Talk:Don Ienner

Edit requests to Introduction and Early career sections

Hi, it's nice to meet you! I'm Garrett Ienner, (Don Ienner's son) and my understanding is that I should make suggestions here rather than make any changes myself because I'm connected to the subject. I believe there are some important updates and additions to be made, and am listing them below with sources. Happy to discuss anything with you all.

• Please add my father's birth year, 1951, to the first line of the article. I can give you the exact birthdate, of course, but I read that without a good source, Wikipedia can't use any personal information I might have about my father. I was only able to find a good source that says his age, and from there you can calculate the year he was born. The line should look like this:

Don Ienner (/ˈaɪnər/ EYE-nər; born 1951 )

• The following list of notable performers whose careers he promoted:

Ienner promoted artists including Bob Dylan, Mariah Carey, Beyoncé, Whitney Houston, Lauryn Hill, Bruce Springsteen, Leonard Cohen, Jeff Buckley, Tony Bennet, Miles Davis, Carly Simon, Grateful Dead, Robert Johnson, and Alice in Chains.

• The reference to restaurants in the introduction (beginning at "As of 2012…") should likely be removed. There is no source to support this, so it would make more sense for the last sentence to read as follows, with the same source as is on the page now:

As of 2012, Ienner was a music business consultant, and a principal in an advertising agency.

• His career in music began when he was still in high school, a fact which is covered in the current source in the Early career section. Let's include that context as follows:

In 1969, Ienner began his career in the music industry by taking a job in the mailroom of Capitol Records while still in high school.

• Another small thing- In the last sentence of the Early career section, "Jimmy Ienner" is repetitive. We already know Jimmy Ienner is my dad's brother from the first paragraph of the section.

References

I hope I did this correctly. Thank you for your help! GarrettEye (talk) 13:15, 2 November 2023 (UTC) ~

I've implemented most of the changes --FMSky (talk) 14:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much FMSky for implementing almost all of my edit request above. Could you explain to me why you left out the list of performing artists whose careers were positively affected by my father? I think his influence on the careers of some of the most popular musicians in modern times is a key component of what makes him notable, and belongs in the introduction. I would love to understand why you disagree? All the best, GarrettEye (talk) 15:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Columbia Records & Sony Music section

Hi again. I would like to request the following edits be made to the Columbia Records & Sony Music section, adding noteworthy information.

• In the first sentence of the section, replace the word "named" with the following:

hired by Sony Music Chairman Thomas D. Mottola as

• Please add the following three paragraphs directly after the first paragraph in the same section:

Within days of becoming president of Columbia in 1989, Ienner began promoting the band Poi Dog Pondering.

In 1990, the hard-rock band Warrant dedicated the title song of its album “Cherry Pie” to Ienner. The same year, Ienner vigorously promoted female pop-star Mariah Carey and her eponymous debut album.

In December 1990, Ienner announced a $10,000 donation from Columbia to the Mount Zion Memorial Fund, with an additional $7,000 contributed one month later. The money was used to pay off the debt of a small church in Mississippi and erect a memorial to legendary blues musician Robert Johnson in the church's cemetery.

• Please add the following four paragraphs directly after the paragraph that begins "In 1994, Ienner was promoted to chairman of Columbia Records…"

In 1997, Ienner was looking for a new song for a Billy Joel greatest hits album, and after reaching out to Bob Dylan, acquired "Make You Feel My Love", one of the 10 most covered songs by Dylan.

Ienner was instrumental in the success of Bob Dylan’s 1997 Columbia release of “Time Out of Mind” which won three Grammy Awards, including Best Album of the Year.

In 2001, Ienner signed Train and promoted their second album “Drops of Jupiter,” which was certified double platinum, with the single “Drops of Jupiter” from the album winning two Grammy Awards in 2002.

Ienner signed and promoted the careers of Taylor Dayne, Bruce Springsteen, John Mayer, Beyoncé and Destiny’s Child.

References

Thanks again, GarrettEye (talk) 20:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Reply 25-DEC-2023

Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request.

Edit request review 25-DEC-2023

hired by Sony Music Chairman Thomas D. Mottola as  Approved. Within days of becoming president of Columbia in 1989, Ienner began promoting the band Poi Dog Pondering.  Declined. In 1990, the hard-rock band Warrant dedicated the title song of its album “Cherry Pie” to Ienner.  Approved. The same year, Ienner vigorously promoted female pop-star Mariah Carey and her eponymous debut album.  Declined. In December 1990, Ienner announced a $10,000 donation from Columbia to the Mount Zion Memorial Fund, with an additional $7,000 contributed one month later. The money was used to pay off the debt of a small church in Mississippi and erect a memorial to legendary blues musician Robert Johnson in the church's cemetery.  Declined. In 1997, Ienner was looking for a new song for a Billy Joel greatest hits album, and after reaching out to Bob Dylan, acquired "Make You Feel My Love", one of the 10 most covered songs by Dylan.  Declined. Ienner was instrumental in the success of Bob Dylan’s 1997 Columbia release of “Time Out of Mind” which won three Grammy Awards, including Best Album of the Year.  Declined. In 2001, Ienner signed Train and promoted their second album “Drops of Jupiter,” which was certified double platinum, with the single “Drops of Jupiter” from the album winning two Grammy Awards in 2002.  Approved. Ienner signed and promoted the careers of Taylor Dayne, Bruce Springsteen, John Mayer, Beyoncé and Destiny’s Child.  Declined. ___________

Regards,  Spintendo  07:36, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Spintendo for implementing some of my suggested edits. I will try and address your concerns about the ones you did not implement, and hopefully you will be able to implement the rest.

• The source supporting the sentence about "Poi Dog Pondering" says about Ienner that: "He was at his new job for less than 48 hours when he heard the Poi Dog tape and decided to make the band his cause celebre." The next several paragraphs go on to explain the many activities Ienner engaged in to sign a contract with the band. Here is a re-written version that more accurately describes what happened according to the source:

In 1989, after less than 2 days as president of Columbia Records, Ienner listened to a recording of Poi Dog Pondering. Subsequently, he signed the band, and worked to make it Columbia's "signature band".

• Concerning the sentence about Mariah Carey, the source describes the strict control Ienner took when producing Carey's debut album. This is a better summary of the source:

In the same year, Ienner decided to "take no chances" with Mariah Carey's debut album, enlisting Narada Michael Walden and Ric Wake to produce it, producers who had already had success producing hit albums with Whitney Houston and Taylor Dayne.

• Here is a clarification for the Robert Johnson paragraph. I believe when Ienner said that "This was our way of acknowledging a debt that's long overdue" he meant a symbolic debt, an appreciation of the great music Robert Johnson had created, and not an actual monetary debt that was being reimbursed. I changed the word donation to contribution, which is the word used in the source.

In December 1990, Ienner announced a $10,000 contribution from Columbia to the Mount Zion-Robert Johnson Memorial Fund with an additional $7,000 given one month later. A portion of the money was used to erect a memorial to blues musician Robert Johnson in the Mount Zion church's cemetery in Morgan City, Mississippi.

• Concerning the paragraph about "Make You Feel My Love" the source states that "Ienner reached out to Dylan's camp." Here is a re-write to maintain accuracy:

In 1997, Ienner was looking for a new song for a Billy Joel greatest hits album, and after reaching out to Bob Dylan's camp, acquired "Make You Feel My Love", one of the 10 most covered songs by Dylan.

• The source about Dylan's album "Time Out of Mind" describes Ienner's involvement in many aspects of its production and release. For the paragraph I want to add to the article, this is the paragraph from the source I will use: "Ienner darted around the world with the record, setting up projectors in conference rooms to scroll the lyrics as Dylan sang, cranking the volume, playing Love Sick and Cold Irons Bound, Make You Feel My Love and Not Dark Yet. “It wasn’t about one song, which would have given the impression we were going to radio or making videos,” he says. “It was about showing the depth of the album and getting them all on the same page – that this could be done with Bob Dylan, again.” Ienner was right. Rave reviews rolled in. Interest in Dylan’s tours exploded, stunning Campbell, who wondered if he had signed on with a nostalgia act before Time Out Of Mind emerged. Months later, he found himself on-stage at Dylan’s right hand for the Grammys, where the record netted three trophies, including Album Of The Year."

Ienner played a key role in the success of Bob Dylan’s 1997 Columbia release of “Time Out of Mind” which won three Grammy Awards, including Best Album of the Year.

• You are right about the last sentence. Not in every case is it clear that Ienner signed and promoted each artist. It would be more accurate to say:

Ienner signed or supported the careers of Taylor Dayne, Bruce Springsteen, John Mayer, Beyoncé and Destiny’s Child.

References

Thanks again for your help. GarrettEye (talk) 10:32, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for adding some clarity to these, it's much appreciated. In the case of "promoting" Poi Dog Pondering, "signing and promoting" Train, or "signing and promoting" Dayne, Springsteen, Mayer, Beyonce and Destiny's Child, it's still not clear how these actions go beyond what the head of a record company would normally do in the course of their duties.

I can understand, perhaps, the desire to list clients that the subject had during their tenure (although this is occasionally looked down upon) but none of these stand out as requiring extra mention. The same could be said of every act that was signed by the subject, that he "vigorously promoted" them which, depending on how many individual acts were signed to the company over the entire breadth of his tenure, could conceivably be more than 50.

No matter the level of participation or "enthusiasm" displayed, all of these individual signings ultimately occurred in bland, nondescript offices with women and men in business attire signing pieces of paper, which I understand is not as riveting as the image of the subject "darting around the world with the record, setting up projectors in conference rooms" but the basic outline of these actions are all the same: the subject performing the various job duties incumbent upon all music company top executives. If anything, the information about Dylan appears to be "above and beyond" but even then, the proposed text omits the likely (according to RS) role Don DeVito played in their "pitch sessions" to Billy Joel (which, as I understand it, was the whole other side of the coin to securing the Dylan song in the first place).

Meanwhile, the claim regarding Mount Zion is acceptable, so I've added that to the article. Regards,  Spintendo  07:13, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Spintendo for implementing the bullet point above in such a timely fashion. I understand completely that it would be inappropriate to list every performing artist or band that Ienner promoted, but that is not what I am asking for. Every artist I am suggesting to be added is notable (has a Wikipedia article) and is discussed in reliable, independent sources. This is the "meat and potatoes" of Wikipedia. The sources decide what information goes in an article; the editors bring those sources to the page. Readers of Wikipedia who want to learn about Don Ienner will learn little about him the way the article is configured now. Legendary artists like Mariah Carey, Bob Dylan, Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, and more, are not even mentioned on this page. I think these omissions are a disservice to Wikipedia readers. If you have another idea how we can somehow add these names to the article that perhaps don’t include that Don Ienner was just doing his job when he was promoting these artists, I am open to another approach. But I feel strongly that these artists have a place somewhere on Ienner's Wikipedia article. Thank you for kindly reconsidering your decision. GarrettEye (talk) 10:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Improve last paragraph of "Columbia Records & Sony Music" section

Hello. I would like to suggest the following small changes be made to the last paragraph in the article that begins "In a 2017 interview with Howard Stern…" I believe my suggested edits adhere more accurately to the sources supporting the paragraph, and removes extraneous, unrelated information. All the changes are just to the first sentence of that last paragraph, except for the last bullet point:

• Delete "strongly implied" and replace with "said".
• Delete the word "of" and replace with "'the president of the company' made a" (include the quotation marks since it is a quote from the source.)
• Remove the 's' from 'remarks'
• Delete "Ienner made about the background vocalist on Mellencamp's" and replace with "to his manager in"
• Delete "single 'Peaceful World.'"
• Remove the parenthesis that are around the third sentence.

After the edits the final paragraph will look like this:

In a 2017 interview with Howard Stern, the singer-songwriter John Mellencamp said that he left Columbia Records because the "president of the company" made a racist remark to his manager in 2001. The British singer George Michael claimed to have overheard Ienner referring to him as a "faggot," triggering the singer's 1994 legal effort to dissolve his contract with Columbia. Michael lost the case and Ienner denied using the term.

References

Thanks so much. GarrettEye (talk) 09:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I've implemented these changes, they seemed like improvements --FMSky (talk) 03:56, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Later career

Thank you so much FMSky for implementing the above edit request. I have a few more suggestions that I hope you will also feel comfortable adding to the Columbia Records & Sony Music section.

• Below the paragraph that begins "In 1994, Ienner was promoted to chairman…" please add the following paragraph:

Between 1989 and 2001 Ienner “transformed Sony’s Columbia division from a washed-up pop monolith into a muscular hit-making machine,” according to the Los Angeles Times. Under his auspices the label re-established itself as a force in rock, rap, and R&B. Revenue went from $300 million in 1989 to $730 million in 2000. Bob Dylan called Ienner an “unstoppable force.”

• Below the paragraph that begins "In 2003, Ienner was named chairman of Sony Music Label Group…" please add the following five paragraphs:

In June 2006, Ienner left as chairman of Sony Music Label Group U.S. after 18 years at Sony and less than three years after being promoted to chairman.

After leaving Sony, Ienner became principal at IMO Entertainment, and an artist manager and consultant to Universal Music.

In 2010, Ienner founded cloud-based social content player IMHO Media.

Ienner, together with John Hamlin, managed the band Hot Chelle Rae in 2011.

Ienner invested in the use of technology to predict hit songs. In 2003, during work on Beyoncé’s first solo album, there was a disagreement between Beyoncé and Ienner about what the first single should be. Ienner sent several tracks from the album to be tested by the company Hit Predictor, which determined that “Crazy in Love” was the best choice. “Crazy in Love” became a major hit, winning two Grammies in 2004.

References

Could you also take a look at the above edit request labeled "Columbia Records & Sony Music section" and see if you think any of the bullet points that were not already implemented could be? Thanks so much for all your editing work. GarrettEye (talk) 15:33, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done Encoded  Talk 💬 07:23, 9 May 2024 (UTC)