Talk:Murder of Laken Riley

A Question Not Related to Content

Why does the search box on the front page offer no suggestions as I began typing "Laken Riley"? Why does the search box at the top of each page offer no suggestions as I began typing "Laken Riley"? Only after typing the full name are readers routed to page to select from persons with that name. Normally, when searchers begin typing a common name, a dropdown appears specifying the many names with qualifiers like linguist, actor, football, aviator, ect.

Why is this page so difficult for searchers to find? Unlike most of the pages on Wikipedia. Surely, this is not intentional. And can be easily remedied. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:6850:4750:8448:C24E:A0DA:BB40 (talk) 02:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Its probably because the article was recently moved --FMSky (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2024

Syntax and grammar is incredibly clunky throughout this *entire* page. Each section had issues. If someone is available to take a look, you'll see what I mean. I just created my account — stuck in that four-day probationary period. BlueMacadamianSalt (talk) 03:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 03:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Change title.

as the suspect was found guilty of murder, can we please call her tragic and senseless murder a murder now? Zefalls (talk) 16:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

W move Alexysun (talk) 05:02, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 20 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. WP:SNOW --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 18:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

---

Killing of Laken Riley → Murder of Laken Riley – José Antonio Ibarra has been found guilty of all charges, including felony murder, so the title should be moved appropriately. Sources: AP News, NBC News, CNN, CBS News, WTVM The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Obviously should be moved, I don't know what's there to discuss --FMSky (talk) 18:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Suspect

The article refers to the convicted killer as a "suspect" - he is no longer a suspect, but has been proven in court to be a murderer. Please change this.2604:3D09:C77:4E00:940C:11E1:1569:B000 (talk) 17:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 18:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

How he got to New York

don't forget to mention that the way he got to New York was through the mass immigration that was sent from Texas to northern states 47.161.52.45 (talk) 17:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I recently added the following:

On November 18, 2024, the New York Times wrote, "N.Y.C. Helped Migrant Accused of Killing Laken Riley Move to Georgia, Witness Says."

User:Aquillion deleted and commented, "see WP:HEADLINES; headlines are not generally good sources."

OK. That's an excellent point.

That being said, the info itself is notable, but even the archived version of the New York Times article only shows part of the article. I hope there's a reliable source that could be used, according to the wikipedia rules, to put this info back into the article.

The Last Hungry Cat (talk) 00:30, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2024

Augusta University is in Augusta, GA , not Athens GA. 2601:100:8600:2BD0:A911:E7EB:1320:7230 (talk) 01:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: She was in the Augusta University College of Nursing program at Athens. Hyphenation Expert (talk) 13:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Sentencing in infobox

@FMSky The civilian attack infobox does not have a sentencing parameter, and the verdict parameter is only for guilty or innocent, hence why I removed it. Doing it with the child infobox for event creates issues viewing it on mobile. This isn't any more notable for the sentencing than any other murder that happens, almost none of which use a sentencing parameter. There's really no reason to use it here, hence its removal. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I disagree and have reverted to show the sentencing by use of the embedded template. The impact on mobile view is small and insignificant, and probably on the devs to-do list. Please leave the status quo as it is. See also the discussion at Template talk:Infobox civilian attack#Template-protected edit request on 22 November 2024. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 00:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth People follow by example, and to include the sentencing here when it isn't in most other murders will encourage other people to add it to other pages, when this parameter has been deemed unnecessary for this template. What compelling reason is there to include the sentencing in this case when it isn't used for other crimes? The "status quo" lasted for less than a day. And "someone will probably fix it" isn't a great answer for unnecessarily introducing a garish visual error that no one has any interest in fixing. not everything needs to be added to the infobox. Transcluding a whole other infobox for one (!) parameter that we (apparently) have consensus to not use for crime articles is useless. And contrary to your edit summary, nowhere in this documentation does it say anything about a sentence parameter or transcluding a less specialized template to use it. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Going through the "What links here" for the civilian attack ibox proves that there are a good many articles that include the sentencing in their iboxes. Examples would be Kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart and My Lai massacre, so the sentencing in the ibox is appropriate, even important for WP readers. The documentation shows a method to embed other templates, which is how the |sentence= parameter or other parameters may be added to other iboxes. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 00:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth Then why not add it to the infobox, if it is used on so many pages, where it can be added to template documentation and standardized, instead of improperly used by transcluding a whole other template for no reason? Trying to edit the child template is not possible on the visual editor, as the template data does not work. But as you said, there is no consensus, so it should not be used, much like we had consensus to remove the "accused perpetrator" parameter but people keep adding it. That people format stuff incorrectly is not a sign they were doing it right the whole time. As an editor in this field trying to deal with a field that is exclusively available through a worse off less-specific less used template that 1) has no templatedata 2) won't work in the visual editor and 3) requires transcluding a whole other template for no reason 4) creates a garish visual error for most of our readers discourages its addition, compared to 0 benefit for adding it this way. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Maybe you could start an RfC over at Template talk:Infobox civilian attack regarding the inclusion of the |sentence= parameter. Some1 (talk) 14:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

And once again, no one will respond, because no one ever does. No point in wasting a month to get the same result as last time - no responses and then it gets bumped onto the talk archive. No one in the relevant wikiprojects cares about the templates. PARAKANYAA (talk) 20:59, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

MSNBC: "Laken Riley's killer never stood a chance"

Source from the internet archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20241122002957/https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/analysis/nursing-student-laken-riley-murder-guilty-jose-ibarra-rcna181256

MSNBC later changed the heading after people criticized it for allegedly showing sympathy to a convicted murder.

It is my understanding that wikipedia does not consider these sources to be reliable for news. However, I think they can be used to cite opinion, especially since the internet archive proves that MSNBC really did publish that heading.

Would it be possible to mention this in the article, perhaps in a reaction section, or a section that cites criticism of media coverage?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-headline-laken-rileys-killer-never-chance-sparks-backlash-absolutely-sickening

https://www.foxnews.com/media/after-backlash-msnbc-changes-headline-online-piece-claiming-laken-rileys-killer-never-stood-chance

https://www.yahoo.com/news/msnbc-alters-sickening-laken-riley-180213487.html

https://nypost.com/2024/11/22/media/msnbc-slammed-for-article-claiming-laken-rileys-killer-never-stood-a-chance/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14115989/laken-riley-msnbc-MAUREEN-CALLAHAN.html

The Last Hungry Cat (talk) 03:42, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

See also

@Therealslimfan: Regarding your three edits to remove Tibbetts and Nungaray from the 'See also' section[1][2][3], these are similar events and related in the sense that reliable sources: The Independent CNN Rolling Stone NBC, for example, all mention Riley's murder as well as Tibbetts/Nungaray's when writing their article(s). Some1 (talk) 15:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Dosen't change the fact that this is an obviously racist narrative and the motif behind the victim's murder is much more complex and is NECESSARY not to jump to dumb conclusions and actually SEE the motifs and problems that lead to this situation, not only is a matter for respect the victim (to understand what lead to her death instead of delusional takes) and other future victims that might experience harm by immigrants or most likely citizens. Therealslimfan (talk) 22:24, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I can see both arguments here - since basically the entire reason this murder is notable connects to how Ibarra's immigration status was sensationalized, it makes sense for the "See also" section to link to cases that share that aspect. That said, I think it might make sense to include Effects of immigration to the United States#Crime either alongside or instead of the individual cases of Tibbetts and Nungary, as that article provides more context to the overarching issue. The larger issue is that with how contentious the topic is, I've noticed pretty much all the articles even tangential to immigration have become bloated and sensationalized themselves. I'm more inclined to support retooling the article body (both of this article and the linked cases) to be less one-sided than to cut out the links altogether. Thesixthstaff (talk) 23:13, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I added two paragraphs that relate Riley's death to three other ones (including Tibbetts and Nungaray's) to the #Tributes and media attention section, so the See also links to Tibbetts and Nungaray are no longer necessary. (Unless my recent addition gets reverted for whatever reasons, then yes, those two links should be added back to the See also when that happens. A link to [[Effects of immigration to the United States#Crime]] isn't controversial so that would fine alongside Tibbetts and Nungaray's links.) Some1 (talk) 01:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

New York Times ABC News CBS News Some1 (talk) 21:29, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Undue

The notability of this case is entirely due to it's politicization by the MAGA crowd, yet that is the aspect that's barely even touched on.

Wikipedia does not have a full article for every single murder that has ever occurred in the history of the world, only the ones that are extensively covered by reliable sources due to particular aspects that make them notable. The murder of Laken Riley would be just another one of the many, many murder cases that occurred in 2024, if the Trump campaign didn't exploit it for political gain.

That is what they have done, they have been extensively criticized and condemned for it, and both their actions and the condemnation has been widely covered by reliable sources. So why does the Wikipedia article not reflect this objective reality? 46.97.170.199 (talk) 14:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

If this aspect of it has been covered this much according to you, do you have any sources of your own backing up your word? Harryhenry1 (talk) 11:41, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree! Harryhenry1221 (talk) 14:11, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

And if not, the article can be deleted as non-notable. 46.97.170.199 (talk) 11:09, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I added a paragraph about this a couple of days ago to the article (attributed to the Rolling Stone using this article [4]), but it was removed due to WP:ROLLINGSTONEPOLITICS (makes sense, I guess). I've now just added a sentence regarding the usage of Riley's death (among others) by the Trump campaign using an ABC News source. Some1 (talk) 22:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

You know it's funny, but this past summer we had an extremely lengthy, month long NPOV discussion about this very issue, archived here[[5]]. My position was essentially identical to IP's, but after all that deliberation, nothing ever came of it. We were supposed to submit drafts for an Rfc, but only two of us showed up to do that, and it just fizzled out to nothing. Jonathan f1 (talk) 07:37, 12 December 2024 (UTC)