Talk:St. Jude Children's Research Hospital/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Edit Request

Hi @Kingapresa, @Throast, & @Spintendo,

Tagging you all for visibility! Thank you again for all of your help so far. I have updated this request to include citations, reasons for each ask, and have targeted neutrality and weasel words. Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

1. In the intro paragraph remove the following sentence:

St. Jude treats patients up to age 21, and for some conditions, up to age 25.

Reason: Duplicate content as it is mentioned in the Hospital functions & effects section.

 Declined As I understand from reading Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section, the lead is meant to summarize info found in the article, so duplication isn't necessarily grounds for removal. I think the age guidelines are important for readers to understand the hospital. I think a better argument could be that the info is poorly sourced (the hospital's website is what Wikipedia refers to as a primary source), but there's no reason to question the accuracy of the info. If the goal is to eventually remove the flags, I don't think this statement matters. STEMinfo (talk) 21:29, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

2. Remove the following sentences from the Awards and achievements section:

St. Jude and over 46 of its staff members have been the recipients of numerous awards and achievements.

It has also been named one of the top 10 companies to work for in academia by The Scientist for seven successive years.

Reason: Remove for neutrality purposes and the first sentence is vague.

 DoneSTEMinfo (talk) 20:55, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

3. Remove the following paragraph from the Affiliated hospitals section:

These sites are used as a means of referring eligible patients to St. Jude as well as a location to administer some care. Through the Domestic Affiliates Program staff at St. Jude work together and collaborate with those at the other institutions. Affiliated sites are expected to comply with standards set by St. Jude and are audited to ensure proper and quality care.

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing as current link is primary and redirects to a 404.

 Done STEMinfo (talk) 21:07, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

4. Remove the following paragraphs from the Funding section:

In 2019, ALSAC raised $1.9 billion from donations, of which $975 million (51%) went to St. Jude. The rest of the funds were either spent on functional expenses for ALSAC or added to their fund balance, which totaled $5.7 billion at the end of 2019. In 2020, ALSAC raised $2.4 billion, of which $2 billion were from donations and contributions (84%). $997 million (42%) of this went to St. Jude. At the end of 2020, St Jude's fund balance was $8.03 billion. 74% percent of St. Jude's total budget comes from donations, and the hospital costs about $1.7 million per day to run.

All medically eligible patients who are accepted for treatment at St. Jude are treated without regard to the family's ability to pay. Families of patients at St. Jude do not pay for treatments that are not covered by insurance, and families without insurance do not need to pay for any expense. All families do not need to pay for travel, housing, or food.

Three separate specially-designed patient housing facilities—Tri Delta Place for short-term (up to one week), Ronald McDonald House for medium-term (one week to 3 months), and Target House for long-term (3 months or more)—provide housing for patients and up to three family members. These policies, along with research expenses and other costs, add up to approximately $1.7 million in operating costs each day.

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing and neutrality as the beginning of this section reads as very promotional.

 Declined I added a source for the 2nd paragraph, but I'm not sure removing the funding info improves the article. I think readers will be interested in how the funding works for the hospital. STEMinfo (talk) 21:07, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

5. Remove the following sentences from the Philanthropic aid section:

To cover operating costs, ALSAC conducts many fund-raising events and activities. The WGC Invitational, a PGA Tour event, is one of the most visible fund-raising events for the hospital.

Other fund-raising programs include the St. Jude Math-A-Thon, Up 'til Dawn, direct mailings, radiothons and television marketing.

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing.

 Declined - I think this is useful info, and I added sources instead. STEMinfo (talk) 00:17, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

6. Remove the following paragraph from the Thanks and Giving section:

Corporations give customers a host of opportunities to support St. Jude. The ultimate goal is to increase awareness with the hope that people will come to identify Thanksgiving with St. Jude, said Joyce Aboussie, vice chairwoman of the nonprofit's board. The official kick-off event for the Thanks and Giving campaign is the Give Thanks Walk. This event is a noncompetitive 5K that is now held in 75 cities across the country. Those participating in the race are encouraged to form teams, invite family and friends, and raise money for St. Jude. These walks have raised over $11 million to date.

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing as the current sources are either outdated, or 404 redirects.

Reply 25-JUL-2023

 Unable to implement. This information no longer exists in the article.

 Spintendo  03:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done, but not by me. STEMinfo (talk) 20:45, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

7. Remove the following sentence from the Other funding initiatives section:

At various college campuses, some student organizations, fraternities and sororities raise funds in a program called Up 'til Dawn.

And replace with the following sentence:

Up ‘til Dawn is a program in which college students raise funds for St. Jude.

Reason: Reword for neutrality purposes and to support the new third party source as the original source is a 404 redirect.

 Approved  Spintendo  03:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

8. Add source to the following sentence:

Phi Mu Delta National Fraternity is partnered with St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

Reason: Provide a proper third party source to remove the opinion tag.

Reply 25-JUL-2023

Not done
The newer source is merely an article where members of the Phi Mu organization discuss the work they do with the charity. This source does not resolve the opinion inline template.

 Spintendo  03:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

9. Edit the following sentence in the Other funding initiatives section from:

Tau Kappa Epsilon (TKE) a Fraternity partnered with St. Jude, in the 1970s and 1980s to help raise money to fight childhood cancer.

To:

Tau Kappa Epsilon (TKE) a Fraternity partnered with St. Jude, announced a commitment in 2019 to raise $10 million in ten years.

Reason: Rewrite the sentence to support the new third party source as the original two sources did not support the information and one was a 404 redirect.

 Declined This claim involves the future. See WP:CRYSTALBALL.  Spintendo  03:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

10. Remove the following sentence from the Other funding initiatives section:

The fraternity renewed its link to St. Jude as its philanthropy of emphasis in 2008.

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing as one source is a 404 redirect and the other is a link to a homepage that does not support the information.

 Approved  Spintendo  03:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

11. Edit the following sentence the Other funding initiatives section from:

Tri Delta supports St. Jude nationally and supports cancer charities at a local level. At the hospital in Memphis, the sorority donated the Teen Room for teenage patients to relax and spend time with each other. In July 2010, Tri Delta completed its "10 by 10" goal, raising over $10 million in less than four years, six years short of the original goal. Those funds were used to sponsor the Tri Delta Patient Care Floor in the Chili's Care Center. Upon completion of the "10 by 10" campaign, the sorority announced a new fundraising goal of $15 million in 5 years to name the Specialty Clinic located in the Patient Care Center. Three and a half years later, Delta Delta Delta had raised $15 million and completed its goal ahead of schedule. To:

Tri Delta has supported St. Jude nationally and sponsored the Tri Delta Patient Care Floor with funds raised in 2010.

Reason: Reword to be neutral and properly sourced as the current sources are outdated.

 Approved  Spintendo  03:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

12. Remove the following sentence from the Other funding initiatives section:

Another fundraising is the Country Cares for St. Jude Kids radiothon. During these events, country radio stations around the country allow those involved with St. Jude to share stories with listeners, who are encouraged to donate. The 200 stations involved have helped raise over $400 million since 1989. Country artists have also supported St. Jude through concerts, hospital visits, call-ins, and other forms of support.

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing as the source does not support the information.

 Approved  Spintendo  03:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

13. Replace the sentences above with the following in the Other funding initiatives section:

The Country Cares radiothon fundraiser began in 1989. Since it started, more than 200 stations have participated and helped raise more than $400 million for St. Jude.

Reason: Replace to be neutral with proper third party sourcing.

Reply 25-JUL-2023

Not done
KSNT's story about St Jude resembled an advertisement, in that it exhorted readers to "Listen to 94.5 Country and Country 106.9 Thursday and Friday" and included links to gain more information from 94.5 Country Radio. Whether or not Nexstar (the owner of KSNT) received payment for this from 94.5 is unknown, but not improbable.

 Spintendo  03:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

14. Remove the following sentence from the Other funding initiatives section:

Since 2001 the St. Jude Memphis Marathon has raised over $90 million for the kids and families at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing.

 Approved  Spintendo  03:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks again for your time and effort with these edits, it's greatly appreciated! Please let me know if you have any suggestions to further help with the tags and improve the article. AliceStacey (talk) 17:13, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

References

Edit Request

Hi! I’m looking to have the current neutrality and weasel words tags on the page removed. I have been working with editors in the community to help improve the page, and with feedback I have received, I now believe that the page is up to Wikipedia standards. If you would like to review the changes we’ve made to get the page in alignment with Wikipedia guidelines, please reference our above edit requests!

If there are any other changes that could help to improve the page further, I’m happy to start a discussion and work to develop future requests to continue to ensure this article is Wikipedia approved and up to date.

Thank you so much!

AliceStacey (talk) 18:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

@AliceStacey: This one's easy. Pinging @The Elusive Penguin: who tagged the article back in March 2022. The words he was concerned with are gone, and indeed that entire hospital section has been rewritten and renamed. He may be willing to remove the tags after reviewing. If he's not active, then another editor can review and see that the article has been much improved. STEMinfo (talk) 22:58, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Partially done. Weasel words are gone, but there's way too much fund about funding partnership and such. I also cut out unencyclopedic trivia about celebrity visitors entirely. Graywalls (talk) 20:13, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @STEMinfo and @Graywalls,

Thank you both so much for getting back to me quickly on this, I really appreciate it. In my past request from July 2023, I had included asks to remove information from the funding and other funding sections due to a lack of proper sourcing and neutrality issues. Many of those requests were denied as the editor that responded felt removing the information would not improve the article, however, I would be happy to put in a new request including the removal of this information again if you would like.

Please let me know what you think, or if there is anything else that needs to be amended to improve the article.

Thank you!

AliceStacey (talk) 18:11, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

My concern is about the excessive coverage on fundraisers rather than encyclopedic coverage on fund sources. Graywalls (talk) 18:15, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I was the one who thought the funding and funding events should stay. I'm not sure donors are aware that their donations don't all go to needy patients. A lot of the donations seem to be funding marketing and administrative efforts. This critical article digs deeper into the finances.[1] As far as funding events, I added some sources, but I'll let others look at them and decide whether those activities are worth keeping or not. STEMinfo (talk) 00:37, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

I think we need in prose break down of where the funds go with proper sources, but all the warm and fuzzy name specific fundraising events should be toned down. I pruned quite a bit. How does it look now? Should I trim even more? Graywalls (talk) 01:02, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

I think you pulled out the least notable fundraising activities. The sources weren't great. What's left seems fine and notable. If other fundraising activities get better coverage, they can always be proposed to be added. I'll take a look at the Propublica article again with a fresh eye and see if there's any value in adding some of their reporting to keep things balanced. STEMinfo (talk) 21:00, 27 August 2023 (UTC)