Talk:Monmouthshire/GA1

GA Review

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Nominator: KJP1 (talk · contribs) 09:51, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Tim riley (talk · contribs) 18:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Starting initial read-through. Declaration of interest: the nominator is a good friend of mine IRL, but I have had nothing to do with this article and will review strictly against the prescribed criteria.

Comments after first read-through

Truth to tell I wonder why this article is up for GA: FAC would seem to me the more suitable place, but be that as it may, here, just using the GA criteria, are my few comments. All are merely advisory and there's nothing on which I think I can or should insist, but I hope they are helpful.

• Lead

• "is a county in the south east of Wales" but "In the southeast is the Wye Valley AONB" and in the main text "south-east Wales in the Iron Age"" – here and throughout you could make your choice of two words, one word or one hyphenated word consistent for such geographical terms

• Pre-History

• "examples include important remains" – seems an odd phrase: what makes these remains more important than any others?
• "An major hoard of Bronze Age axes" – indefinite article could do with a tweak

• Roman period

• "The Roman conquest of Britain began in AD 43, and within five years they had reached the borders..." – "they" being the Romans, but that isn't, grammatically, what your sentence says

• Sub-Roman period

• "the Kingdom of Gwent was established" but later " The kingdom of Gwent frequently fought" – could do with consistent upper and lower case and so could the later "the Kingdom of Morgannwg... and its western neighbour, the kingdom of Glywysing". (And later still the Kingdom of England.)
• "Siting their capital at Caerwent, the settlement gave its name to the kingdom" – crashing dangling modifier.

• Industrialisation

• "in the South Wales Coalfield", but a para or so later "exploit the South Wales coalfields"" – more conflicting capitalisations

• Society, art and science

• "William Wordsworth committed it to verse; while Samuel Taylor Coleridge almost died there." – I'd be careful about "while" here: you just mean "and", I think, rather than that WW wrote and STC nearly died simultaneously.

• War

• "making it the second oldest regiment in the British Army." – another place where you might consider the consistency of your hyphenation.

• Gwent 1974–1996

• "Gwent voted heavily against the proposals" – and the proposals were...?

• Late 20th and 21st centuries

• "which have mainly ceremonial functions such as the Lords Lieutenant and High Sheriffs" – lords lieutenant and high sheriffs are not functions but functionaries. (Not sure about the capitalisation, either. I would, but would the MoS?)
• "The current Lord Lieutenant of Gwent from 2016 is Brigadier Robert Aitken. The current High Sheriff for 2023–2024 is Professor Simon J. Gibson" – looks a bit dodgy to me from the point of view of WP:DATED. Might be as well to future-proof the prose as much as possible by saying in year XYZ and ABC these gents were appointed. "Current" is perhaps pushing your luck.

• Biodiversity

• "very rapid decline in the 21st century due to river pollution" – In AmE "due to" is accepted as a compound preposition on a par with "owing to", but in BrE it is not universally so regarded. "Owing to" or, better, "because of" is safer.

On second thoughts, scrub that. It was a decline that was due to pollution, and so the phrasing is impeccable as it stands. Tim riley talk 13:04, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

• National representation

• "the incumbent, David TC Davies" – the manual of style would have this as "David T. C. Davies", with spaces and full stops.

• Demography

• "It remains one of the least densely-populated of Wales' principal areas" – very odd way of writing the possessive, here and later. This is from the current edition of Fowler: Names ending in -s: Use 's for the possessive case in names and surnames whenever possible; in other words, whenever you would tend to pronounce the possessive form of the name with an extra iz sound, e.g. Charles's brother, St James's Square, Thomas's niece, Zacharias's car.

• Employment

• "Employers are generally small" – about five foot five? It's their firms that are small.

• Built and landscape heritage

• "an abbey and a number of castles (and another "number of" later)" – this is a particular bugbear of mine. "One" is a number; so is "a million". Do you mean a few, loads and loads, or somewhere in between?

• Historiography

• "Among the first was William Gilpin's Observations on the River Wye and several parts of South Wales, etc. relative chiefly to Picturesque Beauty" – we've had the full title – all 17 words of it – earlier, and I suggest you consider abbreviating it this second time around to the first five words.

And now I look at it again, your upper and lower case don't quite work. Gilpin's title page is all in caps, which doesn't give us a steer, and WP's rule is to use normal title case for titles unless there is some compelling reason to the contrary. So the title, if given in full, should I think be Observations on the River Wye and Several Parts of South Wales, etc. Relative Chiefly to Picturesque Beauty, though I'm willing to negotiate. Tim riley talk 13:13, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

• Notes

• "Meoslithic footprints, dated to about 8,000 years ago" – spelling?

That's all from me. This article is plainly of GA quality and I offer the above suggestions merely for your consideration. I shan't bother putting the review on formal hold (unless you wish it) and so over to you ... Tim riley talk 20:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Tim riley - Tim, greatly appreciated. As ever, you have identified an embarrassing number (I refuse to say how many!) of my grammatical howlers. I think I've made all the necessary corrections in this edit, [1]. Can I trouble you to just review how I've dealt with the county's toffs. We now have:

"The title of Gwent continues as a preserved county, one of eight such counties in Wales, which have mainly ceremonial functions such as the lord lieutenancy and high shrievality. In 2024 the lord lieutenant is Brigadier Robert Aitken, appointed in 2016, and the high sheriff is Professor Simon J. Gibson."

Does that work? I note your kind comments re. FAC and shall give that some serious thought. I also note Dr. B's very fair point below, regarding the inadequacy of the lead. I shall look to address that shortly but, as a summation, I don't think it needs to hold up your review, unless you disagree. Many thanks again. KJP1 (talk) 18:22, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Comment: Looks great, but I think the lead needs improvement and to say something about culture, notable landmarks/buildings, education, health and sport to summarise the article.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:45, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

A very fair point. Will address over the next few days. And good to hear from you. All best wishes for the New Year. KJP1 (talk) 22:13, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Comment: Did you know.... that "Ogof Draenen, the second longest cave in Britain, located North of Blaenavon, was discovered in 1994?" lol Martinevans123 (talk) 10:34, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Your caves are in now! Happy New Year! KJP1 (talk) 22:14, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Promoting to GA

Your changes all strike me as advantageous. (I'm much taken with "shrievality", a word wholly new to me.) Dr B, who was my guide, philosopher and friend when I did my one and only geographical FAC, knows of what he speaks, and though the lead didn't strike me as inadequate it wouldn't harm to flesh it out further, especially if you are going to FAC in due course. All ways round it seems to me that the present text – with admirable illustrations – more than meets the GA criteria. On a final (for now) canter through I was chuffed to see that the wonderful Franco Taruscio's Walnut Tree is still going, under new management, though I think perhaps "contemporary" for Gilli Davies is ambiguous – contemporary with thee and me or with Lady Llanover? – but otherwise all looks tickety-boo to me. – Tim riley talk 19:12, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   Exceptionally well referenced

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   Well referenced

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   Well illustrated

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   Well illustrated

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

I found this an interesting and instructive article to review. It gives me much pleasure to affirm its GA-status. I hope you will take the article to FAC and if you do, please ping me. – Tim riley talk 19:12, 30 December 2024 (UTC)