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I would like Shadowwarrior8 to verify my claims, which he says are in the book.
Not referring to anything else, the BOOK.
Second:
By what right were the 2 documents I posted deleted when I even posted the pictures from the book? On what basis does that count as unreliable? Szolnok95 (talk) 16:56, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Those two pictures are nothing but your self-published works. Images uploaded to commons are not sources in wikipedia. And who even is Richard Rein and what had he got to do with the Nazi Party ideologues?
Next time before you delete something just like that.....read on it.....and I see you haven't read Untermensch, nor Richard Rein's book.
Furthermore, But even if you were to ask "What did Rein have to do with Nazi ideology?"
Then I POSTED a chapter from the NSDAP organization book which supports the same thing that Rein wrote.
I'm sorry, but this is quite outrageous. I have to justify myself all the time, but the people who delete and retract things don't even know what they are doing. I'm not questioning your wikipedia expertise, I'm questioning your history.
I might add, it's ironic that things from the Untermensch book that aren't even in it are being returned, BUT they are being returned. While images and page number references from other books are posted as unreliable. Szolnok95 (talk) 17:20, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"remove academic sources containing the explicit statements of Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Rosenburg, etc. outlining the racial ideology of NSDAP in their books,"
What is "academic", and "reliable" source?
The average historian knows that Hitler's table-talk is questionable. Because the basis is that someone heard something, someone wrote it down, and then someone translated it. An unreliable source.
Just because something is an academic and reliable source, doesn't mean you should be able to claim things about the contents of a book that aren't in that book. In simple language, this is called lying.
Furthermore: the Untermensch book NEVER mentions that the Eastern Europeans are inferior people, or anywhere mention them negatively. You, on the other hand, leave these disguises up on the page.
Isn't that ridiculous?
Or isn't it ridiculous that XY writes in his book that, according to him, Hitler and Goebbels spoke of the inferior Europeans as rabbits, and offers no evidence for this?
I hope you know that at court such falsehoods are taken for nothing!
And you continue to stand up for them, even though I have asked you countless times to EXPLAIN why what I have deleted should NOT be deleted. I have written the reason for each deletion. I am waiting for it in the middle of writing this comment.
What is "academic", and "reliable" source? - Did you even bother to read the Wiki policies they linked? Here, let me try again: WP:SCHOLARSHIP, WP:RELIABLE, and WP:SECONDARY.Just because something is an academic and reliable source, doesn't mean you should be able to claim things - In Wikipedia, we can WP:5P. That's how this website works. If you don't like it, you are not compelled to edit WP:NOTCOMPULSORY. --WikiLinuz (talk) 18:22, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, if 1 book says there is anti-slavic things in the Untermensch book, but it isn't true, you will decide this is true?
Hitler's Table Talk book is regarded as authentically attributed to Hitler by almost all historians (although aspects of its translations & contents have been exposed to scrutiny). Nevertheless, nothing specific about the Table Talk was mentioned in my comments. I only stated that properly sourced contents backed up by academic references should not be removed.
Szolnok95: "Untermensch book NEVER mentions that the Eastern Europeans are inferior people, or anywhere mention them negatively."
I am sorry what?
This is how the violently racist "Der Untermensch" introduces Eastern Europeans in its second page:
"On the endless stretches of the Russian steppes lays Eastern Europe. The cultural split between this giant expanse and Middle Europe is abrupt and sudden. On both sides of this border, we find the same land -- but not the same man! ... It is an eternal indictment of the Underman that this fertile, full, black earth- which could be a paradise, a European California-is in reality a neglected and desolated. It is a cultural disgrace without precedent. It is a tearful fate of the black earth. ... Eastern Europe did not get beyond a certain level of primitiveness. It saw only chaos because it lacked the man, the valuable carrier of culture, the genius, the systemized imposition of peace, and the meaningful ordering of the endless diches and fertility which the il contains."
And that excerpt is from the translation of the far-right neo-fascist BNP member Arthur Kemp who explicitly stated that he was making a Nazi apologia.
Contrary to your allegations, I actually had read the "Der Untermensch" brochure before. I was emotionally shocked at the de-humanising, racist depictions of Eastern Europeans in that pamphlet. The SS brochure portrayed the Eastern Europeans with venomous disgust and hatred; and my analysis is that it is clear cut evidence of the Nazi policy to mass-exterminate Eastern Europeans.
"Der Untermensch" brochure was designed by the SS (under the orders of Himmler) to violently incite their sympathisers in Nazi-occupied Western Europe towards supporting the Nazi genocide against the indigineous peoples of Eastern Europe; and it will always be remembered as one of the most notorious settler colonial propaganda pieces in history. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 18:59, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
""On the endless stretches of the Russian steppes lays Eastern Europe. The cultural split between this giant expanse and Middle Europe is abrupt and sudden. On both sides of this border, we find the same land -- but not the same man! ...
It is an eternal indictment of the Underman that this fertile, full, black earth- which could be a paradise, a European California-is in reality a neglected and desolated. It is a cultural disgrace without precedent. It is a tearful fate of the black earth. ...
Eastern Europe did not get beyond a certain level of primitiveness. It saw only chaos because it lacked the man, the valuable carrier of culture, the genius, the systemized imposition of peace, and the meaningful ordering of the endless diches and fertility which the il contains.""
I can found this in the Arthur Kemp book as well. Where is the anti Slavic statement? Where? Are u denying the facts, how Eastern Europe suffered from poverty and underdevelopment?
And I guess you missed this line deliberately.
"Russia became the
stamping ground, the place where the Underman's teachings -
And I'd like to add, finally, that I've agreed to keep the things that have been up and supported so far up, and the things I've posted, so that objectivity can decide. Szolnok95 (talk) 17:56, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why are you like this? The book and any mention of the Nazi and German word connotation of the word untermenschen are literally racism against Slavic people. Why are such a thick headed and dishonest like this? 180.253.21.166 (talk) 16:09, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Really? Where is this? Because what you say is nothing more than an assumption.
While the book specifically takes Untermensch and Russian separately.
I’ve consistently attempted to remove a falsely sourced claim about the Nazis continuing to consider the Croats subhuman despite an alliance with the Independent State of Croatia. The source used to back up this claim was
Europe at war : 1939-1945 : no simple victory by Norman Davies, specifically pages 167 and 206. These pages, nor this entire book, back this point. This is a claim that is baseless and appears to have just been used to paint the Croats as useful idiots which is an oversimplification. I’ve uploaded the two pages to an image hosting site so you can check for yourself without having to go out of your way to acquire the book like I have. https://ibb.co/RgrxQ5Dhttps://ibb.co/RhXy6bwGawainKois (talk) 00:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And from 1942, when the man¬ power shortage became very apparent, systematic efforts were made to raise volunteers from every occupied country except Poland and Greece. Frenchmen, Walloons, Italians and Hungarians were all made welcome. In the last years of the war, all pretence of racial exclusivity was abandoned. No less than six of the Waffen SS's thirty-eight divisions were composed of Slavs - Russians, Ukrainians, Czechs, Serbs, Bosnians and Croats - even though Nazi science had classed Slavs as 'subhuman'. This development put the Nazi leaders in a quandary. — Norman Davies. Europe at War 1939-1945: No Simple Victory. p. 209.
This does nothing to specify the continued classification of Croats as “Subhuman” by Nazi Germany, this just groups all Slavs together to note that various Slavic peoples fought for Germany. Germany did not have to agree that the Croats were Slavic for this to be the case. GawainKois (talk) 02:12, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the inclusion of the Spanish national-catholicism
Referring to the inclusion of the Spanish national-catholicism, it would be erased if the page strictly refers to German Untermensch, or would have to remain if it refers to the meaning subhuman that affects also other countries. 139.47.115.113 (talk) 16:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The term Untermensch (pl. Untermenschen) is a German term and the article pretty much covers German usage of the term, hence the title. So I do not see why there should be a section about Spanish nationalist usage of the term 'sub-human'. Perhaps it could be included in an article about the Spanish Civil War or Francoism in general. Maybe it is best suited for Dehumanization instead. Mellk (talk) 06:49, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for your explanation, Mellk. The matter is that origin of the term, before Nazism time, also spread to other countries. In the case of Spain caused the same results, the assassination of the part of the population classified as undermen. Please, let me suggest making a look how has been solved in the catalan wiki: http://ca.wiki.x.io/wiki/Infrahome139.47.118.96 (talk) 14:25, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think I understood you correctly. If this originated before Nazi use, then wouldn't this belong to dehumanization instead? I think ca:Infrahome has a broader scope, whereas this en.wiki article has a more limited scope, hence the German title. But it does not look like there is an article that covers use of the term "sub-human" specifically. Subhuman is only a disambiguation page. Mellk (talk) 06:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
