Talk:Kanye West/Archive 10

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Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs has an RFC

Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs has an RFC for the use of radio station/networks' playlists being cited in articles. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Heartfox (talk) 00:00, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Suggested addition 2021

In 2021 Forbes added him to its annual World’s Billionaires List, citing his Yeezy contract as significant.

Added this. Solipsism 101 (talk) 18:29, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 6 May 2021

In the opening paragraph there should perhaps be a space after the comma after hip hop music. 172.101.34.144 (talk) 13:40, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:51, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Why is this delisted as a good article?

Why is this delisted as a good article? What are the issues with it? Voraciousdolphin (talk) 19:02, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Voraciousdolphin, see Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Kanye West/1 – Muboshgu (talk) 19:30, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2021

Change the first image that appears, the image chosen is of terrible quality and does not picture Mr. West accurately. 2601:404:D100:1190:30D9:82F8:F74B:154F (talk) 01:45, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done – Muboshgu (talk) 02:19, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Orator?

Should Kanye West be mentioned as an orator in the overview? He has become known for his public statements/rants at concerts and other events — Preceding unsigned comment added by Historybufffanatic2005 (talk • contribs) 19:02, June 19, 2021 (UTC)

No. He's no Cicero. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:29, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Donda-Mercedes-Bendz-Stadium.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:54, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 July 2021

Add a line in the 2010-2012 section about his feature on the song E.T. by Katy Perry. 78.17.255.227 (talk) 14:05, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:11, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2021

Change Clark Atlanta University to Morris Brown College. 96.91.154.65 (talk) 14:55, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:03, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Genre consensus

The genres keep changing and I think we should reach a consensus on the genres. There are a lot of genres we could list so I think we try to keep it a general as possible. Here's what I suggest:

Hip hop, pop, experimental, electro, and also maybe soul.

These genres are all sourced and they seem to cover everything if you look at all the genres listed on his albums. I would like to here what others think about this. Bowling is life (talk) 21:13, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

I like the current arrangement, all of which seem broad-enough as genres to me, and sourced well-enough in the article: Hip hop, progressive rap, pop, art pop. "experimental, electro, and soul" do not broadly describe West's music, since his music is generally within the confines of "pop" song structure (cf. experimental) and is neither vocally-deadpan (electro) nor -shouted (soul), although perhaps a well-sourced analysis could convince me otherwise. Piotr Jr. (talk) 20:06, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I have often seen in analysis of his music that he straddles the line between progressive and mainstream sensibilities, usually in the realm of rap and pop, so from that impression I gather those four I highlighted to be apt for the infobox. Piotr Jr. (talk) 20:10, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2021

Kanye west has officially renamed himself ye 24.98.140.184 (talk) 22:36, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:14, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Doctorate

Is there a reason Kanye West is not referred to as Dr. Kanye West? Corona1112 (talk) 18:45, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Because he's not a doctor. He has an honorary doctorate. That's not the same thing. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:53, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Earlier this year, his initial wiki lines at top of the picture has 'He's been influential in 21st Century development of hip hop,Pop,R&B & popular music in general'

Why these lines have been removed??!

Ye is definitely one of the most important and musically influential artists of 21st Century. What the heck is wrong with Wikipedia editors? I don't understand. Globglabglob (talk) 08:22, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Kanye West

Ye is one of the influential and critically lauded artists who's been credited for development of 21st Century's Hip Hop and popular music in general. Globglabglob (talk) 08:13, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Yess he is. Globglabglob (talk) 08:15, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

These lines should be on the top of his picture. Someone had removed. Globglabglob (talk) 08:27, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Proposed page rename (August 2021)

Hi. My understanding of Wikipedia policy and practice is to generally refer to a subject by the subject's preferred name. Given <https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-music-arts-and-entertainment-courts-hip-hop-and-rap-2322f3f9f8b118334e3eb4149de4010f>, it seems like this page should be renamed to Ye (musician) or Ye (artist) or Ye (rapper) or similar. Perhaps even Ye. This is inline with our treatment of other artists who use mononyms including Madonna, Rihanna, Usher (musician), and Adele. Thoughts? --MZMcBride (talk) 05:36, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Kanye West is still his stage name and what most people know him as. Alenaphoenix (talk) 10:00, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

I think the page should remain "Kanye West" until such time that he is professionally known as "Ye", but once the legal name change goes through, the opening should still state his name correctly:

Ye (born Kanye Omari West, June 8, 1977), known professionally as Kanye West, is an American rapper . . .

This is in accordance with the established practice of the initial reference in an article being to the subject's legal name. Another example of this is Lisa Bonet. Jumper4677 (talk) 20:15, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

We can change the lead sentence as you suggest, but I don't support moving the page, if that's what this is asking. Kanye West is his WP:COMMONNAME. I don't think it's uncommon for someone to change their name and Wikipedia doesn't follow suit (see Mos Def for instance). – Muboshgu (talk) 20:40, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure we need to wait for the legal name change to fully process in order to update the first sentence. I also wonder whether we should change the infobox and inline references throughout the article (West --> Ye).

I'd forgotten that I'd participated in a similar discussion about Cat Stevens in 2016. I've also examined cases such as Typhoid Mary and Jihadi John. I continue to re-examine these cases as publication norms and societal norms shift. While different cases than the one being discussed here, Wikipedia was quick to update articles for subjects such as Caitlyn Jenner and Chelsea Manning. Asking a court to formally change your name seems like a clear preference by the subject that we should perhaps aim to respect, though I understand every subject is different. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:35, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia has definitely taken a different stance with transgender individuals. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:54, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I’m guessing since Ye has been approved as his legal name, it should now be listed as such. KD0710 (talk) 23:20, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

We can include it. But if you mean moving the page, I disagree. See Lisa Bonet, Mos Def, Cat Stevens as examples of people whose page name is still the WP:COMMONNAME despite them changing their names. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:41, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

I don’t think a page move is appropriate as people still primarily know him as Kanye West. But it should be listed in the opening text. KD0710 (talk) 00:50, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Occupation

I know we're kind of all focused on the name change at the moment, but someone removed virtually all of Ye's occupations except for rapper and I'm unsure whether it was necessary to be this drastic. The user who made this change mentioned the following NoWiki note as justification:

"This is sourced. 'Rapper' is used because he is mainly known as a rapper, 'musician' is vague, and sources do not usually refer to him as a musician. Per MOS:ROLEBIO, please do not stuff this lead sentence with his lesser-known occupations. The infobox lists the rest."

While I do agree that the previous version was a little cluttered, I believe it's important to at least mention he's a record producer. He rose to prominence by producing for other people (see The Blueprint, for example) and only later embarked on a solo career; the first paragraph explains exactly that. His achievements in fashion have also been widely covered by secondary sources and are mentioned in the second paragraph, so it might also be worth adding back. Moreover, the sources used don't match the NoWiki text: Star Tribune is the only source to refer to him exclusively as a rapper. Billboard doesn't use any neutral descriptors; Ye is exclusively referred to as a "hip hop superstar" in this article. Biography opens with "Kanye West is an outspoken Grammy Award-winning rapper, record producer and fashion designer." I believe that the Biography formulation would be a good middle ground between the clutter of the previous version and the incompleteness of the current one.

@Natg 19: I may be pinging you, since you are the user who made the change, but I want to make it clear that this is not a personal callout; I simply would like to discuss your change both with you and with the wider community. Thank you for your time. Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 02:28, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

References

I would imagine that his occupation has been discussed, because somebody went to the trouble of writing that hidden note. Does the talk page archive have any consensus on what to list his occupation? Whether or not it does, I imagine it could call for an RfC to settle on one version. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:55, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2021

Rather than "Kanye Omari West, also known as Ye", "Ye, formerly known as Kanye Omari West" would be more appropriate, seeing as Ye's name has been legally changed. As it currently stands many would surmise that his current name is still Kanye Omari West which may mislead, whilst the proposed change is more accurate, up to date, and makes it clear that a name change has taken place, whilst also respecting Ye's legally confirmed decision. As an example, it would be seen as inaccurate and crude if on another page "Bruce Jenner, also known as Caitlyn Jenner" would be written. Thank you. 94.173.189.114 (talk) 23:42, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Appears to be already partly done in some form. "Ye (born Kanye Omari West)" is what the article says. --Ferien (talk) 06:12, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 22 October 2021

Change Kayne West to YE, and add a section informing people about his name change. Zentuz (talk) 03:35, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please see discussion above — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:46, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 22 October 2021 (2)

Change the part that says that Kayne West’s Christian faith is a publicity stunt. Change it something to that states his Christian faith and acknowledges it instead of saying that it is fake.

In the article about Kayne West it says that Kayne’s Christian faith is just a publicity stunt even though Kayne has never said that it was. I feel as if it’s unfair to Kayne saying that his Christian faith is just a publicity stunt when really he hasn’t said that it is and also he made a Christian album named after and dedicated to his mom who had passed away earlier. The change that I am requesting is to change or get rid of the part that says that Kayne West’s Christian faith is a publicity stunt. Instead change it to something that is more reasonable and something that acknowledges that Kayne West has a Christian faith. Thank you. 107.116.7.55 (talk) 19:12, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: nowhere in the article does it refer to his Christian faith as a publicity stunt. The article mentions that his 2020 presidential run may have been a publicity stunt, but that's all I see. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:02, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Full protection

The edit warring over the subject's name over the last couple of days has been ridiculous, and has involved extended confirmed users as well as IPs and new accounts. I've fully protected the article - come to a consensus on talk, and make an edit request once it has been reached if the consensus is to change from the current version. Girth Summit _(blether) 21:27, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

@Girth Summit Is there a consensus that was reached before the protection change or did you do it on your own discretion? deity 05:09, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

I protected the page using my own discretion, as an uninvolved administrator, in accordance with the protection policy. Girth Summit _(blether) 05:35, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Girth Summit, full protection just expired. Do you mind reinstating indef semi-protection? I could myself, but I'm WP:INVOLVED and would rather not. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:44, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Girth Summit _(blether) 05:08, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Infobox image

2009 image

2019/2011 image

uncropped version for reference

Coachella 2011 image

The infobox image has been stable as a photo of West from 2009 for quite some time but has recently gone through a few changes to more recent photos. First it was updated to a photo that was titled "Kanye West in 2019". However, Mist6820 questioned whether the photo was actually from 2019 saying "There is no way that is from 2019. Possibly from 2011-12." Upon searching a bit I found a tweet by Bankulli which seems to suggest that the uncropped version of the image is indeed from 2011 [1] and a similar image showing West and Jay-Z wearing the same clothes in the same room which is dated as from 2011 too [2]. The image has also been changed a few times to a photo showing West performing at Coachella in 2011. Given previous discussions about the infobox image, I think that keeping the 2009 image is preferable to the ones from 2011 because they are not much newer than the 2009 image and the 2009 image is of much higher quality whilst also clearly showing West's face. What do others think about this? Alduin2000 (talk) 18:36, 13 September 2021 (UTC) (Notifying EthanRossie2000 and Roboloss about the discussion. Alduin2000 (talk) 18:50, 13 September 2021 (UTC))

I've replaced the infobox image with the 2009 one for now as the one previously being used has been nominated for deletion (c:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Kanye West in 2019). Alduin2000 (talk) 00:16, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

The 2011 cropped image is my preference. I think his appearance is far closer to his appearance today, despite it being only 2 years after the 2009 image. This image also clearly shows West's face and is of just as high quality as the 2009 in my opinion. HvndsxmeSquidwvrd (talk) 13:44, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Update: The "2019" images have been deleted as a result of the deletion discussion. Alduin2000 (talk) 11:28, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

2009 picture is better imo. It more clearly shows his face and the 2011 pic is kind of blurry. – Anne drew 14:34, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree, I think the 2009 one is far better, especially because he is facing the camera. Alduin2000 (talk) 17:12, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

2019-present

" ... West had once again begun working on his upcoming album amid his divorce with Kim Kardashian." Correctly, "his divorce from Kim Kardashian". Prisoner of Zenda (talk) 22:45, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done —pythoncoder (talk | contribs) 23:41, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Name change?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Should his name in the lede and the rest of the article be "Kanye West", or "Ye"? It was officially announced that he is changing his name to "Ye", but by WP:COMMONNAME, he is still most well known as Kanye West. Seems like there has been a lot of edit warring over this. Natg 19 (talk) 00:05, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

The way it's phrased now seems to be in line with lead style guidelines and MOS:CHANGEDNAME in particular. WP:COMMONNAME addresses article titles. I don't think there's any basis to change the article title to "Ye". Throast (talk | contribs) 00:39, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

@MZMcBride, Jumper4677, Muboshgu, and KD0710: Natg 19 (talk) 00:45, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Additionally, most of the article still uses "West" to refer to him, so should all of this be changed to "Ye" instead? Natg 19 (talk) 00:48, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Sources still called him "Kanye West" not "Ye", I don't see the point of changing the article's title while people prefer by his birth name. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 00:52, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

We should treat this page as we treat Lisa Bonet, Mos Def, and Cat Stevens, until "Ye" overtakes "Kanye West" as his COMMONNAME. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Definitely not. The body should still use "Kanye West"/"West" as it's the name most sources have been using. "Ye" might be used at some point in the future if sources start and keep using it predominantly. Throast (talk | contribs) 01:05, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

I believe we should keep Kanye West for now per COMMONNAME. Let's wait and see if media outlets and the general public begin to refer to him as "Ye" instead of "Kanye", then we can make such a major change. --Bobtinin (talk) 01:09, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree it should wait to change. Most sources are saying “Kanye West changes his name to Ye” This insinuates he is more commonly known as Kanye West at this point. KD0710 (talk) 01:22, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Exactly, it's way too early to change the article's title because "Kanye West" is a very known name of his. If he change his name back at 2004, this wouldn't be a problem. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 01:42, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Yep. Follow WP:COMMONNAME. Let's stick with Kanye West as long as reliable sources stick with it. ~ HAL333 02:27, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi. As noted in the previous discussion, Wikipedia was very quick to update the page titles for Caitlyn Jenner and Chelsea Manning and change the pronouns used throughout their articles. Why would this case be different? Continuing to reference the subject by a name he no longer uses ("West") is a pretty stark departure from our practice elsewhere. KD0710 notes that media outlets reference the subject's previous name, but that's to provide readers with the appropriate context. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:43, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Because Kanye isn't transgender (as far as we know). Also, it's not a departure (see Lisa Bonet, Mos Def, and Cat Stevens, for example). – Muboshgu (talk) 17:55, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi Muboshgu. Nobody is suggesting Ye is transgender, the question is whether Wikipedia is willfully engaging in a form of deadnaming. While those are interesting examples, it seems more likely that they need to change as well instead of them providing precedent here. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:20, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

MZMcBride, MOS:DEADNAME talks exclusively about gender identity. We have no guidance telling us not to "deadname" someone in a case like this. What we do have for this case is WP:COMMONNAME. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:27, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Talk:Hank_Aaron#Requested_move_23_January_2021 provides a consensus that the COMMONNAME takes precedence over the subject's desires. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:28, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

To be clear here, you linked to MOS:DEADNAME, I did no such thing since gender identity is irrelevant to this discussion. Deadnaming is a more general concept of deliberately referring to an individual by a name that they have publicly and intentionally disavowed. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:10, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

You are talking about deadnaming, and MOS:DEADNAME, as I said below, is our only on-Wiki policy for this. We are not discouraged from calling him "Kanye West" here. There are tons of examples of how we handle this, like the ones I've brought up here. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:20, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

It should also be noted that all mainstream publications quickly switched to using Caitlyn, Chelsea, she/her, etc. We follow what reliable sources do. ~ HAL333 20:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

@MZMcBride: Have you do your research? Multiple publications still calling him by his birth name not his new name, "Kanye West" is a common name that we all used to, we are not gonna jump the gun and just calling him "Ye". TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 22:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi TheAmazingPeanuts. Sure, I've done my research, have you? The question here is whether Wikipedia is engaging in a form of deadnaming and to what extent Wikipedia should respect a subject's wishes with regard to how they identify themselves. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:20, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Deadname: "A previous name of a person (especially a transgender person) who has since changed their name." Why is this being called "deadname"? At no point the concept of deadname indicates those so-called subject's wishes. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 00:53, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi Tbhotch. Did you read what you pasted? A previous name of a person who has since changed their name. That's exactly what's being described here. The deadnaming concept is about referring to a person, transgender or otherwise, who has changed their name and expressed a clear wish to be referred to by a different name. By continuing to use and reference their previous name, you're engaging in deadnaming. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:59, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

We have no rules telling us not to deadname, with the exception of transgender individuals who were not notable under their birth name, such as Laverne Cox. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I read it, and you are stretching the term: "The deadnaming concept is about referring to a person ... who has changed their name and expressed a clear wish to be referred to by a different name." No, that's not what deadname is, that's your aggregated definition of the term. A deadname is the former name of a person. I understand the guys below who keep insisting that the article must be renamed. They are new, they simply won't get it, but you are not new. Did you know that Sinéad O'Connor legally changed her name 3 years ago? Did you know that after all this time sources still call Shuhada Sadaqat "Sinéad O'Connor"? As you keep insisting this is similar to when a transgender person changes their name, what happens when you look for "Bruce Jenner" or "Emily Page"? You will get old sources mostly. New sources rarely will name them by their former name. Ye, however, is not the common name, and if we take Sadaqat's case, his article is unlikely to be moved to Ye (rapper) in the near future. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 19:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

@MZMcBride: Look at these recent sources [3][4][5] do they called him by his new name? No. Just because he officially change name doesn't mean he change it professionally and you comparing him to a transgender person is ridiculous. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 21:58, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

There are other sources that have accepted and started using his new name such as <https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/kanye-west-ye-prosthetic-mask-jfk-b1940870.html>. Even CBC Kids News gets it. The handwringing about the article title is theater: the MediaWiki software very easily supports redirects and we can trivially rename the article at any time. We do this regularly for other individuals.

In this case, the subject has expressed a clear wish to be referred to by a different name, going as far as asking for legal recognition of it. Other than citing cases where Wikipedia has similarly ignored a subject's express wishes to be called a different name, nobody seems to be able to point to any coherent reason for the wide discrepancy in treatment between subjects such as this one and Cara Cunningham. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:23, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

MZMcBride, I sure have. WP:COMMONNAME is the policy, and MOS:DEADNAME only covers trans individuals. You just didn't respond to me above when I pointed that out. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:48, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

From an hour ago, Kanye West’s Groundbreaking Album ‘Donda’ Reaches One Billion Streams On Spotify. Two hours ago, Kanye West's Yeezy brand sued over alleged shipment delays. Three days ago, Kanye West Puts Monster Lake Ranch in Wyoming on the Market for $11M. And I'm not providing the links or titles of articles I see from US Weekly and Page 6 / New York Post from the last few days, which also call him "Kanye West". – Muboshgu (talk) 23:51, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Your attempt to focus on what's a policy or a guideline or whatever is a silly distraction and shouldn't be encouraged. This is an editorial project and it's an editorial decision with regard to this subject. Thank you for providing examples of other places where Wikipedia also wrongly decided what to do, they've been illustrative that the problem is larger than just this article. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:09, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia policies and guidelines are a silly distraction? That's an odd statement. This isn't an WP:IAR situation. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:52, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

I said your attempt to focus on such things is a silly distraction. Also, please consider how obnoxious and unnecessary it is to constantly be shouting ("WP:COMMONNAME" in all caps, for example) weird wiki jargon at users. I'm a fellow editor and I very much hope you would not be shouting "WP:IAR" or whatever else at me if we were having a discussion in-person. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:57, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Focusing on Wiki policy on Wikipedia is not a silly distraction. I'm citing policy which is often shortcutted in caps and it is not my intention to shout. In an in person discussion, my tone of voice would be calm but firm. I agree that I don't need to be dropping any more all caps policies at this point. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:28, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

This is an "editorial project"? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia with clear "rules" and policies. Natg 19 (talk) 22:57, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Every editorial project has rules, policies, guidelines, style guides, etc. I don't know what your point is. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:53, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 October 2021

Maybe his name should be changed to Ye? Harryscaryswe (talk) 08:03, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See discussions above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:58, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

@Harryscaryswe: Please see WP:COMMONNAME for the rationale for keeping the article name the same, at least for now. -- The Anome (talk) 11:17, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Ye or Kanye West?

Adminstrator request sent for moving page from Kanye West to Ye in recognition of his recent name change.---<font face="Georgia">'''User:Lawrencegordon |<span style="color:#009900">lawrencegordon </span>'''</font><font face="Courier New">_{''[[User talk:Lawrencegordon |<span style="color:#006600">I am the best </span>]]''}</font> (talk) 22:20, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

As discussed above, the general consensus is to NOT move this page to Ye, but to keep it at Kanye West. Natg 19 (talk) 22:30, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

The deadnaming needs to stop

There is no "Kanye" anymore. If Wikipedia fails to move this page with the alacrity that pages of the recently transitioned get, the project will be the recipient of avoidable and unnecessary political scorn and accusations of bias. 2600:1012:B01F:72D2:5429:201D:9BCC:1A45 (talk) 05:44, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia is influential enough that moving the page can hasten adoption of the new name by the public. WP:COMMONNAME does provide criteria to make the determination of when the page move is appropriate; all reputable sources are already referring to him as "Ye". How long do we have to wait? It doesn't say, but AP, NPR, etc. respect the name change already, all at once. Just make the damn change. 2600:1012:B01F:72D2:5429:201D:9BCC:1A45 (talk) 06:10, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, if they changed Ellen Page to Elliot Page, they should change Kanye to Ye Triosdeity (talk) 10:59, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

WP:DEADNAME does not apply, as this is someone changing their legal name without their reason being gender identity. No reliable sources have referred to him as Ye except for articles regarding his name change. Once they begin to refer to him as "Ye" instead of Kanye West, then we can discuss it later. Fakescientist8000 (talk) 13:42, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Which sources in particular even call him Ye, besides articles on his rename itself? This isn't anywhere comparable to deadnaming a trans person.HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 12:58, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Ye is going through an important phase in his life. This is pretty similar to a trans person changing gender. deity 13:36, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

While I disagree with that, I do agree that it is still quite important. Ye has been quite vocal about West being a slave name for him, even addressing this topic in the leaked songs "Chakras" and "Last Name." I agree with the notion to move the article to Ye, add redirects, and move Kanye West to the born as part of the article, as he was notable under that name but doesn't want to use it any longer. GREENPROCYON (talk) 22:36, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

It’s not and you’re being insulting. Perfecnot (talk) 17:49, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

whatever floats your boat deity 00:40, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not here to "hasten adoption of the new name by the public". From the discussion above, many experienced editors agree that reliable sources are still calling him "Kanye West" and so a name change is not appropriate. Natg 19 (talk) 17:27, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

eh,who cares if soucres call him kanye,hes ye now. thats whats he should called.Yeial (talk) 18:13, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

@Yeial: Reliable sources does matter in Wikipedia, if you not here follow the guidelines like any other else here then stay off the website. It doesn't matter if he change his name or not, we go by what the sources says. There has been other artists in the past that change their name but keep their name professionally. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 22:21, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Alright then,but a some section/statement clarifying then name change would be nice. Not like you need to change the whole article to be Ye. Yeial (talk) 12:06, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Like others have said, as long as relevant sources continue to refer to him as Kanye West, then he is Kanye West. His legal name is not relevant to his artist name. I say we treat the situation similar to how we might treat Kodak Black changing his legal name. Don't let the fact that Kanye's artist name has always matched his legal name until now. He's still a rapper, and will be known by his rap name. 73.220.143.197 (talk) 04:12, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Makes sense i guess. still,you could make a section about the name change or have the top sentence say ¨Ye,also known by his stage name Kanye West,¨ or something. At least make some sort of statement or reference to the change. Yeial (talk) 11:43, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

These are in the article: Kanye_West#Name_change and the first sentence does say that : Kanye Omari West (/ˈkɑːnjeɪ/; born June 8, 1977, and legally named Ye /jeɪ/ since October 2021) Natg 19 (talk) 17:08, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

I think we should move the page to Ye. That is a better idea. I always refer to him as Ye all the time. Guzzlord (talk) 21:42, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME is the policy about name pages. It overrides every other guideline. However, we should take note of sources that (might) starting using Ye per WP:NAMECHANGES. cookie monster 755 04:04, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree that we should obviously keep the title of the article as Kanye West. However, we should look at other name changes, like in the case of Sinéad O'Connor, where her common name is the title of the article, but it begins with her legal name Shuhada Sadaqat. Ye--however unconventional of a name it is--is his full legal name, so we should change the ordering to reflect that. ~BappleBusiness^[talk] 15:11, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I agree that the intro needs to be changed. Should it be Ye (/jeɪ/; born June 8, 1977), born and commonly known as Kanye Omari West (/ˈkɑːnjeɪ/)... or should it be something else? cookie monster 755 02:47, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

We should include somehow that Kanye still uses Kanye West for his music (on his YouTube, Spotify, etc). Formatting-wise it's difficult, because people don't really use his middle name when referring to him (unlike say Franklin D. Roosevelt), but it was his former legal middle name, and if asked, I would guess that many people would consider his name (whatever that means) to be Kanye Omari West despite his legal name change. I don't have a concrete alternate formatting I can think of though. ~BappleBusiness^[talk] 18:32, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

If we copy the structure of Sinead O'Connor, we could do:

Ye (born Kanye Omari West on June 8, 1977 and still known by his birth name, Kanye West) is a...

–Alduin2000 (talk) 21:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Incoherent subject treatment

Yesterday the company formerly known as Facebook Inc. announced it was renaming to Meta. The article has already been renamed and updated accordingly. So just to recap here, the following situations are apparently exempt from "common name" rules:

• corporations renaming (Meta Inc.)
• individuals who change their name as part of a divorce or marriage (e.g., MacKenzie Bezos is by far the more common name, surely)
  • Melinda French Gates is also an example of a name change after divorce. Wikipedians moved it quickly only after a month. She announced the name change around May 5 and the page was moved June 6. I assume current WP:COMMONNAME policy about court ordered legal name changes and marriage/divorced name changes on a case-by-case basis. cookie monster 755 23:46, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
• transgendered individuals

But in the case of this subject, where he's gone as far as to legally request and be granted a name change, the article title, intro sentence, and references throughout can't be updated? This is silly and incoherent. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:09, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Just a helpful correction, the proper term is "transgender", not "transgendered". Easy mistake to make, I was corrected on it years ago. Transgender individuals have a specific policy against deadnaming, but we don't have that rule for other subjects. What happens on other pages isn't relevant here. This is only the talk page for Kanye West, or Ye if you prefer. I have no idea what Bezos' exwife's common name is. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:34, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

I would support an exception to WP:COMMONNAME to change policy to reflect the name of individuals after a court order, marriage or divorce. Infuriately, that is not policy though. It must be changed at village pump and be a Wikipedia wide change. It took two years to move Hailey Baldwin to Hailey Bieber because of the WP:COMMONNAME policy. Maybe you should start a discussion at village pump? cookie monster 755 23:43, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

I should also note here that even though she began going by "Kim Kardashian West" after their marriage, we never moved her page away from Kim Kardashian. We shouldn't automatically move pages when people get married or divorced, it should be about their common name. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:47, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Well I did open a discussion here regarding this issue as it seems bigger than Kanye West. cookie monster 755 00:15, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2021

Kanye changed his name to Ye, add Ye, and redirect the search Kanye west to ye west. FierceAlpaca (talk) 05:17, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

ok FierceAlpaca (talk) 05:17, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ––FormalDude talk 05:22, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 21 October 2021

Change: Kanye Omari West (/ˈkɑːnjeɪ/; born June 8, 1977, and legally named Ye /jeɪ/ since October 2021)

To: Ye (born Kanye Omari West, on June 8, 1977) 184.146.132.81 (talk) 05:49, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done There is a discussion above about how to refer to the subject of this article. If that discussion reaches a conclusion that it should be changed, make an edit request; until that has happened, submitting such requests is a waste of everyone's time. Girth Summit _(blether) 08:46, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done There wasn't a consensus declared on opening sentence formatting; rather, this arrangement was suggested by @MZMcBride: @Muboshgu: and @Alduin2000: with no opposition from other editors. ili (talk) 18:14, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2021

Ye's name on the info card is still labelled as "Kanye West" but his new legal name is "Ye" NotWolfGod (talk) 05:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. WP:INFOBOXNAME states the infobox title should be the common name of the article's subject, which is currently "Kanye West". ––FormalDude talk 06:33, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

A change amid recent Drink Champs interview

Edc4thearchiver 4:24, 6 November 2021 (EST)

I am a newcomer; I apologize for unprofessionalism on my part!

Ye recently went onto the show Drink Champs, produced by Crazy Hood Productions and airs on RevoltTV before being posted onto Youtube and other podcast sites. Ye discussed a point about how he takes offense to the term 'Rapper', equating it to a form of the N-word to him. He brings up that he got a PHD from the Art Institute of Chicago, and for others to at least call him a "artist". While I'm not sure how Wikipedia rules the use of the term "artist", I do think that the first sentence could add a couple of professions. He's been singing on his records for quite a while, obviously 808's and Heartbreaks is the catalyst here, but Jesus is King and Donda has multiple songs with him singing on them. The term "singer" could be added, even if he isn't the best at it. Same with acting; his cinema appearances are low, but specifically with many songs off of the 808s and Heartbreak and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy era, their music videos often have him acting to fit the directors and his goal in mind. The short films We Were Once a Fairytale and Runaway also is filled with him acting for the camera. I'm not sure what is best here, but I do think adding "artist" or "general producer" is perfect for his usual goals in production of his music, short videos, and general films. I do have some bias as a Ye fan, and obviously there is ego within the interview. Ye has infamously been very discussive about him being "one of the greats", alongside people like Steve Jobs, or Walt Disney. Of course, there was ego within this show, however u nlike some of his statements, I do think that some more terms besides "rapper, record producer, and fashion designer" could be added as he ventures into many different areas of life. There is obviously the "ventures" section of the page, which is perfect for minor ventures like politics or architecture, but I believe he is a "artist" regardless of genre of music.

Adding “singer” seems reasonable to me given that he’s done a fair bit of singing on his more recent material. His acting is not as well known so I don’t think it belongs in the first sentence. —pythoncoder (talk | contribs) 22:00, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Expanding fashion projects in lead and body

I believe that West's fashion projects, namely YEEZY, YEEZYxGap and also his previous Louis Vuitton collaborations, his current Balenciaga collaborations, his previous Nike collaborations should be given more weight in this article, both in the lead (it's currently just a sentence) and in the body (I think it should receive a dedicated section) considering their relevance (YEEZY is considered a leading shoe ware brand, it raised Gap's stock by several points when a collab was announced, past coverage of projects) and the fact that the majority of his net worth comes from fashion projects.

There are even more fashion projects and collaborations than I have listen above. Given the number of them and their significance, I strongly belive that Fashion should get it's own section beyond it's current placement in the other endeavours section, where it should be expanded upon and it should also recieve more space in the lead perhaps mentioning something like "....received media attention in the 2020's due to collaborations with Gap and Balenciaga" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ackner2 (talk • contribs) 11:46, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2021

I would add 'Ye' in the "other names section" as he offically changed his name. 80.182.209.194 (talk) 14:04, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: It is already at the top of the infobox. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:26, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Occupations and Genres

I think that one of his occupations listed should be singer because he sings in many of his songs such as Ultralight Beam, 24, No Child Left Behind, Never Abandon Your Family, God Is and Ghost Town and I think one of his genres listed should be gospel because of his three recent albums The Life Of Pablo, JESUS IS KING and Donda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heeteehee (talk • contribs) 17:07, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Watch the Throne

Alright, so I believe that Watch the Throne should be considered part of Jay-Z and Kanye’s respective discographies. My reason for this is that Cheek to Cheek, a collaboration album by Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga, is listed on both of those singers’ discographies. I believe this is an understandable notion to go off of.

However, a user named TheAmazingPeanuts has made the claim that I must provide a source for this, even though no source was provided on Cheek to Cheek’s page. Thoughts? 2601:48:8100:B6A0:28A9:9060:BA38:FE13 (talk) 04:44, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 13 December 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved per unanimous consensus. No such user (talk) 13:43, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

---

Kanye West → Ye (rapper) – The article already has "Ye" as his main name. 2600:6C5A:657F:468A:F97F:93B2:AAA1:42DE (talk) 20:39, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, which is still "Kanye West". Here's some news sources from the last week:[6][7][8][9][10][11] – Muboshgu (talk) 21:08, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. All of his music is still listed as "Kanye West" on all streaming platforms. It could be argued that this is now his stage name, which would make it fit for the title of the article. --Hostagecat (talk) 22:01, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Mos Def changed his name to "Yasiin Bey", and has even been credited under that name. Our page hasn't moved. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:24, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
    • And Cat Stevens changed his name decades earlier but the consensus is that he is still better known by that name in the West.--65.93.193.134 (talk) 22:48, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

      Yes, Cat Stevens is another good example. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:35, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

• No one is calling this man Ye except somewhat casually or as a side note. Trillfendi (talk) 22:32, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose [User:Das Kittles] this is just stupid, none of his albums are under the name Ye, all of them are made by Kanye West who just recently changed his name to Ye, if we can have the article [Andre 3000] which isnt his actually name but the name of his character in the outkast trio. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Das Kittles (talk • contribs) 19:53, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
• Support per WP:NAMECHANGES. There are some sources now using Ye, which is E! Online, Vulture, GQ, Billboard, Wonderwall, Los Angeles Daily News, and Rolling Out. cookie monster 755 00:13, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. ––FormalDude ^talk 00:35, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose Only a few sources are calling him Ye, and thus his common name is still Kanye West. Additionally, we had this discussion only a few months ago with the consensus for the title to remain at Kanye West. This discussion can be revisited in 6 months or so, but should not be revisited before then. Natg 19 (talk) 02:30, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose move and snowclose per COMMONNAME. It's only been a month since the last discussion. O.N.R. ^(talk) 05:47, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
• Strong oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, no "if"s, "and"s, "but"s, or "maybe"s about it. This dude's name is still printed as "Kanye West" nearly everywhere on the World Wide Web. mediafanatic17 talk 16:28, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. I still see people prefer him as Kanye West, nobody not calling him Ye. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 20:54, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Nobody calls him Ye. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:53, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

If the man wants to be called Ye and his LEGAL name is Ye, then I don't see any reason to NOT change his name to Ye. It doesn't matter if no one uses Ye, if it's his OFFICIAL name, then we use the OFFICIAL name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucidum Hydra (talk • contribs) 19:44, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

That would go directly against WP:COMMONNAME which is long standing policy. Also a recent discussion at Wikipedia talk:Article titles#RfC: changes to WP:COMMONNAME to accommodate individual's preferred name after court-ordered name change, marriage or divorce rejected such a proposal and I doubt anything had changed in the short time between that discussion and now to indicate a significant change in consensus on the issue. 65.93.193.134 (talk) 22:34, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

No, we really don't. See WP:OFFICIALNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:50, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Pretty simple decision, really. Been Wikipedia's policy for a while. Everyone knows him as Kanye West, all of his albums have been released under the name Kanye West and that is still how his name appears on Spotify, Apple Music, etc. No reason to change the page. Maybe might be worth reconsidering at a later time.  GrendelNightmares  (talk) 07:03, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose. His common name is still Kanye West. You probably have not even read WP:COMMONNAME. --The Tips of Apmh 14:11, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. Current title is clearly the common name. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:59, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2022

change football to American football, and soccer to football Hummus10 (talk) 12:52, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: This article is written in American English. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:24, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2022

Source 95 does not mention other artists taking chances as a result of 808's and Heartbreaks as the sentence it's attached to states, it's simply and editorial on a writer's enjoyment of the album despite criticism of the album. Whether this means the sentence source 95 is attached to needs to go is not something I'm sure of though. 76.90.56.199 (talk) 09:26, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Kpddg ^(talk) 04:53, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2022

Elmacaco420 (talk) 16:49, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

we should stop referring to him as a rapper because he does art. he is an artist. he literally has a phd in art. change it.

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:02, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Shawn B.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2021 and 24 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MatthewPulito.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

'Ye'

OK, is this vandalism? Because I don't recall Kanye being called 'Ye'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7081:2D01:51E8:51FB:83D1:D87B:A036 (talk) 21:46, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

See Kanye West#Name change. Some1 (talk) 03:11, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Influential

"Widely" considered one of the most influential voices in music? By whom? Sarzonia (talk) 02:50, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

@Sarzonia numerous critics, media outlets, publications. Tame (talk) 10:16, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2022

{{subst:trim|1=

Net Worth 9 billion 

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 03:13, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2022 (3)

add Philosopher as a occupation Pechac (talk) 21:38, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:41, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2022 (2)

add "Ray West" as a father Pechac (talk) 21:36, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. It's already covered in the article. Often times only notable people with articles get listed in the infobox. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:42, 5 February 2022 (UTC)