Talk:St. Jude Children's Research Hospital/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

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Photo of St. Jude

The photo of St. Judes on this page is being claimed fair use. However the justification on the fair use tag being used states that the image is only fair use "in the absence of free images that could serve such a purpose". It should be a relatively easy task for a wikipedian in the Memphis area to go and get a photo of the hospital. JeremyA 00:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

• Well, it's not as easy as you think. The angle that photo was taken from indicates that it was taken from the top of a crane or other large structure. St. Jude is a massive complex, and it would difficult if not impossible (aside from renting some large machinery) to get a picture even remotely approaching the quality of the one currently in the article. - Jersyko·talk 00:59, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I believe the "other large structure" is a building that is located next to the Grizzly House (the short-term patient housing facility.) So I don't think it is that difficult to get that picture, although I don't know how accessible that particular building is. —Doug Bell ^{talk•contrib} 10:32, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Good point, though the angle won't be quite as good. In any event, a new picture could at least remedy the horrible resolution problem the current picture has. I don't know if the Grizzly House is accessible or not. - Jersyko·talk 13:35, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
      • The Grizzly House is not going to have an accessible location other than a patient room, but no matter, because the building I'm referring to would block the view. —Doug Bell ^{talk•contrib} 16:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You don't need to get the exact same view for a replacement photo. Any photo that would serve the same purpose would do. If I still lived in Memphis I'd go and take one myself. JeremyA 23:51, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

If I lived in Memphis I'd go myself, but it's pretty far to go from San Diego.  :-) —Doug Bell ^{talk•contrib} 01:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Added information

This is my first time on this site, so please forgive me if I seem forward. I was reading the artical, which was very well written, and I wasn't sure if you were aware or not that Kay Jewelers isn't the only one of the Sterling Jewelers Inc. companies that contribute to St. Jude's. There are 12 stores under the Sterling name: Kay Jewelers, JB Robinson Jewelers, Jared, The Galleria of Jewelry, Osterman Jewelers, Shaw's Jewelers, Goodman Jewelers, Weisfield Jewelers, LeRoy's Jewelers, Rogers Jewelers,Friedlanders Jewelers, Belden Jewelers and Marks and Morgan Jewelers. We all sell plush stuffed animals every year, with 100% of proceeds going to St. Jude's. Princessann83 (talk) 02:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)CM

Move

I would like to suggest moving this article to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital (Memphis) to meet the Naming conventions (places) standard. I am not entirely sure that this is necessary. However other hospitals in the state have names that are similar or the same to those in other states and need the parenthetical disambiguation to distinguish them. That leads to my main motive for asking about the move, do we have the article consistent with other hospital articles in the state and elsewhere? Or do we leave it as is because it is such a widely known place? Input please, anyone. Thanks
~User:Dan9186 1 November, 2007 01:12 (UTC)

No one protested and a minimum of 5 days was given so I went ahead and performed the move. If it needs to be reverted check the redirects because I updated them as well.
~User:Dan9186 7 November, 2007 05:15 (UTC)

I've moved the article to "St. Jude Children's Research Hospital" per Wikipedia:NCGN#Disambiguation. There is no need for disambiguation since there is no other hospital that goes by this same name. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  05:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Charge for care

This page notes that St. Jude's is the only pediatric research facility that does not charge for care. Shriners Hospitals for Children is a network of 22 hospitals across North America which do not charge for care, and nearly all these hospitals conduct significant research. I think this citation should be changed to reflect that fact. Ewachspress 14:58, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

• Ewachspress is correct. The Shriners Hospitals and the Texas Scottish Rite (Masonic) Hospital for Children maintain similar policies. The Shriners Hospitals - unless there has been a recent change - do not, in fact, even accept insurance payments (private or governmental), seeking to assure that their medical care decisions will never be influenced by cost-benefit perceptions of third-party payors. Irish Melkite 12:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Apparently, this change was never made. I just did it.

68.104.173.148 (talk) 13:29, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Figure Updates and More General Information

While looking through this page, I noticed that many of the figures presented were outdated. Therefore, I updated many of these numbers to reflect St. Jude currently rather than its statistics numerous years ago. Examples of this are its operating cost and percentage of every dollar donated that is applied directly to St. Jude's research and treatment. I also saw it necessary to provide more information about how the idea of founding the hospital was created, its mission, and the awards and achievements of both St. Jude and its staff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Khimmelberg (talk • contribs) 00:58, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Merger proposal

See Talk:Thanks and Giving - the part of that article covering the Thanks and Giving program is somewhat short (two paragraphs), and the rest of the article is about the hospital and a list of corporate partners (which should probably be cut down). I'd like to propose redirecting that article to this one and integrating this information into the "Funding" section of that article, which already includes some details about the Thanks and Giving program. This seems like a reasonably uncontroversial merge, but I figure there's no harm in checking for other opinions before I go ahead and do it. Dreamyshade (talk) 08:46, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Philanthropic Aid citations and updates

I fixed the missing citations in the Philanthropic Aid section and updated the statistics from Epsilon Sigma Alpha International and the Dream Home Giveaway to current numbers. It also appears that in some cases the text in this section directly matches text on the source pages, but I didn't make any of those types of changes.

(Apologies for making so many separate updates. I'd make a change and *then* notice yet another missing citation or wikicode error, but I wasn't using the preview function properly at the time.) Metheglyn (talk) 01:52, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Fundraising

St. Jude's Children's Research Center is using questionable practices in fund-raising. There is something called the "Mathathon" where children (as young as 6) are shown heart-rending videos of children with cancer and are encouraged to go out into the community and solicit pledges for doing math problems. This fund-raising is done with some very slick materials, to say nothing of the videos. I find it difficult to believe that Marlo Thomas actually knows about this.

Research shows that 23% of donations is spent on fund-raising. The Better Business Bureau allows up to 35%, which I consider egregious. .Kdewittjr 23:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

This talk page is not meant for discussion of the article's subject, but rather for discussion of the article itself. Do you have any specific suggestions regarding how to change this article? · jersyko talk 00:58, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. If wish to add conflicting information please contribute in proper context with the article. LostLucidity (talk) 01:54, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Kdewittjr, Who are you to deem their fundraising practices "questionable" and "egregious"? That's just your opinion. And you have no idea of what Marlo Thomas knows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cherrysunburst (talk • contribs) 20:01, 19 February 2014 (UTC) P.S and your self-righteous statement that you "limit donations to organizations that spend well under 20% of donations on fund-raising" is completely irrelevant to the content of the article. In fact, all of your comments are pointless and irrelevant.

Let's try to have a less judgmental discussion about fundraising practices. [American Lebanese Syrian Associated Charities] (ALSAC) is the enterprise that handles all fundraising for St. Jude (aside from NIH and some other research grants). When you see St. Jude fundraising, advertising, or events, the people behind it are paid by ALSAC, as are the costs for the advertising and events. Irrespective of what Marlo Thomas knows or doesn't know, some of the fundraising techniques used by ALSAC may be disturbing to some people, or even a vast majority of people. In reality, based on a thorough examination of the past seven years of for 990 filings, fundraising expense as a percentage of fundraising revenue is 33.5% (average of 7 years filing data) for ALSAC, but this ignores any contribution to fundraising from the St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, or any dilution of fundraising costs through cost-sharing by ALSAC. For example, direct mail solicitations by ALSAC are printed on the back with some dense information about cancer, such that a good part of the cost of the direct mail solicitation is chalked up to 'public education and awareness about cancer'. Was 'to inform the public' really the intent of the direct mail solicitation -- of course not, but it does allow the accountants to make it look as if ALSAC's fundraising expenses were lower than they actually were. There are many more examples of these types of practices, such that we should take 33.5% as a 'lower bound' on the real cost ratio. Jay P. Levinson (talk) 15:54, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge with American Lebanese Syrian Associated Charities

These are intertwined corporations without independent notability: ALSAC and St. Jude and issue a combined financial report and have the same board of directors, and ALSAC's funds are dedicated by its own bylaws to St. Jude. Choosing St. Jude Children's Research Hospital as the primary article because it seems to be the one used most often by the subject in the last 15 years. Also, the article St. Jude Children's Research Hospital was created first on 2004-11-06; the article American Lebanese Syrian Associated Charities was created on 2005-05-18; some content from the St. Jude article was apparently copy-pasted to ALSAC article on 2007-04-21. --Closeapple (talk) 01:37, 15 February 2017 (UTC) Closeapple (talk) 01:32, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

These are fundamentally different entities and should be kept separate; they have separate Employer Identification Numbers, they have separate leadership, their policies and procedures differ, their pay scales differ, and most importantly they perform very different functions. St. Jude is a hospital and a research facility. ALSAC is a fundraising organisation. Each would have a vastly different NAICS. Simply because two business enterprises have the same Board of Directors (albeit with different individuals in different positions for each entity) would combine many Korean Chaebols into a single entity, such that we cannot use BOD membership as a criteria for merging entities. Being able to examine ALSAC and St. Jude as distinct and separate entities best serves the public interest in terms of clarity. As for the copying of material, the sole editor (Tara) is an ALSAC employee whose copying obfuscates ALSAC - that is, before my edits. Fortunately, IRS reporting requirements (that is, Form 990's) show two very different businesses. Given the controversies surrounding charities and their use of funds or policies, most recently Wounded Warrior Project with their New York Times expose and subsequent Senate investigation, it would seem that masking the behavior of ALSAC by combining its page into St. Jude would be a vast mistake. Jay P. Levinson (talk) 03:29, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

They don't seem like fundamentally different organizations to me: They seem fundamentally two functions in the same organization, with different corporations for internal legal advantages. That's like saying someone's arm is fundamentally different than their leg, so Babe Ruth ought to have two articles. EINs are issued like candy; of course, if they have two legal incorporations they'll have two different EINs. How do their policies differ? It looks like a legal technicality to me. Does one of them appoint the board members of the other? Truly separate entities don't issue a combined financial statement. And how would merging the two articles "mask" material? If they're merged, any behavior by ALSAC would be in the St. Jude article, right? --Closeapple (talk) 18:22, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

My apologies in advance for anything I say that might put you off - I have been studying these two for years. You are right that there are some "internal legal advantages" in the separation; for example, ALSAC is not held to Federal Acquisition Regulations (FARs), so inefficiency or corruption in procurement are much more easily accomplished at ALSAC than at St. Jude. That comment aside, ALSAC and St. Jude are fundamentally different in what they do - a Sales and Marketing organization (ALSAC) and a Research Hospital (St. Jude) that behave in very different ways. One principal reason for them to be separate is to mask their actual cost ratios, although other reasons such as differing management expertise are also valid. Your analogy of "Babe Ruth's two legs" implies that each leg does the same thing - that is not the case here. The have different policies, very different standards (St. Jude must adhere to standards for a Hospital, and to Government standards as they are the recipient of NIH grants), and much different payscales -- ALSAC people are paid far more than St. Jude people for substantially the same type of work. Far from a legal technicality, each entity performs vastly different functions under separate (and sometimes feuding) management. These are a pair of closely held entities where neither enterprise appoints the board members of the other; board members are generally the progeny of the founding Syrian and Lebanese families, appointed by other board members. It is actually a public service that the two are separate -- in Wikipedia and in organization -- as anyone with substantial accounting knowledge can compare the two 990's (ALSAC and St. Jude in the same fiscal year) and get very different answers than the ones promulgated in the St. Jude article on Wikipedia. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and in this case, keeping ALSAC and St. Jude separate lets the sunlight in (part of my efforts in editing these pages for accuracy). As for combined financial statements, auditors must please their clients - any two unrelated entities (e.g. - NIKE and Microsoft) can issue a combined financial statement. Having a combined financial statement and annual report are also misleading; it leads to statements such as, "83.7% of every dollar received by St. Jude went to the current or future needs of St. Jude." This statement misleads donors, as it is really on the order of 52% of ALSAC annual revenue (taken in the name of St. Jude donations) that actually ends up at the St. Jude Hospital in that fiscal year (average of 7 years of 990's from ALSAC). Another $0.12 of ALSAC revenue is poured into a (slush?) "Fund" -- currently near $4.0 billion and controlled only by the same people: the members of the board of directors. So, having these entities separate -- in Wikipedia and in fact -- gives us a vast level of financial and operating visibility that would be masked in a joint article. With a joint article, you'll never find it, as crucial information won't even appear in the footnotes of a combined financial statement. If we put both Wikipedia articles together, the vast differences between St.Jude Children's Research Hospital and ALSAC would have other Wikipedia users howling for us to break them apart. Jay P. Levinson (talk) 15:31, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

If they're operating truly separately (e.g. often at loggerheads with each other) and have separate notability, then that's reason to keep them separate. But isn't a lot of that information already effectively buried by having a separate article, since most people will look at the St. Jude article and not see the ALSAC article? Both entities' finances will have to be discussed in some detail at both articles for the reader of either one to understand what's going on. Maybe you're already writing about those details in each article though. --Closeapple (talk) 15:52, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Hello Closeapple. Yes, there are a number of us, actually, that are working to sort this out and make it clear to all parties, regardless of the page they land on. I serve as scribe (and not a very good one), but we'll be bringing clarity to both articles. One principal reason for retaining separation that I have not mentioned is the extreme disgust that many St. Jude people feel with regard to the behavior at ALSAC - see my comment about under "Fundraising" on this talk page for a bit more insight. As for what we've uncovered to date, I'm sorry to say that it may be rolled out rather slowly, as there may be criminal and civil penalties associated with what we bring to light -- not for us, but for ALSAC in particular. As the $4 billion (slush?) fund could operate the Hospital for about 8 years simply from the drawing down the balance, and likely forever if invested properly, there may be no impact to the Hospital's good work from whatever happens at ALSAC. This makes for my rather judicious, if circuitous, commentary. (Also, writing in American English is a strain). Jay P. Levinson (talk) 16:16, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Catholic charities

Does Catholic Church provide funds to St Jude. How long has Catholic Church contributed to this non profit. Why is this charity part of carthorse church? Raymond nardo (talk) 01:23, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

sourcing & objectivity

This article could benefit from additional sourcing and objectivity. For example, the section captioned "The Hospital" makes impressive claims but provides no sources at all. Reliably sourced information on outcomes and costs would help a lot. Alas this information can be difficult to find for any hospital, although it should be published for all hospitals.TVC 15 (talk) 19:14, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

You're basically correct. The information in the article (and in that section) happens to be true, however it should be sourced better, as 4 of the 7 refs are a primary source. If anybody finds references to this information, I encourage adding them. To this end, I've added the primarysources tag to the article. -- Otto (talk) 20:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The "The hospital" section of the article uses subjective words such as "profound", "toughest" and this poses serious concerns about the objectivity of the article. The Elusive Penguin (talk) 17:10, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Alleged Nepotism?

I've been asked how St. Jude management and senior staff salaries compare to other similarly-situated hospitals? If these salaries are significantly higher, are the recipients related in some way (even beyond familial) to board members and other senior staff? Jan Steinman (talk) 13:18, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

St. Jude Stashed Away $886 Million in Unspent Revenue Last Year

A June 8th article from ProPublica about St. Jude’s fundraising: [3] Thriley (talk) 15:56, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

COI Request

Hello fellow editors! I’m with St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and have disclosed my conflict of interest. I am looking to make some changes to the page and would appreciate some help. Here are the changes:

 Partly done: Any future reviewers: I have done most of this, if you want to check the final source that I couldn't get, I'd appreciate it. Also, pinging User:AliceStacey, I converted your bare links into citation templates, please ping me if you think anything was done wrong. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 00:41, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi IAmChaos, thank you so much for completing this request for us, it is very much appreciated! If you have any feedback, I would greatly appreciate it as I am still navigating the world of Wiki editing.

Could you take a look at the ALSAC Wikipedia page? We have also made an edit request to the ALSAC talk page.

If you have any questions please feel free to reach out on my talk page, and thank you in advance!

AliceStacey (talk) 18:17, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Citation for premise of hospital foundation “The hospital was founded on the premise that "no child should die in the dawn of life".

Sources:

Citation for shrine Thomas built “Years later, Thomas became a successful comedian and built St. Jude Children's Research Hospital as a shrine to St. Jude Thaddeus to honor his promise.”

Sources:

Remove the word also Could we please remove the word also from this sentence as ALSAC’s only purpose is to raise funds and awareness for St. Jude: “ALSAC is also one fundraising organization of St. Jude.”

Citation for Samuel Stritch “Memphis was chosen at the suggestion of Catholic Cardinal Samuel Stritch, a Tennessee native who had been a spiritual advisor to Thomas since he presided at Thomas's confirmation in Thomas's boyhood home of Toledo, Ohio.”

Source:

Citation for St. Jude having no religious affiliations “Although it was named after Thomas's patron saint, St. Jude is not a Catholic hospital and is a secular institution not affiliated with any religious organization.”

Source:

Citation for expansion of the hospital “The Pediatric Brain Tumor Consortium, two floors of outpatient clinics, one floor of inpatient clinics and rooms, two floors of laboratory space, an office floor and an unfinished level for future expansion.”

Source:

I don't have access to this source, will leave for someone else Happy Editing--IAmChaos 23:19, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Citation for the Marlo Thomas Center “In 2014, the Marlo Thomas Center for Global Education and Collaboration was opened as part of the hospital.”

Source:

Citation for St. Jude Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences “In 2017, the St. Jude Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences accepted its inaugural class of PhD students.”

Source: AliceStacey (talk) 15:00, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

 Done Source @IAmChaos was unable to access has been added with archive Kingapresa (talk) 16:56, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Kingapresa, thank you so much for completing this request for us, it is very much appreciated! If you have any feedback, I would greatly appreciate it as I am still navigating the world of Wiki editing.

Could you take a look at the ALSAC Wikipedia page? We have also made an edit request to the ALSAC talk page.

If you have any questions please feel free to reach out on my talk page, and thank you in advance!

AliceStacey (talk) 18:18, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi @AliceStacey, I'm sorry for the late reply. I forgot about this thread. If you add @ in front of a username, it will ping a person and notify them of a reply. I appreciate your patience. I will take a look at your new edit request for St. Jude's. I need to finish out this week, but I will have time this weekend.

If I need to reach you with questions or comments, instead of heading over to your talk page, I would prefer to ping you here in this talk page, if that's okay. Just to keep the conservation organized.

Just from a quick glance at your request, you have two sources that link to St. Jude's own website. Wikipedia prefers to avoid primary sources. If you could find secondary sources that have the same information, that would be helpful. Otherwise the information found in the primary source may not be added. Best-- Kingapresa (talk) 01:24, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Forgot to add: unless you use the visual editor, just adding @ will not work. In source, you'll need to use wikitext to add a wikilink to the user's page. Or if you know this already, I'm sorry for assuming otherwise Kingapresa (talk) 01:35, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Kingapresa ! Thank you so much for getting back to me, I really appreciate it. I will look into those secondary sources for you right now and provide them as soon as possible. I appreciate your help and patience with this! AliceStacey (talk) 15:41, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

References

 In progress Happy Editing--IAmChaos 23:03, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

 Partly done I couldnt get into one source, I have c/p the last part that needs to be done below for the next reviewer. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 00:39, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Citation for expansion of the hospital

“The Pediatric Brain Tumor Consortium, two floors of outpatient clinics, one floor of inpatient clinics and rooms, two floors of laboratory space, an office floor and an unfinished level for future expansion.”

Source:

References

I don't have access to this source, will leave for someone else Happy Editing--IAmChaos 23:19, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

COI Request 2

Hello fellow editors! I’m with St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and have disclosed my conflict of interest. I am looking to make some more changes to the page and would appreciate some help. I know that there are several requests, so if there’s an easier way to break it up, please let me know! Here are the changes:

1. Change the first sentence to read as follows and add citations: “St. Jude Children's Research Hospital is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization with annual expenses, and as of 2021 received $2 billion in donations.”

Sources: https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2021-07-22/st-jude-hits-donation-milestone-to-fight-childhood-cancer https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/digital-marketing/the-keys-to-st-jude-s-2b-2020-fundraising-effort-a-digital-shift-mission-to-space.html

2. Citations for ALSAC raising funds “Donations for St. Jude come from many sources, including government grants and insurance recoveries, but the principal source of funding (75% average) is from the American Lebanese Syrian Associated Charities (ALSAC) – a semi-independent entity that raises funds using the name of St. Jude.”

Sources: https://time.com/6083981/st-jude-chief-fundraising-inspiration4/ https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/351044585?source

3. Change the following sentence to read as follows and add citation: “According to the company, of a dollar donated to the American Lebanese Syrian Associated Charities, about $0.82 goes directly to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.”

Source: https://www.stjude.org/about-st-jude/faq/how-much-of-what-i-donate-actually-benefits-the-children.html

4. Change the following sentence to read as follows and add citation: “St. Jude is a pediatric research organization in the United States where families never pay for treatments that are not covered by insurance, and families without insurance do not receive a bill from St. Jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food.”

Source: https://www.the961.com/danny-thomas-st-jude-hospital/

5. Citation for housing facilities “In addition to providing medical services to eligible patients, St. Jude also assists families with transportation, lodging, and meals. Three separate specially-designed patient housing facilities— Tri Delta Place for short-term (up to one week), Ronald McDonald House for medium-term (one week to 3 months), and Target House for long-term (3 months or more)—provide housing for patients and up to three family members, with no cost to the patient.”

Source: https://www.stjude.org/treatment/patient-resources/while-here/housing.html

6. Remove the following sentence due to lack of proper sourcing: “These policies, along with research expenses and other costs, cause the hospital to incur more than $2.4 million in operating costs each day.”

AliceStacey (talk) 20:14, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Kingapresa, pinging you on this edit request! Below is an updated source for #5.

https://julesoflife.org/get-help/locations-of-care/stjudechildrenshospital

Thank you again for looking these over and taking the time to make the changes, I really appreciate it! If by chance you have time and it is of interest to you, I have also posted a COI request on the ALSAC Wikipedia page.

Please feel free to ping me with any questions or concerns, I am always happy to help where possible. AliceStacey (talk) 17:55, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi @AliceStacey, I'm sorry about the wait. I know I said I would look at it last week, however I had a lot of other items come up on my agenda that I had to prioritize. I'm here to look at it now :)

1. I was hesitant to change the first sentence to your suggestion. I believe first and foremost, St. Jude's should be recognized as a research facility and treatment center. The fact that they are a nonprofit should come secondary to their primary purpose as an organization. However, since it is still important, I've done some rearranging of the paragraph to make sure St. Jude's designation as a nonprofit is not glossed over. Let me know what you think. U.S. News is a good source and I included it but I'm not sure about Becker's Hospital Review; I left them out.
2. I couldn't find the 75% average figure on the Time's article or Charity Navigator, the two sources provided. I also couldn't find it online or in the 2020 financial report. I instead found an article talking about ALSAC's 2019 IRS Form 990 which states a figure of 51%. I reworded mentions of ALSAC to fit your change and the new information I found. I added both sources for ALSAC in general. Though they are primary sources, they are financial statements, which are federally required to be accurate and trustworthy. Therefore I personally believe using them as a source is okay.
3. It appears you found a new primary source for request 5, however request 3 also links to a primary source. The information also seems to contradict what is on the financial statements, or is a misleading figure. I won't be able to include it for these reasons.
4. I'm not sure what sentence you wanted changed, but I assume it's the sentence "St. Jude is one of a few pediatric research organizations in the United States where families never pay for treatments that are not covered by insurance, and families without insurance are never asked to pay." The new sentence still sort of reads like an advert, so I made a few changes. Since "travel, housing, and food" is mentioned later on with "transportation, lodging, and meals" I decided not to include the second mention so it is not repeated. Let me know if the new information is inaccurate in any way.
5. Source added. Last part of the sentence "with no cost to the patient.” was removed since it is now redundant.
6. I figure of 2.4 million dollars per day to run was changed to 1.7 million, because the original figure came from St. Jude which is a primary source. 1.7 million was the number I got from "Philanthropy Roundtable." I added that source to retain the sentence.

In the future, the article will need to have changes made to make it more neutral. Much of it sounds like how St. Jude would like to describe themselves.

I will personally be quite busy this month. I'll keep this edit request open until you have the time to confirm or ask for changes. Come November, I'll have more free time to respond here and finish this up, and I'll also be able to look at your COI edit request for ALSAC. Thank you for your edit request and again apologies for the late response. Kingapresa (talk) 20:23, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Kingapresa,

Thank you so much again for your time and help with this request, I really appreciate it. If there are any links that need to be updated, or you have any suggestions on content that can be updated to be more neutral, please let me know as I’d be happy to draft something up to improve the page.

Thank you again!

AliceStacey (talk) 18:07, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @AliceStacey, sure thing!

I am finally on a long break, so I can take more time here. Here are some sections you can redraft to make more neutral:

-Awards and achievements. "numerous awards" are weasel words since it's vague phrasing and unverifiable. That could use a source and be reworded.

-Thanks and Giving. Unverified information that needs sources and the entire section sounds promotional. "host of opportunities" are more weasel words

-Philanthropic aid. Third paragraph should be rewritten for neutrality. And in the 2nd paragraph, that last sentence needs a different source. The link no longer supports the information provided.

-Other funding initiatives. Most of it is fine, but the first two paragraphs need some work. They need to be rewritten and properly sourced or removed.

And for other links that need to be updated...Any source that leads directly to information provided by St. Jude on their website are primary sources. The exception to this is when they publish their IRS forms, because they have been reputably published (reviewed by an auditor to confirm that they are factual). Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about information provided directly to consumers by an entity, since it does not go through any sort of comb before being published. With secondary sources, there is at least one person combing through the information from primary sources to determine if it is factual, and so that is why secondary sources are generally more acceptable citations. Of course there are untrustworthy secondary sources, but Wikipedia does try to avoid them.

I am talking about all of this because this page's information relies quite heavily on un-combed primary sources.. those that come directly through St. Jude's website. So if you would like to help update links, scroll through the references, look at every citation that comes from St. Jude's website, and see if that same information is provided by another entity that is not associated with St. Jude. And also, any note on the page that says "citation needed" or "better source needed" could also be updated by providing a reliable source.

For example, citation 41 leads to St. Jude's website. But that information can likely be found on a secondary source.

If you would like to help with these issues by writing drafts and finding new sources, it would be greatly appreciated! I am going to look at ALSAC's edit request soon. Is it okay if I close this edit request now; everything's been satisfied here? If you make a draft, that can be a new edit request.

Best-- Kingapresa (talk) 04:52, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Kingapresa,

Thank you so much for all of this feedback! We are going to utilize this to helpfully improve the article and will happily ping you in future to ensure we're on the right track. This request can be closed!

Thank you again~

AliceStacey (talk) 16:10, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

@AliceStacey @Kingapresa Cleaning up the backlog...closing this request as requested above. Cheers. Duke Gilmore (talk) 02:49, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

COI Request

Hi @Kingapresa& @Duke Gilmore,

Thank you both so much for your time, patience, and efforts helping with the last edit request, I really appreciate it! To continue improving the sources on the page I’d like to request the following changes:

1. Remove sources 11 and 12 from the following sentence:

“Memphis was chosen at the suggestion of Catholic Cardinal Samuel Stritch, a Tennessee native who had been a spiritual advisor to Thomas since he presided at Thomas's confirmation in Thomas's boyhood home of Toledo, Ohio.”

Replace with the following source:

https://people.com/archive/st-jude-childrens-hospital-was-danny-thomas-dream-but-dr-alvin-mauer-makes-it-come-true-vol-11-no-17/

2. Add sources to the following sentence:

“St. Jude has an International Outreach Program to improve the survival rates of children with catastrophic illnesses worldwide.”

Sources:

https://www.stjude.org/global.html

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2018/05/24/st-jude-childrens-research-hospital-memphis-goes-international/636772002/

3. Add source to the following sentence:

“He was succeeded by current CEO and director James R. Downing on July 15, 2014.”

Source:

https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2014/jun/26/st-jude-names-downing-new-ceo/

4. Add source to the following sentence:

“St. Jude Board of Directors is chaired by Paul J. Ayoub and includes Joyce Aboussie, Ruth Gaviria, Tom Penn, and Tony Thomas (producer).”

Source:

https://bostonrealestatetimes.com/two-boston-executives-elected-to-leadership-positions-of-st-jude-childrens-research-hospital/

5. Update the following sentence and remove source 18:

“In 2010 St. Jude Children's Research Hospital was named the number one children's cancer hospital in the U.S by U.S. News & World Report.”

To:

“In 2022 St. Jude Children's Research Hospital was named the second best children's cancer hospital in the U.S by U.S. News & World Report.”

Source:

https://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/pediatric-rankings/cancer

6. Add source to the following sentence:

“Peter C. Doherty, Ph.D., of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital was co-recipient of the 1996 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for work related to how the immune system kills virus-infected cells.”

Source:

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1996/doherty/facts/

7. Add source to the following sentence:

“St. Jude Children's Research Hospital won the 2020 Webby Award for Health & Fitness in the category Apps, Mobile & Voice.”

Source:

https://winners.webbyawards.com/2020/apps-and-software/general-mobile-ott-apps/health-fitness/123326/st-jude-childrens-research-hospital-patient-care-app

8. Add source to the following paragraph and remove citation needed tag:

“St. Jude also works with Le Bonheur Children's Medical Center, also located in downtown Memphis.[citation needed] St. Jude patients needing certain procedures, such as brain surgery, may undergo procedures at LeBonheur Hospital. Both St. Jude and Le Bonheur are teaching hospitals affiliated with the University of Tennessee Health Science Center. University of Tennessee physicians training in pediatrics, surgery, radiology, and other specialties undergo service rotations at St. Jude Hospital.”

Source:

https://www.highgroundnews.com/features/LeBonheurStJude071614.aspx

9. Add source to the following sentence:

“The Children's Cancer Center of Lebanon was established in Beirut on April 12, 2002. The center is an affiliate of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and works in association with the American University of Beirut Medical Center (AUBMC).”

Source:

https://arabamericannews.com/2013/05/24/St-Jude-Children%E2%80%99s-Research-Hospital-born-and-built-from-Arab-American-heritage/

10. Remove following sentence and add source to paragraph:

“In January 1964 the former presidential yacht USS Potomac was purchased by Elvis Presley for US$55,000. Presley then gave the Potomac to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, in Memphis, to sell as a fund raiser. The hospital was able to sell the yacht that same year for US$65,000.”

Source:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elvis-80th-birthday-10-fascinating-facts-about-elvis-presley/

11. Remove source 32 and add new source to the following sentence:

“As of 2012, 81 cents of every dollar donated to St. Jude goes directly to its research and treatment.”

Source: https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/magazine/millions-from-millions/

12. Add source to following sentence and remove citation needed tag:

“In November 2004, St. Jude launched its inaugural Thanks and Giving campaign which encourages consumers to help raise funds at participating retailers by adding a donation at checkout or by purchasing specialty items to benefit St. Jude.[citation needed]”

Source:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/melting-pot-of-partners-raise-millions-for-st-jude_b_59f18f22e4b078c594fa1557

13. Add sources to the following sentence:

“In July 2005, Kappa Alpha Psi (ΚΑΨ) fraternity announced St. Jude Children's Research Hospital as its national philanthropic partner. The fraternity has since raised over $3.1 million dollars for the hospital.”

Sources:

https://kappaalphapsirhotau.godaddysites.com/about-us#:~:text=In%20July%202005%2C%20Kappa%20Alpha,disease%2C%20and%20other%20catastrophic%20illnesses

https://www.stjude.org/get-involved/school-fundraising-ideas/college/greek-organizations/kappa-alpha-psi.html

14. Remove sources 49 and 50 and add new source to the following sentence:

“Lambda Theta Alpha became an official collegiate partner to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in 2010, aiming to raise awareness about childhood cancer and St. Jude in the Latin community, as well as fundraise for the hospital.”

Source:

https://lambdalady.org/about-us/philanthropy/#:~:text=In%202010%2C%20Lambda%20Theta%20Alpha,on%20a%20national%20philanthropic%20cause

Thank you again for all of your help! Please let me know if you have any questions or feedback regarding this request.

AliceStacey (talk) 14:42, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi @AliceStacey,

Sure. Here are my comments:

Request 1: Done

Request 2: Added commercial appeal source, but not primary St. Jude source

Request 3-10: Done

Request 11: Done with slight rewording

Request 12: Done

Request 13: The source that was provided is a blog, which also was primary, as it was run by a chapter of the fraternity. For these reasons I did not include, and instead put a citation needed tag, because the source already there does support the info, yet is primary (from St Jude). Looked myself but couldn't find a secondary. Changed figure $400,000 to $3.1 million, as it seemed to be outdated.

Request 14: Same problem with 13 in that the source is primary. Removed both the existing sources as requested, and added source requested, although also added the same citation needed tag because it should be secondary.

In my last reply to the COI Request 2 conservation, I listed out some sections that could use a rewording for neutrality. While that could still be worked on, it looks like quite a few of the requests made here were replacing primary sources, which is greatly appreciated!

As always, I will leave this COI request open until you can confirm everything's good.

Thanks-- Kingapresa (talk) 06:10, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Kingapresa!

Thank you so much again for your time and effort with another request, I really appreciate it! I would be comfortable removing the information surrounding request 13 and 14 entirely to also remove the citation needed tag. Sourcing for those two paragraphs is few and far between but can be readded in the future if proper sourcing becomes available.

With those two paragraphs being removed, would it be possible to then remove the primary source tag at the top of the page? I made sure to focus on sourcing for this request, and I am working on putting together a new request to address your feedback regarding neutrality to then remove the other two tags in the future.

Thank you again!

AliceStacey (talk) 20:04, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

@AliceStacey

Yes, I can see that proper sources for the given information aren't readily available and so it is best to remove the information. Perhaps reliable sourcing will come up in the future.

I went ahead and removed the information surrounding Kappa Alpha Psi and Lambda Theta Alpha and the sources that the information had.

Yes, I think the article is in a good enough place now to remove the primary source tag. Your edit requests helped greatly with that effort. While the article still relies on primary sources, it certainly does not heavily rely on them anymore. I know when I first starting looking at this article, the excessive reliance on St. Jude's own website was a considerable problem. Now, quite a lot of that reliance doesn't exist anymore. I have removed the references to primary sources tag. Although, another editor may disagree with me, and in that case, I would be open to discussion here on the talk page.

I'm glad another edit working on the neutrality is being worked on, I will wait for that to come through. I will close this edit request now. Thanks- Kingapresa (talk) 22:41, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Edit Request

Hi @Kingapresa @Throast

Thank you again for all your help so far. Here are the requested changes that target neutrality and weasel words! Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

1. In the intro paragraph remove the following sentence:

“St. Jude treats patients up to age 21, and for some conditions, up to age 25.”

Reason: Duplicate content as it is mentioned in the Hospital functions & effects section.

2. Remove the following sentences from the Awards and achievements section:

“St. Jude and over 46 of its staff members have been the recipients of numerous awards and achievements.”

“It has also been named one of the top 10 companies to work for in academia by The Scientist for 7 successive years.”

Reason: Remove for neutrality purposes and the first sentence is vague.

3. Remove the following paragraph from the Affiliated hospitals section:

“These sites are used as a means of referring eligible patients to St. Jude as well as a location to administer some care. Through the Domestic Affiliates Program staff at St. Jude work together and collaborate with those at the other institutions. Affiliated sites are expected to comply with standards set by St. Jude and are audited to ensure proper and quality care.”

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing. Source that’s currently cited is primary.

4. Remove the following paragraphs from the Funding section:

“In 2019, ALSAC raised $1.9 billion from donations, of which $975 million (51%) went to St. Jude. The rest of the funds were either spent on functional expenses for ALSAC or added to their fund balance, which totaled $5.7 billion at the end of 2019. In 2020, ALSAC raised $2.4 billion, of which $2 billion were from donations and contributions (84%). $997 million (42%) of this went to St. Jude. At the end of 2020, St Jude's fund balance was $8.03 billion. 74% percent of St. Jude's total budget comes from donations, and the hospital costs about $1.7 million per day to run.”

“All medically eligible patients who are accepted for treatment at St. Jude are treated without regard to the family's ability to pay. Families of patients at St. Jude do not pay for treatments that are not covered by insurance, and families without insurance do not need to pay for any expense. All families do not need to pay for travel, housing, or food.

Three separate specially-designed patient housing facilities—Tri Delta Place for short-term (up to one week), Ronald McDonald House for medium-term (one week to 3 months), and Target House for long-term (3 months or more)—provide housing for patients and up to three family members. These policies, along with research expenses and other costs, add up to approximately $1.7 million in operating costs each day.”

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing and neutrality.

5. Remove the following sentences from the Philanthropic aid section:

“To cover operating costs, ALSAC conducts many fund-raising events and activities. The WGC Invitational, a PGA Tour event, is one of the most visible fund-raising events for the hospital. “

“Other fund-raising programs include the St. Jude Math-A-Thon, Up 'til Dawn, direct mailings, radiothons and television marketing.^{[citation needed]}“

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing.

6. Remove the following paragraph from the Thanks and Giving section:

“Corporations give customers a host of opportunities to support St. Jude. The ultimate goal is to increase awareness with the hope that people will come to identify Thanksgiving with St. Jude, said Joyce Aboussie, vice chairwoman of the nonprofit's board. The official kick-off event for the Thanks and Giving campaign is the Give Thanks Walk. This event is a noncompetitive 5K that is now held in 75 cities across the country. Those participating in the race are encouraged to form teams, invite family and friends, and raise money for St. Jude. These walks have raised over $11 million to date.“ Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing.

7. Remove the following sentence from the Other funding initiatives section:

“One of the hospital's most recent and successful fund-raising efforts has been the Dream Home Giveaway.^{[better source needed]}“

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing.

8. Remove the following sentence the Other funding initiatives section:

“At various college campuses, some student organizations, fraternities and sororities raise funds in a program called Up 'til Dawn“

And replace with the following sentence:

“Up ‘til Dawn is a program in which college students raise funds for St. Jude.”

Source:

https://www.newhaven.edu/news/releases/2020/st-jude-top-5.php

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing.

9. Add source to the following sentence:

“Phi Mu Delta National Fraternity is partnered with St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.”

Source:

https://myfraternitylife.org/2020/02/25/phi-mu-delta-jams-for-st-jude/

Reason: Provide a proper third party source to remove the opinion tag.

10. Edit the following sentence the Other funding initiatives section from:

“Tau Kappa Epsilon (TKE) a Fraternity partnered with St. Jude, in the 1970s and 1980s to help raise money to fight childhood cancer.”

To:

“Tau Kappa Epsilon (TKE) a Fraternity partnered with St. Jude, announced a commitment in 2019 to raise $10 million in ten years.”

Source:

https://www.tke.org/st-jude/st-jude-history

Reason: Rewrite the sentence to support the new third party source.

11. Remove the following sentence the Other funding initiatives section:

“The fraternity renewed its link to St. Jude as its philanthropy of emphasis in 2008.“

Reason: Rewrite the sentence to support the new third party source.

12. Edit the following sentence the Other funding initiatives section from:

“Tri Delta supports St. Jude nationally and supports cancer charities at a local level. At the hospital in Memphis, the sorority donated the Teen Room for teenage patients to relax and spend time with each other. In July 2010, Tri Delta completed its "10 by 10" goal, raising over $10 million in less than four years, six years short of the original goal. Those funds were used to sponsor the Tri Delta Patient Care Floor in the Chili's Care Center. Upon completion of the "10 by 10" campaign, the sorority announced a new fundraising goal of $15 million in 5 years to name the Specialty Clinic located in the Patient Care Center. Three and a half years later, Delta Delta Delta had raised $15 million and completed its goal ahead of schedule.”

To:

Tri Delta has supported St. Jude nationally and sponsored the Tri Delta Patient Care Floor with funds raised in 2010.”

Reason: Reword to be neutral and properly sourced.

13. Remove the following sentence the Other funding initiatives section:

“Since that time, Kappa Alpha Psi has raised more than $400,000. At the 2008 ALSAC/St. Jude Board and Awards Dinner, Kappa Alpha Psi received the Volunteer Group of the Year Award for their efforts in the inaugural year of the Sunday of Hope program which secured more than 130 churches to participate and raised more than $280,000.“

Reason: Reword to be neutral and properly sourced.

14. Remove the following sentence the Other funding initiatives section:

“Another fundraising is the Country Cares for St. Jude Kids radiothon. During these events, country radio stations around the country allow those involved with St. Jude to share stories with listeners, who are encouraged to donate. The 200 stations involved have helped raise over $400 million since 1989.^{[citation needed]}“

Reason: Replace to be neutral with proper third party sourcing.

15. Replace the sentence above with the following in the Other funding initiatives section:

“The Country Cares radiothon fundraiser began in 1989. Since it started, more than 200 stations have participated and helped raise more than $400 million for St. Jude.”

Source:

https://www.ksnt.com/news/local-stations-taking-part-in-country-cares-for-st-jude-kids-radiothon/

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing.

16. Remove the following sentences the Other funding initiatives section:

“Country artists have also supported St. Jude through concerts, hospital visits, call-ins, and other forms of support.

Since 2001 the St. Jude Memphis Marathon has raised over $90 million for the kids and families at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. “

Reason: Remove due to lack of proper third party sourcing.

Thank you again for your feedback, time, and effort with these edits its greatly appreciated! Please let me know if you have any suggestions to further help with the tags and improve the article.

AliceStacey (talk) 17:39, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: AliceStacey, you haven't provided reasons for these changes. You may add a "Reason:" below each request and re-open the request by removing "|D|[see below]" from the template at the top once you've done so. Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 16:16, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Reply 1-JUL-2023

  Unable to review  

• Your edit request could not be reviewed because the provided references are not formatted correctly. The citation style predominantly used by the St. Jude Children's Research Hospital article is Citation Style 1 (CS1). The citation style used in the edit request consists of bare URL's. Any requested edit of yours which may be implemented will need to resemble the current style already in use in the article – in this case, CS1. (See WP:CITEVAR.) In the extended section below titled Citation style, I have illustrated two examples: one showing how the edit request was submitted, and another showing how requests should be submitted in the future:

Citation style

Bare URL reference formatting: The Sun's diameter is 864,337 miles, while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles. The Sun's temperature is 5,778 Kelvin. References 1. https://www.booksource.com 2. http://www.journalsource.com 3. http://www.websource.com In the example above there are three URL's provided with the claim statements, but these URL's have not been placed using Citation Style 1, which is the style predominantly used by the St. Jude Children's Research Hospital article. Using this style, the WikiFormatted text should resemble the following: Citation Style 1 formatting: The Sun's diameter is 864,337 miles,<ref>{{cite book|last1=Sjöblad|first1=Tristan|title=The Sun|url=http://www.booksource.com|publisher=Academic Press|date=2020|page=1}}</ref> while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles.<ref>{{cite journal|last1=Harinath|first1=Prisha|title=Size of the Moon|journal=Science|issue=78|volume=51|url=http://www.journalsource.com|date=2020|page=46}}</ref> The Sun's temperature is 5,778 Kelvin.<ref>{{cite web|last1=Uemura|first1=Shu|title=The Sun's Heat|url=http://www.websource.com|publisher=Academic Press|date=2020|page=2}}</ref> Which displays as: The Sun's diameter is 864,337 miles, while the Moon's diameter is 2,159 miles. The Sun's temperature is 5,778 Kelvin. References In the example above the references have been formatted according to Citation Style 1, which shows the author, the source's name, date, etc., all information which is lost when only the links are provided. As Wikipedia is a volunteer project, edit requests such as yours are generally expected to have this formatting done before the request is submitted for review.

Kindly resubmit the edit request below at your earliest convenience, taking care to ensure that it makes use of CS1. If you have any questions about this formatting please don't hesitate to ask myself or another editor. Regards,  Spintendo  17:36, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Notes

References