Talk:Howard Cosell

catch phrase

No mention here of the catch phrase so closely associated with Howard Cosell, "telling it like it is."

I've added it. Wasted Time R 13:15, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

The myth of the name being changed by immigration is oft-repeated but false. INS Immigration officials were not in the business of handing out names; they merely checked them off a list. And at that time a person could use any name they wanted in the new country. Questors 21:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Who wrote this?

The writing here is a disgrace. First, HC called Herb Mul-Key of the Redskins a monkey. Second, the writing here is so poor, I refuse to edit. Sad, because HC is due more.

I wrote the section you are criticizing. Off the top of my Google, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/memories/1995/95pass13.htm lists, in the quotations, about Howard Cosell referring to Garrett. There are countless other sources which state that it was Mike Adamle (1970), Herb Mul-Key (1973) and Alvin Garrett (1983).

I'm the gentleman who made the above comment, and I've made one further change to the "Little Monkey" section. I believe it is important to show that there does exist evidence that Cosell used "little monkey", in the exact same way he used it to describe Alvin Garrett, to describe players of all ethnicities. Saying "Others were quick to point out" reduces the notion to hearsay. It is not hearsay; it is a fact, evinced at least by Cosell's referral of Mike Adamle with that term on a broadcast. If the wording is off, say so, but at the very least, can't we keep it as a matter of record that NOT "others state that," but in fact, "Cosell DID do that.."? Authoritative website source- http://howardcosell-littlemonkeycomment.blogspot.com/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.22.166.87 (talk) 17:37, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Jewish American

All other biographies don't mention Jewishness(is this a word) in first sentence. From a review of other Jewish folks, this doesn't seem standard. I saw Maury Povich also did this but not many others. There are so many others, however, I didn't check them all. Any thoughts on appropriateness of mentioning this in FIRST line. Is this really the most defining characteristic of Howard??? What is the "norm" when it comes to this "labelling"??68.99.154.144 01:10, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Cosell did change his name from Cohen (a uniquely Jewish name indicating descent, allegedly, from the priests of the destroyed Temple in Jerusalem). This would seem to be in keeping with the practice of celebrities Anglicizing/Americanizing ethnic names. It still goes on today.

Even today, aspiring Jewish performers have done this; e.g. Natalie Portman was born Natalie Hershlag.

Imo, at least, when someone's ethnic or national background can shed light not only on their personality and career choices but give insight into why they did it? To disguise their origin in order to "fit" in with the dominant linguistic/cultural millieu? Or maybe the person just didn't like their name.

Cosell was born during a time (1918) when large numbers of Jews were immigrating to the US (many fleeing from persecution in Czarist Russia. Hostility to the influx--and not the anti-Semitism endemic to France, Russia and, most importantly of all, Germany--was due to the academic and professional success of many Jews leading to the age old fear (or excuse) that "they" would take "our" jobs, university slots, etc. The Great Depression gave Nativism a particularly (but none-the-less indefensible) strong resonance.

However, it hasn't just been Jews who have changed their names because of discrimination, one of my own great-great grandfather's changed the family name from Schmidt to Smith in order to avoid the strong anti-German sentiment during World War I.

Many deeds to older houses still contain (now unenforceable) convenants that banned Jews from buying such homes in order to keep "them" out of "our" neighborhoods. Jews responded by building their own neighborhoods. Banned from vacation spots, Jewish entrepreneurs built ones for Jews (the movie Dirty Dancing shows the effect of precisely this kind of discrimination).

Sadly, this led some universities, in the 20s, 30s & 40s, especially Ivy League schools to institute "quotas" limiting the number of Jews attending their schools. Quotas (under the absurd term "affirmative action") very similar to ones imposed on Jews , have been imposed by some universities upon Asian-American candidates (mostly Chinese/Japanese/Korean ethnicity) and upon European-Americans (so-called "white" people).

It was not unknown for Jews (as with other groups) to Americanize their names in order to appear more "American" (i.e. WASP-y).

Of course, it isn't just Americans who are more accepting of modified names. The French, for example, call Johann Sebastian Bach, Jean Sebastien Bach; whereas in the US and UK the original German is used. The names of foreign monarchs are often Anglicized (e.g. in the Showtime series The Tudors the French King Francois I is called "Francis"--which is standard use by historians--and the Spanish King/Holy Roman Emperor Charles I & V is not called Carlos (or the German variant Karl).

It seems to me that an immigrant or native-born American is more likely to change their last name to something more "American" if they have aspirations to be an actor, singer, dancer or even reporter. Sometimes names are changed for euphonious or aesthetic reasons, e.g.: Frances Gumm was changed into Judy Garland. An example from today is that of Tom Cruise, the highest paid actor in the world; he dropped his birth surname Mopather for the more "marketable" Cruise.

PainMan 03:18, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Not sure if I buy Howard's reason for the name change from Cohen to Cosell, but there were many cases where immigration clerks who thought they were doing the person a favor replaced hard-to-say names with Cohen. The problem is that if your name is Cohen, by the patrilineal descent that applies in this case, you should be a direct heir of a priest of the ancient temple. It's also true of Katz or a variant of either. This gives you special privileges in regards to Jewish worship. You can see how having a bunch of fake Cohens around would create a problem. With DNA analysis there's actually a gene that can settle the matter of fake or real! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:246:CB00:5440:B4C0:5B7B:D806:D725 (talk) 00:51, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ronald Reagan and Howard Cosell.JPG

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Abrams facts

Cosell's wife went to Columbia High School in Maplewood NJ, and she and Cosell were married at Prospect Presbyterian Church in Maplewood. Note that CHS is shared between two towns, so Abrams may in fact have been a South Orange resident. Source of this info is a discussion on the alumni mailing list (alumni_chsultimate on yahoogroups) for the CHS Ultimate (sport) team; in the early 1970s, Ed Summers and other folks from the team spoke to Cosell in an elevator in an attempt to get him to promote the sport. -- Akb4 (talk) 06:54, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Down Goes Frazier

I think it's important to note which of the six knockdowns Cosell yelled "Down Goes Frazier" on. --Kitch ^{(Talk : Contrib)} 13:39, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 09:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Military

Do we really need to spend so much time and space talking about his brief military career? It was a brief and unimportant part of his life, and frankly I doubt that anyone cares. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.166.136.120 (talk) 19:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC) I think it is valuable because Cosell seemed to support Ali and thus, implicitly, ignore the millions of kids who were drafted and sent to Vietnam without having Ali's money and fame to resist.

Cultural References has to go

If someone can actually find something there is actually relevant to an encylopedic article on Cosell, place it in the appropriate section.

I'm going to axe the whole section.

done —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.236.208 (talk) 01:32, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

speaking accent

Should be something on his manner of speech / accent, which was distinctive and widely parodied... AnonMoos (talk) 09:40, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I say yes, though referring to his voice as "staccato" seems a bit odd. He didn't talk in short, quick bursts. He had kind of a drawn-out, nasal quality. - TW86 --74.8.117.34 (talk) 19:15, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

"The Bronx is burning"

The article's section on this famous quote begins by stating as fact that Cosell delivered the line on-air, and then goes into a bit of detail about it; the section then ends with a convincing argument that Cosell didn't say anything of the sort (based mostly on this article from 2007). Is there positive proof that Cosell delivered the line? E.g. a Youtube clip, or audio recording? What is the earliest source for the quote? The provided New York Times article is from 2005. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 21:24, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

-- Edited to clean up the confusion, but the language still isn't perfect and could use some editing. The section is incredibly long for such an insignificant point in the man's life —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.181.36.197 (talk) 02:47, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Evidence absolving Cosell in "little monkey" controversy

Today (14 January 2011) I added a parenthetical comment to the effect that Cosell is, indeed, on record as referring to Mike Adamle as a "little monkey". The comment is from a 1972 pre-season game that was broadcast and included in a broadcast on Cosell's life. If you want a citation before I put that in, I'll dig it up. But I think it's important -- Cosell didn't just "claim" he did it in the past for Adamle, he actually factually DID refer to Adamle as a "little monkey" 11 years in the past. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.5.67.195 (talk) 11:21, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Like almost all content in Wikipedia, it needs a citation. --CutOffTies (talk) 14:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

The whole deal about that brouhaha was that to some it sounded like Cosell was being racist - which, to anyone who knew Cosell, was absurd. If he veriably used that term specifically for one player, more than once, that could be am interesting bit of trivia. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:47, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

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"Little monkey" comment

Why is there no mention of Cosell's comment calling a black athlete "little monkey"? It caused a huge brouhaha at the time. I believe he was fired for it, although I see other indications from today's Google search that he left voluntarily because of it. That controversy is what I remember most about him. It is mentioned here:

Cosell...created a furor with his comment during the Sept. 5, 1983, telecast of the Dallas Cowboys-Washington Redskins game. After watching Garrett, a Redskins wide receiver, make a darting run after a catch, Cosell exclaimed, "That little monkey gets loose, doesn't he?"

I plan to add it. --David Tornheim (talk) 05:33, 4 July 2020 (UTC)