Talk:Kevin Lilliana

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kevin Lilliana article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group.

Indonesia Mid‑importance

	Indonesia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indonesia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Indonesia and Indonesia-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IndonesiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndonesiaTemplate:WikiProject IndonesiaIndonesia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Beauty Pageants Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Beauty Pageants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of beauty pageants, their contestants and winners on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Beauty PageantsWikipedia:WikiProject Beauty PageantsTemplate:WikiProject Beauty PageantsBeauty Pageants articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Fashion Mid‑importance

	Fashion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fashion, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Fashion on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FashionWikipedia:WikiProject FashionTemplate:WikiProject Fashionfashion articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles

Inline citations needed

There are numerous anons and editors in this article that appear to have similar editing patterns and possible socks. The issues (unsourced materials, sources did not contain the materials added, not a valid source, promotional materials) are not being addressed and the sources (other than Facebook and personal websites) did not contain the materials that are persistently added other than Facebook and personal websites. The article contains wording that promotes the subject in a subjective manner without imparting real information. The article needs inline citations for verification.

Gadjah Mada and other editors have added clusters of information but did not show inline citations from third party reliable sources. It was pointed out that every material (sentence)added, a reliable sources must be added. It's not accepted to add clusters of information then provide clusters of sources in the end. On Wikipedia, an inline citation refers to a citation in a page's text placed by any method that allows the reader to associate a given bit of material with specific reliable source(s) that support it. Inline citations should be placed at the end of a sentence. See WP:CITE on how to add sources. Notable sources such as GMA, CNN (using google translate), ABS-CBN were cited but non of these news websites contained the materials added in the last paragraph. Unsourced material will be removed. Do not revert unless theses issues were addressed.-Richie Campbell (talk) 14:19, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

Kevinlilliana.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:22, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Should the image already be deleted by now? Whom should we consult for the decision to delete said image? Thanks.

Migsmigss (talk) 23:18, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of Vandalism and User:114.5.145.221's Invalid Deletion of Sufficiently Referenced Information on the Kevin Liliana page

Hi, User:114.5.145.221. Welcome to Wikipedia! Please, when you do edits, please provide legitimate sources and references from reliable news/media outlets/outfits/companies before employing/finalizing said edits.

Please provide reasons and sources and references why you needed to delete at least 5 paragraphs of sufficiently sourced and referenced content. Possible candidate for Vandalism and banning. Thanks.

See http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Special:Contributions/114.5.145.221

Migsmigss (talk) 23:14, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jjj1238's "Minor Fix" Edit

Hi, Jjj1238. I have reverted your edit (http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Kevin_Lilliana&oldid=922240390) because you have deleted that she is Chinese-Indonesian, not Indonesian as is. Her parents are Chinese immigrants. Thus, she is Chinese-Indonesian. These are duly provided with sources and references. You also tagged your edit as "minor fixes" yet you have changed her nationality, without providing sources and references to refute the already established one backed with sources and references? Does that constitute only a "minor" edit?

I agree with some of your edits, but not on this one. And certainly I don't agree with your edit tagged as "minor" when you changed her nationality without any reason and further references, from the already duly established one backed by sources and references.

I acknowledge that you have been quite a seasoned contributor on Wikipedia, thus I am quite puzzled why you right away changed an already established information backed with sources and references, an important detail such as nationality, and then tag it as "minor fix?"

Bizarre and quite puzzling. Certainly not a "minor fix."

23:50, 20 October 2019 (UTC)Migsmigss (talk)

@Migsmigss: I have answered your concerns on my talk page. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 23:55, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jjj1238 I've replied there. But I think I will transfer it here, since the subject in question is Kevin Liliana:

Migsmigss (talk) 23:44, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Migsmigss: Please understand that nationality and ethnicity are not the same thing. The lede should not include their ethnicity unless they are notable for something having to do with that specific ethnic group (Section 3 of lead section in a biography: Context (location or nationality) – not ethnicity, Indonesian is Lilliana's nationality, Chinese is her ethnicity). To give you an example, Selena Gomez is an American musician, she just happens to be of Mexican descent. She is not a Mexican-American musician because her contributions to music have not had anything to do with her Mexican ancestry, and she does not have an established career specifically in Mexico. It is the same thing with Lilliana. She is an Indonesian of Chinese descent. Her modeling/pageant career has nothing to do with her Chinese ancestry, and she does not have an established career specifically in China. Her Chinese heritage should be referenced in the article, but not as her nationality. I hope this helps your confusion. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 23:52, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for replying, Jjj1238. I take your reply but it does not resolve the issue, which you have commenced. Her nationality, as defined by jus sanguinis and her birthplace, is Chinese-Indonesian, not simply Indonesian. The sources and references provided also support said information. Now:

1. You have tagged your edit as "minor fix" but you right away deleted information on nationality, an important detail on any Wikipedia page/article on people, without any valid reason and/or any credible sources/references to support your action, and refute the previously provided information backed by legitimate sources and references? Please explain.

2. Besides deleting the nationality, you tagged your specific edit as "minor fix" but you did not indicate that it is a minor edit. There is a confusion there. Which is it? Why describe it as "minor fix" when you did not tag it as "minor edit;" otherwise, if you wanted to tag it as minor edit, why described it (redundantly) as "minor fix" -- but well, it wouldn't be minor in my opinion since again, you deleted and changed the subject's nationality without any valid reason backed by sources and references to refute the previously already established information?

3. Why not "Chinese-Indonesian" when we allow other people who have careers in one specific country or region to be established, for example, as "Spanish-Filipino" Enrique Iglesias, or "Timothee Chalamet" who is French-American (still a debate over there), and other subjects of note?

If this is the case, then should we require more sources/references on the legitimate nationalities of subjects, for example their birth certificates, passport(s), etc?

4 Following this, should we establish a difference between, for example, a. French-American and b. of both French and American citizenship?

For example, Catriona Gray, she is established to be "Filipino-Australian," should we then be more specific and establish that she is of dual Filipino and Australian citizenship? We can do that. I think it would be more specific. As, even the definition of "Filipino-Australian" on Wikipedia does not describe Catriona:

"Filipino Australians (Filipino: Pilipino-Australyano) are Australians of Filipino ancestry. Filipino-Australians are the fifth-largest subgroup of the Overseas Filipinos. According to the 2016 census, there are over 232,386 Filipino Australians."

They can be interpreted as Australians who live in Australia but can be full Filipino in ancestry, which is not Catriona, of course.

5. Thus, coming from these discussions, should we, finally, be more specific and include nationality or nationalities, and ethnicity or ethnicities?

Thanks.Migsmigss (talk) 00:07, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jjj1238. Let's discuss here, since the subject in question is Kevin Liliana, it is more appropriate that we discuss here. Thanks. I will be replying to you here.

Migsmigss (talk) 00:10, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jjj1238. I will be off Wikipedia for several hours. Real life calls. But I'll be looking forward to your reply as regards my enumerated clarification requests above. Thanks. Have a good evening/day, wherever you are. Migsmigss (talk) 00:24, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is this is not the same thing as Catriona Gray. She was born and raised in Australia to one Filipino parent, and then pursued a career in the Philippines. If she competed in Miss Universe Australia and represented Australia at Miss Universe, she would not have a claim to being an "Australian-Filipino" person on Wikipedia, simply an Australian of Filipino descent. I cannot speak to the Enrique Iglesias claim especially considering I do not know much about him, and as you can see Timothée Chalamet is referred to as purely an "American actor." We do not assign clarifications based on citizenship because in all honesty, we have no idea in what countries an individual is a legal citizen. Your claims to Lilliana holding Chinese citizenship are also void because China and Indonesia both do not recognize dual citizenship. Additionally, I have looked through the sources provided on the article and none of them address the claim that Lilliana was born to Chinese immigrant parents, which brings to attention the idea that it's much more likely she is a member of the Chinese ethnic minority in Indonesia, much like how Paweensuda Drouin is part of the Chinese ethnic minority in Thailand, and is deemed purely a Thai model because of which. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 00:25, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply, Jjj1238.

So we are now going to cite national laws. How do you define citizenship then on Wikipedia, based on national law, jus sanguinis, description of established citizenship or citizenships, or all of the aforementioned?

Also, again, please explain/give your clarifications on the points I have previously raised which I believe you have not yet addressed:

1. You have tagged your edit as "minor fix" but you right away deleted information on nationality, an important detail on any Wikipedia page/article on people, without any valid reason and/or any credible sources/references to support your action, and refute the previously provided information backed by legitimate sources and references? Please explain.

2. Besides deleting the nationality, you tagged your specific edit as "minor fix" but you did not indicate that it is a minor edit. There is a confusion there. Which is it? Why describe it as "minor fix" when you did not tag it as "minor edit;" otherwise, if you wanted to tag it as minor edit, why described it (redundantly) as "minor fix" -- but well, it wouldn't be minor in my opinion since again, you deleted and changed the subject's nationality without any valid reason backed by sources and references to refute the previously already established information?

5. Thus, coming from these discussions, should we, finally, be more specific and include nationality or nationalities, and ethnicity or ethnicities?

5.a. Should we then try to discuss this with other editors, and sort of convene? Should we raise how to create uniformity on establishing citizenship and/or citizenships?

Should we be more specific and finally establish the difference of say, for example, Catriona Gray, from "Filipino-Australian" to "of dual Filipino and Australian citizenships?"

I am raising these questions because the definitions of say "Filipino-Australians" or "Filipino-American" do not apply to people of both Filipino and Australian/American citizenships who are neither in Australia nor in the United States, but in the Philippines.

Looking forward to your replies; each on the enumerated clarifications, please. Thanks.Migsmigss (talk) 00:39, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You are looking too much into this. Nationality is more based on allegiance since we cannot determine legal citizenship of every individual (not to mention Lilliana clearly does not even hold Chinese citizenship). I wrote "minor edits" because they all should have been minor edits. By Wikipedia standards Lilliana is not Chinese, she is an Indonesian of Chinese heritage. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 21:46, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm traveling right now. Will get back to this soon. As this has not been resolved completely, obviously. Especially on "minor fix" not tagged properly as minor edit. Thanks.Migsmigss (talk) 07:11, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-Protection Request: Kevin Liliana

Kevin Lilliana (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Temporary semi-protection: Persistent disruptive editing by unconfirmed/external IPs. Migsmigss (talk) 00:21, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just a heads up, this is not how you request page protection. You do so here, but don't worry because I already submitted a request for Lilliana. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 00:27, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Jjj1238. I admit I am not as well informed as you are on Wikipedia. So thank you for the assistance. I also tried it on that page but it was refused.

Again, thank you for the assistance, and for the information on how to correctly apply for semi-protection. I hope to be informed by you on our discussion yet to be resolved re: Kevin Liliana. Looking forward to hearing from you. Thank you so much. Migsmigss (talk) 00:30, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Kevinlilliana.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:36, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Kevin Lilliana Junaedy for Indonesian Food and Drug Authority.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:59, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fix the spelling of the subject's description please

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Fix the term "Indonesian" and also the spelling of the word "Muslim" instead of "Moslim". 136.158.40.58 (talk) 05:54, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done, or at least I fixed a broken piped link and one "moslim". If there are others please be more exact where. --Mvqr (talk) 10:41, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:08, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Indonesian Government Image - Miss International 2017 Kevin Lilliana Junaedy With Governor of West Java Ridwan Kamil.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:08, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Delegates of the Miss International and Fumiaki Matsumoto 20171122 (cropped).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:23, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]