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Thanks man.

Ah, the blessings of silence.Geofferybard has given you a dove! Doves promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day happier. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a dove. Cheers!

Spread the peace of doves by adding {{subst:Peace dove}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

Need help

I uploaded a photo to Commons for Dave Bartholomew, although he is on the left of the photo, and Fats Domino is on the right. I already uploaded the one for Fats Domino from the same bunch. Can you please maybe splice the photo so we only have Bartholomew in the photo for an infobox? Here's the photo: [1]. Is that OK? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 02:33, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Beginning

Hello, Mr. Catfish.

Have just created a Wikipedia account this morning, in response to viewing the 1956 movie, Jacqueline. In researching the film (as I am wont to do), I found no Wikipedia article on the child star of the movie, Jacqueline Ryan, but found references to her actress mother, Phyllis C. Ryan. I was moved to post a page on Phyllis, adding external links for verification.

In researching Phyllis, I happened on this link: http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Eblana_Theatre

At the bottom of the article, a page on Phyllis Ryan was posted and recently deleted. Can you give me insight on how NOT to have an article deleted? Should I submit to you, or other administrators, first?

Thank you for any wisdom you can share on this topic, and please forgive the questions of a beginner! Jan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jswhite5806 (talk • contribs) 16:30, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Task force WP:RFA2011 update

Hi. As of 20 June: More stats have been added on candidates and !voter participation. Details have been added about qualifications required on other Wikis for candidates and RfA !voters. Some items such as clerking, !voters, and candidates are nearing proposal stage. A quick page`link template has been added to each page of the project. Please visit those links to get up to speed with recent developments, and chime in with your comments. Thanks for your participation.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 08:30, 20 June 2011 (UTC). Redirected here from User talk:Catfish Jim and the soapdish.

Proposed deletion of Judo in mixed martial arts

The article Judo in mixed martial arts has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unnecessary duplicative page, already covered at Mixed martial arts#Judo and Judo#In mixed martial arts. We do not need a page for every martial that is used in MMA.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Phospheros (talk) 17:25, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

The section exists in the Judo article, the stub text can be ported over.--Phospheros (talk) 17:49, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

MP3?

I came across several MP3 links in the text for the Patti Smith article (in the "Activism" section, in particular). I think they violate the copyright of the performer-- and would also violate the only other option I know of-- that of a Creative Commons license, since the two versions of that which Wikipedia accepts still requires attribution. Would you look at it? I'm no Admin. so... ? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 10:34, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Your input is requested

Greetings!

As a member of the RfA improvement task force, your input is requested at the possible proposals page, which consists of ideas that have not yet been discussed or developed.

Please look though the ideas and leave a comment on the talk page on the proposal(s) you would most like to see go forward. Your feedback will help decide which proposals to put to the community. And, as always, feel free to add new suggestions. Thanks!

Swarm, coordinator, RfA reform 2011

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 07:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC).

Museum of Scotland

Jim, I was in Embra 10 days ago. You will notice a lot of new photos at Category:Museum_of_Scotland on commons, many of which need articles - I've done Torrs Pony-cap and Horns & fancy Norrie's Law and St Ninian's Isle Treasure some time. I changed some of the pics on your articles, where I thought mine were better, hope you don't mind. I noticed a few links to the Proceedings of the SS of Antiquaries no longer work. Sometime Pictish symbols needs its own article. Keep up the good work! Johnbod (talk) 20:29, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

WP:RFA2011: RfA on other Wikipedias

A detailed table and notes have now been created and posted. It compares how RfA is carried out on major Wikipedias (English, French, German, Italian, Spanish). If you feel that other important language Wikipedias should be added, please let us know. This may however depend on our/your language skills!

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 22:50, 3 July 2011 (UTC). Redirected here from User talk:Catfish Jim and the soapdish.

Surgical assistance?

I need help to surgically separate that photo for the infobox atop the article about Dave Bartholomew. Please don't forget him, OK? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 15:36, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!! It was just what I wanted!! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 08:51, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Hey stranger, "Jim"- thanks for that. I'm right now trying to find people's specialties here. Initially, before becoming an Admin., User:Spinningspark (check him out!!) not only taught me about uploading photos- (wow, what one seed can do!!) but also would crop images since other than what you see me doing on Wikipedia and email, I'm computer illiterate and the PC that sometimes works for me is about 8-9 years old. So, I guess, I'm trying to reach out for willing editors who can crop photos, or make sound bites, or is looking to work in a team to bring an article to GA or FA standing, please do let me know. Also, on another note, my old demons have kicked up as well as other disabilities and a total lack of income, food, shelter, and the like, so, my input may be sporadic at best, manic and then.. who knows? But if you can help find others with talents to work.. I'd love to see Cream, Jeff Beck, Carlos Santana, Rory Gallagher, and Cat Stevens brought to GA status. (Cat Stevens was a GA ranked article, wouldn't take a whole lot!). Thanks. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 06:06, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi Leah, I don't have a huge amount of time at the moment, but had a quick look at Cream. It's quite a long way from GA and would take a fair bit of work to get there. If I can squeeze it in, I'll run a mock-GA review to point out the areas in which it could be improved. Catfish Jim (ex-soapdish) 16:04, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
Greatly appreciated! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 10:04, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikicast

Hi Jim, I recently attempted to create a page for the podcast Wikicast. It was deleted as there were no examples to show notability. The podcast has been reviewed and discussed on other podcasts including writer/director Kevin Smith's Smodcast Internet Radio, The Chris Taylor Show, and the Defective Geeks podcast. I believe these references will be able to support its notability and therefore could you please allow me to edit the page once again with these additions. Many thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tastykicks (talk • contribs) 15:51, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Rename prep

As a precaution against having your rename stall out, can you sign here and then log out within one minute after signing? –xenotalk 14:33, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Done. Catfish Jim (ex-soapdish) 14:34, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
You should be able to safely log back in now =) –xenotalk 14:42, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for that... much appreciated! Catfish Jim (ex-soapdish) 14:45, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
And it's back... Catfish Jim and the soapdish 15:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
That's better. Welcome back to the soapdish - we missed you. Daicaregos (talk) 19:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! The soapdish and Catfish Jim 20:48, 26 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The soapdish and Catfish Jim (talk • contribs)
Yay, all's right with the world once more! Good man! -- Derek Ross | Talk 03:19, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
chuckle... Catfish Jim and the soapdish 19:57, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Kirkcaldy

I need a bit of help with the article, Catfish Jim. Are you able to have a look at this for me and to do edits to the article particularly the geography section.

I have two sentences in that section that need clarification. The former mentions the fact that houses are impossible to be built to the south-west of the town because of thin drift and the latter of a so-called rising beach over the centuries down to sea level changes has been re-evaluated in the 1960s and 1970s. This is almost certain to have influenced Kirkcaldy's medieaval form and development. I believe with the latter that i'm trying to say that the raised beach was studied by archaeologists for the first time which may have had a direct impact on the medieaval form and development of the town. Not sure though.

p.s. I am still interested in helping you on the Dundee article. Unfortunely, i have had to abandon my work on the landmarks section purely because i don't know the city that well and also how all the information would fit in. with my work recently on Kirkcaldy and Dunfermline, i have had no bother because i know both towns and where the landmarks are located (well most of them!) I could offer to do the work for you on landmarks if you have the information and the sources, but i'm not sure that Wikipedia would let you do that though. Get back to me with that. Anyway, i am going to do some work on the culture section, when i will get round to that, i can't be sure. Kilnburn (talk) 11:56, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar

The Martial Arts Barnstar For your tireless tweaking and tidying on the Judo article over the last few days. Yunshui
Wow... thanks! Still a fair bit to do... Catfish Jim and the soapdish 14:04, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

RfA Reform update

Hi. It's been a little while since the last message on RfA reform, and there's been a fair amount of slow but steady progress. However, there is currently a flurry of activity due to some conversations on Jimbo's talk page.

I think we're very close to putting an idea or two forward before the community and there are at least two newer ones in the pipeline. So if you have a moment:

Thanks for reading and for any comments that you've now made.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 21:38, 6 September 2011 (UTC).

News and progress from RfA reform 2011

RfA reform: ...and what you can do now.

(You are receiving this message because you are either a task force member, or you have contributed to recent discussions on any of these pages.)

The number of nominations continues to nosedive seriously, according to these monthly figures. We know why this is, and if the trend continues our reserve of active admins will soon be underwater. Wikipedia now needs suitable editors to come forward. This can only be achieved either through changes to the current system, a radical alternative, or by fiat from elsewhere.

A lot of work is constantly being done behind the scenes by the coordinators and task force members, such as monitoring the talk pages, discussing new ideas, organising the project pages, researching statistics and keeping them up to date. You'll also see for example that we have recently made tables to compare how other Wikipedias choose their sysops, and some tools have been developed to more closely examine !voters' habits.

The purpose of WP:RFA2011 is to focus attention on specific issues of our admin selection process and to develop RfC proposals for solutions to improve them. For this, we have organised the project into dedicated sections each with their own discussion pages. It is important to understand that all Wikipedia policy changes take a long time to implement whether or not the discussions appear to be active - getting the proposals right before offering them for discussion by the broader community is crucial to the success of any RfC. Consider keeping the pages and their talk pages on your watchlist; do check out older threads before starting a new one on topics that have been discussed already, and if you start a new thread, please revisit it regularly to follow up on new comments.

The object of WP:RFA2011 is not to make it either easier or harder to become an admin - those criteria are set by those who !vote at each RfA. By providing a unique venue for developing ideas for change independent of the general discussion at WT:RFA, the project has two clearly defined goals:

  1. Improving the environment that surrounds RfA in order to encourage mature, experienced editors of the right calibre to come forward, pass the interview, and dedicate some of their time to admin tasks.
  2. Discouraging, in the nicest way possible of course, those whose RfA will be obvious NOTNOW or SNOW, and to guide them towards the advice pages.

The fastest way is through improvement to the current system. Workspace is however also available within the project pages to suggest and discuss ideas that are not strictly within the remit of this project. Users are invited to make use of these pages where they will offer maximum exposure to the broader community, rather than individual projects in user space.

We already know what's wrong with RfA - let's not clutter the project with perennial chat. RFA2011 is now ready to propose some of the elements of reform, and all the task force needs to do now is to pre-draft those proposals in the project's workspace, agree on the wording, and then offer them for central discussion where the entire Wikipedia community will be more than welcome to express their opinions in order to build consensus.

New tool Check your RfA !voting history! Since the editors' RfA !vote counter at X!-Tools has been down for a long while, we now have a new RfA Vote Counter to replace it. A significant improvement on the former tool, it provides a a complete breakdown of an editor's RfA votes, together with an analysis of the participant's voting pattern.

Are you ready to help? Although the main engine of RFA2011 is its task force, constructive comments from any editors are always welcome on the project's various talk pages. The main reasons why WT:RfA was never successful in getting anything done are that threads on different aspects of RfA are all mixed together, and are then archived where nobody remembers them and where they are hard to find - the same is true of ad hoc threads on the founder's talk page.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of RfA reform 2011 at 15:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC).

A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Good Humor
This barnstar is awarded for the triumphant return of the Soapdish. Its presence was sorely missed, and its return is highly celebrated. Viva la soapdish! Christine, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 17:11, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

By Jove! Thank you very much! Catfish Jim and the soapdish 18:31, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Don't get in a lather...

Amazingly enough [2], it is: [3].

Still no reason to have it in the article, though! Yunshui 雲水 13:14, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

If it's official judo soap, I'm going to have to get me some. Thanks! Catfish Jim and the soapdish 13:16, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Catfish Jim and the soapdish. You have new messages at Ron Ritzman's talk page.
Message added 01:34, 30 October 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:34, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Adams

Personally, I think you were right the first time. :-( --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:26, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

I thought long and hard about it, but an article that presents a referenced factual account of an event cannot be described as a "Page that disparages, threatens, intimidates or harasses its subject or some other entity, and serves no other purpose." If it departs from a neutral point of view, or does not satisfy notability guidelines, then it rightfully should be edited for balance or discussed in AFD. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 15:38, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Coming with a request

Long time, no hear! I've been sort of off the grid. I came to see if you (or another editor you know who is good with photoshop stuff) will please take a look at the image in the infobox for The Moody Blues? Someone needs to yank all the watermarks and commercial BS off the photo. I'd doubt it's validity on the Wikipedia --or Wikimedia Commons were it not for an OTRS ticket there, since the source only takes the viewer to a blank page with the image. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 11:18, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Yep, that was pretty horrible... I've replaced it with a cropped version that focuses on the three core members of the band. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 11:40, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Removal of adminship

You alleged it is "not that big a deal to remove adminship." Could you provide some examples of people's adminships being removed in a process that is not a big deal? Thanks! Hipocrite (talk) 14:19, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Where there is undisputed abuse of admin tools or a security breach of the type being discussed in the RfA, things can move very fast indeed. One example that comes to mind was the User:Pastor Theo case, where he was desysopped and blocked for sockpuppetry. Another would be User:Scarian who was desysopped for an apparent security breach. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 14:40, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. I would note that for bog-normal abuse of admin tools or just generalized bad behavior, removal of adminship remains almost impossible - only incredibly abusive sockpuppetry (ordinarily abusive sockpuppetry is not a problem) and compromised accounts are desysoped without a big deal, I think. Hipocrite (talk) 16:33, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Sockpuppetry is subject to banning no matter how abusive... desysoping is kind of academic in those circumstances. General bad behavior that does not involve abuse of admin tools is covered by the same processes as they are for any other editor, eg. WP:RFC/U. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 16:43, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
(But, of course, don't confuse alternate accounts with sock puppetry...) The soapdish and Catfish Jim 16:44, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion

About the No Sleep Til Festival article, I was under the impression it met the criteria for deletion because the only reliable sources seemed to point to it happening, and not to it being notable. The fact that it's now become a one time event would seem like it's not that notable. Though I'd guess either way speedy deletion was the wrong way to go about it. Like you said take to AFD, perhaps I'll do that at some stage, I wouldn't think of it as something to worry about though. By the way, I'm never sure whether to reply on my talk page or not, so sorry if you would have preferred it that way. Anoldtreeok (talk) 13:15, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Not a problem.
Speedy deletion is for uncontroversial deletion. WP:CSD A7 is for articles where there is no indication of notability for the subject. If it had been a local village music festival which attracted an audience of 27 people (if you include people walking their dogs in the same field) then A7 would probably apply... unless there was some assertion of notability. Having Megadeath headlining is at least an assertion of notability.
If you had been the only author, then G7 would have been an option, but there were other editors who contributed. WP:PROD might be an option. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 13:46, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank you for showing me what to report him for. I wasn't sure what to click on originally. Jamcad01 (talk) 06:48, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

CopperCab

Why did you delete CopperCab? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madmen14 (talk • contribs) 23:57, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Because there was no credible assertion of notability in the article as per WP:CSD A7. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 00:10, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Catfish Jim and the soapdish. You have new messages at Jetstreamer's talk page.
Message added Jetstreamer (talk) 14:27, 17 November 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Re Bloody Knuckles

Is there a way you could send me a copy of this page? Thanks. Tinton5 (talk) 19:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Bridgette Raes Deletion

Hi There - I created a totally new submission for Bridgette Raes I submitted it for review. Do I have to do something to make sure the deleted version doesn't sow up in a search? (Paulinabrusca (talk) 08:51, 18 November 2011 (UTC))

Seriously THANKS!

I so appreciate the work you do - this is all new to me and I can't wait to put another article in. Glad a fellow Scott got his paws on my first effort. I thought you deleted my page because you found out I was from Bellshill! Now I know you just have really good standards. Thanks for beautifying and editing the Bridgette Raes article.Paulinabrusca (talk) 15:50, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks! Re: The Moody Blues-

There's an amateur photographer who continues to see bands he visited decades ago who are now back in action. I'm gonna try to teach him a little and maybe he'll upload more photos. He sent me an email from a recent Moody Blues concert. Here are some photos he proferred-- if you think they can be helpful in any way on the band or individual level, please let me know! There's a set here from him from Flickr: [4] His name is Michael Borkson, and has already contributed several photos and knows how to change the copyright status to a Creative Commons license. Just need the "go-ahead" for any we might like to use. Can you respond on my talk page? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 12:28, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Need help/advice on the Kirkcaldy article

I'm just wondering if you can have a look at the article for me, Catfish Jim. I would like to put the article forward for FA status, but i don't honestly think it is ready yet and i need some help/advice. (the article has already been through one failed nomination for feature article status back in July).

Just to let you know, i have also contacted Brianbolton about the article and i'm still waiting for a reply from him. Kilnburn (talk) 09:20, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

The toponymy section is dubious. I think we can lose the Pictish etymology. Johnston has it as probably from Cathair Caladin or Cathair cala dìon-ait:

  • Johnston, James B. (1934), Place-names of Scotland, London: John Murray

Kirkcaldy 1093 Kirkaladunt, c 1128 Schira de Kircalethyn c 1130 caladin caladinit, kaldin, 1451 Kircaldy. The 1st syll., as in Kirkintilloch, is G. cathair, 'fort.' The rest W.J. Liddall derived - and it is prob. - fr. Calatin, father of famous magicians in Bk Leinster. But 1180 -caladin suggests G. cala dìon and c 1150 caladinit dìon-ait 'harbour of refuge'

Catfish Jim and the soapdish 21:38, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

that's very interesting. i don't have access to the book, though. it does mention in the Burgh Records that a popular derivation of the name was Kil Keledi which translates as Kirk of the Culdees, a guess made by Martine and adopted by Sibbald, despite there being no evidence of the culdees in Kirkcaldy. Kilnburn (talk) 16:41, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Jim, the source for the etymology, Taylor and Márkus' The Place-Names of Fife, is an extensive and much more recent academic study in four, soon to be five volumes. It's reputable. Also per that source (and the article), the supposed Culdee connection is nonsense, wrongly perpetuated by its inclusion as an etymology in the OSA. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:56, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Catfish Jim and the soapdish. You have new messages at Kudpung's talk page.
Message added 12:44, 25 November 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

The Signpost: 28 November 2011

Check out Normaal -- your thoughts?

Hey, I stumbled upon this article about a band called Normaal. For myself, I think it rides the grey area about being an article at least as is in the en.Wikipedia. See for yourself, now that you are an Admin-- swing the mop whichever way it leans! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 14:31, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Leah, I'd say it's fine as it appears to satisfy criterion 2 of WP:MUS Catfish Jim and the soapdish 14:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

RFA thank you

Thank you for your comment and support at my recent successful RFA. Being now the new fellow in the fraternity of administrators, I will do my best to live up to the confidence shown in me by others, will move slowly and carefully when using the mop, will seek input from others before any action of which I might be unsure, and will try not to break anything beyond repair. Best, Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 21:38, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

I admit it

You got me. Nice one. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

It definitely lightened the mood a bit; I'm sitting here watching my Packers duke it out. Looking forward to becoming an admin. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:23, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Well, my man Donald Driver just got a TD, so it's looking good. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:44, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 December 2011

Locking page

can you lock 2011 in LGBT rights per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Otto4711#06_December_2011? the ip is persistently restoring under the label vandalism when similar ips have (and in no doubt this) been sockpuppets. [5] Tx(Lihaas (talk) 08:33, 7 December 2011 (UTC)).

The IP is bakc..(Lihaas (talk) 20:42, 11 December 2011 (UTC)).
It's not entirely clear to me that there is vandalism involved there, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable locking the page. You might want to take this up at WP:RPP. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 21:20, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Similar IP keeps coming int o revert without discussion (unlike that which we (oanother user and me ARE discussing on the talk page...and making progress i might add, however incrementally)(Lihaas (talk) 20:31, 13 December 2011 (UTC)).

Hi. In your recent article edits, you've added some links to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. For more information, see the FAQ or drop a line at the DPL WikiProject.

1980 European Judo Championships (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
added links to Sergey Novikov, Josef Reiter, Alexander Yatskevich and Felice Mariani
1978 European Judo Championships (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
added links to Sergey Novikov, Alexander Yatskevich and Felice Mariani
1979 European Judo Championships (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
added links to Josef Reiter, Vitaly Kuznetsov and Felice Mariani
1982 European Judo Championships (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
added links to Francisco Rodriguez, Josef Reiter and Alexander Yatskevich
1972 European Judo Championships (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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1976 European Judo Championships (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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1991 European Judo Championships (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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1963 European Judo Championships (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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