Talk:Maria Anna von Genzinger

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.

Austria

	Austria portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Austria, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles about Austria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project.AustriaWikipedia:WikiProject AustriaTemplate:WikiProject AustriaAustria
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Women

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women

Children

She had five children? This is definitely not correct.--62.47.130.139 (talk) 12:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello 62.47.130.139. I'm puzzled here -- can you specify your source for this? Here is a source, H. C. Robbins Landon, that says five kids:

In 1789, Haydn began the well-known correspondence with Maria Anna von Genzmger. 1 Her husband, Peter Leopold von Genzinger, was a popular "Ladies' Doctor", whom the Empress Maria Theresia had raised to the nobility in 1780; in 1792, he became Rector of the Vienna Hochschule. For many years before that, he had been Physician in Ordinary to Prince Nicolaus Esterhazy, in which capacity Haydn must have become friendly with him. Genzinger 's wife, Maria Anna Sabina (1750-1793) was the daughter of Joseph von Kayser, Prince Batthyam's Court Councillor, and Maria Anna, nee von Hackher zu Hart, an old Austrian aristocratic family. She seems to have married Genzinger about 1772 and subsequently bore him five children, three boys and two girls.

This from his Collected Correspondence and London Notebooks of Joseph Haydn, currently accessible on line at http://www.archive.org/stream/collectedcorresp007831mbp/collectedcorresp007831mbp_djvu.txt.

Yours sincerely, Opus33 (talk) 15:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Robbins Landon certainly never saw Haan's Regesten or checked the church records of the Schotten parish. He simply copied the wrong information from the old literature. The Genzingers had six children.--Suessmayr (talk) 18:16, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the sourced edits you just provided. Could you also please source the diagnosis of "lung ulcer" for Mrs. Genzinger's fatal disease? Thanks, Opus33 (talk) 00:22, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again. Opus33 (talk) 02:30, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Genzinger's spelling

"According to Robbins Landon (1959, xxi), Mrs. Genzinger had trouble with German spelling; her orthography was "several grades more appalling than Haydn's". This is absurd. There was no "German spelling" in the 18th century!--Suessmayr (talk) 18:53, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What should she be called?

I'm not recommending any changes, just gathering data, I hope this is ok. I'm doing it on this page in case anyone else has a contribution. Of course, at first mention, everybody uses Mrs. Genzinger's full name so as to be informative; it's second mentions I'm looking at.

Karl Geiringer bio, 3rd edition (1982): "Marianne"
same bio, 2nd edition: "Marianne von Genzinger" at every mention, ducking the issue
Richard Wigmore, Haydn: "Frau von Genzinger"
James Webster, New Grove Haydn: "Mme Genzinger"
Daniel Heartz Haydn, Mozart, and Early Beethoven "Mme Genzinger"
David Wynn Jones, "Life of Haydn" (2009), "Genzinger"
Robbins Landon and Jones (1988): "Frau von Genzinger"

also:

Haydn: "Most valued, esteemed, and kindest Frau von Genzinger" (salutation in a letter, 14 March 1790)
Haydn, most of the time: "Your grace" = "Euer Gnaden", used as a second person pronoun

One other potential datum: I do suspect (from my reading of Jane Austen and George Elliott) that long ago, to use a bare last name was mainly for referring to servants -- in the 21st century we may think of it as respectful (especially for women), but in Mrs. Genzinger's time it might have been grossly insulting to use a bare last name to refer to a lady, particular one with a "von" in her name." Maybe someone knows if Austria was the same. I do have one datum: when the famously arrogant Nikolaus II addressed Haydn (who was by then eminent) as "Haydn", his thoughtful wife felt this was an insult and intervened.

So, what I'm saying is that WP uniformity is perhaps not the only priority; historical practice and sensitivity to the subject's own time and mores are also issues here. Other data and opinions on this issue are welcome. Opus33 (talk) 17:02, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]