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Talk:Robert F. Kennedy Jr. 2024 presidential campaign

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Recent Endorsements Inclusion Survey

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There have been several discussions on which people should and shouldn't be included according to the WP:ENDORSE criteria, and a clear consensus on the issue does not exist. Feel free to vote below on whether or not the statements of Lincoln Chafee, David Stockman, Stephen Peace, and others in regards to RFK qualify as endorsements. RickStrate2029 (talk) 03:16, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Although I will not edit the endorsements section personally until a consensus has been established. RickStrate2029 (talk) 03:20, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment RickStrate2029 stated that "a clear consensus on the issue does not exist." This is incorrect, as the consensus is laid out at Wikipedia:Political endorsements. The supplied sources do not meet that threshold, as has been explained multiple times by myself and another editor. A survey doesn't mean you can change the existing requirements. David O. Johnson (talk) 03:52, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. As already noted WP:ENDORSE is the consensus, and you still have not offered any substantive argument for why your sources meet this standard. After violating 3RR (5 reversions today by my count) you've moved on to refusal to get the point. Jamedeus (talk) 07:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No for Stockman and Chafee, neutral for Peace. I'm including the references.
The critera in WP:ENDORSE include both clarity of endorsement and independent coverage. One point of independent coverage is to establish that the endorsement is notable. If Joe Blow self-publishes an endorsement, but nobody cares, we don't treat it as encyclopedia-worthy.
  • No for Stockman. Stockman's essay[1] endorses Stockman's economic policy. In one paragraph he opines that RFK Jr. is the only candidate who could plausibly choose to campaign on Stockman's ideas. That's it.
This fails clear endorsement. Stockman never endorses any candidates, or even says he will vote for Jr. He never says Jr. has taken Stockman's advice and never engages with Jr.'s positions at all. The headline is deceptive in that Jr. is quite tangential to the article, mentioned only once. (I think it was me who added this reference to the wikipage. My mistake!)
  • No for Chafee. It seems all coverage comes from a laudatory quote sourced to an RFK Jr. campaign press release.[2] We don't have the context of Chafee's quote, which was used not as an endorsement but as an argument for including RFK Jr. in the debate.
This fails independent coverage and leaves clear endorsement unclear. An out of context quote published by the campaign itself for another purpose is far from adequate.
  • Neutral for Peace. I think Peace's essay[3] is unambiguous in endorsing Jr. He is "voting" for Jr. (in the headline), "supporting" Jr. in this election (in the body of the article), and the point of the article is to explain why in his view Jr. is the superior candidate to vote for. Even absent the word endorse I think it passes muster according to criterion 3.
I'm undecided about independent coverage. This endorsement may not be notable. I didn't find any news article Stephen Peace, former California politician, endorses RFK Jr. If the L.A. Times, e.g., had published Peace's essay, I think that would qualify to show that somebody cares about Peace's endorsement. What is unclear to me is whether the niche publication Independent Voter News suffices. Is it far-enough away from being a self-published source? I'm neutral.
That's all. I responded at length in part because I wanted to clarify my own thoughts. And I hope readers will see why WP:ENDORSE is the consensus, and in fact it is quite helpful for deciding. -- M.boli (talk) 12:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Stockman, David (August 4, 2023). "David Stockman on Why RFK Jr. is the Only Candidate Who Can Oppose the Uniparty System". Doug Casey's International Man. Retrieved 2024-07-23.
  2. ^ "Kennedy Exclusion From CNN Debate Stage Is 'Undemocratic, UnAmerican, and Cowardly'" (Press release). Kennedy24. June 20 2024. Retrieved 2024-08-04. {{cite press release}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  3. ^ Peace, Steve (June 7, 2024). "Why I'm Voting for Robert F. Kennedy Jr for President". Independent Voter News. Retrieved June 11, 2024.

Endorsement of Trump

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Per spokesperson reported from the AP “Mr. Kennedy has not endorsed President Trump,,” said spokesperson Stefanie Spear. “The filing was made by an attorney and not reviewed by the campaign.” She said the filing would be updated.https://apnews.com/article/rfk-jr-trump-speech-arizona-a2638f89ddcb5de03edbe4574ca17d45 2601:648:8101:BF90:F877:898:F7E:383 (talk) 19:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was announced by Kennedy himself that he endorsed Trump according to sources from the New York Times, NBC News, CNN and the Washington Post. I have added these links in my message, and with 4 sources including Kennedy himself backing up the claim that he endorsed Trump, it is worthy to be added ~ HistorianL (talk) 20:05, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Partial Suspension

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Idk if this was already discussed but why does it say "partial" in the infobox next to "suspended"? I thought he completely suspended it. GamerKlim9716 (talk) 05:00, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently he is not going to withdraw from states that are not swing states. (Plus he is on the ballot in some swing states regardless of attempting to withdraw.) --Super Goku V (talk) 06:35, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That said, the edit that introduced that was from an IP user with no explanation in their edit summary. Might be fair to remove on the grounds of causing confusion. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:27, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most reliable secondary sources I found outright say he suspended the campaign. [1][2][3][4][5][6]
He did file an appeal to get on the ballot in New York afterwards. But this AP article still said his campaign was suspended [7] A lawyer for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. asked a state appeals court Wednesday to restore him to New York's presidential election ballot, even though he has suspended his campaign. A state judge knocked Kennedy off the state’s ballot earlier this month, ruling ... Kennedy suspended his campaign less than two weeks later and endorsed Republican Donald Trump.
RFK himself said I want everyone to know that I am not terminating my campaign,” Kennedy said at his rally. “I am simply suspending it and not ending it.[8] JSwift49 12:26, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the main difference is the meaning of "suspending" versus "terminating." Per your last comment, I think it's more accurate to call it a "partial suspension." He is still on the ballot in non-battleground states. For example, he's on the ballot in Kansas, as of yesterday: [9] and he's also on the ballot in MN [10]. David O. Johnson (talk) 03:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I get your point, but that’s not how most sources describe it. In this scenario we should go with what most reliable secondary sources say, which is that he suspended his campaign, and then add context. To instead go with what we think is accurate seems like a WP:OR/WP:SYNTH issue.
Even the Minnesota article you linked says Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has suspended his campaign, but he’s still on the ballot in many states, including Minnesota. JSwift49 10:54, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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