

I've reopened discussion of the lead, at talk:Thessaloniki#Reopen disambiguation discussion. We reached a compromise that seemed to satisfy all, and I am proposing we return to it. Jd2718 (talk) 00:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Athens Garbage Situation

Hey. I'd just like to say that you undid my edit about the garbage situation in Athens. I think its a notable incident. If we can just talk 'bout it, I would appreciate it. Ilikepie2221 (talk) 01:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Well that event doesn't seem that important in the grand scheme (Athens isn't the only city in the world to have landfill problems), but maybe a small mention of it. How about: "In January 2007, Athens had a waste management problem when its landfill near Ano Liosia, an Athenian suburb, reached capacity. Piles of garbage filled the streets, causing pedestrians difficulty to walk. The crisis eased somewhat in mid-January when the authorities began taking the garbage to a temporary landfill. (But that, too, is full.)" I don't know about that last sentence though, it makes it sound like it's still going, which I don't think is the case, since I haven't read or heard of any waste problems recently. _{El Greco}^(talk) 02:02, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I've never heard of any problem lately, too. Maybe we should do what you said and let someone else add if its full, too. I may have remember seeing an article in Toronto around June 2007 about the Athens garbage problem so it may be only a bit problematic now. Ilikepie2221 (talk) 20:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

So I'll add the part upto (the temporary landfill) being full. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Ilikepie2221 (talk) 21:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Koliri

Hi, can you help with the article Koliri, including finding out what kind of bird the kolirion is in English, if there is a translation? Thanks! - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 18:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Never heard of the bird, but the village does exist. See [10] _{El Greco}^(talk) 15:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Knight Rider (2008 film)

I would like to say that I'm sorry for putting the air dates on this article I was not thinking about it not being a series and understand you deleting the changes. Thanks. T.b.77b

Dear El Greco

		The Greek Barnstar of Virtue
		Allow me to say thank you for your help on Cyprus related articles. Regards, 3meandEr (talk) 16:06, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
		this WikiAward was given to El Greco by 3meandEr (talk) on 16:06, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Wow! Thank you 3meandEr. _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:34, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:Greek city

A tag has been placed on Template:Greek city requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Wow... I don't believe that still exists. I totally forgot about that. Just delete. _{El Greco}^(talk) 15:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Knight Rider article

Hi. I noticed someone (possibly you) had previously edited the Knight Rider article with information on the new movie. Whoever did it, went crazy with the references. It was like "starring blah as blah (ref), and blah as blah (ref), and blah as blah (ref), and blah as blah (ref)" with all the (ref)s pointing to the exact same article. This seemed silly to me, so I just changed it to add the reference one time at the end of all the named credits. I'm not sure why one would need the same reference over and over when the one covers all the topics.

The, I noticed you changed it back to the way it was before with the overkill of repetitive references.

Can you point me to the Wiki article(s) that indicate that every sentence covered by the same reference has to be referred to with every statement? It seems neater and cleaner to me if it was just listed once in the end rather than the repetitive way it is now. I could see how it would be appropriate if each statement was covered by different references, but when they're all covered by the same one, it just seems logical to me that one time in the end would be sufficient.

I'm not challenging you -- I'm just looking to educate myself for future article edits. Thanks!

--P shadoh (talk) 20:04, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Well it's done so that no one can challenge what's written in the article. What's stated is backed up by some source. The more sources the better (even if it's one source used multiple times). Just putting one reference at the end of a paragraph to cite the whole paragraph isn't doing that much overall good. I mean, how do I know that source at the end of the paragraph is citing just that sentence or the whole paragraph? _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Hrm. I know what you're saying, but still don't totally agree. However, you have loads more Wiki experience than I do, so I'll have to defer to you. :) Take care... --P shadoh (talk) 20:52, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

---

Well its either KITT or KARR, or pieces of both. Even stating that the pieces are only of KITT could be considered original research. - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 18:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but wasn't KARR designed and built by someone else. So Graiman, having KARR would not make sense? I'm going to rewatch the movie again to be more sure, but I think there was a reference in the movie to both KITT's. _{El Greco}^(talk) 18:51, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Top Gear (series 1)

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Top Gear (series 1), and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://www.cheaptelevision.co.uk/episode%20_guides/Top_Gear.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 15:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

RMS Titanic

Good afternoon El Greco,

Can you explain to me why you have removed the edit on the Titanic artice where i removed the ships power conversions listed as "MW" - which is not important to the artice as they were not used as units of measured power in the early twentieth century when the ship would have been in service and also why the repartition of the wreck site latitude and longitude which i removed was replaced as they are more relevently listed in the paragraph about the discovery of the wreck?

Please note this is not a complaint and just merely a question - i would welcome a reply to this subject!

Regards

msa1701 (talk) 13:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Because those respective infobox fields are for some quick immediate information (as is the infobox itself), not look down at section..... Now as for the MW those are included to I guess give some understanding of what their respective horsepowers amount to, as a sort of comprehension/comparison. _{El Greco}^(talk) 01:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

French people

Hello El Greco/Archive 2. You have shown interest in the French people article at some point, you are now invited to participate in a vote for the French personalities to be included in the French people infobox. Regards - Wikigi | talk to me | 11:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Help

Hello! I added in the article of Amarynthos the infobox of Greek demos but although I have included the municipality population, it isn't shown on the page. Has it been removed from the infobox? - Sthenel (talk) 12:47, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

It's all fixed now, some of the code in the infobox was wrong, and I never noticed it until now. Thanks! _{El Greco}^(talk) 16:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Knight Rider 2008

I noticed that you undid my small sentence changes in the KR2008 production portion article with the sentences pertaining to Arnett's replacement. The way you had it originally, it sounds like GM influenced NBC or at least someone higher up to replace Arnett. "Arnett was replaced at the request of..." This clearly implies that the request went to someone in a position to replace Arnett. However, Arnett asked to be replaced after GM informed him of the potential conflict, so I believe the sentence should properly convey that meaning. Out of courtesy I thought I would write to you directly about the issue so that you may make the change yourself. Finally, as a matter of flow, Val Kilmer's mention in the final sentence should reflect him being subsequently brought on to replace Arnett - but this is more of a stylistic suggestion as opposed to the previous comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.223.20.120 (talk) 10:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Does that flow/sound better now? _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Tracer/Traceur

RE: Knight Rider (2008 film): would we be anal-retentive enough to email NBC and ask for clarification, as their website repeatedly uses "Tracer"? - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 15:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

No, go for it. The only thing I can think of on their part is a spelling mistake that's been repeated over and over again. (Or they had originally decided Traceur and then just before the movie aired they went with Tracer, but never updated the movie.) Or they decided after the movie aired, to change his name from Traceur to Tracer. But it will be interesting to keep an eye out for the Saturday (Feb 23) reshowing of the movie if, anything is changed. _{El Greco}^(talk) 16:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Their reply

Thanks for your email. NBC values your comments, but unfortunately, due to the volume of emails we receive, we cannot respond to each one. Please check our FAQ section to see if your question is answered there:

/faq/

Since we cannot accept unsolicited scripts, show ideas, or other creative material, any such submission by email will be deleted without being read.

We would also like to hear more of your opinions about television and the programs you watch. If you would like to share your feedback with us by becoming part of our viewer panel, please visit the following link:

http://www2.rresults.com/1809998/index.cfm?s=50

Once you join, you'll occasionally be invited to take Internet surveys, which are fun to do and usually take about 5 minutes to complete. The information you give will have an impact on the television programs you enjoy.

Thanks for logging on to NBC's websites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cobaltbluetony (talk • contribs) 17:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Well that's not helpful at all. What was the email address you used to contact NBC? Maybe I'll give it a try and see if anything different comes up. _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

It was a form on their "Contact us" page. Useless. - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 20:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I got the same response too. Should we put a notice stating that the the show spells his name one way and NBC another way, or just leave it as is? _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:53, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Languages

Please keep the number of people in Greece with passports belonging to the Republic of MAcedonia, and the number of people speaking Macedonian Slavic in Greece different, as both are two completely different things. Greece's last census had 40,000 Slavophones. Polibiush (talk) 02:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Bond film template

Just FYI I've put the template under semi-protection to stop the IP from continually making the change. PS ... Oh, I just noticed that this guy has been doing this elsewhere, too. Sigh. Well, he's been blocked for a bit, so let's see what happens. 23skidoo (talk) 21:46, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. It was becoming a nuisance. _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:08, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Username pronunciation

Is your user name pronounced either El Greko or El Gresho?. Mythdon (talk) 06:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Like the painter. _{El Greco}^(talk) 18:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Spelling

My bad with the spelling change. I didn't realize that there was a difference between american and british english, and i had my drivers license on the table, so i figured you must have been wrong. Grk1011 (talk) 01:41, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

No harm done. _{El Greco}^(talk) 01:43, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Can you help me

please?I want to put some photos in wiki,particularly in the article about Pontic Greeks (photos of famous people in the infobox) but i don't know how i can do it. Eagle of Pontus

Do you know the copyright info (what year where they taken, who took them, or from where did you get them, etic.)? If so then it's easy. _{El Greco}^(talk) 01:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Nope.I know who i want to put i think finding photos will be easy.But i don't know how to upload them here.Here i have 3 photos for the Iraklis Thessaloniki F.C. article http://www.iraklis-fc.gr/team/vasia.jpg (chatzipanagis the legend) http://media2.feed.gr/filesystem/images/20071011/engine/assets_LARGE_t_1041_440163_type11487.jpg President remos (pink t-shirt) http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6487/image1024hilb8.jpg Iraklis - PAO 2005-06 but i don't know how to put them in the article.Can you maybe help me in that? Eagle of Pontus

Giacinta "Jinx" Johnson

Another editor has added the {{prod}} template to the article Giacinta "Jinx" Johnson, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia or discuss the relevant issues at its talk page. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. BJBot (talk) 16:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Leave the Bond Girls as individual pages?

[11] Ultra! 12:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Happy First Day of Spring!

Happy First Day of Spring!

A Beautiful Cherry Tree in Spring Bloom

Theres nothing like seeing a field full of spring flowers.

Just wishing you a wonderful First Day of Spring {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}! ~~~~

If you live in the Southern Hemisphere and are entering the season of Autumn not Spring then I wish you a happy First Day of Autumn {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}!
To spread this message to others, add {{subst:First Day Of Spring}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Former toponymes of Greece places

Please contribute to the talk page of Former toponymes of Greece places. Especially the part of http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Former_toponyms_of_Greek_places#revert_to_a_previous_more_neutral_description . There is some dispute of how the article should be written! Check the version of user macrakis and mine. Your opinion is highly appreciated. Seleukosa (talk) 16:09, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello El greco. Check again the above talk page. All the comments and arguments are actually signed. Read the article and see if you like how it is written. I belive that it is correct, neutral and historicla acurate. Seleukosa (talk) 10:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Ikarian page

As I stated before, if you took the time to read you would not unedit the changes I made. 1.) The reference to the criminal organization goes beyond the scope of informing people about the island . Also it was added without prior discussion. 2.) The www.ikaria.gr link is a private owned site and has no officiality about it. And so I changed it to the official www.icaria.gr 3.)If you consider spam links informative links regarding the transportaion (airport), 2 internationaly famous festivals that inform readers of life there today,and the addition of 3 private owned links that are informative.... then you actions can be considered only as malicious —Preceding unsigned comment added by N3krom4nc3r (talk • contribs) 01:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

after this last message I undid your undo and wrote extensively in the discussion page as to why I made the changes or more correctly undoing their undettered changes. To my surprise the ikaria page was undone by sceptre this time with a warning. It appears I can not appeal with simple, logical and just claims. It is not enough I put in time to undo this misguided information that others without any trouble have added and changed, I also get warned by being unable to edit again. I do know who they are and their intentions for doing so. It is unknown to me why the site and you the mods side with them. Do not superficialy view the changes I have made.Take time to investigate them.

Please read WP:EL and WP:SPAM and WP:NOT#REPOSITORY. _{El Greco}^(talk) 19:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

last attempt

again point 2 of above. It is a gross act of misinformation to keep the www.ikaria.gr as the official site as it proclaims to be. A simple click on the www.icaria.gr which is operated by the perfecture will clear this up.If you go through the history you will see that the true official one was erased.Last year legal action has been sought against this ikaria.gr site because as you might know site names of places should rightfully be owned and operated by local government/authorities. Even more if you would search this site, no where does it's officiality come from eg municiplaities etc (that I have added and thankfuly were not erased- although they can go as links to the respectful stubs). To reinstate the true one (icaria.gr)as official and erase the tag from the fake (ikaria.gr)from the other does not violate the spam,el,repos rules.

point 1 of above . It is common knowledge that the brothers were arrested in Athens and not on the island.By defintion a "native" is someone that is born , lives and represents the average person from that area. This guys are not natives.Most important do you think that the piece I deleted and was added without discussion, adds to the knowledge of the island? Closing, since it is the policy of wiki to be neutral, allowing the above to go unfixed creates a false, unjust picture of the people. This as you understand is damaging and should not be permitted.

Please take into consideration my case.N3krom4nc3r (talk) 23:51, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Looking at www.icaria.gr, it looks more like a tourist guide/travel website than www.ikaria.gr. First its copyrighted by N. Michael, not the actual city government that runs the island (like Thessaloniki or Athens do), and whether you click on the Greek entrance link or the English link you get the same, tourist guide information (sightseeing, monuments, beaches, hotels, etc.) no real "government" website for it's citizens. www.ikaria.gr on the other hand provides some information besides that. Maybe it might be better to just remove www.ikaria.gr and list no official website since neither make a clear distinction.

Reading this article states that, "Avramidis, a married father of two, wanted to testify for the defense at the November 17 suspects’ trial but was dissuaded by defense lawyers. Recently, he visited the island of Icaria, where suspect Christodoulos Xeros lived, to speak in support of the defendants in the trial." According to that Xeros lived on the island which is what it states in the article. Now I've gone ahead and moved that part to the newly formed modern era section. _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

thank you for the time with this article - a few more things to help you out. I tried to send the following as email so not to take up space, but I couldn't.

Yes the icaria.gr site that is controlled by the perfecture is crappy. Belive me, that even the one of the aghios kirikos took me years of nagging to get them started.It was quite hard for them to find a domain name since the popular had been taken up by private citizens, not only greek but from abroad. Yes it is true that the ikaria.gr holds more info.But unless it is controlled by an authority, it is wrong to be presented as the "official".

Proof that the icaria.gr site is official http://www.northaegean.gr/isite/page/1511,2,0.asp or a simple phone call would clear it up, but it would be going to far

I personaly prefer the www.island-ikaria.com because it is not aggresive and it was the first site that dealt with the island. You have noticed though there has been a small "war" going on between various parties that try to use the article to further there own interests.Basicaly there a few north islanders that are hogging up the article to promote themselves and their personal tourism enterprises. I have critisized this in the discussion section.

About the links concerning the criminals

-Vasilis - born in kozani '72 raised in Thessaloniki

http://www.in.gr/news/reviews/article.asp?lngReviewID=441065&lngChapterID=441054&lngItemID=440343

-Savvas - born in Florina '62 moved to athens '81

http://www.in.gr/news/reviews/article.asp?lngReviewID=441065&lngChapterID=441054&lngItemID=440343

-Xristodoulos born in ikaria '58 moved to athens '83 http://www.in.gr/news/reviews/article.asp?lngReviewID=441065&lngChapterID=441054&lngItemID=440266

the family because of the fathers occupation (priest) did not hold permanent residence somewhere for long. Basicaly they were raised in North Greece but held ties with the island. http://tovima.dolnet.gr/print_article.php?e=B&f=13611&m=A12&aa=1

It is true that towards the end Christodoulos took up permanent residence in ikaria,but the brothers lives basicaly revolved around athens because of their criminal activities. This is why I state they can not be refered to as natives. It is painful and wrong for the rest of us to be stigmatized because of them.

One of their victims George Tsantes was of ikarian descent. This not refered to anywhere nor is he listed in the notable Ikarians.

http://greekodyssey.typepad.com/my_greek_odyssey/2006/06/living_with_17_.html

From what I heard , Tsantes , a promising officer in the U.S navy ,worked in Greece because he loved Greece and his island.No one has yet to honor his memory by noting him as a notable Ikarian. Nor has anyone mentioned the musicians,scientists, doctors and politicians in Greece and abroad that have honored greece and the island with their accomplishments. And yet the impression someone will get when he reads the article, is that of the criminals. Ok I know wiki is a place to state facts,but is it wrong to stress the goods ones and minimize the bad ones? Due to wikis immense importance and popularity, the info provided can affect for good or bad: tourism, economies and people. It is in my interest to see this article become good enough so it would create interest and love to the reader for the island and greece. ( I think I talk too much lol) Thanks for your time , N3krom4nc3r (talk) 22:46, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Replying here is fine, I perfer it instead of getting email. Well, I went ahead and replaced www.ikaria.gr with www.icaria.gr. Thanks for pointing that out. I also went ahead and fixed the N17 section to just include Christodoulos Xiros being born on the island and Alexandros Giotopoulos about how he was captured on Lipsi. I hope that helps, any questions or comments just post them here. Thanks again. _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:29, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

www.leningrad.su

There is open discussion about external link to this site.

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Saint_Petersburg

Please don't delete the link until the discussion will be closed.--Sergei Frolov (talk) 19:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Replied, over at Talk:Saint Petersburg. _{El Greco}^(talk) 01:21, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Greek cypriots in Canada

Ελ Γκρεκο, δεν θελω να μας βλεπουν οι βαρβαροι να τσακωνομαστε ουτε να στην πω. Το θεμα με τον αριθμο ειναι απλο και δεν χρειαζεται να υπερασπιζεσαι μια μαλακια που εγραψε ενας Τουρκοκυπριος. Στο θεμα μας:

Respondents who reported multiple ethnic origins are counted more than once in this table, as they are included in the multiple responses for each origin they reported. For example, a respondent who reported 'English and Scottish' would be included in the multiple responses for English and for Scottish.

Οι Κυπριοι που ειναι 3,395 καποιοι θα απαντησαν Ελληνες και Κυπριοι (Α), καποιοι Τουρκοι και Κυπριοι (Β) και καποιοι Κυπριοι σκετο (Γ). Α+Β=2,570 και Γ=830. Τωρα απο το παραπανω βλεπεις οτι τα Α,Β συμπεριλαμβανονται στο total για τους Ελληνες και στο αντιστοιχο για τους Τουρκους. Για αυτο το λογο το total για τους Ελληνες 231,110 πχ ειναι μεγαλυτερο απο οσους απαντησαν μονο Ελληνες 134,320. Δηλ οσοι απο τους 2,570 δηλωσαν και Ελληνες (Ελληνοκυπριοι ή Ελληνοτουρκοκυπριοι οπως λες) συμπεριλαμβανονται ηδη στο συνολο μαζι με οσους δηλωσαν Ελληνογερμανοι, Ελληνοαμερικανοι κτλ. Ελπιζω τωρα να ειναι πιο κατανοητο γιατι το επιπλεον νουμερο ειναι 830. Εξακολουθω να νομιζω οτι δεν προσφερει τιποτα το να συμπεριληφθει αλλα δεν θα επιμείων αφου το θες. Πρεπει ομως να ειναι σωστο. Πες μου τη γνωμη σου.Xenovatis (talk) 21:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Look this is how I see it. The number (3,395) encompasses duplicate respondents. Some people have one ethnicity, some have more than one ethnicity. A census will just include people, but not their ethnicity. However, the ethnicity numbers are always going to overlap, because there are more than one persons who could fit into more than one ethnicity. Yes, 830 of those respondents are of one ethnicity, but what about the 2565? They can be either Greek, Turkish, both or some other ethnic group. Therefore 830 of the 3,395 respondents replied with one ethnicity (could be Greek, could be Turkish, could be what ever). The remainder responded that they are Greek/Turkish, Greek/British, Turkish/British, etc. Therefore, you cannot ascertain who are the Greeks, and who are the non-Greeks from what the census table gives. So, the 3,395 should be included with the disclaimer that it is unclear what ethnicity they are.

Now as you say, that only the 830 should be included in the footnote, I ask you this. What about the Greek census number then? There are 231,110 Greeks in Canada, some of them more than one ethnicity are we going to adjust that number too?

Take a look at this chart. [12] Now the yellow shows the whole population of lets say Canada, the purple Cypriots, and the blue everyone else. Now the whole population is everything in that box. The pure Cypriots, the ones with one ethnicity are in the P(A) (830) region and the one ethnicity everyone else is in the P(B). So the overlap area is P(A and B), that's the 2,565. So, to make a long story short, there may be 830 Cypriots of one ethnicity, but there are also 2,565 Cypriots of more than one ethnicity. So an overlap occurs which is bound to occur. _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

This is our disagreement:Therefore 830 of the 3,395 respondents replied with one ethnicity (could be Greek, could be Turkish, could be what ever). The 830 only responded Cypriot in the poll, hence they are only counted in the total for Cyprus. That is what the collumn indicates, those who only replied the field on the left. One ethnicity but not any one, Cypriot. Among the rest those who also reported Greek ethnicity are allready included in the total (larger) number for the Greeks 231,110 which of course should not be changed. Those who didn't answer Greek are also included in the totals for the ethnicities they answered. So if we include the 2,565 in the number of additional we will be doublecounting since those of them who are Greek are allready included in the total for Greeks.Xenovatis (talk) 23:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

But who says they are Greek? That's the problem. You're assuming they are Greek, I'm not assuming that, they could be. For all we know, they could be British. We don't know. We could have 830 Cypriots (who don't declare whether or not they are Greek or Turkish), and we could have 2,565 British Cypriots who declare they are both Cypriot and British. Therefore if we added the 3,395 to the infobox, there really is no doublecounting. You see, there is no clear indication what ethnicity they are. That is the problem I have, by just adding the 830, you are leaving out 2,565 possible persons that could be addtionally added to the infobox. They could be Greek, Turkish, and British in one. How about this, what if out of those 830, 400 of them are Turkish? Then the 830 is wrong to begin with. _{El Greco}^(talk) 01:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Where am I assuming they are Greek and who am I assuming is? Answer that first. Then what I said is that of those 2.565 those that have declared Greek (in any combination) are allready included in the larger total for Greek. They only ones who could possibly be Greek and are not included are those that declared only Cypriot. In the mean time the table is being molested by a pov pushing Slavomacedonian nationalist so I can't waste any more time with this. Xenovatis (talk) 09:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

About Komotini

Komotini has a muslim minority, so it is normal that there should be a turkish native name. Do you agree? If not, I should move on and get rid off every native name that is in Greek in the towns of Saranda and Himara. Which is our consensus? 217.24.247.236 (talk) 19:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

...and what consensus is that? Native name refers to the name of that city spoken in the language of that country. Not what minorities exist in that city. Get you facts checked. _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Ancient Macedonian Language

Can you please take some notice here, if its possible: [13] and here at the end of the page.[14]. Thank you.

Also read the history page of the User: Future Perfect at Sunrise, look at the methods employed[15]

EOKA

Hi, I am proposing to split the article on EOKA into two separate articles. I noticed you have contributed to the article so if you are still interested, please have a look at the talk page and add any of your thoughts. Georgeg (talk) 16:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Thessaloniki

Kalispera. Antlisa tis piges mou gia tis adelfopoiimenes poleis tis Thessalonikis apo to episimo site tou Dimou Thessalonikis, parathetontas kai to sxetiko link, opou malista mesa yparxoun san sinnimena kai ta prwtokolla ypografis metaksy twn polewn. Den antilamvanomai loipon to logo gia ton opoio den eginan dektes oi allages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.72.252.68 (talk) 15:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Next time, state your source in the edit otherwise users will revert it as I did. It's all updated now. Kalo Pasxa. _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:54, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.72.252.68 (talk) 12:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

FPC I'd Like Help With

I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind going to Portal:James Bond. I'd really appreciate any criticisms or support that you could provide for this Featured portal candidate. Thanks. Ultra! 19:15, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks very good. I supported it on the nomination page, and also added a shortcut template to it, if that's okay. _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Improvements on the article regarding Catania

I had made several momentous improvements on the sections Culture and Transportations of the Catania page and corrected some factual errors on the Catania infobox. For example, Scapagnini is no more mayor of the city. I live in Catania, and all the information I provided has solid ground and shares a neutral point of view. These improvements have been cancelled and the page returned to the previous version. Why has this been carried out? If somebody asked for sources couldn't he just ask for them? I would be gladly provide any source needed.Drunkpiper (talk) 14:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

You have to add your sources into the article. People are not going to read and then request. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:04, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

On the other hand, there's ways and means of getting your message across - might I gently suggest a read of WP:DONTBITE? FlagSteward (talk) 17:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Elgin Marbles

I have been working on the Elgin Marbles article for several days now and I am proposing that it be renamed. Unfortunately I have not managed to attract any responses yet, so if you would be interested to comment on my proposal I would appreciate some feedback--Giorgos Tzimas (talk) 13:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Regd the Cyprus Page

Hi..I am a regular user of the wiki, but not very aware of the posting guidelines. So, I am not even sure whether my question should be posted here. I had added a link to my blog http://www.triptocyprus.com/blog under the General Info section on the Cyprus page. I have been in Cyprus for around 7 years now and have traveled extensively within Cyprus. I have (and am continuously)documented details of all my travels with photographs on my blog, which could (and has, according to feedback) serve useful to visitors and cypriots alike. Any reason why that was removed ? thanks in advance for the reply Kotram (talk) 15:17, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

The link was removed because it does not adhere to Wiki policy. See WP:ELNO. _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Titanic/Olympic stern photo

Hi, yes that is a picture of the Olympic's stern which like many Olympic pictures are used as a stand-in for Titanic. Photos exist of Titanic's stern in drydock but none were taken of Titanic after she was painted. The ship in the photo is in White Star colors and is noted as Olympic in books and on websites such as LostLiners.com Just thought I'd make the photo accurate. Thanks Koplimek (talk) 21:58, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I find no image of that on Lostliners.com on either the Titanic or Olympic page. So I'm willing to believe the Library of Congress until something else is shown. _{El Greco}^(talk) 14:32, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

El Greco,since your the only one in conflict with my captioning of the photo, here's the page on LostLiners.com ...scroll down to the bottom, it's the picture at the bottom. Note the same man standing at the center prop and the rudder positioned about 45 degrees to the right. Compare both pictures. The Library of Congress is inaccurate if they say this is Titanic. It's Olympic:

Olympic at LostLiners —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koplimek (talk • contribs) 04:58, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

P.S. you can click the photos at LostLiners to enlarge.Koplimek (talk) 05:03, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I've seen the photo and the one that you link to on that page is not the same one on the RMS Titanic page. The man in the photos doesn't look the same. In the Titanic photo he is standing next to the base of the propeller, while in the Olympic picture he is standing in front of the propeller. _{El Greco}^(talk) 23:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Sarkozy 'April Fool's Joke'?

Hi 'El Greco'. I agree with you utmost. Whatever a british newspaper thinks of the French President has no effect whatsoever on his image. Well done you for deleting my addition to the Nicolas Sarkozy article. I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, i think i'm gonna go and delete all that apparently 'pointless' information out there! Once again, "El Greco"- I'm so glad you've deleted my addition- my life has been changed for the better! Robincross224 (talk)

Request for help

Future Perfect of Sunrise is not discussing, and is performing disruptive editing[16], without even bothering to address the points raised in the talk page[17].

Can you please take some notice.

Macedonia naming dispute

El Greco, I understand this topic is a controversial issue, but why do you insist on reverting back to a version with so many instances of bad English? Can't you see the recent changes have been improvements in readability without changing the content? You've even reverted corrections of capitals - surely you don't have a problem with corrections such as those? You seem to be trying to take ownership of the article, which is fine as long as you don't keep reverting back to an inferior version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.7.132.71 (talk) 04:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Frank

I agree it has been innagurated into the article, but having it in the lead provides a nice overview of his life and career. All the info in the lead is already in the article, the Mafia stuff in the relationships sction, etc. It also nudges the introduction toward good article criteria. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 07:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Pisanie

Hi. I wonder if you could take a look at this discussion, and the pictures, and let us know the Greek term for the object in question. Thank you. Biruitorul ^Talk 14:56, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The best I can come up with is plaque or πινακίδα in Greek. I hope that helps. _{El Greco}^(talk) 20:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, thank you - much appreciated. Biruitorul ^Talk 22:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Mv daytona.jpg)

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Talk:Commandaria

While it's admirable of you to try to teach som civility to 162.83.213.122, I'm not sure if it's of any worth to keep his (?) phrases on the talk page. In worst case, keeping such material could lower the standard of the talk page. Perhaps it would be better to move both the phrase and your piece of advice to the IP number's talk page? (I removed a similar outburst from this page earlier yesterday.) Tomas e (talk) 07:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure, go ahead. Just remove it in it's entirety, I have no problem with that. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Greek Surnames

Hi El Greco.- I have restructured the paragraph on Greek Surnames appearing in "Greeks". I think it better explained and in a much more clear form. I encourage you, if you have more sources, to include them but please, I humbly think it is a good format, so I do not see the scope of undoing it. You will find that I looked forward not to stick to personal or particular cases too much, but to be as comprhensive as I could. I have much more sources and examples that I will be adding little by little so as tho improve it.Periptero (talk) 01:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

All you did was copy this article: Family_name#Greece. The Greeks page is just a summary, it's doesn't needed everything in it. So I changed it back, but I've linked to that article and Names of the Greeks. _{El Greco}^(talk) 23:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I received your message regarding Greeks. Are you sure that you understand what you are addressing to me ?

1.- I re-scheduled the whole article in a more comprehensive and understandable pattern. You preffered to undo me once again and leave a less developped article which is also unsourced (it just sources some internet links)

2.- I provided with a reliable and concrete source about Arvanitic familynames in Greeks. It has author, book title, publisher, date of publishing, page etc. and you tell me I am not citing reliable sources ?

Sorry,is it something personal ?If it is so, in behalf of knowledge I send you all my data and you write it and post it sou the name "El Greco" apperars, I really do not mind.

Do you know that by leaving the old article you are actually leaving an ancient version of mine posted in Surnames#Greece, which was re-edited by someone else by adding the Maniot surnames "akis" cite?

One again, I will tery to re-structure this article (by adding the cites that the "moronic" one has so that you do not get hurt). Let´s see if this time it suits you.

We Greeks, as the givers of culture to the world, cannot accept mediocre articles like the you are stubbornly defending.

Please, understand that it is nothing against you, I am trying to be open minded, please do the same.

By the way ... have you read everything I wrote in the discussion pge of "Greeks"? If not, be kind and do so and feel free to exchange every opinion you want.Periptero (talk) 23:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Where are your sources? I don't see them in the article. ADD THEM!!!! You have a WP:BURDEN of proof to provide inline citations to where you got your information from. I don't give a damn if you have the book at home and are looking at it. You have to add where you got your information from into the article. So far I have seen that you have done that, well only three four sources for twice the size of the article that it was. I will be expecting more, otherwise it is just as unsourced as the Family name#Greece article in which you blatantly copied it from. You need to provide sources from where you got your information from otherwise it is unsourced and under Wikipedia policy I or anyone else can remove it like before. _{El Greco}^(talk) 23:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

I was just reading over your talk page since you're involved in editing Aristotle Onassis and noticed the link to WP:BURDEN. Never came across that shortcut - very handy to have. --NeilN ^{talk ♦ contribs} 22:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

It is one of the handy ones. You're welcome._{El Greco}^(talk) 23:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Careful you don't break WP:3RR eh? --NeilN ^{talk ♦ contribs} 00:07, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm backed off. But I just wish the user would add the cites to the rest of that paragraph. If the user has got the book right in front of him/her why is he/she so releuctant? Those ref's the user posted anyway only link to the Google books page about the book, it provides no preview of the book, so what we are basically taking is the user's word. I say this because, you know someone at a future date will come in and stick one of those {{fact}} templates and it could be this all over again. _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree. I would report him for WP:3RR but I'm reluctant to do so as an admin might point out it takes two to edit war. But right now I think it's best to take a break and come back to the article in a couple days to see if improvements can be made. --NeilN ^{talk ♦ contribs} 00:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Miami Vice DVD releases

I have nominated Miami Vice DVD releases, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Miami Vice DVD releases. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Firearms in Miami Vice

I have nominated Firearms in Miami Vice, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Firearms in Miami Vice. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Serbian-Greek relations article listed on AfD

Some user has listed Serbian-Greek relations to AfD under the claim that it doesn't tell the whole story. Please take a look at there Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Serbian-Greek_friendship.--Avala (talk) 16:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Florence

Thanks for moving my comment. I wasn't aware of that rule. (I'll go over them all again.) Sorry. Kostaki mou (talk) 02:26, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:MiamiVice CompleteSeries.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:MiamiVice CompleteSeries.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Fixed. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Reverts

If you're going to revert someone's work, it is common practice (not to mention common courtsey) to make a note of such action on the Talk page. I refer to this: (cur) (last) 22:37, June 29, 2008 El Greco (Talk | contribs) (77,345 bytes) (Undid revision 222434026 by 71.112.186.205 (talk)) (undo) DOR (HK) (talk) 02:09, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

So for everytime I revert a user, I post it on the article talk page? User:71.112.186.205 removed an image from the Hong Kong page for what appears to be no reason at all, and the undid my edit and was reverted again by User:Benjwong. Next time I'll post something in the edit summary to make the user aware if not also give him a user warning on hi stalk page. _{El Greco}^(talk) 14:03, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think you need to post anything on the talk page. The edit summary at the bottom of the screen should be sufficient in most cases. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

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2007 Greek forest fires

Can you update the section Reforestation? It documents some governments adapted reforestation measures, but the information is a bit outdated. What is the recent situation of the reforestation effort process and its result, it need to be included. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 18:43, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. _{El Greco}^(talk) 18:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi!

I PUT A REASON FOR THE REMOVAL OF 150,000-250,000 FOR PERSIAN ARMY SIZE IN THERMOPLYAE, because I ALREADY had a reason. Always before editing read the history to look for any justifications a user had put in. And the reason is, every day, every major classical historian is coming up with new numbers, so we should not average modern consensus, it is basically unending! Because the viewer can check the persian army size below, so we should only include the most reliable and realistic numbers provided by the ancient historians themselves, like Ctesias for example. Let me ask you this, is Ctesias( the one that had direct access to the Persian archives reliable? Or, a 20th century historian, which by the way the modern consensus should have a more REALISTIC number right? NO, the modern concensus's numbers are far LARGER than the numbers provided by the historian. And I thought the ancient Greek historians exxagerated Persian numbers, silly me! Anyways, I hope you can understand my point, and by doing this I am not erasing every modern consensus, the viewer can easily scroll down and look for it themselves, I just want to get rid of it, because a new book on THERMOPLYAE is coming out, and guess what, the historian has his own numbers for the battle, so, it is AN EVERCHANGING AVERAGE FOR THE 'MODERN CONSENSUS!' I don't understand why this battle is so sacred that one minor insignifigant edit is such a big deal, some battle article don't have any sources and state numbers from thin air, but for some reason,(because of 300) this article gets the most attention, so now you know the reason for my edit, thanks for reading, goodbye!--Ariobarza (talk) 00:02, 9 July 2008 (UTC)ariobarza talk

So you think it's justified then to just include Ctesias for the size of the Persian Army, throw out modern consensus like you just did, but include Herodotus for the casualties of the Persian Army? Where's the conformity? By far you seem so keen that you skipped over the fact that Ctesias in the infobox is sourced as saying 80,000 troops fought in the battle, yet in the article is says 800,000. What happened to that? Your actions seem more keen on removing modern consensus numbers than anything else. Even Modern Consensus ESTIMATES THE PERSIAN FORCES TO BE BETWEEN 210,000 (Maurice) AND 650,000 (Hammond). Yeah.............that's much higher than Ctesias (800K) or Herodotus (2.6 Million). I think you're better off taking you discussion about the modern consensus numbers to the ARTICLE'S talk page. _{El Greco}

(talk) 01:20, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

This is why

THIS IS AN EXCERPT FROM CTESIAS'S PERSICA: His general Artapanus, with 10,000 men, fought an engagement with Leonidas, the Spartan general, at Thermopylae; the Persian host was cut to pieces, while only two or three of the Spartans were slain. The king then ordered an attack with 20,000, but these were defeated, and although flogged to the battle, were routed again. The next day he ordered an attack with 50,000, but without success, and accordingly ceased operations. (Persica 27,Edited by Roger Pearse)

NOW THIS IS MY RESPONSE: For those who have wondered if anyone else (ANY OTHER ANCIENT HISTORIAN IS WHAT I MEAN) talked about this battle, it was Ctesias and he exactly said what the number of Persians there were, which was 80,000, which 20,000 may have died, and the Greeks if you read all of the historians account there were ACTUALLY 16,000 Greeks, (BUT DON'T WORRY I WONT CHANGE THE GREEK NUMBERS) with 300+400+700+900+1,000=3,300 Greek casualties, or possibly 4,000, and concerning the reliability of Ctesias he says there was 800,000+ Persians or people of Persian empire army that INVADED Greece falling between todays modern estimates of 750,000-1,000,000 total total troops of which less that half actually fought in battles, and if we accept Herodotus and others misplace the zero digits. But I only added Ctesias' 80,000, mostly because if you add the number of people who fought in Thermoplyae is, day one, 20,000, day two, 10,000, day three, 50,000, and then the RECYCLED 40,000 to soround the Greeks in the end. It equals 120,000, but i omitted the extra 40,000, because Ctesias himself says that they were the same troops who fought in the previous days. For example you would not add an extra 300 Spartans every day of each battle, you would keep it at 300, because they were RECYCLED for the next days battle, most likely they were survivors of the three days previous battles. He says 10,000 Immortals and 30,000 survivors was what the 40,000 was composed of. Also Ctesias is a historian that lived at the time of Herodotus and had personal access to the Persian archives, and may have written more books than him, which some fragments remain and most are lost. So to leave his account out, is simply biased and stupid, and if were only going to listen to Herodotus on thermoplyae, than we should remove all other accounts of other historians for all other battles to be as biased as this article. Thank you, bye.--Ariobarza (talk) 09:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Excuse the tone of this comment. It is from a long time ago to other people, but I put here so you can read, so sorry if it sounds like I was offending you, which I am not.

And I never said we should omit the modern consensus, only to omit it from the campaignbox#, because the numbers are always changing, and by the way, THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE ARE STILL COMING UP WITH MODERN CONSENSUS'S IS THAT THEY DON'T RESEARCH TO FIND OUT THAT AN ANCIENT HISTORIAN WROTE THE NUMBERS FOR THE PERSIANS IN A BOOK CALLED PERSICA ONLY FORTY YEARS AFTER HERODOTUS HISTORIES CAME OUT!--Ariobarza (talk) 06:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Ok. _{El Greco}^(talk) 17:05, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Top Gear

Are you willing to reach a negotiated settlement re: the Top Gear issues, or do we carry on with the fun and games? Please see the Top Gear discussion page for more details. SabineSchmitz (talk) 18:34, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

This is the person who has added onto the strech limo challenge. I ask this question. How come I can't add detail to this challenge when other challenges have lots of detail. Its not fair. For example the Amphibious car redux challenge has lots of detail in it. If that challenge can have detail in it then shurley the limo challenge can have detail in it. If you allow my edited limo section to stay I will not change any more challenges. I promiss. It's not fair that I can't do it and others can. Thanks for reading. Oh and I know my spelling in these senteces are terrible so don't complain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.108.171.164 (talk) 14:11, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

please reach treaty in revert war

Hi El Greco, Can you please discuss with User:Chaparral2J what should stay on Top Gear (series 11) here: Talk: Top Gear (series 11) and end this miserable revert war.

Srsly guys - you are clogging up my watch page!

--Carbonrodney (talk) 03:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I started a discussion on the talk page, but from my past experience User:Chaparral12J seems unwilling to remove the fancruft from the Top Gear articles. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Istanbul proposal

Hi - I'd be grateful to hear your comments on this proposal. Biruitorul ^Talk 19:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

florina/lerin

I refer you to User_talk:Politis#Florina_slavic_name, as I already explained my reasons there. --Enric Naval (talk) 23:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Minehunters for the Hellenic Navy

Please restore previous version with the new minehunters. Perhaps Google (the source used by 91.132.62.130) is not a reliable source but the text there was a US Congress bill. You could use the following reliable reference instead: S. 3052: Naval Vessel Transfer Act of 2008. Sv1xv (talk) 04:53, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

If you got a reliable source then go ahead and restore it. The burden of proof is on the IP user, and the source he/she provided is not WP:V and WP:RS, nor is it my job to go search for a ref that makes the users edits reliable. _{El Greco}^(talk) 16:44, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Statue in Rethymno

I have seen that you contributed to the page of Rethymno, so may be you can help me. Recently I made photos in Rethymno. One is of a statue. I have sent twice an e-mail to different e-mail addresses of the tourist office in Rethymno with a question about what description to be used for the statue and if possible the name of the sculptor. No reaction. Do you know something about this statue or do you know where I can ask this? Thanks Wouterhagens (talk) 10:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Cars of Miami Vice

Dear El Greco,

As you can probably tell, I don't edit Wikipedia very often. In fact this was the first time I attempted it. And I didn't do to well at that. I'm not really up on the procedure so I'll just tell you here what I was trying to do and leave the editing up to you.

As a Cadillac collector and car enthusiast in general, I wanted to correct the misidentification of Ricco Tubbs' Cadillac.

1. It is a 1964 model not a 1963. I will post a link to the Cadillac Database website which is maintained by the historian for the Cadillac & LaSalle Club where you can view pictures of all years and models to help with correct identification.

2. There is no such thing as a Coupe de Ville convertible. As the name "Coupe de Ville" implies, it is a coupe, i.e. a closed, 2 door hardtop. The 1964 DeVille line (Series 63) consists of a 6window hardtop sedan, 4w htp sedan, and a 2dr coupe.

3. The convertible, although based on the coupe and sometimes referred to as a DeVille is a distinct model in the Series 62 line of Cadillac.

4. The correct description of Tubbs' car is a 1964 Cadillac Series 62 convertible

Cadillac Database (main page) http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/indx2001.htm (Go to heading marked Photo Pages and select year)

1964 Page http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/Phocad64.htm

1963 Page http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/Phocad63.htm

Sorry for the confusion when I tried to edit your page earlier. I hope this helps you. I really enjoy your Miami Vice car page as i always like to ID vehicles I see in movies and television.

I used to own a '64 like Tubbs' drives. I now drive a 1956 Coupe de Ville.

Sincerely,

Forrest —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.61.61 (talk) 01:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

First, these three refs state that it is a 1963 Cadillac: 1. Gromer, Cliff (Jul. 1987). "The Cars of Miami Vice". Popular Mechanics 164 (7): P. 85. Heartst Corp.., 2. Forbes Auto, 3. Winding Road. Second, Gromer writes Crockett’s partner, Ricardo Tubbs, played by actor Philip Michael Thomas, gets to pilot a pristine ‘63 Cadillac DeVille convertible.; Forbes Auto writes, Tubbs, meanwhile, tooled around in a 1963 Fleetwood Cadillac Deville convertible.; and Winding Road writes Plus there was still a Testarossa, an achingly cool 1963 Cadillac Coupe de Ville convertible, and a rotating cast of other sweet metal to lust after. These state either it was a Cadillac deville convertible or a Cadillac Coupe deville convertible. So these sources are pretty solid that it is a convertible Cadillac De Ville (with or without the Coupe). So......

The website you provide makes no mention of Miami Vice, and therefore just basing it off the photos can look like you are making a Original Research/Synthesis, which is not allowed by Wikipedia. I await your response. _{El Greco}^(talk) 16:35, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Alexandria

Hi El Greco, I want to thank you for being carefully following the article of Alexandria. Αγαπώ την Ελλάδα .--Elmondo21st (talk) 00:04, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. _{El Greco}^(talk) 15:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Aegean Sea

Hi.

• http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Template%3AAegean_Sea&diff=228469915&oldid=228307932

I'm curious to understand how the current version is less uneven than its predecessor. Please enlighten. Sardanaphalus (talk) 04:19, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

First, in your version, the size of the image was significantly reduced making it almost unreadable. Second, you shifted the image up which resulted in the lower lists extending to the end of the template, while the upper list went to where the image began, thus creating an uneven look to the template. Third, you produced gaps below the two headings (General and Islands) and gaps between the lists. That's why I changed it back to how it was before. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for explaining. I think it's all related to keeping different window/screen sizes in mind, so it'd be useful to know what size window/screen you use. I'll then give it another try, retaining the size and position of the map and hopefully leaving no gaps. Otherwise I'll just reinstate the linewrap handling. Hope that's okay. Sardanaphalus (talk) 01:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Really, its fine the way it is. There is no need for any extra styling to be added. Any reduction in line spacing will probably be negligible and some words have special characters in them anyway, so reducing the gap between the lines might interfer with the actual text. _{El Greco}^(talk) 14:35, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

• Well, it doesn't look that great here (Firefox v2.0.0.16 on a Windows XP PC), in particular the relatively large chunky dividers and the space above/below the map. Sardanaphalus (talk) 06:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

It looks fine on the Firefox 3.0 and Windows XP PC I'm using. The only difference I see between IE and Firefox is the font, and that usually is a browser setting that can be adjusted. I view your template version on Firefox and it looks just the same as it does on IE. _{El Greco}^(talk) 13:44, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

NLG infobox

Hi, your change to the website reference is definitely better than what I had done. See also how I finally presented the link for the Swiss National Library - you might even prefer this way. I'm less convinced by the double parentheses around the branches' names. The equal sign is recognized and understandable for equivalent forms. Why not leave the '=' ? χαίρετε, Clpda (talk) 16:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for compliment. How does this new updated styling change look? I took your advice and removed the double parentheses and put a slash / instead. _{El Greco}^(talk) 17:12, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that looks better! (I also approve the line break in the 'director' field)

Note however that the equal sign is generally recognized as a statement of equivalence. If you want to stand the preeminence of the Greek version, what about putting the transliteration between (single) square brackets, e.g. Αγία Παρασκευή = [Agía Paraskeví] ?

On the other hand, the slash often means "or", i.e. an alternative, whereas it is not the case here: the two denominations are equivalents not alternatives.

This is basically a cosmetic issue and I won't fight - δε πειράζει πολύ. χαίρετε, Clpda (talk) 22:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

With thanks

		Military history service award
		By order of the coordinators, for your good work tagging and assessing military history articles in Tag & Assess 2008, I hereby award you this Military history WikiProject Service Award. --ROGER DAVIES talk 09:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

		Military history service award
		By order of the coordinators, for your great work tagging and assessing military history articles in Tag & Assess 2008, I hereby award you this Military history WikiProject Service Award. --ROGER DAVIES talk 09:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

---

Thank you very much indeed for your help with and commitment to the drive. May I please trouble you to comment at the post-drive workshop? Your feedback will help us to improve the next drive. Thanks in advance, --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 09:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIX (July 2008)

The July 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Howard Hughes

Read the edit history of the article; I am the primary editor, the other editor changed the style of my edits to his preference. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 21:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC). ..and don't template me again. Bzuk (talk) 21:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC). ...enough!Bzuk (talk) 21:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC).

Cite templates were not used in the article previously, and when introduced, still do not record day-month-year date conventions properly. I have been involved in numerous successful FA and GA articles, none of which had citation templates (which still remain "buggy" and do not conform to all information presented, and unlike your "rosy" view of them, do not work in most instances as the "garbage in, garbage out" syndrome is in effect). Now you accuse me of WP:CIVIL? I am beginning to think that you simply do not understand the nuances of the English language and cannot follow conversations as evidenced through your edit comments. Your actions throughout the "conflab" were extremely inappropriate as you reverted outright as if a vandal attack was taking place on the article, ignored talk page messages, instead used a series of templated warnings and went after me on an ANI like I was some vandal that needed a reprimand. FWiW, this is my last note to you, have a good day. Bzuk (talk) 14:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC).

Show me an example. _{El Greco}^(talk) 16:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Do I take it that you are willing to discuss in a reasonable manner? If so, let me show you an example which I recently completed all the citations and references for an article and it reached not only GA and FA status but was also the feature "main page article." See: Anna May Wong. If you read my background, you will find that I have been a librarian, writer and editor for over 30 years and have experience in cataloging. I have used all systems from the 1970s on and rely basically on a written out bibliographical convention that allows for more flexibility. The templates were written as an "aid" to those editors who wanted to contribute to Wikipedia but did not have the skills, background or knowledge in cataloging sytems. They are an aid, not the "be all and end all" that some editors consider them as. If you read about wiki citation styles, templates are neither recommended nor mandated. Many editors can compile bibliographic citations on their own, I happen to be one of them. Now, just to make myself understood, I do not revert citation templates out-of-hand, I use them when they are the established format of an article. If they can be adapted, like they were in the B-17 Flying Fortress article, then I adapt and convert them rather than replacing them. Due to the complexities of trying to change date formats because the templates were only written for an ISO date standard, either all dates are changed to ISO which then becomes unreadable for newcomers who do not have date preferences set in their browsers, or the dates are written out in either day-month-year or month-day-year formats. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 17:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC).

You want to first knock it off with the behind the back attacks? "FWiW, I really don't think he has quite the grasp of nuances of the English language and I am sure that he does not read the edit commentary with an understanding. BTW, he previously did not make any submissions or contributions to this article. Bzuk (talk) 14:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)." You think that's going to make me discuss thinks in a reasonable matter? First knock off with the behind the back attacks and we might get somewhere. That is unacceptable by any standard and not for Wikipedia. I'm sure Wikipedia:Etiquette states something about making negative comments about a user behind their back. _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Look, I said the same thing to you up front. This isn't getting us anywhere, you don't bother to read my entries and are in a perpetual "attack mode." I don't need this, find someone else to talk to. FWiW, I've removed the Howard Hughes article from my watch list. Bzuk (talk) 22:47, 6 August 2008 (UTC).

The Official Site of the Prefecture of Corfu

You write : " Please stop adding inappropriate external links to Wikipedia, as you did to Corfu. It is considered spamming"

I am the webmaster of the official Tourism Portal of the Local Authority "Prefecture of Corfu" http://www.corfuvisit.net I don't understood why the official multi language site of the Top Local Authority of Corfu, Paxos, Mathraki, Erikussa and Othoni Islands, A site with the most accurate descriptions and information about those islands, Is for your opinion " inappropriate external links" Othon Michalas - Webmaster

Because you are suppose to add the link to where it is relevant. That is to Corfu only, not every article related to Corfu. _{El Greco}^(talk) 12:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

???

The Local Authority "Prefecture of Corfu" is responsible for all islands, towns, villages on Corfu, Paxos, Mathraki, POthoni, Erikussa and is obligated to support accurate descriptions and information for all the territory. I know that only profit sites has a revenue for spamming. The official site of the Prefecture of Corfu is a Non-Profit site. The only motivation is the accurate descriptions and information. I am working correcting your information to. Othon Michalas

Per WP:NOT, "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files". That does not mean that every related article to the Corfu Prefecture Tourism organization, needs to have a weblink to it. One link on the relevant article (ie Corfu Prefecture) is enough. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Question

Hi again. I'm curious: What size window/screen do you normally view/edit Wikipedia on? And, when doing so, does your browser have any toolbars/sidebars/etc open? Sardanaphalus (talk) 17:24, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

1440x900 17" Widescreen

1920x1200 24" Widescreen

1024x768 17" Fullscreen

All three have Google toolbar. _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks. I was wondering if you used only high resolutions like the first two, but 1024x768 on a 17" screen is lower than the 1152x864 on 19"/20" screen I regularly use. (1440x900 on 17"? Surely that's tiny?..!) Sardanaphalus (talk) 08:56, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Athens 2004 logo.png)

Thanks for uploading Image:Athens 2004 logo.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Veria

Greetings, Relating your last edit on the page two of the people you removed from the famous people list were actually not famous, but Pavlos Kontogiannidis is a very famous actor in Greece and has had many starring roles in many Greek movies and TV Series. On the other hand, if someone is considered famous if they have a wiki article then you did well removing him. Please answer on my talk page. Thanks :) Sergiogr (talk) 22:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

You might as well add him back and i could see to it that an article about is created some time in future. Thanks Sergiogr (talk) 22:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Aegean Islands

Please, wait than I can write! Look at North Aegean islands, also Nordägäische Inseln, Thrakische Inseln (North Aegean Islands, Thracian Islands) and Ostägäische Inseln (East Aegean Islands)
--PKo (talk) 21:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I still fail to see where German wikipedia got that from. _{El Greco}^(talk) 14:00, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth (not much), I have a volume of the big yearly Diakopes tourism catalog here; it distinguishes "Nisia anatolikou Aigaiou" from the islands of Macedonia and Thrace (basically just Thasos and Samothrace), with Lemnos already among the "East Aegean" ones. Not that these classifications matter very much at all, as far as I can see, and I really don't know if there's any corresponding usage in English. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:51, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

User:Arditbido

Hi! Could you see User:Arditbido edits in Northern Epirus, Mirela Manjani and Savva Lika? - Sthenel (talk) 14:03, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

List of countries spanning more than one continent

Please, look at e.g. the image Continental Shelf Border.PNG before You are going to edit the article
--85.156.17.213 (talk) 17:07, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Not sure i understood your action regarding the retraction of a link

I found a website related with Greece typing GR at MSN
It was useful for me especially when i tried to search Greek forums
I thought my contribution will be helpful to others, instead you deleted the link without any prior discussion before the deletion
Wikifan02 (talk) 00:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Map kozani.jpg

This image is not exactly the same as the image deleted in Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2008_June_29#Image:Kozanimap.jpg. It is very close but there are font differences and other details. Please nominate the image at WP:IFD and go through the process. Maybe a the uploader will participate in the discussion this time. If not, the image will be deleted again. Thanks, -Nv8200p talk 13:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Nominated. _{El Greco}^(talk) 15:44, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Λοιπόν, οσο αφορά το συγκεκριμένο χάρτη, τον έχω ζωγραφίσει στη ζωγραφική του υπολογιστή, και φυσικά

δεν είναι σκαναρισμένος (αυτό φαίνεται ξεκάθαρα). Σβήσε τον όσες φορές θέλεις, το καλύτερό μου είναι να κάνω χάρτες και μπορώ να τον κάνω με 1002 διαφορετικούς τρόπους. Πάντως η σχεδίαση έγινε με βάση τον εξής χάρτη ο οποίος μπορεί να χρησημοποιηθεί και να τροποποιηθεί ελεύθερα: http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Image:Macedonia_greece.png. Ευχαριστώ. --makedonas (talk) 19:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Spy Who Loved Me edits undone.

Hi, I notice you appear to have undone a few edits and/or additions to the "The Spy Who Loved Me" article on the basis the source is not identified. All the edits were relevant and simply added to the information already quoted using the same source as the original entry, hence no additional sources were identified. Although a source/reference is always useful is it critical? Does not having a direct reference cheapen the additional info? Some of the edits simply collate facts that are clearly visible in the movie in question. What's the point of using the very subject of an article as the source/reference for that article? Some useful/interesting additions have been needlessly deleted and as a result some of the information presented is incomplete, misleading or plain wrong. For example, in the article it states two Lotus cars were used for filming. No source of this is identified yet when the use of a 1/3 scale model was added that edit has been undone. Why? I have been trying to re-edit the additions to include source references but as fast as I type, you are undoing the edits. Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.96.9 (talk) 22:24, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Notice you've undone subsequent edits citing "source?" as the reason. Can you verify the source you are using to discount the edits?

Re: Deleted Titanic edit

El Greco, Sources for my deleted edit, "as Jack Phillips and Harold Bride, the Marconi radio operators, were employed by Marconi and paid to relay messages to and from the passengers, they were not required to relay such "non-essential" messages"

As to "as Jack Phillips and Harold Bride, the Marconi radio operators, were employed by Marconi"...I cite page 490 of "Titanic & Her Sisters Olympic & Britannic" by McCluskie/Sharpe/Marriott, page 60 of "Unsinkable - The Full Story" by Daniel Allen Butler, page 33 of "The Titanic" by Tibballs, page 52 of "Titanic - Legacy of the World's Greatest Ocean Liner" by Susan Wels, page 37 of "1912 Facts About Titanic" by Merideth

As to "and paid to relay messages to and from the passengers"...I cite page 61-62 of "Unsinkable - The Full Story" by Daniel Allen Butler, page 63 of "The Titanic" by Tibballs

As to "they were not required to relay such "non-essential" messages...I cite page 37 of "1912 Facts About Titanic" by Merideth, which states, "Marconi wireless operators were employed by the Marconi Company and not by the ship or its owners. The operators were contracted out and reported to their company offices first and to the ship's officers second. The operators were only required to pass information on to the crew of the ship if the information was related to an emergency..."...I cite page 20 of "The Discovery of the Titanic" by Dr. Ballard, which ..."because of the lack of coordination between the bridge and the wireless room and the absence of any standard procedure for dealing with ice warnings". I cite page 60 of "Unsinkable - The Full Story"...which "What was most noticeably lacking was standardization...no definite order in the ships' crew organisations as to where the wireless oeprator belong." as evidence that Phillips/Bride had no formal reporting structure. I cite page 66 of "The Titanic" by Tibballs as further evidence that "Phillips was apparently preoccupied with transmitting messages that had accumulated during the day." as opposed to the ice warnings. I cite page 79-80 of "Titanic - Legacy of the World's Greatest Ocean Liner" by Susan Wels...for Phillips and Bride focusing on the backlog of private commercial traffic after the wireless had been broken on Friday night...their focus was on the commercial traffic, for which they were paid (report to Marconi offices first). The "non-essential" is a hind-sight adjective (sarcasm), as these messages should have taken precedent and treated as an emergency.

Howelto (talk) 17:37, 26 August 2008 (UTC)Howelto

Note: Please see centralized discussion at Talk:RMS Titanic#Marconi radio operators, which already contains the above information. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Athens

Hi El Greco. First let me thank you for the support at the Greek Junta Trials AFD. What was that? Anyway now we seem to have a little problem with a single purpose account who wants to replace maps with street pictures. I already gave him a [[WP:3RR]] warning and opened a discussion on his/her talkpage. Take care. Dr.K. (talk) 20:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Your Welcome and thanks for the look out on the Athens page! There is always someone who wants to either add a ton of images to the Athens article, or replace the ones there with other ones that are irrelevant. It only happens with Athens. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:51, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

??

I have no idea what you are talking about.. What does this have to do with the insistence on presenting the population of the Municipality of Thessaloniki as the population of the City of Thessaloniki?

(paste from the Wikipedia article "Thessaloniki")

"According to the 2001 census, the municipality of Thessaloniki had a population of 363,987, while the metropolitan population approximates one million inhabitants."

In the article "USA" it is written : New York City / 8.250.567 ... Do you see only Manhattan or Bronx referred to?

What does anything (and especially your post in my page) have to do with the fact that we erroneously present the Municipality of Thessaloniki as the same thing as the city of THessaloniki?

GK1973 (talk) 01:16, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

		The WikiProject Barnstar
		For your help with improving future Milhist drives at the 2008 Tag & Assess workshop, please accept this WikiProject Barnstar. --ROGER DAVIES talk 07:36, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, if you're keen to keep your assessing skills honed, we are currently very short of reviewers for Milhist A-Class reviews. Broadly, the five A-Class criteria are just beefed up versions of the B-Class criteria and anyone with B-Class experience should have no trouble with them. Also, as a reminder, in the wide-ranging A-Class review, it is not necessary to comment on all five criteria: if you're short of time, you can simply focus on the aspects that interest you most (sources, comprehensiveness, prose, graphic content or whatever). You can track which articles are up for A-Class using this template: {{WPMILHIST A-Class Review alerts}}

All the best, --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 07:36, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. _{El Greco}^(talk) 19:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Pleasure, --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 06:30, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Metro

What do you think a "metropolitan" area is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.218.181.147 (talk) 20:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

In urban studies there is no clear definition of “metropolitan” areas. Instead, in civic design there is clear definition of what an “urban” area is – continuous urban space OR neighboring settlements with distance between them of less than 200 m. It doesn’t matter if there are different municipalities inside an urban form – since it is continuous (or less than 200 m from limit to limit) it is one ‘Urban area’. In this way there are 73 municipalities that form “greater” Athens (including the one of Athens, Piraeus and 71 more). ‘Real’ population: 3.361.086 (2001).

How can we define the wider metropolitan area of Athens? What is this zone of influence that covers both urban and peri-urban space?

1st approach: The ‘Athens Master Plan’ by the Greek ministry of environment (1985), that is the development plan for metro Athens. It covers the full area of Attica (then it was a ‘Prefecture’ – from 1987 and on it is a ‘Region’ than contains 4 prefectures in it, because of its demographic size) with the exception of the islands of Cythera and Anticythira (both have a population of around 3 thousands). This is why the new Athens Airport is located outside the urban area (like the previous ‘Hellenikon’) but inside the metro area (Spata), so do the new ports that serve greater Athens along with Piraeus (Rafina and Lavrio) etc. SUGGESTION: open Google Earth, check ‘Borders and Labels’ and go to Athens: you will see the borders of ‘Attica’ and the prefectures inside it (Athens - Piraeus East West). The prefecture of Athens covers the most of the city but not even the ‘urban area’ of Athens!!! At south the suburbs of Voula and Vouliagmeni, at north Acharnes and Thrakomakedones belong to East Attica Prefecture, Ano Liosia and Zefyri belong to West Attica Prefecture etc. And all the previous prefectures are parts of the ‘strict’ urban area – not to mention the wider metro area that covers the Thriassion Field (at west, Elefsina, Aspropyrgos etc, that is the industrial zone of Athens) Mesogaia (at east, Spata, Peania, Koropi) etc. So, the population figure 3.192.606, that is the one of Athens Prefecture, does not cover the metro area, not even the urban area of Athens!!! Do not ask why, local administration in Greece is still chaotic.

2nd approach: Eurostat uses “Larger Urban Zone’ as a form of ‘metro’ definition. The criterion is ‘commuting’: what proportion of the population that resides at settlements out of the ‘urban’ area go everyday inside the core city in order to work and return to the outer settlements during night for sleep. In this way, some towns around big cities, although kilometers or miles away (so they are not part of the urban area) are now part of the “metro’ area - see what Greater London Urban Area is (very clearly defined by the statistic organization of England and Wales) and the controversy over its metro area – how far it goes. Some use commuting of 40% of the total population as their threshold, others 20% etc. The national statistic organization of Greece uses the full Attica again as a definition of Athens LUZ – do not let the figure 3.894.573 fool you – it is the population of Attica as well (2001) but not the ‘real population’ (3.761.810), it is the ‘permanent population’ (counts the people who live permanently in Athens but the night before the census were away from it). Check out statistic.gr for more info.

So do not let the fact that there is an “Athens Prefecture”, much wider than the Municipality, make you believe that it covers the full city. 3,192 ml (prefecture) is just a part of 3,361 ml (urban area) that’s again a part of 3,761 ml (metro area / Attica). You may believe that Attica is not absolutely correct as Athens metro area – you may be true. Some believe that the metro area of Athens extends to a few municipalities in Viotia, Korinthia and north Evia – they may be right but the population figures do not change significantly since these areas are small.

Ask me whatever else you want – by the way I am a Lecturer of Urban and Regional Economics (I really am…). If you want we can talk about Thessaloniki, Patra etc.

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.218.181.147 (talk) 22:29, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

The prefecture population cannot be used because it includes locations not connected to Athens (Antikythira, Poros, that part on Peloponessos, etc.). Second, the metropolitan area should include continous urbanized built up areas. Third, the LUZ would over inflate the population of Athens because of that whole commuting factor (take NYC for example, I think something like 1 million people commute into the city each day). Fourth, stating Attica as the metro pop/area would result in an area greater than Greater London with an even smaller population. Fifth, there is enough disclaimer within the article that the population of Athens is probably larger than what the statistics show.

Yes, I know the prefecture of Athens is not all of the metro pop, the prefecture is only like 2.6 million, the other adjoining cities (Pireaus etc.) make up the 3.2 million metro pop. _{El Greco}^(talk) 23:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for participating El Greco

A- I agree about the islands and Troizinia (Peloponisos) the population of this area is no more than 60.000 – even then 3,7ml is closer to 3.761 than 3.192 B- I have already explained, continuous urbanized area is ‘Urban area’, not ‘metropolitan’. Check out London, Paris. C- LUZ is not overestimating – I have already told, the population refers to the same area, it’s not the ‘real’ but the ‘permanent’. D- Greater London has a smaller area than Attica – but we cannot compare the two because GL is the municipality of London, not the ‘urban are’ and of course not the ‘metro area’. What is considered as London Metro is immense, many times the one of Athens Metro / Attica E- the difference between statistics and reality is another matter – now we discuss the use of the Athens Pref or Attica as Athens metro.

In your two final lines your misunderstanding is clear – the prefecture (of Athens AND Pireaus, you are correct - 3,192) does not include as you think the whole Urban Area – did you see Google Earth as I proposed? Then again metro area is not only the continuous urban. If you like change the title in the infobox – keep it 3.192 but name it Urban, not Metro. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.218.181.147 (talk) 06:11, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Take it to the Athens talk page so that other users may give their opinion, because the 3.2 million metro pop has been there for a while without anybody questioning it, and you have yet to establish a consensus which that 3.2 million is. _{El Greco}^(talk) 13:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 (UTC) on September 14!
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Greece situates partially in Asia

Image:Continental Shelf Border.PNG Don't You see and understand? (The articles Greece and List of countries spanning more than one continent.)
The islands of Greece on the coast of Asia minor, i.e. the Greek North Aegean Islands (excluding Saint Eustratius and Lemnos) and the Dodecanese Islands situate in Asia, look at the map in the image Continental Shelf Border.PNG.
--PKo (talk) 22:30, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Says who? An image is not a source and there is no source on that image. So.........source? Take it to the Greece and List of countries spanning... talk page as you have been reverted by multiple users. _{El Greco}^(talk) 22:43, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

The borders of Europe (or any other continent) do not follow state borders or are You claiming at that e. g. Turkish part of Thrace situates in Asia?

What is the source that Bozcaada/Tenedos island is in Asia, but Symi as if in Europe? The owner of islands does not explains it, look at for example the Spain-owned Canary Islands (in Asia) and also the Italy-owned Pantelleria and Pelagie Islands (in Africa).

--PKo (talk) 13:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXX (August 2008)

The August 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:57, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Greek Aegean Islands

Please, look at the map in the article of North Aegean periphery. Thasos and Samothrace belong not to the group of North Aegean Islands, but instead they are "only" two islands on the coast of the periphery of East Macedonia and Thrace.
--PKo (talk) 23:08, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The WikiProject Greece August 2008 newsletter

The August 2008 issue of the WikiProject Greece newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.--Yannismarou (talk) 10:10, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

USS Iowa ACR

I struck two of your comments becuase they have been addresed, but since some editors are particualr about who strikes comments in official forums like the ACR process I wanted you to be aware of this. If you would prefer to strike the comments yourself, or if you feel they haven;t been addressed to your satisfaction, please feel free to undo the edits. TomStar81 (Talk) 21:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

That's fine. _{El Greco}^(talk) 21:34, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:2004 Summer Olympics Calendar

A tag has been placed on Template:2004 Summer Olympics Calendar requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:58, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Removal of all images of Bond characters

I thought you might be interested to know about the removal of ALL of the images in List of James Bond henchmen in Die Another Day. There has been an argument that "there is no need to have images in the main film articles as we have the character images on the respective lists". If this is the case and given that the deleter of the images on die another intends to do the full whack pretty soon we will be left with no images whatsover of the James Bond film franchise. Is this what you want? The Bald One ^{White cat} 19:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

What are you looking for to be done, or what can I help with? _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:23, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

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