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Hoshi wo Miru Hito again

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I asked for it before but nobody expect for one person answered it. This is a game known as being a legendary shitty game and is rather infamous in Japan. It got two fan remakes and a rerelase 33 years later, this would not have happened if nobody cared about the game

https://www.readonlymemo.com/hoshi-wo-miru-hito-english-translation-interview/ https://www.destructoid.com/hoshi-wo-miru-hito-on-famicom-is-the-ruthless-king-of-crap-mountain/ https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/05/33_years_later_japanese_famicom_rpg_hoshi_wo_miru_hito_is_being_rereleased_on_switch http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/hoshi-wo-miru-hito/ 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:D12A:75:4279:99D6 (talk) 11:41, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even Wikipedia says the following
Reviewers noted the often confusing and highly difficult gameplay. Japanese gamers have dubbed it "Densetsu no Kusoge" (伝説のクソゲー, lit. '"Legendary Crappy Game'). 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:D12A:75:4279:99D6 (talk) 11:42, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As a question, how does this game fit the inclusion criteria? --Super Goku V (talk) 10:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Its quality having been acknowledged in relevant retrospectives and columns by reliable sources (i.e. being literally referred to as one of the "worst games ever" (either of all-time or within a specific category or genre).
Surely this meets this one? 80.198.18.220 (talk) 20:17, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not immediately saying this game can't be on this list, but the sourcing is not also great, that I've seen. It makes sense to include what's become known as the prime example of the kusoge aspect, but I would really want more quality sources towards that. Masem (t) 13:29, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have you checked the sources for the game name in JP?
星をみるひと,
and (伝説のクソゲー plus 星をみるひと together? 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:24F4:4A63:8057:1C4F (talk) 13:43, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Mortal Kombat games

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TL;DR proposing to remove Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero.

On a narrow and fairly exclusive list, it's a surprise there's three Mortal Kombat games in five years in the list. Clearly reviewers didn't think these games were very good during this era of the franchise and it was not a good time for all involved. Does that make them eligible for an article about games notable for negative reception? Or is that a bit excessive? Let's look at the articles against the inclusion criteria:

Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero

  • Poor reviews? ☒N GameRankings scores are borderline: 53% (PS) and 45% (N64) both only from 5 reviews. The article cites praise for the PS version and 50%+ reviews, including reliable ones from EGM and GameSpot. I'd say that's quite a stretch to include this one unless there's a good reason. Unfortunately, as seen below...
  • Considered one of the worst of all time? ☒N No source provided calls the game the worst of all-time, although there is a few good sources for poor retrospective reception. Closest is an article about how it's one of the worst Mortal Kombat games of all time and another for it having one of the worst cutscenes. I'd say it clearly falls short.
  • Franchise impact? Question? IGN discusses that Midway did cancel a planned series with the concept, but the article also notes that it was "successful enough" and sold a million copies in spite of its poor reception, so it's not really supporting any inference that this game alone turned any fortunes in the franchise, only that one can infer that it started a downward trend in quality.

Mortal Kombat: Special Forces

  • Poor reviews? checkY Metacritic cites 7 reviews averaging 28%, and there's ten reviews all under 50%. Pretty cut and dry that this received terrible reviews.
  • Considered one of the worst of all time? Question? Yes, only by one GamesRadar+ all-time list in 2013. Otherwise not corroborated. The GameFront and other GamesRadar+ article are about its series performance.
  • Franchise impact? checkY Sort of but poorly cited. The sources illustrate it had a troubled development, poor feedback at E3, cut ports, and staff exits. There are unsourced statements that the game was rushed and that Midway put the series on hold for a while due to the poor performance of the game. That seems dubious as Deadly Alliance was already under development and came out two years later, closer than the 1997 release of Mythologies.

Mortal Kombat Advance

  • Poor reviews? checkY Metacritic average of 33% for 16 reviews. Pretty clear consensus.
  • Considered one of the worst of all time? checkY Yes, worst for the GBA by GameSpot and TheGamer, and worst of all-time by GamesRadar+. Easy three strikes, so no need to focus on other citations calling it one of the worst Mortal Kombat games.
  • Franchise impact? ☒N No real commentary on that. Virtucraft seems like they made GBA shovelware and this didn't stop them. The Retro Gamer commentary isn't adding any analysis when examining the original article, just calling it "utter garbage" compared to competitors.

ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 07:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If MKAdvance is known to be shovelware, rather than a wholesome attempt at a GBA port, that's likely not reason to include it, as shovelware, by default is assumed to be bad. Special Forces may have reasons to be on here but you absolutely need strong sourcing on the last point about the series being put on hold due to it. Masem (t) 13:16, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's the gist - there's not strong sourcing for why these games are meant to be the worst of all time other than the few citations otherwise stated. I think it's definitely come from the context of being well-documented that these were bad Mortal Kombat games, but somewhere the wires got crossed as far as whether they are notoriously bad games in their own right in the same way Big Rigs or Gollum is. Plenty of bad games dash the hopes of publishers to follow up a direct sequel. Midway followed it up with another spinoff in a few years anuway. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 06:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is my paraphrase of the inclusion criteria. Ss0jse (talk) 18:07, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks - let me know if the above analysis was inconsistent. Could consider rewording the Talk page instructions as your paraphrasing does a better job of clearly setting the test involved. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 03:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That summary is not consistent with the criteria on this page. Importantly, just having a low score is not sufficient to be included on this list. Masem (t) 05:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, yes, was a prompt for a discussion for readability, not suggesting actually replacing X with Y. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 08:41, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

007 Legends

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A lot of under 50% reviews https://www.metacritic.com/game/007-legends/critic-reviews/?platform=xbox-360 and the IP Shovelware argument dont apply here because James Bond is known for having a lot of good and great games (GoldenEye is on the games considered the best list) 007 Legends legacy is known as the last Bond game in a decade and it was a good reason why Eurocom dont exist anymore. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:24F4:4A63:8057:1C4F (talk) 15:31, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This looks like fair game based on the details at the game article. Will look to add this later. — Masem (t) 15:39, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that it killed a studio and a lot of sub 50 reviews means it meets two critias. This game also killed the Bond video games for a decade (not sure if it was the quality of the game or the fact that nobody wanted to make a new Bond game after 007 Legends, but the fact of the matter is that Bond games dont exist after 007 Legends even if one is worked on now) You might say that this is an IP game, but people actually expect a way better game from a Bond game as Bond games after GoldenEye have good reviews. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:24F4:4A63:8057:1C4F (talk) 16:02, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I say Approved. Ss0jse (talk) 19:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Who will look to add this game later? Ss0jse (talk) 19:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should Devil May Cry 2 be added?

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It is a game from a popular IP that have got an insane number of negative reception online. But the problem is that it do have over 50% in the reviews, but it is not exactly hard to find negative reception online for this game. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:6943:B067:1C00:3E45 (talk) 18:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any indicatation that's it's a notable poor game, just a low point in the DMC series but still successful. Not the type of game for this list — Masem (t) 18:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dragon Ball GT: Final Bout

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This game passes the first critia Having low review scores; a game with an aggregate review score below 50/100, as determined by at least 10 critic reviews is generally considered eligible but not guaranteed a spot on the list.

https://www.mobygames.com/game/3626/dragon-ball-gt-final-bout/reviews/

It was the first Dragon Ball game in NA. I dont know if this acticle meets WP:RS but if it does thats the legacy of this game. https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018/01/feature_dragon_ball_final_bout_-_the_worst_fighting_game_with_the_best_opening_movie 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:6943:B067:1C00:3E45 (talk) 18:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not really seeing this having aong tail to be known for being a bad game, coupled with being a tie in game which are generally discounted as being shovel ware. — Masem (t) 19:00, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dragon Ball have so many games and a lot of them are good or even great. FighterZ is known to be amazing.
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Dragon_Ball_FighterZ#Reception 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:6943:B067:1C00:3E45 (talk) 19:17, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.mobygames.com/game/3626/dragon-ball-gt-final-bout/reviews/
11 out of the 13 reviews are under 50%
Having low review scores; a game with an aggregate review score below 50/100, as determined by at least 10 critic reviews is generally considered eligible but not guaranteed a spot on the list.
And the counter argument to this being an IP game is that Dragon Ball was insanely huge (still very huge) in NA at the time. And unless you count the weird Dragon Power NES game, this was the first DB game for NA.
Maybe combine this with Ultimate Battle 22 a similar game that got very negative reviews. https://www.metacritic.com/game/dragon-ball-z-ultimate-battle-22/critic-reviews/?platform=playstation
Not that the prequel to Ultimate Battle 22 got very positive reviews http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Z:_Super_But%C5%8Dden 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:6943:B067:1C00:3E45 (talk) 19:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep on mind we are not just looking at the Metacrituc score, there needs to be some significant legacy or impact related to the game having a negative reception. Best I can from these, they are just considered low points in the DBZ series, but had no impact if how the series continued or it's developers. — Masem (t) 19:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the use of "it's" as the possessive form of "it" hurts me on a spiritual level. that aside, from some quick looking, it seems this is only another speck in the pile of bad dragon ball games, so... meh. it's at worst sloshing around with crash bash and sister location in the "this game exists, right?" limbo cogsan (nag me) (stalk me) 20:46, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is a lot closer to Crash Boom Bang in quality than Crash Bash. I am surprised that game is also not on the list, but i guess too few people cared to review it or something? 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:743A:F9E5:87F2:9A3 (talk) 09:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
yes, but in terms of reception, as opposed to actual quality cogsan (nag me) (stalk me) 12:31, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are bootlegs notable?

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There are nothing about bootlegs above so i wonder if bootlegs are notable or not. Games i am thinking about are stuff like the Telefang bootlegs like Pokemon Diamond and Jade and stuff like 7 Grand Dad. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:743A:F9E5:87F2:9A3 (talk) 09:20, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

nothing says they can't be covered enough to warrant articles or entries in other articles, but they're generally not. 7 gram dab is the closest to an exception, but even then, its popularity begins and ends at vinesauce and siivagunner, which aren't really that widely covered in the first place
diamond and jade have absolutely no chance though, not even the coincidence with the actual pokémon diamond can save them from the "jontron mentioned it once and that's it" limbo cogsan (nag me) (stalk me) 12:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think Jade and Diamond (i consider them one game) are one of the most wellknown bootlegs released. There are actually quiet a few articles on those games. But while not too little to be added in the Telefang article, it seems to be too little for this list
https://www.thegamer.com/pokemon-diamond-jade-bootleg-games/
https://kotaku.com/actually-piracy-can-be-pretty-hilarious-5011696
I cant verify this info, but i believe the bootlegs are the main reasons why Telefang is not totally unknown outside Japan to begin with.
There is also Somari, this game have its own Wikipedia article but i dont know if it meets this list. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:743A:F9E5:87F2:9A3 (talk) 13:31, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keyword on this list is "notable", we don't want very obscure games, which I think bootlegs immediately fall under. Also, that would likely fall under why we don't include indie games, because bootleg developers are typically not professionals, and thus there's no expectation of a quality product. Masem (t) 13:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A few of them do have Wikipedia articles, so they at least meets the Wikipedia Notablity guideline. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:743A:F9E5:87F2:9A3 (talk) 14:34, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
even then, to warrant a spot here, they'd have to be widely known specifically for that negative reception. somari is non-functional garbage, but it's not known for that. it's known for the fact that it was sonic things and mario things slapped together on the famicom. even with the coverage it has, it would probably fail the sigcov-related criteria for inclusion here cogsan (nag me) (stalk me) 16:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just want to concur with the very well-put point above: this article is for things known for their bad reception - not any perceived bad-ness. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 02:29, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Evony

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This is a game with a lot of negative reception from several places. Does it deserve a place here? http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Evony 80.198.18.220 (talk) 09:11, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To list Cogsan argument above. Evony is mostly known for that negative reception. So that part is covered i think. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 09:13, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We specifically ignore mobile games, as the bulk of these are known to be bad. Masem (t) 12:45, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is a browser game. The mobile game is a sequel to the browser game. The negative reviews and what Evony is known for is the browser game. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 14:29, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To add to that. Evony Age 1 is a browser game. Evony Age 2 is a standalone sequel to Age 1, that game is also a browser game. Evony The Kings Return is a mobile game released many years after Age 1 and 2 and is the 3rd Evony game released. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 14:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Evony was called "the world's most despised game" by The Guardian. That actually helps a lot with the reason why i want it to be added to begin with. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 14:33, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Forgot citation https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2009/jul/15/games-evony-spam-internet
This makes Evony a game that is notable for negative reception in my opinion. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 14:34, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Evony definitely has a certain notoriety but its still a mobile game. Further, while its reputation is around how spammy its ads are and use of sexual attraction to draw users, that doesn't necessarily mean its a "bad game" as we'd normally associate with that term. Masem (t) 15:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Age 1 and 2 is a browser game. The Mobile game came out far later. The pay2win elements and the lawsuits are also notable.
I checked if it was on this list and it should at the very least be on that list http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/List_of_controversial_video_games 80.198.18.220 (talk) 15:27, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Forgot to add the plagarism is also notable by itself. As well as Ucool history (the devs of Evony) that is cited in the Evony article. The Wikipedia article for Evony is even in the obscenity controversies on the buttom. There are to me no doubt that it should be in the controversial games list. I am not sure about this list, but in the littial sense Evony is a video game notable for negative reception. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 15:59, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should there be a list for video game consoles notable for negative reception?

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I think there are enough content for such a list. You can list stuff like the Virtual Boy, N-gage, R-Zone and maybe even the Xbox 360. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:6DB8:F5CB:FC2F:A469 (talk) 18:06, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, those that are notable for bad reception match those that were commercial failures. While the Xbox 360 had a host of problems, it certainly wasn't known for being a bad cpnsole — Masem (t) 18:21, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The actual console itself is mostly known for stuff like the RRoD. I am not talking about the games like Halo/Gears but the actual console. The RRoD is the most wellknown tecnical issue for any console to this day
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:7501:D61E:B23:D8E (talk) 01:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Having well known technical issues doesn't make it a negatively-reviewed console. Xbox 360 still was known as a great console overall by critics. --Masem (t) 02:13, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An idea to handle categories of games

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If we add a section to discuss broad catagories of games typically associate with negative reception, this is a means of addressing known classes of bad games, which would include mobile games (like Evony), kasoge, shovelware, among others. — Masem (t) 20:29, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy All the Bravest

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On one hand this is a mobile game, on the other hand it is a game that carries the beloved Final Fantasy name and this person who have created many beloved FF games was creative producer for FFATB http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Tetsuya_Nomura So because of this, some expections of quality was expected with this game. It got to a 44 place in worst games ever here and was very panned by reviewers http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Final_Fantasy_All_the_Bravest#Reception 80.198.18.220 (talk) 12:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's no long term recognition of this being a bad game. just having a low score is not sufficient to be on this list. Masem (t) 12:39, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Say that to stuff that is far lesser known like Power Gig: Rise of the SixString 80.198.18.220 (talk) 15:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can add Fighter Within (2013) as well. Who have even heard about this one? In terms of bad games people have heard about, i would strongly argue FFATB is far more known than both those two games combined. My biggest problem with this list is how you are very harsh with adding new games, while there are several games on this list that are far lesser known with also no legacy than the games i listed. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 15:51, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See the criteria at the top. Simply having bad scores and also being well-known is not sufficient to be included. Masem (t) 16:05, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think Power Gig: Rise of the SixString and Fighter Within (2013) meets this criteria. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 16:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thats my real issue with this list. A good half of the games dont meet this criteria to begin with. The worst offender to me is Simpsons Wrestling being notable but for some reason Skateboarding dont? What makes Wrestling more notable than Skateboarding? 80.198.18.220 (talk) 16:34, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No legacy is also wrong. From the Wikipedia article of ATB
GamesRadar+ ranked it as the 44th worst game ever made. The staff accused its developers of cashing in on the Final Fantasy brand.[30] USgamer cited the game as being the most notable misstep Square Enix had done since CEO Yosuke Matsuda took over,[31] but also noted that the project had begun under the previous CEO, Yoichi Wada.[31] 80.198.18.220 (talk) 17:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are lots and lots and lots and lots of negatively reviewed games. We cannot include them all, so we're looking at the legacy of being a bad game to distinguish from just being negatively reviewed. Mobile games are nearly always ignored in such cases because they're designed to be money-grabs. Masem (t) 18:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Final Fantasy Dimensions released before ATB also for mobile got positive reviews. https://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Dimensions
This clearly put some expections of quality for FFATB
And you cant compared random mobile games that dont meet Wikipedias Notablity guideline and have no professional reviews with something like Final Fantasy. And as i said before there actually is some legacy in ATB 80.198.18.220 (talk) 19:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thing is, mobile games just don't get many reviews to start. 19 reviews on Metacritic, most from blogs and not from the usual reliable sources, is typical for a mobile game, and shows that there's not a large consensus among the gaming industry to be significantly known as a bad game. Maybe within fans of FF that it stands out, but we'd need more than that for inclusion here. We've had to cut back on this list twice now due to additions of games that really don't have that enduring aspect of being known as a bad game. Masem (t) 19:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This dont quality?
GamesRadar+ ranked it as the 44th worst game ever made. The staff accused its developers of cashing in on the Final Fantasy brand.[30] USgamer cited the game as being the most notable misstep Square Enix had done since CEO Yosuke Matsuda took over,[31] but also noted that the project had begun under the previous CEO, Yoichi Wada.[31]
On a side note 19 reviews are actually more than some of the games on this list. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 06:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aquaman: Battle for Atlantis and Superman The Man of Steel

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One person listed this game above. With a metacritic of 26 based on 14 reviews this is a no brainer to include. https://www.metacritic.com/game/aquaman-battle-for-atlantis/


This game is at least as notable as Batman: Dark Tomorrow and had some of the same people working on that game and Superman The Man of Steel (based on a Rerez video that itself is likely not notable according to Wikipedia, but that person used the game credits to compare) Superman The Man of Steel have slightly better reviews, but they are still under 50 procent. That trio of games should all be listed, not just the Batman game. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 17:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As a mediocre licensed tie-in, it needs more evidence. Aquaman was placed on the list in the 00s due to the strident views of X-Play, who trashed the game hard. But no one else seems to have been calling it the worst game of all time, and retrospective coverage hasn't maintained interest in it in the same way Superman 64 continued to receive sustained negative coverage. Is there other sourcing out there for the game's bad reception making waves beyond the reviews? ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 06:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some Googling found this source. Does it meet RS?
https://www.si.com/videogames/features/worst-nintendo-gamecube-games 80.198.18.220 (talk) 08:55, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Found one more here. Ranked 2 just behind the infamous Superman 64 https://www.watchmojo.com/articles/top-10-worst-superhero-video-games/aquaman-battle-for-atlantis-2003 80.198.18.220 (talk) 09:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Those are what we call "listicle" articles and generally we ignore them, they're not really establishing why a game is known to be a bad game. Masem (t) 13:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both sources dont meet RS? 80.198.18.220 (talk) 14:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WatchMojo would not normally be a reliable source. Sports Illustrated overall can be, but that article is a listicle - a list with brief entries without really any expanded coverage - and the type we typically ignore, as they tend to be written for clickbait rather than serious journalism. Masem (t) 14:54, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does Battlefront 2 really belong in this list?

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It clearly belong on this one no doubt http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/List_of_controversial_video_games#2020s

But it dont belong on this one. This game can be compared to Diablo Immortal as only the cash shop was panned. The actual game got positive reviews. There was some controversial stuff with the lootboxes, but like Diablo Immortal that is listed on that list and not this one, the actual game got over 50%. And like Diablo Immortal, BF2 is not a game known to be bad, only the lootboxes are known to be bad. Just like how games like Redfall is not listed here, this game is not bad enough for this list. To my undestanding this list is about the quality of the games, not the controversial stuff. https://www.metacritic.com/game/star-wars-battlefront-ii/ 80.198.18.220 (talk) 12:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redfall is more a commercial failure (and had the impact of bringing down Arkane Austin). SW BF2 is still known a bad game from the start due to its implementation of loot boxes. Controversial games should be left to ones where the controversy is from outside the video game sector (eg gov't issues, etc.) Masem (t) 14:58, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So Diablo Immortal should also be on this list? BF2 is got a 68 metacritic score, so it is clearly not known as a bad game. To compare SS KTJL got a 60 and Redfall a 56 and those reviews are too high for this list. Redfall also killed a studio so it have more legacy as a game that way. BF2 is known as a good game with bad lootboxes when it launched, but the actual game is known to be good. Kinda like Diablo Immortal that got positive reviews but the pay2win got criticism. You think Diablo Immortal also belong on this list? 80.198.18.220 (talk) 17:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just want to add to that above that CSGO/CS2 is on the list for controversial games for the loot boxes (and matchfixing in esports) but we can both agree it dont belong on this list. So i also dont believe that BF2 belongs here based on this, as BF2 is not known to be a bad game. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 19:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some more candidates

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Concord (video game), Redfall should both be added. 193.124.150.136 (talk) 00:20, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Concord was a commercial failure, it didn't stay out there long enough to gain significant reviews. And we're still holding out on Redfall as it wasn't that poorly reviewed. Masem (t) 00:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daikatana

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The main reason I even know about Daikatana is Yahtzee Croshaw's video on it. Is it notable enough for this list? I mean, I began to add section for the game to this list, but I changed my mind. Ss0jse (talk) 01:55, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add a section. Sorry. Ss0jse (talk) 02:50, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Its a commercial failure, and listed there. Masem (t) 02:52, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Ss0jse (talk) 13:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dynamic list?

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Is List of video games notable for negative reception a {{Dynamic list}}? If so, we should probably add this header template:

This is a dynamic list and may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness. You can help by adding missing items with reliable sources.

Ss0jse (talk) 19:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IMO, dynamic list is an inappropriate hatnote when a strict list criteria is in place. It's not appropriate to invite people to simply add to it. -- ferret (talk) 20:27, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We also already say it's an incomplete list in the lede. Masem (t) 21:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Ss0jse (talk) 02:12, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pokémon Scarlet & Violet And Spyro: Enter The Dragonfly

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I decided to bring these two games up again like I did a while back as candidates. I also realize it was a mistake on my part to lump them in with Sword & Shield and Wrath Of Cortex before, because they are both far better in quality objectively than Scarlet & Violet and Enter The Dragonfly.

Both Scarlet & Violet and Enter The Dragonfly are technical disasters. Spyro in particular was so bad it caused a Japanese child to die from a seizure from the glitches in the game.

Nintendo offered buyers of Scarlet & Violet mass refunds. This is just my opinion too but I believe Scarlet & Violet was so bad it’s the main reason we haven’t seen another mainline Pokemon game entry in a while, and considering Game Freak pumps out Pokémon games like crazy annually since the 2010s that’s really saying something.

Spyro Enter The Dragonfly was so bad it caused the shutdown of Check Six Studio after it released, and I believe Eurocom Entertainment Software worked on A Hero’s Tail instead of Equinoxe Digital Entertainment because of how badly Enter The Dragonfly turned out. 2600:6C56:6C00:39B9:D5DA:FBAB:7317:CDB0 (talk) 14:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

enter the dragonfly is a maybe. its "debatable stability" is certainly notable for its standards... but the game itself might not be notable enough for this list. then again, the guy game is also here, so don't quote me on this one
scarlet and violet are absolutely not getting here. despite how much the games hate when people have functional necks for too long, their reception was still mixed at worst, but even then, the pokémon not named munkidori and the music have had pretty positive reception
also the wrath of cortex isn't that bad. i mean, it's bad and does dingodile dirty, but it's not material for this list cogsan (nag me) (stalk me) 16:15, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bringing up the same games repeatedly without new evidence is unlikely to change the status quo. -- ferret (talk) 17:05, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Besides what others have said, I think we're due to audit this list and remove games that clearly lack lasting recognizition by reliable sources as being negative. — Masem (t) 19:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to help with that. A potential approach to that is how I went about examining the Mortal Kombat games in the section above. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 20:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm the usual ScVi guy, the OP isn't me. I normally wouldn't intrude in these but the replies made it seem like you were talking to him like he's brought it up before. Cider621 (talk) 22:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's because the IP's very first sentence is literally bring these two games up again like I did a while back. -- ferret (talk) 22:35, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even me that thinks more games should be added dont think Scarlet and Violet belongs. The quality is simple not bad enough for this list. I do think Enter the Dragonfly belongs as well as Sonic Genesis GBA port and the shitfest that is Crash Boom Bang. Those two games are far worse in quality and are well known as well. 80.198.18.220 (talk) 21:10, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mega Man DOS (1990 video game)

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That article references this one, even if this game is not on the list. Based both on the reception part on Wikipedia and gameplay i watched i do think it belong. Based on weird aspects like impact, websites that i assume meets RS call it the worst mainline Mega Man game and there are some expections of quality being a Mega Man game after all.

https://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Mega_Man_(1990_video_game) 80.198.18.220 (talk) 20:51, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can i get a single answer? Like just one? 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:49C0:1B73:7C29:87FE (talk) 20:49, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this title represents an interesting issue. There's a lot of sourcing in the article putting it on lists of worst PC games/ports... but they're all 20+ years after the game released. Not a single actual contemporary source exists in the article's reception section. So we pass bullet #2 of the list criteria, but have no evidence for any of the other criteria. -- ferret (talk) 00:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to double-check why the following games should be excluded from this list

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(This list has been copied from User:Ss0jse/Games not notable for negative reception#List.)

Ss0jse (talk) 00:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

some of them are already on the commercial failures list like Anthem and SS. Others like Raid are mobile or indie games that we exclude on purpose Otherwise, these all are just low scoring games but with no indication of long-term renown for being a bad game outside of small circles. See the top of this page for why we look for more than just the scores. --Masem (t) 01:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Though we look for more than just score, a large number of these don't even meet the most basic criteria of a <50 Metacritic score. Mario Party 9 has a 73.... Mario Party 10 a 66. You have some series listed here, which we don't include, but which have games scored in the 80s. It's hard to address your list when you are applying your own independent interpretation of the LISTCRIT to construct it. The burden is going to be on you to explain why any of these game pass the LISTCRIT. -- ferret (talk) 01:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean, "LISTCRIT"? List of commercial failures in video games? Ss0jse (talk) 14:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's about 50 items here. Are you seeking feedback on each individual one or understanding why as a cohort these types of games have been excluded? If the former, it's much better to discuss against your own views on the criteria. If the latter, most of these look like there is some criteria or other relating to review scores, impact, and so on that don't make them a good fit. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 01:31, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I actually think Devil's Third do fit because there was a lot of hype for it and the reviews are negative. But that is just one game on the list. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:64F9:38F1:E8A6:DF75 (talk) 06:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RAID belongs way less than FFATB. FFATB actually have a lot of reviews on Metacritic and had the FF name behind it. RSL got nothing really. Evony is also a way better contender for this list than RSL. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:64F9:38F1:E8A6:DF75 (talk) 06:12, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other M got a 79/100 Metacritic. It is a flawed game, but it might be one of the suggested games that belong here the least. 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:64F9:38F1:E8A6:DF75 (talk) 06:14, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Does Raid even particularly have negative reception? People hate it because of the marketing, not the game itself. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's the bulk of the problem with the list above. There are games that are disliked by gamers for reasons or another, like Raid's aggressive marketing, but that does not directly tie into being a game notable for negative reception, which generally has to start with critical reviews from journalists. Masem (t) 13:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Individual feedback, please. See also the non-first-level bullet points in User:Ss0jse/Games not notable for negative reception#List. Ss0jse (talk) 14:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ss0jse I think we should close this entire discussion, to be honest. You're operating from your own separate interpretation of the LISTCRIT (That's the list criteria at the top of this talk page, which I thought you understood), at User:Ss0jse/Criteria_for_notably_negatively_received_games#List_of_criteria. When someone wants to ask if a game should be on this list, there is a burden on you, the requestor, to make a case for inclusion. Asking the editorship at large to evaluate a list of some 80+ games is a waste of time in a vacuum. -- ferret (talk) 14:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to close this discussion, @Ferret. Ss0jse (talk) 15:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That said, thanks for putting the list together as a step towards considering what games may be worth taking a look at, even if this approach didn't quite yield the intended outcome. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 21:14, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most of these I added because one or a few critics disliked/hated them. Ss0jse (talk) 14:34, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, one to three critics usually. Ss0jse (talk) 14:38, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If only a couple critics disliked them but the rest are positive, that's not suitable for here. The critical reviews need to start with most critics having negative reviews. Masem (t) 14:48, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Devil's Third

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In the huge list above that have way too many games, that even i that suggested a lot of games on this talk page dont thinks belong. This is one of those games that i think belongs

The game was placed on Polygon's "Worst Video Games of 2015" list.[36] Similarly, it was also placed on GameSpot's "Worst Reviewed Games of 2015" list. Devil's Third


This is not an unknown game, several sources call it bad, there was a reasonable expection of quality and hype behind this game and finally it have under 50 procent on Metacritic. I think it belongs 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:3849:8F13:AF28:7F87 (talk) 16:02, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Simply being on a worse fame if a year list isn't sufficient as that doesn't give any indication of long term notability of being a bad game — Masem (t) 16:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Masem Score wise, it passes. The JP reception being positive seems to be sourced entirely to Famitsu without any other reviewers or reception noted, so I think that's a red herring. Industry wise, I wouldn't say it had an impact, but, Valhalla ultimately never did anything else and was bought out and merged. -- ferret (talk) 16:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The studio behind DT have some really well known people behind it
The studio is run by former Tecmo staff: Satoshi Kanematsu, who worked on Monster Rancher and Rygar, and Tomonobu Itagaki, a game designer known for his work on the Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden series.
It also sold badly and the studio got shut down and merged into a different one. But based on the people behind the studio and the long dev time (not a fast cash grab like those IP titles with a fast dev time) This means some expection of quality was expected of DT. Nintendo also published this game and was expected to be a big mature game for the WiiU 2A13:8A02:11F3:F700:3849:8F13:AF28:7F87 (talk) 16:31, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should elf bowling 1 + 2 (GBA and DS) go here?

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It's already one of the most hated games period, and has some of the lowest reviews ever. It's pretty much the only reason why those ports are known at all. Busybody64 (talk) 21:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given those are ports from the flash version of the game, I do not think they qualify, no reasonable journalist expected them to be good. Its a notoriously bad game, but not one that has had any major impact on the industry. Masem (t) 21:19, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As above, these are pretty handily considered shovelware, and not so infamously bad they become notable by virtue of the reception they had. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 22:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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