Talk:Ritu Khullar

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Review: September 9, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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Ritu Khullar

Ritu Khullar – (page view stats • edit • talk • history) - (13) daily hits

(The Honourable Ritu Khullar Is the Chief Justice of Alberta) Lisha2037 (talk) 17:12, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:24, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ritu Khullar/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Lisha2037 (talk · contribs) 22:49, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 14:08, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks so much for the detailed review. I have worked on your comments; however, I would like to clear a few points.

1. "Looking at MOS:HONORIFIC, I don't think "Justice" should be included before "Khullar" in the lead, but let me know what you think." - In Canada judges are referred to as The Honorable Justice XXX. This is just not when addressing them or in speech, but also in writing. You can confirm this in legal documents drafted by the SCC. Of course, it is not necessary to do so in a Wikipedia article but I do not believe this to be an issue of the articles credibility or prose.

In that case, I think the first exception example at MOS:HONORIFIC applies, so OK. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2. "Is "student-at-law" (in the source) the same thing as "law clerk"? I'm not familiar with the term." - Yes they are used interchangeably in Canada. I used law clerk in the article so I could link to the Wikipedia page. Law clerk is only used when the articling is done for a judge, while student-at-law applies to both articles for judges and also law firms/organizations.

OK, thanks. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

3. I added the reference for the birthdate straight into the info box as that section is getting very populated with references.

It's preferred for refs to be in the body (see MOS:INFOBOXCITE), but having the reference there isn't a grounds for failure, particularly as it's done in the interests of readability. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

4. "Spot check on "at Fraser Milner Casgrain" = the firm is not mentioned in the cited source. That is because the firm has been renamed since she worked there. When she worked at it, it was named Fraser Milner Casgrain and is listed as Milner Fenerty in the source. Thought it was more transparent to use the name it was when she worked there as there has been a merger with another firm.

We'll need a source to confirm the change of name, otherwise there is a WP:V issue. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

5. La Crete is mentioned in her questionnaire as the francophone community she grew up in rural Alberta. The source is cited at the end of the paragraph.

Placement of the reference is fine now, but usually the citation immediately follows the text it's supporting (see WP:TSI). It would be acceptable to list multiple sources at the end of a paragraph (unless there are direct quotations or contentious material) but geneally statements should be supported by the following citation. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

6. "Spot check on " A proponent of the living tree doctrine and judicial activism, Khullar has advocated for the rights of various protected groups, ranging from those with a disability to those under the LGBT spectrum." - I don't think this is supported by the cited source - what part of the text were you referencing?" - This is a bit of a summary of a lot of things she has said throughout the whole source, which I know is long. Section 11 is probably most relevant. She mentions relevant human rights cases throughout (United Steel Workers of America, Local 5885 v. Sealy Canada Inc. (Bender Grievance) [2006] AGAA 8 and Vriend v Alberta, among others) and also says " A second, and more dominant theme of my work, is to promote and respect the rights of individuals at work and other contexts. Protecting and enhancing human rights, privacy and the dignity of individuals so they can choose to live their lives in ways that make sense to them, is my contribution to the law.

I'll have another look at this. WP:OR says that "Articles must not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that reaches or implies a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves". BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems OK. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

7.I prefer the awards listed that way as it seems more consistent with other judicial articles I have seen on Wikipedia. Lisha2037 (talk) 16:59, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, not grounds for a fail. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.

Happy to discuss, or be challenged on, any of my review comments. (It looks like the AFI template on the talk page has failed because you put "(Ritu Khullar)" rather than "Ritu Khullar".) Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:08, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Lisha2037. Thanks for your work on this article and for nominating it as a good article. My comments are below.

As the article stands, it fails criterion 2 of the Wikipedia:Good article criteria "Verifiable with no original research"; verifiability is particularly important when the article is about a living person - see Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Examples of statements without citations at the moment are "She was appointed Queen's Counsel in 2014."; "Khullar was appointed to the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta in 2017, and in March 2018, Jody Wilson-Raybould, then Attorney General of Canada announced Khullar's elevation to the Court of Appeal." and "On November 28, 2022, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced Khullar's appointment as Chief Justice of the Court of Appeal, replacing then Chief Justice Catherine Fraser." It looks like all of the info is supported by the sources listed, but the citations aren't all against the right statements.

Copyvio check

Earwig's Copyvio Detector shows some high matches:

50% with [edmonton.ctvnews.ca/ritu-khullar-appointed-chief-justice-of-alberta-n-w-t-nunavut-1.6172837 this]. Matches are either attributed quotes, or phrases acceptable per WP:LIMITED such as "Khullar was appointed to the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta in 2017"
45.1% with [canadianlawyermag.com/practice-areas/litigation/ritu-khullar-named-new-chief-justice-of-alberta/372139 this]. Same as above.
40.5% with [pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2022/11/28/prime-minister-announces-appointment-new-chief-justice-alberta this]. Same as above.

I reviewed the other matches, and it was the same.
No problematic instances found during spot checks.

Lead

Per MOS:LEADCITE, "the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material". Although having citations in the lead is not grounds to fail a GA nomination, the typical GA has all of the information in the body of the text and a summary in the lead, which means the lead does not require citations. I'd suggest repeating the info in the lead that is not currently in the body (e.g. "She is the first woman of South Asian descent to be appointed as a provincial chief justice in Canada.") and having the citations in the body. (Again, ignoring this suggestion is not something that would lead to a fail.)
Optionally, you could add into the body that Khullar never refers to herself as South Asian (see the Edmonton Journal source)
Looking at MOS:HONORIFIC, I don't think "Justice" should be included before "Khullar" in the lead, but let me know what you think

Early life and education

Spot check on "Khullar was born in 1964 in Fort Vermilion, Alberta to Punjabi teacher parents who emigrated from India, and was raised in the rural communities of La Crete and Morinville" - source does not verify all the details (e.g. 1964, Punjabi, La Crete are not mentioned) (Maybe you meant to use the Edmonton Journal source here?)
"and her father's Hindu." - maybe "and her father's was Hindu"?
"She also briefly lived in Jamaica from 1969 to 1972" - I'd omit "briefly".
"Role Model? It's not this judge's style". 2018-04-03. Retrieved" - incomplete citation, e.g. "Edmonton Journal" and the author's name are missing
Spot check on "She attended Old Scona Academic High School in Edmonton, graduating in 1981" - no issues.
Ref 6 "The Honourable Ritu Khullar". 2022-11-28. Retrieved 2024-05-16.) is incomplete - missing website
Ref 7 Canadian Lawyer Magazine s missing author and publication date
Ref 9 " "Ritu Khullar (LLB 1991) appointed Chief Justice of Alberta". University of Toronto Faculty of Law. 2022-12-06" has the wrong publication date (should be 2022-12-07)
Ref 13 " "2020 Lifetime Achievement Award". Women in Law Leadership. Retrieved 2024-05-17." - link is dead. I added an archive-url.
Spot check on "She received a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science, graduating magna cum laude from the University of Alberta in 1985, and a Bachelor of Laws from the University of Toronto Faculty of Law in 1991, and was admitted to the Bar of Alberta in 1992" - I don't see all of the details (e.g. years) verified in the cited source.

Career

Is "student-at-law" (in the source) the same thing as "law clerk"? I'm not familiar with the term.
Spot check on "at Fraser Milner Casgrain" = the firm is not mentioned in the cited source.
Spot check on "Justice Khullar was an associate and then a partner with Chivers Carpenter Lawyers from 2002 to 2009 and then managing partner from 2009 to 2017" - years not supported by the cited source.
The UNA source could be used to add a brief description of what the case involving them was about; and perhaps to also indicate that she acted pro bono in the Womens Legal Education and Action Fund case.
Spot check on "On her appointment, Trudeau said, "I wish the Honourable Ritu Khullar every success as she takes on her new role. She is a respected member of the legal community and brings a wealth of experience in multiple areas of law to the bench. I am confident Chief Justice Khullar will be a great asset to the people of Alberta, the Northwest Territories, and Nunavut." - supported by source.
Per MOS:QUOTE, I'd suggest "into plain and concise text" part of that quote. (e.g. Trudeau wished Khullar success and said that she was "a respected member....")

Hasn't been done. Do you disagree? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The teaching career section is very short. Maybe it could be merged with either Legal career or awards? See MOS:OVERSECTION
The Awards section would be better as prose rather than as a bulleted list in the middle of the article.
"South Asian Awards" - looks like this should be "South Asian Inspiration Awards" (in text and citation)

Jurisprudence

Spot check on " A proponent of the living tree doctrine and judicial activism, Khullar has advocated for the rights of various protected groups, ranging from those with a disability to those under the LGBT spectrum." - I don't think this is supported by the cited source - what part of the text were you referencing?
"The SCC Reimagines Freedom of Association in 2015" citation is missing the second author.
Link to ""Conceptualizing the Right to Privacy in Canada" is wrong.

Personal life

Spot check on "Khullar is married to constitutional lawyer and public servant Rob Reynolds with whom she has two sons" - source only mentions "Ritu" so is there another source using her full name?

General

MOS:ALLCAPS advises "Reduce newspaper headlines and other titles from all caps to title case"

Not done? Not a requirement for GA but it would be in line with the MOS. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will change it sorry sometimes those little things fly by me when I’m busy haha. Lisha2037 (talk) 06:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Randy’s Ute what exactly you Lemay but I believe it’s to shorten the quotes using consider language of my own. I’ll do that. Lisha2037 (talk) 06:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn’t sure

Lisha2037 (talk) 07:00, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image is CC (thank you!) and relevant.

@Lisha2037: A couple of outstanding points are above. I wasn't sure if you had gone through all my comments and made updates as you saw fit, or whether some are still pending. As mentioned, I'm happy to discuss. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I worked on the three outstanding points. Let me know it’s it’s ready for a pass. Lisha2037 (talk) 07:11, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like it meets the GA criteria now, Lisha2037. Thanks for your work on the article. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.