Talk:Silva Kaputikyan

A fact from Silva Kaputikyan appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 19 April 2015 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that poetess Silva Kaputikyan returned the medal awarded her by the Armenian president after a violent crackdown on an opposition demonstration?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2015/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Silva Kaputikyan.

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Nationalist POV in Political views section

Hello ZaniGiovanni, I would like to talk about your reversions in this article. Firstly, there are numerous Armenian armed struggles in history, and her views in the section represent the ASALA era. Second, "Her caustic response reflected the views of many Armenian observers", this is a comment made by the editor, we should use neutral sentences, such as: "Her response was" or "She responded". Third, giving no description about who Varoujan Garabedian was, will cause some confusion. Thank you and happy editing. Dijkstra (talk) 23:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think I explained my rationale here pretty clearly (which you didn't link). Regarding your points:

Firstly, there are numerous Armenian armed struggles in history, and her views in the section represent the ASALA

It's described as a “Struggle” in the reliable source cited^[1], hence no improvement in your change. It's also mentioned as struggle numerous times in the same book.

"Her caustic response reflected the views of many Armenian observers"

I'll think about this and give you my response, maybe a slight rewording is needed.

Third, giving no description about who Varoujan Garabedian was, will cause some confusion

No it will not, but this on the other hand (your edit) will:

"Kaputikyan was among the Armenian intellectuals who expressed their support of Varoujan Garabedian, the perpetrator of 1983 Orly Airport attack that killed 8 and injured 55 people at Turkish Airlines check-in counter."[1]

You edit misleadingly implied that Kaputkian supported the attacks, which is false and a clear violation of WP:NPOV.

Lastly, your title for this thread "Nationalist POV in Political views section" worries me. Consider this as a last and only warning from me, if this was not my first interaction with you this would go straight to ANI because: Unfounded accusations qualify as personal attacks. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 08:58, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you feel attacked? I'm sorry but the section contains nationalist views. The title "Armenian armed struggle" is just a rewording of the ASALA attacks. These airport attacks do not come to mind when such a title is used.

"Kaputikyan was among the Armenian intellectuals who expressed their support of Varoujan Garabedian, who was released from a French prison in 2001 and deported to Armenia." - this is the current sentence about Garabedian. Which mentions where and when he was released from prison but doesn't mention his crime.

I don't mean any accusations and these are my thoughts on the article. I didn't get involved in an edit war and came to talk page as you offered. I believe we can both get to an agreement over a final version of the article. Thank you. Dijkstra (talk) 22:43, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not change or modify the page without reaching WP:CONSENSUS, per WP:ONUS, WP:BURDEN.

When it comes to your changes: the poem she dedicated is for his whole life, not any specific part of it, and calling attention to the attacks gives the impression the poem endorses the attacks, which it does not. Please discuss here before changing the stable version and until consensus is achieved, thanks. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 09:21, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. I did not call any "attention to the attacks" in my last edit you reverted, which I believe you didn't have a time to read. I don't see how it violates any of the guidelines you mentioned. Please review it again, thank you. Dijkstra (talk) 16:57, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I made my last changes in accordance with our conversation above. I did not include the casualties, as you expressed it "gives the impression she endorses the attacks". Dijkstra (talk) 17:28, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We should keep it as Armed Struggle, as it's described as such in the cited book (above mentioned) and in her poem. I have no problem changing her response wording, but we might need to keep the "reflected by many Armenians" part. Tell me what you think, and I'll suggest the exact changes below. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 11:19, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your answer. The attacks are titled as "armed struggle" in Armenian sources. They are also titled "terrorist attacks" by other sources.[2][3][4] A title such as "militant activity" or "revenge attacks" would be neutral.

"reflected the views of many Armenian observers" part is unnecessary unless there are sources about Armenians showing their approval of her answer. Happy editing. Dijkstra (talk) 16:41, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And those sources you just linked have nothing to do with Kaputikyan. This article is about her and her views, not what me or you think. She describes it as a struggle in her poem, and related sources to her also describe it as a struggle. Hence, no need for your changes. It's already neutrally described in accordance to relevant source(s) to her and her poem itself. I'll add source for the 'observers' part later. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 17:00, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. I just made some small changes. Tell me if there are any parts you don't agree with, otherwise I believe we reached a consensus. You can add the part about the observers when you find the sources. Thank you. Dijkstra (talk) 23:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Kalaydjian, Tigran (2013). Sentinel of Truth: Gourgen Yanikian and the Struggle Against the Denial of the Armenian Genocide. Strategic Book Publishing. p. 63. ISBN 978-1625162717.

[1] Kalaydjian, Tigran (2013). Sentinel of Truth: Gourgen Yanikian and the Struggle Against the Denial of the Armenian Genocide. Strategic Book Publishing. p. 63. ISBN 978-1625162717.

[1]