User talk:Belbury/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Fisher & Paykel link removal

Hello Belbury,

I can understand your apprehension about linking to a "blog source". However that blog source is the only source I was able to find providing some of the history on Fisher and Paykel, and from my read there wasn't any bias or issue apparent with it.. You can see in the edits I spent a lot of time working on that page and repairing its links about a year ago. If you have a better more authoratative link for the information I'd be pleased to move over to that. I myself spent a few months trying to track down the official "Pioneering Spirit: A History of Fisher and Paykel" a book published by Fisher and Paykel, but theres apparently only 2 copies left in the world, both in New Zealand University libraries and out of my reach. The link I provided is the best source I could find, and until a more reliable source is able to be attributed, I believe it should stay

Cheers

7336jeremy. 7336jeremy (talk) 13:21, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@7336jeremy It's an anonymous blog source on a commercial website, and from looking around their site it looks like a content farm, there are a lot of anonymous blog entries with AI-generated images, and possibly AI-generated text content.

Looking at the site again in more detail, some of the text definitely has an AI twang to it, such as Join us as we unveil the captivating story of Fisher & Paykel...

You added the source in November last year, and the blog source doesn't seem to be any older than that. I suspect that a chatbot has just been asked to write a history of Fisher & Paykel, and has repeated the content that could already be found in this Wikipedia article. Which is why you were able to use this one source to confirm so many of the article's statements.

I don't think Wikipedia can use this source. It would be better to have the {{citation needed}} templates to encourage editors to look for and add reliable sources. Belbury (talk) 13:52, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Belbury, I disagree that it should be removed.

"It looks like a content farm"

Its an appliance rental business that seems to largely specialise in FIsher and Paykel appliances? How far around did you look, try reading the first para of their homepage. I would agree that their content is written for commercial purposes given they're a business, but that doesn't make it bad content, or content written by AI, or bad content written by AI. Its content thats been provided by a commercial entity, yes, and so likely has been produced for commercial means. Does that make it incorrect? No. Are most of the other citations on that page from commercial entities - yes.

"some of the text definitely has an AI twang to it, such as Join us as we unveil the captivating story of Fisher & Paykel

Pure speculation as to whether content is AI generated. What qualifications do you have in determining whether content has been AI generated or not? At any rate what difference does it make if the information is factual and correct? An AI twang - sounds like an evidence based approach you're following there. Show me evidence. Run it through an AI language detector at least before you come back with a gut feeling about "twangs".

"You added the source in November last year, and the blog source doesn't seem to be any older than that"

I just checked the citation source and it says "Last updated on January 28th, 2024" Updated isn't published, Im not sure what you're getting at here? Is there a way to see the publication date? I'm guessing when I cited I couldn't find a publication date as there doesn't seem to be any present, it so I reverted to the citation policy of using the access date as the publication date.

"I suspect that a chatbot has just been asked to write a history of Fisher & Paykel, and has repeated the content that could already be found in this Wikipedia article."

Suspicions mean nothing without evidence. You cant just go around accusing people of things because you've got a bad feeling. I'm not even 100% sure what you're saying but I think you're probably accusing me of having taken the content off the Wikipedia page to have an AI chatbot write a timeline of FIsher and Paykels history from the information available on the Wikipedia page, on the Whybuy website, to then cite back to in a circular reference, and then deleting most of the information off the Wikipedia page? I mean sure, but then why is the Fisher and Paykel timeline so much more in depth on the cited link than on the Wikipedia page? Where is the content I would have to delete from the Wikipedia page, because there would be a lot of it? Why isn't it in the edit hisitory?

My edits on that page only consisted of cleaning up links and updating facts, I made no substantive changes to the content, its all in the edit history. The page frankly is a shambles and needs days of work put in by someone. FIsher and Paykel was bought out by Haier - in around 2013 I think - so having things like revenue and operating income don't even make sense anymore because those numbers arent available its a brand of Haier now, no longer a publicly listed company. But I certainly dont have the capabilities to go screwing around with the structure of the page so I have done what I can and left it.

"It would be better to have the {{citation needed}} templates to encourage editors to look for and add reliable sources."

I had a very similar discussion with another editor in my talks (User talk:7336jeremy) about this same article 49ersBelongInSanFrancisco when I wanted to remove a 404 link. It was their view that it was better to leave a citation to a 404 than to remove the citation completely. We ultimately agreed.

In this context, unless you have a better link to replace any or all of the citations with, it should stay until a substitute can be found. It's not a perfect citation but I'd expect you to know that no citation is perfect, there's just better and worse. If you want only peer reviewed sources from well regarded journals we should delete the whole article and most of Wikipedia. 7336jeremy (talk) 15:00, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@7336jeremy: My take is that https://www.whybuy.com.au/blog is a low quality source that (irrespective of the AI concern) doesn't pass WP:BLOGS: there's no author byline and it's clearly a vendor website content farm - for example, the next blog entry is What Number is The Coldest Setting On a Fridge?. If you disagree with that view and think that it's a valid source for Wikipedia, I can open an WP:RSN discussion to get some wider input on that.

If you agree that it's an unreliable source, I'd disagree with you that such a source is better than nothing. As you and 49ersBelongInSanFrancisco say, a dead link to a previously-functional reliable source is better than nothing, because someone else might be able to use that information to find a working or archived version.

But a live link to a source which may be factually incorrect (whether that's because it was written by an AI, or by a human whose job was to quickly write a lot of SEO blog entries without necessarily fact-checking them) goes against one of the basic pillars of Wikipedia, that all material must be attributable to reliable, published sources.

If the only source we have for a claim is an unreliable one, it should be removed and marked as {{citation needed}}. If there's some doubt, as {{unreliable source?}}. But we should never knowingly keep an unreliable source in an article and leave the reader to realise (if they click the link at all) that it's unreliable. Belbury (talk) 16:39, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@Belbury I dont think my citation is unreliable in the context of the other sources used by Wikipedia, and in the context of the page its one of the most reliable sources available.. In academia the lowest form of reference is that of a newspaper article or website (including Wikipedia ironically), and generally speaking a reliable source is considered a peer reviewed journal from a reputable publisher. A rare source to see on Wikipedia indeed. You seem to be unfairly picking on this one citation for whatever reason. As to the article - What Number is The Coldest Setting On a Fridge? - doesn't that just support the reality that they're an appliance business writing about appliance related things? If you read that article, its not low quality at all, and a content farm requires the content be low quality. I put the text through an AI text detector and it came back as written by a human. A business generating content in their area of expertise does not a content farm make, and one might expect an appliance rental business specialising in Fisher and Paykel to be one of the few organisations capable of generating reliable content on the matter. A business that in publishing incorrect information, is liable to have its reputaiton damaged. It's notalways in a businesses interest to spew out unedited garbage in the same way 1000 monkeys typing for 1000 years will give you Shakespeare. Your assessment that https://www.whybuy.com.au is a content farm is not supported by the evidence and a completely subjective assessment. You cant tar all commercial entities with the same brush that anything they write is automatically unreliable and part of a content farm. And if that is your position, why are you ok with all of the other citations from similar entities?

One of the citations for the Fisher Paykel article is a paywalled newspaper articles https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204349404578101793819992784 , a reference to the vendor website in a context which barely makes sense https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/ or even an obvious affiliate content websites with links to retailers https://www.canstarblue.com.au/appliances/brands/fisher-paykel-dishwashers/ The dead link http://www.delphion.com/fcgi-bin/patsearch that you're ok with leaving - we don't know what that even originally linked to because it's not archived (I've checked), but sure, that should stay apparently? On the same logic, if https://www.whybuy.com.au is taken down, then you'd be ok with the citation staying, but as long as the article and website is up, it should be removed? Have I got that right? Completely inconsistent application of citation standards.

Like I said, if the https://www.whybuy.com.au citation goes, most others deserve to go, not only in this article, but across Wikipedia. I'd be pleased for you to replace the citations with higher quality ones if you can find them, in line with citation standards. I could not, despite a pretty exhaustive search. If you cannot find higher quality citations then it should stay.

Cheers Jeremy 7336jeremy (talk) 17:45, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@7336jeremy: It doesn't matter how a particular source compares to others in the article, or how it might compare to sources we might find in the future. A source is either reliable and we leave it in, or unreliable and we take it out.

Do you think whybuy.com.au/blog is a reliable source? Belbury (talk) 18:03, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@Belbury, yes I think it is a reliable source. In WP:BLOGS: "Exercise caution when using such sources: if the information in question is suitable for inclusion, someone else will probably have published it in independent, reliable sources."

The information is suitable for inclusion, and as far as I can tell someone else has not published it in a higher order independent source. I have done the work.

As I said if a higher quality source is availalble for the same information it should be used, but in the absence of such a source then the Whybuy citation is sufficient. To remove the citation without also removing the cited information may also be plagiarism or breach copyright WP:YTCOPYRIGHT 7336jeremy (talk) 02:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't see the plagiarism concern, as you say yourself all the text was already there in the article before you added the reference in November making "no substantive changes to the content".

I'll open an RSN discussion. Belbury (talk) 08:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Belbury we can't know that the content on the wikipedia page wasn't taken from the cited source, especially since its the only one I could find. So there is a plagiarism concern.

Additionally with the dead link - You have no way of knowing whether that was a reliable source but there's an apparent presumption it is reliable? In the context of the low quality citations for the rest of the page and on the balance of probability it isn't reliiable. If the Whybuy link were dead with no archive, you'd be in furious agreement with me that the dead link ought to stay on the basis "someone else might be able to use that information to find a working or archived version." You cannot have it both ways.

You just have it in for this one source. Why aren't you making any effort to clean up any of the worse quality citations on the page, just this one? Why not help find a better quality citation? Why do you have a bone to pick?

This is the exact type of thing that makes Wikipedia toxic. People get involved and work to make it better than overzealous editors who don't contribute want to rules lawyer you into oblivion and you give up. The reason the Fisher and Paykel article as a whole is so poor as a whole is because of you and editors like you. Now you want to have a whole group discussion about it with a bunch of other editors who make no changes to anything. What if you just spent some time being productive and looked for a better source? 7336jeremy (talk) 09:13, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

The Wikipedia content pre-dates the registration of the whybuy.com.au website.

I've taken no view on any specific other sources. Belbury (talk) 09:26, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Question

@Belbury I understand you want to revert everything that comes from a blocked account. But what if their version were the good ones? Should we not restore them? These sock accounts were blocked for socks and their editions or reversions in this case are not necessarily bad. Yonasse (talk) 17:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Yonasse: No, it's that the articles flourless chocolate cake and marron glacé were protected due to edit warring, and I'm reverting them to the state they were in prior to that edit war beginning. If you think that the edit warred version is "the good one" and should be brought back, discuss it on the talk page. Belbury (talk) 17:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree that your version of flourless cake was the one previous edit war, even if wrong. But for Marron glacé the version previous edit war was without Itlay. Yonasse (talk) 17:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Actually no, it had Italy 79.17.172.126 (talk) 19:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Editor's Barnstar
		If it weren't for you reminding me about Dubai Mall, I wouldn't have noticed the errors. Thanks and congrats! KjjjKjjj (talk) 03:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Light Pollution

Please, to not start a edition war. Please revert the light pollution article to my version and read the refences before making any aditional changes. I recomend you to read about it before make any coments. Pmisson (talk) 09:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

@Pmisson: Thank you for opening a discussion! The best place to explain why your Light pollution is the presence of any artificial lighting. definition is a better one would be Talk:Light pollution. I'd be very happy to talk about it there. Belbury (talk) 09:03, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Soot

An article that you have been involved in editing—Soot—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Chidgk1 (talk) 07:21, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

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Declined speedy deletion: Le métro de Tony Hawk

Hi, @Belbury! I wanted to let you know that I declined your G3 speedy deletion nomination of the Le métro de Tony Hawk redirect to Tony Hawk's Underground as the former appears to be the French title of the latter. As such, it is a plausible redirect. If you disagree, you may bring the redirect to redirects for discussion for further input from the community. Thank you! Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 20:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Decentralized autonomous organization: Revision history

"Only add names here if the organization has their own article on Wikipedia" 8 from 11 in the list have no own article. Pleas google Lido DAO. reference is following, stop to delete. Amber hurt (talk) 11:01, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

@Amber hurt: The full quote is Only add names here if the organization has their own article on Wikipedia, or if you can provide an independent, reliable source that establishes its membership in this list's group, please. You need to provide the source rather than telling another Wikipedia editor to use Google.

If you've checked and you think some other entries don't meet that, by the terms of WP:RS, by all means remove them. Belbury (talk) 11:07, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

About to add references for Lido: https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2024/06/11/lido-introduces-restaking-vaults-in-collaboration-with-symbiotic-mellow-finance/

https://cointelegraph.com/learn/what-is-lido-liquidity-for-staked-assets

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomerniv/2023/08/21/4-liquid-staking-startups-that-are-unlocking-ethereums-potential/

https://www.forbes.com/digital-assets/assets/lido-dao-ldo/ Amber hurt (talk) 11:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

@Amber hurt: Thanks but I'm afraid Wikipedia doesn't consider WP:COINDESK, Coin Telegraph or WP:FORBESCON sources to be reliable, and the fourth link there is not strong enough for WP:RS, being a simple price listing. Belbury (talk) 11:18, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:Reliable sources/Perennial sources is not the only source for reliable sources, its about context, here you have more: https://www.thecoinrepublic.com/2024/10/12/whales-offloading-lido-dao-as-prices-struggle/ https://www.securities.io/investing-in-lido-dao/ https://crypto.news/lido-dao-price-gains-amid-market-wide-dips/ https://cryptoslate.com/aave-dao-evaluates-joining-lido-alliance-to-boost-staked-ethereum-market/ https://ambcrypto.com/lido-dao-ldo-dips-after-sec-goes-after-consensys-for-metamask-services/ https://www.cryptotimes.io/2024/08/12/lido-community-approves-steth-integration-with-bnb-chain/ https://dailyhodl.com/2024/06/14/crypto-analyst-says-large-cap-layer-1-altcoin-primed-for-a-breakout-maps-path-forward-for-bitcoin-and-lido-dao/ The point is, there are more then 10 000 articles about Lido DAO, not just a few. Amber hurt (talk) 11:31, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

@Amber hurt: It's about quality rather than quantity, one reliable source is preferable to 10,000 unreliable ones. Wikipedia:Notability (cryptocurrencies) gives a view on crypto news sites. Belbury (talk) 11:46, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Lido DAO, valued at over $1B with a top 70 utility token, should be added to the list as one of the largest existing DAOs—do you agree? Amber hurt (talk) 11:55, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

@Amber hurt: Not without a reliable source that's written about it, no, I wouldn't agree.

Perhaps raise this at Talk:Decentralized autonomous organization for a wider discussion. Belbury (talk) 11:59, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

You wouldn’t agree even if the information I provided is backed by CoinMarketCap and CoinGecko, the two biggest crypto project trackers?

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/lido-dao/

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/lido-dao Amber hurt (talk) 12:05, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

@Amber hurt: I would not agree that showing an entry on those trackers met has their own article on Wikipedia, or if you can provide an independent, reliable source.

If you think the criteria for inclusion on the list should be expanded to include "is backed by CoinMarketCap and CoinGecko", you're welcome to suggest that on the article talk page. Belbury (talk) 12:07, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

See Talk:Decentralized autonomous organization Amber hurt (talk) 12:43, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

My edit of Principal Component Analysis

Why are you reverting my minor edit on this topic, my simply adding a reference? Michael.greenacre (talk) 18:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Michael.greenacre: Hi Michael, it's because you're adding references to papers that you wrote yourself, across many articles. I've been posting messages to your talk page at User talk:Michael.greenacre about this issue but maybe you haven't been able to see them. Belbury (talk) 18:19, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I did write a note on Talk:Principal Component Analysis justifying my referencing our (6 co-authors) review of Principal Component Analysis published in 2022 by Nature Reviews. Can the reference now be reinstated? Michael.greenacre (talk) 08:02, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

@Michael.greenacre: Thanks. Whether it gets added is up to the editors who read that talk page. If you add the {{edit coi}} template and write a specific edit request (eg. saying exactly where in the article you want the link added), the request will be put in a queue that other editors will check in on. Belbury (talk) 08:13, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Source provided

Good afternoon @Belbury, just to let you know, I found a source that states about shawarma generally being Middle Eastern and not just an Arabic dish. As I found one source, please don't report me for edit warring. Thank you. ShawarmaFan07 (talk) 12:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@ShawarmaFan07: These are unrelated concepts. If you don't want to be reported for edit warring, don't edit war. Belbury (talk) 09:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Belbury But I found a source that supports the statement that Shawarma is associated with the whole Middle Eastern cuisine, not Arab. Hopefully you won't mind adding it on that article. Plus, I asked for a discussion on the talk page for you guys to explain why it should just be called an "Arab" cuisine, but there had been no response for several days. ShawarmaFan07 (talk) 09:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

My edit of Golden hour (photography)

I don't think a period directly after an image tag is necessary or intentional, as it leaves a blank line right after a section heading. --Gert7 (talk · contribs) 16:20, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gert7: Quite right, my mistake! From the edit diff I misread it as being after a wikilink rather than an image tag. I've reverted myself. Belbury (talk) 16:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Starter editor have a question

Hi,

I’m a starter editor. I understand what a reliable source is but the game I write on my article does not have an official website. The only way I can get references is through user generated content like a fandom wiki article. How can I get a reliable source without an official website. Nanb500001 (talk) 08:13, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

You asked this same, strange question at the Teahouse, so I'll leave it to them to answer. Belbury (talk) 08:59, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

On 7 November 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that several major U.S. politicians have spread conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Conspiracy theories about the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:YouTube front page.jpg

The file File:YouTube front page.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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Cappuccino; [1]

Hi. This image, which was already in the article, is the best and has no latte art; have we solved it? JacktheBrown (talk) 15:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

nbnw.org

I did not add the nbnw.org citation at costume party, I just moved it. My question is, why do you call it spam in your edit summary? I cannot find any discussion on it via WP:RS nor the accompanying list. Thanks, 73.218.17.248 (talk) 02:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, it was part of a cleanup of a domain that's been spammed across articles recently, and now blacklisted from Wikipedia. See MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist#nbnw.org. Belbury (talk) 10:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Awesome, thank you for the link. 73.218.17.248 (talk) 03:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Idioms

Why should we need the idiom cite? The source said it, so I do not think it's necessary. Also, please read sources carefully before you assume that the information is, well, 'non-existent' and reverting. ShawarmaFan07 (talk) 13:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

@ShawarmaFan07: See MOS:IDIOM, Wikipedia does not use idioms like someone having "one foot" in a place. Non-fluent readers won't know what it means, and I'm not completely sure myself what the sentence is trying to say. I'm not restoring the template because the information is "non-existent", I'm restoring it because the sentence uses an idiom when it shouldn't.

It needs to be rewritten in plain English or attributed as a quotation. Belbury (talk) 13:08, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

It supposed mean that Al-Maleki was squeezed between Western, American culture and culture from rural Middle East. In fact I originally said "clashed", but for some reason you deleted that, and when I reverted it back, I had to include this idiom because you will (as usual) nag at me for "not exactly matching the words with source". ShawarmaFan07 (talk) 14:15, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

@ShawarmaFan07: Saying that a person was "squeezed" or "clashed" between two cultures still isn't very clear, and risks implying that there was unwanted social pressure from her American friends, which doesn't sound like it was necessarily the case. I've rewritten it to be closer to the specifics given in the sources, that she had assimilated into American culture, but considered herself Muslim and was fluent in Arabic. Belbury (talk) 15:18, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Vital question

What does BLOCKEVASION mean exactly? 2A02:C7C:75BE:B300:1D2D:5594:24FC:6867 (talk) 11:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi there! In this case it means that a number of edits have matched those made in the past by a blocked user, giving the appearance that that user is trying to evade their block. Belbury (talk) 11:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm not a banned user but I will watch out for this in the near future. Can I still edit? 2A02:C7C:75BE:B300:1D2D:5594:24FC:6867 (talk) 12:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

If you're neither evading a block, editing at the direction of a blocked user nor restoring old edits by a blocked user, sure. Belbury (talk) 12:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Belbury - I suspect this IP is ShawarmaFan07, and appears to be within the same range as this user's other IP socks from what I understand. Will flag this on the ANI discussion. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 18:01, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, and I am sorry!

I hope I have communicated through my contributions at this point that when I say that "I am sorry", I really mean that it won't happen again. I am beyond thankful for your advice and guidance! Luke Elaine Burke (talk) 15:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

@Luke Elaine Burke: Absolutely fine, no harm done! I assumed it was a test edit made in error, but if you were trying to fix something in particular and need any help with that, let me know. --Belbury (talk) 15:21, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Bookmarks

All of your bookmarks are extremely valuable and appreciated. Your photography is also incredible and inspiring.

Best, Luke Elaine Burke (talk) 04:00, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

List of Glassware

Hello Belbury,

Below are some of the references cited and of course, undone. Could you help me understand how these linked references do not exist or presumably qualify as independent third-party secondary sources.

1. The Straits Times, National newspapers of Singapore: Chinnuswamy, Yamini (8 December 2022). Top Tipples: Whisky crystalware, Dom Perignon's new pairing menu, festive cocktails. The Straits Times. Singapore Press Holdings.
2. Robb Report, International magazine: Choo, Justin. January 11, 2023. The Lucaris Gràn Collection will change the way you drink whisky. Robb Report.
3. APAC magazine on beverage industry: Graham, Holly (November 18, 2021) Singapore whisky expert creates whisky tasting glasses with Lucaris. Drink Magazine.
4. Notable third-party drink writer in Singapore: Goh, Daniel (February 19, 2022) Reviewed: Lucaris The Gràn Collection is a grand way to taste whisky. Spirited Singapore.
5. Notable whisky writer in Hong Kong Eber, Martin (November 3, 2022) Style-specific Whisky glasses? Why not!? A review of Lucaris' new "Gràn Collection". Time For Whisky.
6. iF Design Award 2021 - Household / Tableware, Gràn Whisky Glass Collection. iF Design.
7. Tableware International Awards 2022 Ocean Glass is the winner of the Fine Glassware category with The GRAN Collection. Tableware International.

Can you help me relook into the deletion? I have edited based on facts, and all editions were duly referenced:

1. The glassware is a new / different shape and form.
2. Language used is neutral and non-promotional. No laudatory term was used. I was extremely cautious about this.
3. Sources / references cited are third-party, credible and independent - It has received third-party acknowledgement by iF award and Tableware award for its different bowl and mouth sizes, and usage, and covered by reputable publications.

I noted on conflict of interest. So, do I file in Category:Wikipedia conflict of interest edit requests and the COI template as the glassware is designed by my husband? Eseahfs (talk) 04:56, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

@Eseahfs: Hi. The List of glassware article is a list of classic examples of like wine glass and tankard, I don't see that it needs a particular subdesign of whisky glass that someone started selling last month. There are hundreds of such products. Discuss it on the article talk page if you like. Belbury (talk) 09:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Reversion on Content Moderation

Hi @Belbury, I saw that you reverted my addition of information about differing opinions on the page for content moderation (Content moderation). I didn't find any reasoning behind the reversion, although I understand the topic is somewhat controversial. That page has very little information about content moderation itself, since the page about content moderators was merged into it.

Are there any changes that you think would be appropriate? Silent reversions run against Wikipedia's recommendations (Wikipedia:Reverting) so I'd like to engage in dialogue with you on this. Websterhamster (talk) 21:03, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

@Websterhamster Hi, there was an edit summary.

WP:WEASEL "it is suggested that..." isn't a useful way to frame a definition, and from the sources you cited the content didn't seem immediately salvageable ("third year law student blogger Ben Horton suggests that..."). That was all. Belbury (talk) 08:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

List of robotics companies

Hi there! I noticed that you removed the maintenance tags for notability and sourcing from List of robotics companies with the edit summary "concept seems to meet WP:NLIST, references not required". Can you explain this edit? Per NLIST, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources". Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 19:03, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

@Significa liberdade: Hi, I took it as being trivial to confirm that press sources consider "robotics companies" to be a general grouping of companies, without it needing footnotes to show that this phrase has been used. If that's a misread, please do revert me. Belbury (talk) 19:21, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

To my understanding, this is one of the key differences between the uses of categories and lists. Categories are used to show similar groupings, some of which are notable for their grouping and some that are not. For standalone lists, the grouping itself must be notable. That is, independent, reliable sources should discuss the specific grouping (though this doesn't mean sources need to discuss every item on the list). However, I do realize that lists are a more contentious article type. Significa liberdade (she/her) (talk) 19:47, 7 December 2024 (UTC)