Talk:MetroCOG

This is the talk page of a redirect that targets the page:
• Greater Bridgeport Planning Region, Connecticut
Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at:
• Talk:Greater Bridgeport Planning Region, Connecticut

This article was nominated for deletion on 18 October 2018. The result of the discussion was keep.

Naming

User:SportingFlyer recommends a name change for the article. I think WP:COMMONNAME is the operable standard here, which is clearly “MetroCOG.” This is supported by one of the citations in the article and by three secondary sources I found. If the page survives AfD, there should be a move discussion. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 09:14, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support. It is the official name per http://www.ctmetro.org/about-us/#.W8tMgN-YW1s, and it is the way such groups are typically done on WP such as EU or Comecon. I would also support Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments (MetroCog). Markvs88 (talk) 15:48, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support name change IF the article content focuses on the governmental body and does not focus entirely on the geographic subject matter. I believe the formal Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments is more informative then simply MetroCOG to the average reader. There are many Metropolitan Council of Governments. I propose that MetroCOG be a redirect to the article. Reasoning, per WP:COMMONNAME. Randomeditor1000 (talk) 15:10, 23 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support MetroCOG per AfD comment. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:14, 25 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support for Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments with a MetroCOG redirect. Not too fussed about the outcome, but it should definitely be renamed. I prefer precision to conciseness here as MetroCOG feels overly local. SportingFlyer talk 06:09, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 October 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. There is consensus to move, MetroCOG appears to be the most favourable in the discussion below with arguments including WP:COMMONNAME and officiality. (page mover nac) Flooded with them hundreds 11:31, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Metropolitan Connecticut → MetroCOG – Metropolitan Connecticut is a misleading name, and Metro COG is the best name for the article per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NAMINGCRITERIA. This policy serves readers who often access Wikipedia pages via search engines. User:SportingFlyer originally suggested a renaming. This fits well with my brief research on Metropolitan Connecticut. Searches based on “Metropolitan Connecticut” did not lead to meaningful results. In fact, this was the basis of JJBers claim that the subject was not notable. However, I started finding meaningful results when I used “MetroCOG” as a search key.

The COMMONNAME policy recognizes that subjects often have multiple names, and establishes a standard for choosing among those, “Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above.” (The five criteria are recognizability, naturalness, precision, conciseness, and consistency.) The original source of the article, the Metropolitan Connecticut web site,^[1]^[2] does not use “Metropolitan Connecticut” anywhere on the page. It uses “MetroCOG” and “Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments.” As “Metropolitan Connecticut” is not used in any of the sources cited, this name is clearly wrong, leaving just two names under reasonable consideration. All of the other sources use both of these names, but using “Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments” once in each article while using “MetroCOG” for all other mentions; therefore, both of these qualify under COMMONNAME. However, WP:NAMINGCRITERIA tips the scale in favor of “MetroCOG,” which satisfies naturalness, “one that readers are likely to look or search,” and conciseness. “MetroCOG” satisfies the other three criteria at least as well as “Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Goverments.”

To summarize, the current title is untenable according to COMMONNAME. “MetroCOG” and “Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments” both satisfy COMMONNAME, but “MetroCOG” is better based on NAMINGCRITERIA. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 12:28, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ http://www.ctmetro.org/ Metropolitan Connecticut website
^ https://www.ct.gov/opm/cwp/view.asp?q=383046 Regional Councils of Governments (RCOGs) in Connecticut

Request for comments @Markvs88, Randomeditor1000, Power~enwiki, SportingFlyer, JJBers Public, AirportExpert, Magnolia677, and Szzuk: Please copy and paste old comments into this move discussion section or write new comments if you have an opinion. Thank you, Oldsanfelipe (talk) 12:36, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I would prefer Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments (MetroCog), as it is more descriptive, but can get behind the official name of MetroCog,[1] as it is the customary style on WP such as EU or Comecon. Markvs88 (talk) 12:46, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Either "Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments (MetroCog)" or "MetroCog". Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 13:30, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Since I didn't realize that MetroCOG was also the name for this organization, I support moving the page to that name. —JJ B^e ^rs 13:54, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support any move over current title, propose ALT1: Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments due to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. MetroCOG again is a short branding nickname that is used by multiple government agencies.^[1]^[2] Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC MetroCOG is NOT a preferable move title and for that reason WP:NAMINGCRITERIA should not be used to support 'MetroCOG'. MetroCOG is equally meaningless to the average reader, who has no idea which Council of governments the article is referring to. Every metropolitan planning organization (MPO) in the US uses the term metro in their materials. Even this agency in it's own materials use the full Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments frequently. Randomeditor1000 (talk) 14:52, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support I support the move to "Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments", with a redirect to this page from "Connecticut MetroCOG".--AirportExpert (talk) 15:02, 26 October 2018 (UTC)AirportExpert[reply]

Comment: This article has several issues; there is no region known as "Metropolitan Connecticut", nor is there a single organization known as the "Connecticut Council of Governments". There is a "Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments", which is organization made up of town managers, mayors, and first selectman of several towns and cities in the Greater Bridgeport/Fairfield County area. The organization is also known as the "MetroCOG", and is one of nine councils of governments in Connecticut. The councils of governments article linked in the article is actually a summary of the nine individual organizations and the role they play in Connecticut governance. COG's in Connecticut provide similar services as counties in other states. –Zfish118^⋉talk 16:25, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Support for MetroCOG and Support "Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments (MetroCog)." User:Randomeditor1000 is correct that precision and naturalness are no longer in play if the name fails to distinguish itself from other topics, but they also greatly exaggerate the circumstances. What is at issue is the name "MetroCOG," not whether various agencies use names which include metro. A web search reveals exactly two agencies using the name "MetroCOG." The other agency is a COG from Fargo-Moorhead (ND and MN), which currently lacks a Wikipedia article. I contend that we can still use MetroCOG as a redirect to Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments (MetroCog). Redirects are easy to change. When someone creates a page for the Fargo-Moorehead COG, then "MetroCOG" can redirect to a disambiguation page. Policy prevents us from creating a disambiguation page to distinguish a red link. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is this all moot? The page under discussion is not "Metropolitan Connecticut." I made this assumption because the deletion discussion was made under that title. "Metropolitan Connecticut" looks like a redirect to Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments. Does anyone know the story? Oldsanfelipe (talk) 17:38, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It was moved by Airport Expert. —JJ B^e ^rs 18:20, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@AirportExpert: Move discussions should remain open for at least a week. Second, the editor making the moves should not an involved party. And no, there does not appear to be a consensus at this time. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 19:28, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies, I thought consensus was reached on this subject and it was okay to move the page at this time (since I was the one who named it "Metropolitan Connecticut" upon creation of the article). Should I revert this move until the discussion is closed?--AirportExpert (talk) 19:35, 26 October 2018 (UTC)AirportExpert[reply]

Moving discussion back to Talk:Metropolitan Connecticut. —JJ B^e ^rs 21:38, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support MetroCOG "Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments (MetroCog)" is inappropriate. We don't use disambiguation like this to include multiple names. While "Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments" might also work, "MetroCOG" is more WP:CONCISE. — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 21:23, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Question for @Insertcleverphrasehere: Given the Fargo-Morehead COG which also uses MetroCOG (primary and secondary sources), do we anticipate this concern, or do we just deal with the conflict when Fargo-Morehead COG article is created? Oldsanfelipe (talk) 21:43, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Oldsanfelipe: From searches on google, it appears that MetroCOG is the Commonname for this topic, and "Fargo-Moorhead Metro COG" is the commonname for that topic. This shouldn't be an issue. While Fargo-Moorhead Metro COG is sometimes referred to as "Metro COG", it is more commonly with "Fargo-Moorhead" as a prefix. — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 08:43, 27 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I found Metropolitan Church of God, link here: [2] as well as [3]. Markvs88 (talk) 14:24, 27 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Change back to Support for MetroCOG per reasoning of User:Insertcleverphrasehere. Naturalness, concision, and consistency are back into play. Oldsanfelipe (talk) 09:11, 27 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments with a redirect or disambiguation page at MetroCOG. The Fargo-Moorhead uses both Metro COG and MetroCOG, and typing in MetroCOG brings up more Fargo hits than Connecticut hits. I'm happy with a more concise disambiguation, but I don't mind the precision here. SportingFlyer talk 09:48, 27 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@SportingFlyer:, why not "Connecticut MetroCOG" then? We could have "Fargo-Moorhead MetroCOG", and a dab page at "MetroCOG" and "Metro COG". — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 21:47, 27 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'd support that. SportingFlyer talk 01:22, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Connecticut MetroCOG" would be a fictitious name. Locally, the organization is either called by its full name, or abbreviated name. –Zfish118^⋉talk 17:04, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Metro COG: Transportation Plan".
^ "MetroCOG". Fargo-Moorhead Council of Governments. Retrieved 26 October 2018.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Connecticut Metropolitan Council of Governments which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:50, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This message is incorrect. This page is the correct venue. — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 14:25, 27 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttp://www.ctmetro.org/ Metropolitan Connecticut website

[2] ttps://www.ct.gov/opm/cwp/view.asp?q=383046 Regional Councils of Governments (RCOGs) in Connecticut

[3] "Metro COG: Transportation Plan".

[4] "MetroCOG". Fargo-Moorhead Council of Governments. Retrieved 26 October 2018.

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[2]

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