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The Mortal Kombat games

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TL;DR proposing to remove Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero.

On a narrow and fairly exclusive list, it's a surprise there's three Mortal Kombat games in five years in the list. Clearly reviewers didn't think these games were very good during this era of the franchise and it was not a good time for all involved. Does that make them eligible for an article about games notable for negative reception? Or is that a bit excessive? Let's look at the articles against the inclusion criteria:

Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero

  • Poor reviews? ☒N GameRankings scores are borderline: 53% (PS) and 45% (N64) both only from 5 reviews. The article cites praise for the PS version and 50%+ reviews, including reliable ones from EGM and GameSpot. I'd say that's quite a stretch to include this one unless there's a good reason. Unfortunately, as seen below...
  • Considered one of the worst of all time? ☒N No source provided calls the game the worst of all-time, although there is a few good sources for poor retrospective reception. Closest is an article about how it's one of the worst Mortal Kombat games of all time and another for it having one of the worst cutscenes. I'd say it clearly falls short.
  • Franchise impact? Question? IGN discusses that Midway did cancel a planned series with the concept, but the article also notes that it was "successful enough" and sold a million copies in spite of its poor reception, so it's not really supporting any inference that this game alone turned any fortunes in the franchise, only that one can infer that it started a downward trend in quality.

Mortal Kombat: Special Forces

  • Poor reviews? checkY Metacritic cites 7 reviews averaging 28%, and there's ten reviews all under 50%. Pretty cut and dry that this received terrible reviews.
  • Considered one of the worst of all time? Question? Yes, only by one GamesRadar+ all-time list in 2013. Otherwise not corroborated. The GameFront and other GamesRadar+ article are about its series performance.
  • Franchise impact? checkY Sort of but poorly cited. The sources illustrate it had a troubled development, poor feedback at E3, cut ports, and staff exits. There are unsourced statements that the game was rushed and that Midway put the series on hold for a while due to the poor performance of the game. That seems dubious as Deadly Alliance was already under development and came out two years later, closer than the 1997 release of Mythologies.

Mortal Kombat Advance

  • Poor reviews? checkY Metacritic average of 33% for 16 reviews. Pretty clear consensus.
  • Considered one of the worst of all time? checkY Yes, worst for the GBA by GameSpot and TheGamer, and worst of all-time by GamesRadar+. Easy three strikes, so no need to focus on other citations calling it one of the worst Mortal Kombat games.
  • Franchise impact? ☒N No real commentary on that. Virtucraft seems like they made GBA shovelware and this didn't stop them. The Retro Gamer commentary isn't adding any analysis when examining the original article, just calling it "utter garbage" compared to competitors.

VRXCES (talk) 07:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If MKAdvance is known to be shovelware, rather than a wholesome attempt at a GBA port, that's likely not reason to include it, as shovelware, by default is assumed to be bad. Special Forces may have reasons to be on here but you absolutely need strong sourcing on the last point about the series being put on hold due to it. Masem (t) 13:16, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's the gist - there's not strong sourcing for why these games are meant to be the worst of all time other than the few citations otherwise stated. I think it's definitely come from the context of being well-documented that these were bad Mortal Kombat games, but somewhere the wires got crossed as far as whether they are notoriously bad games in their own right in the same way Big Rigs or Gollum is. Plenty of bad games dash the hopes of publishers to follow up a direct sequel. Midway followed it up with another spinoff in a few years anuway. VRXCES (talk) 06:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is my paraphrase of the inclusion criteria. Ss0jse (talk) 18:07, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks - let me know if the above analysis was inconsistent. Could consider rewording the Talk page instructions as your paraphrasing does a better job of clearly setting the test involved. VRXCES (talk) 03:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That summary is not consistent with the criteria on this page. Importantly, just having a low score is not sufficient to be included on this list. Masem (t) 05:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, yes, was a prompt for a discussion for readability, not suggesting actually replacing X with Y. VRXCES (talk) 08:41, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

007 Legends

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A lot of under 50% reviews https://www.metacritic.com/game/007-legends/critic-reviews/?platform=xbox-360 and the IP Shovelware argument dont apply here because James Bond is known for having a lot of good and great games (GoldenEye is on the games considered the best list) 007 Legends legacy is known as the last Bond game in a decade and it was a good reason why Eurocom dont exist anymore. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:24F4:4A63:8057:1C4F (talk) 15:31, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This looks like fair game based on the details at the game article. Will look to add this later. — Masem (t) 15:39, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that it killed a studio and a lot of sub 50 reviews means it meets two critias. This game also killed the Bond video games for a decade (not sure if it was the quality of the game or the fact that nobody wanted to make a new Bond game after 007 Legends, but the fact of the matter is that Bond games dont exist after 007 Legends even if one is worked on now) You might say that this is an IP game, but people actually expect a way better game from a Bond game as Bond games after GoldenEye have good reviews. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:24F4:4A63:8057:1C4F (talk) 16:02, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I say Approved. Ss0jse (talk) 19:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Who will look to add this game later? Ss0jse (talk) 19:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daikatana

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The main reason I even know about Daikatana is Yahtzee Croshaw's video on it. Is it notable enough for this list? I mean, I began to add section for the game to this list, but I changed my mind. Ss0jse (talk) 01:55, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add a section. Sorry. Ss0jse (talk) 02:50, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Its a commercial failure, and listed there. Masem (t) 02:52, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Ss0jse (talk) 13:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dynamic list?

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Is List of video games notable for negative reception a {{Dynamic list}}? If so, we should probably add this header template:

Ss0jse (talk) 19:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IMO, dynamic list is an inappropriate hatnote when a strict list criteria is in place. It's not appropriate to invite people to simply add to it. -- ferret (talk) 20:27, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We also already say it's an incomplete list in the lede. Masem (t) 21:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Ss0jse (talk) 02:12, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pokémon Scarlet & Violet And Spyro: Enter The Dragonfly

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I decided to bring these two games up again like I did a while back as candidates. I also realize it was a mistake on my part to lump them in with Sword & Shield and Wrath Of Cortex before, because they are both far better in quality objectively than Scarlet & Violet and Enter The Dragonfly.

Both Scarlet & Violet and Enter The Dragonfly are technical disasters. Spyro in particular was so bad it caused a Japanese child to die from a seizure from the glitches in the game.

Nintendo offered buyers of Scarlet & Violet mass refunds. This is just my opinion too but I believe Scarlet & Violet was so bad it’s the main reason we haven’t seen another mainline Pokemon game entry in a while, and considering Game Freak pumps out Pokémon games like crazy annually since the 2010s that’s really saying something.

Spyro Enter The Dragonfly was so bad it caused the shutdown of Check Six Studio after it released, and I believe Eurocom Entertainment Software worked on A Hero’s Tail instead of Equinoxe Digital Entertainment because of how badly Enter The Dragonfly turned out. 2600:6C56:6C00:39B9:D5DA:FBAB:7317:CDB0 (talk) 14:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

enter the dragonfly is a maybe. its "debatable stability" is certainly notable for its standards... but the game itself might not be notable enough for this list. then again, the guy game is also here, so don't quote me on this one
scarlet and violet are absolutely not getting here. despite how much the games hate when people have functional necks for too long, their reception was still mixed at worst, but even then, the pokémon not named munkidori and the music have had pretty positive reception
also the wrath of cortex isn't that bad. i mean, it's bad and does dingodile dirty, but it's not material for this list cogsan (nag me) (stalk me) 16:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bringing up the same games repeatedly without new evidence is unlikely to change the status quo. -- ferret (talk) 17:05, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Besides what others have said, I think we're due to audit this list and remove games that clearly lack lasting recognizition by reliable sources as being negative. — Masem (t) 19:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to help with that. A potential approach to that is how I went about examining the Mortal Kombat games in the section above. VRXCES (talk) 20:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm the usual ScVi guy, the OP isn't me. I normally wouldn't intrude in these but the replies made it seem like you were talking to him like he's brought it up before. Cider621 (talk) 22:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's because the IP's very first sentence is literally bring these two games up again like I did a while back. -- ferret (talk) 22:35, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even me that thinks more games should be added dont think Scarlet and Violet belongs. The quality is simple not bad enough for this list. I do think Enter the Dragonfly belongs as well as Sonic Genesis GBA port and the shitfest that is Crash Boom Bang. Those two games are far worse in quality and are well known as well. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 21:10, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mega Man DOS (1990 video game)

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That article references this one, even if this game is not on the list. Based both on the reception part on Wikipedia and gameplay i watched i do think it belong. Based on weird aspects like impact, websites that i assume meets RS call it the worst mainline Mega Man game and there are some expections of quality being a Mega Man game after all.

https://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Mega_Man_(1990_video_game) 80.198.18.220 (talk) 20:51, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can i get a single answer? Like just one? 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:49C0:1B73:7C29:87FE (talk) 20:49, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this title represents an interesting issue. There's a lot of sourcing in the article putting it on lists of worst PC games/ports... but they're all 20+ years after the game released. Not a single actual contemporary source exists in the article's reception section. So we pass bullet #2 of the list criteria, but have no evidence for any of the other criteria. -- ferret (talk) 00:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to double-check why the following games should be excluded from this list

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(This list has been copied from User:Ss0jse/Games not notable for negative reception#List.)

Ss0jse (talk) 00:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

some of them are already on the commercial failures list like Anthem and SS. Others like Raid are mobile or indie games that we exclude on purpose Otherwise, these all are just low scoring games but with no indication of long-term renown for being a bad game outside of small circles. See the top of this page for why we look for more than just the scores. --Masem (t) 01:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Though we look for more than just score, a large number of these don't even meet the most basic criteria of a <50 Metacritic score. Mario Party 9 has a 73.... Mario Party 10 a 66. You have some series listed here, which we don't include, but which have games scored in the 80s. It's hard to address your list when you are applying your own independent interpretation of the LISTCRIT to construct it. The burden is going to be on you to explain why any of these game pass the LISTCRIT. -- ferret (talk) 01:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean, "LISTCRIT"? List of commercial failures in video games? Ss0jse (talk) 14:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's about 50 items here. Are you seeking feedback on each individual one or understanding why as a cohort these types of games have been excluded? If the former, it's much better to discuss against your own views on the criteria. If the latter, most of these look like there is some criteria or other relating to review scores, impact, and so on that don't make them a good fit. VRXCES (talk) 01:31, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I actually think Devil's Third do fit because there was a lot of hype for it and the reviews are negative. But that is just one game on the list. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:64F9:38F1:E8A6:DF75 (talk) 06:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RAID belongs way less than FFATB. FFATB actually have a lot of reviews on Metacritic and had the FF name behind it. RSL got nothing really. Evony is also a way better contender for this list than RSL. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:64F9:38F1:E8A6:DF75 (talk) 06:12, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other M got a 79/100 Metacritic. It is a flawed game, but it might be one of the suggested games that belong here the least. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:64F9:38F1:E8A6:DF75 (talk) 06:14, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Does Raid even particularly have negative reception? People hate it because of the marketing, not the game itself. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's the bulk of the problem with the list above. There are games that are disliked by gamers for reasons or another, like Raid's aggressive marketing, but that does not directly tie into being a game notable for negative reception, which generally has to start with critical reviews from journalists. Masem (t) 13:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Individual feedback, please. See also the non-first-level bullet points in User:Ss0jse/Games not notable for negative reception#List. Ss0jse (talk) 14:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ss0jse I think we should close this entire discussion, to be honest. You're operating from your own separate interpretation of the LISTCRIT (That's the list criteria at the top of this talk page, which I thought you understood), at User:Ss0jse/Criteria_for_notably_negatively_received_games#List_of_criteria. When someone wants to ask if a game should be on this list, there is a burden on you, the requestor, to make a case for inclusion. Asking the editorship at large to evaluate a list of some 80+ games is a waste of time in a vacuum. -- ferret (talk) 14:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to close this discussion, @Ferret. Ss0jse (talk) 15:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That said, thanks for putting the list together as a step towards considering what games may be worth taking a look at, even if this approach didn't quite yield the intended outcome. VRXCES (talk) 21:14, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most of these I added because one or a few critics disliked/hated them. Ss0jse (talk) 14:34, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, one to three critics usually. Ss0jse (talk) 14:38, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If only a couple critics disliked them but the rest are positive, that's not suitable for here. The critical reviews need to start with most critics having negative reviews. Masem (t) 14:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Devil's Third

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In the huge list above that have way too many games, that even i that suggested a lot of games on this talk page dont thinks belong. This is one of those games that i think belongs

The game was placed on Polygon's "Worst Video Games of 2015" list.[36] Similarly, it was also placed on GameSpot's "Worst Reviewed Games of 2015" list. Devil's Third


This is not an unknown game, several sources call it bad, there was a reasonable expection of quality and hype behind this game and finally it have under 50 procent on Metacritic. I think it belongs 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:3849:8F13:AF28:7F87 (talk) 16:02, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Simply being on a worse fame if a year list isn't sufficient as that doesn't give any indication of long term notability of being a bad game — Masem (t) 16:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Masem Score wise, it passes. The JP reception being positive seems to be sourced entirely to Famitsu without any other reviewers or reception noted, so I think that's a red herring. Industry wise, I wouldn't say it had an impact, but, Valhalla ultimately never did anything else and was bought out and merged. -- ferret (talk) 16:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The studio behind DT have some really well known people behind it
The studio is run by former Tecmo staff: Satoshi Kanematsu, who worked on Monster Rancher and Rygar, and Tomonobu Itagaki, a game designer known for his work on the Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden series.
It also sold badly and the studio got shut down and merged into a different one. But based on the people behind the studio and the long dev time (not a fast cash grab like those IP titles with a fast dev time) This means some expection of quality was expected of DT. Nintendo also published this game and was expected to be a big mature game for the WiiU 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:3849:8F13:AF28:7F87 (talk) 16:31, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should elf bowling 1 + 2 (GBA and DS) go here?

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It's already one of the most hated games period, and has some of the lowest reviews ever. It's pretty much the only reason why those ports are known at all. Busybody64 (talk) 21:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given those are ports from the flash version of the game, I do not think they qualify, no reasonable journalist expected them to be good. Its a notoriously bad game, but not one that has had any major impact on the industry. Masem (t) 21:19, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As above, these are pretty handily considered shovelware, and not so infamously bad they become notable by virtue of the reception they had. VRXCES (talk) 22:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is a well known bad game, but there are far too few reviews for it. And unlike something like Crash Boom Bang that got a well known and beloved IP behind it (and still got too few reviews for this list) Elf Bowling got nothing. Also it is notorious but far less hated than Superman 64 and Big Rigs.
Mega Man DOS belongs here far more than Elf Bowling. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 19:37, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just checked and there are only 4 reviews on Metacritic. So based on that it gets a fail from me as well. Those two above are very harsh with passing games, but there are far too little reviews for those two game for me to give it a pass. To compare Final Fantasy All the Bravest got 14 reviews and have the insanely huge Final Fantasy IP behind it.
https://www.metacritic.com/game/elf-bowling-1-and-2/critic-reviews/?platform=ds 80.198.18.220 (talk) 19:42, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Diablo 3 and Sim City

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I said before that the overall 64 procent Metacritic review score is far too positive for Sim City to be on the list. The list dont talk about the actual game, but the bad launch in what was an online only game. So i got two arguments

1. Sim City should be removed from the list as the reviews are far too positive for this list to begin with. Same reason why Redfall, Wrath of Cortex and Pokemon Violet are not on this list. Those games are not bad enough with over 50 procent Metacritic

2. Sim City should stay on this list and Diablo 3 should also be added for the exact same reasons (and the RMAH as well) Error 37 and to a lesser extent Error 1 was a huge meme when Diablo 3 launched. Like Sim City there was a massive problem with the online servers when Diablo 3 launched

Whatever argument you believe is right i dont know. I learn into the first myself, a game only known for the bad launch and was otherwise meh dont belong imo. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 18:24, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Any comment? I have similar issue with Simcity as VRXCES have with Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero. It is not terrible enough, too high Metacritic scores, the game is not notable to be bad outside of the bad launch, just a meh game like Wrath of Cortex or Pokemon Violet. The bad launch is notable, but the actual game is not notable for negative reception. And the bad launch is not as notable as the Diablo 3 launch. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:6B5F:5BFD:F0F1:FF93 (talk) 19:42, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How should 'troll games' be handled?

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The specific example that comes to mind is Takeshi's Challenge for the Famicom. The game is fairly universally panned both domestically and foreign as a poorly constructed game. Yet the creative force behind the game has stated it was an intentionally obtuse experience.

I'm curious as to if creator intent to make a 'bad' game is worth reflecting or if perhaps there's an opportunity for a separate list discussing these types of games. AnthonyAJumelles (talk) 20:30, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

if they're notable for their negative reception, i think they have a place here consarn (speak evil) (see evil) 20:39, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Case by case basis against the guidelines. Needs sustained coverage of negative reception (game is notable for receiving bad coverage) as opposed to infamy (everyone knows the game is bad). Takeshi's Challenge is probably more eligible than most kusoge, but the sourcing is not there: I see only a Famitsu review in the article. But I'd agree that the quality issue as experienced by players is something worth adding: if there is much more sourcing about its 'worst game' status.
On top of that, kusoge seem to attract the shovelware rule, which is that most games that are expected to be bad do not attract notability. Hong Kong 97 may be a good example of a game that is exceptional enough for inclusion given the sourcing in the article. But are sources attracted to the game for its poor quality or its controversial and provocative content? This is a grey area better mediated under List of controversial video games where possible.
Here's my own personal thought: intentionally bad games such as kusoge should be added to the shovelware rule barring anything but exceptional cases of clear coverage (i.e. if we can find widespread coverage of Takeshi's Challenge). This is because (1) it operates similarly to shovelware, being that the author and reviewer do not have a reasonable expectation of quality, making it easier to call the game awful without being particularly notable, and (2) provocative games already have a place under List of controversial video games. VRXCES (talk) 21:46, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Which is why I think a solution here is to add general sections that cover things like kusoge, shovelware, mobile games, etc, in the context these are generally perceived with negative reception. Masem (t) 22:19, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Could be a good compromise: a general list for self-evidently notable games, and a category sublist supported by a little context on what generally makes games in the category notable for negative reception as a whole. VRXCES (talk) 22:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If there's support for that, happy to help draft! VRXCES (talk) 22:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest starting a draft for kosage games to include here as a start and let's see where it goes. I'd aim for 2 or 3 paragraphs at most, highlighting only those games that are illustrating kosage from RSes. Whether Takahahi's challenge counts I don't know. — Masem (t) 00:32, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Takahahi's challenge and Hoshi Wo Miru Hito are two that i think deserves a spot. But there are far more sources on Japanese sites and that can be hard as someone who dont understand Japanese. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:BB93:B391:331E:8893 (talk) 06:53, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Bokosuka Wars is also rather infamous, but dont know if it is notable for this list. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:B235:E91:C2F8:3258 (talk) 12:12, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Name Change

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Should the title of this article be changed to "List of video games considered the worst"? Stein256 (talk) 21:49, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, that's a completely different thing. That list implies that only games with the lowest critics' scores would be included, many which are forgotten quickly. This list includes games that are known to have a long lastest recognition for their negative reception though that doesn't always equate to low critics scores. Masem (t) 22:13, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, rather than collating mentions of "worst games ever" which tend to be not particularly reliable or consistent in games media, "notable for negative reception" carries a higher standard of games that have reliable and broad coverage about their bad-ness. VRXCES (talk) 00:58, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's the name it had a long time ago, and was changed because it wasn't actual specific focus on the article. A lot of the games on here aren't considered 'the worst', just are (as the article's title implies) are known for getting bad press. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 05:51, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Çiftlik Bank

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I don't know if it belongs here or in the controversial games list (or if it even count as a game) but basically it was a giant Ponzi scheme that looked like a Farmville styled game where you could invest real money into farms in Turkey. It was insanely huge in Turkey but it did only exist in Turkey. https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-43430363 one of the few articles about this in English. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:6962:9278:64EB:49BF (talk) 17:26, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds better suited on the controversial game list. — Masem (t) 17:35, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That was what i through as well. It is very notable for how big it was, the huge media coverage in Turkey (and if you Google Farm Bank scam or Farm Bank Jail you get a lot of sources, some in english as well) But it fits controversial games far more IMO, because the actual game is not known for negative reception, but the ponzi scam is. But it is notable, there are zero doubt about that. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:6B5F:5BFD:F0F1:FF93 (talk) 19:16, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
https://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Mehmet_Ayd%C4%B1n_(born_1991) is an article that is also about the game. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:6B5F:5BFD:F0F1:FF93 (talk) 19:23, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]