Talk:2023 Pacific hurricane season

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Section sizes

Section size for 2023 Pacific hurricane season (34 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	7,815	7,815
Seasonal forecasts	4,456	4,456
Seasonal summary	3,181	15,071
Background	2,725	2,725
Early activity	3,671	3,671
Peak to late activity	5,494	5,494
Systems	12	94,688
Hurricane Adrian	3,353	3,353
Hurricane Beatriz	5,704	5,704
Hurricane Calvin	6,481	6,481
Tropical Depression Four-E	1,695	1,695
Hurricane Dora	6,808	6,808
Tropical Storm Eugene	2,768	2,768
Hurricane Fernanda	5,763	5,763
Tropical Storm Greg	3,177	3,177
Hurricane Hilary	9,044	9,044
Tropical Storm Irwin	2,249	2,249
Hurricane Jova	5,241	5,241
Tropical Depression Twelve-E	3,150	3,150
Tropical Storm Kenneth	3,887	3,887
Tropical Depression Fourteen-E	2,535	2,535
Hurricane Lidia	7,837	7,837
Tropical Storm Max	3,702	3,702
Hurricane Norma	7,201	7,201
Hurricane Otis	3,150	3,150
Tropical Storm Pilar	7,622	7,622
Tropical Storm Ramon	3,309	3,309
Storm names	2,277	3,589
Retirement	1,312	1,312
Season effects	5,987	5,987
See also	675	675
Notes	34	34
References	28	28
External links	588	588
Total	132,931	132,931

Specialized archives: ACE calcs

Other basin talkpages (2023): Atlantic - W. Pacific - Central and East Pacific - N. Indian - S. Hemisphere

Record latest in East Pacific

If a tropical depression does not form in the East Pacific today (June 25th, 2023) then it will be the latest since the reliable records began. Should I wait until the first named storm to add the "record latest in basin" to the "first storm formed" parameter? HurricaneDeci (talk) 03:23, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tropical Storm Agatha on July 2, 2016, is the latest first-named storm to develop in the eastern Pacific basin according to Dr. Phil Klotzbach.[1] Regarding adding "record latest in basin" to the "first storm formed" infobox field, I would say wait until there is an actual date in that field and a citation that validates the statement. Drdpw (talk) 04:22, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, that works. Thanks! HurricaneDeci (talk) 15:33, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tropical Storm Ava in 1969 is the other latest first named storm along with Agatha - 2604:2D80:E906:7800:D902:FEB9:E3B6:5BE8 (talk) 00:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dora image (Discussion #1)

Superseded by #Dora's Peak image

Images

For reference, the first image is 20 minutes before the second.

!votes

Support Option 1 as the eye is a little more defined and convection in the eyewall is a little more symmetric. ~ Hiking Hurricane _(contribs) 18:05, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Option 2 - more circular, stable, and defined; other image is near the end of an eye formation. foobarbaz

* Actually, nah. @HikingHurricane, I'll allow you to change it if it makes you happy. foobarbaz 21:17, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You permission is irrelevant. Drdpw (talk) 22:50, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning toward #2 I like positioning of Dora in #1 but prefer the brighter clouds in #2. The two were, after all, taken only minutes apart. Drdpw (talk) 22:59, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No 1 It is brighter and Dora has a better defined eyewall. 2600:8802:63A0:BD00:7C60:E6D2:C453:C84 (talk) 15:22, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Dora has a new peak intensity, the old one is not relevant anymore. foo bar baz 03:02, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Dora record

I have noticed that Dora had intensified three times in its trajectory, which makes me indicate that Dora would break several records with past tropical cyclones. Dora quickly intensified three times, something very rare or usual like Cyclone Freddy that had intensified seven times in February of the current year. МОДОКАУ 21:04, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Noting that would be original research, unless a reliable secondary source makes note of it. And even then, not every distinction is noteworthy, let alone "a record". Drdpw (talk) 21:23, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New Dora image

Superseded by #Dora's Peak image

Image 1	Image 2

Both are twenty minutes apart, again. I'm going with Image 2 foobarbaz 01:33, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support Image 1 – eye is a little more defined. ~ Hiking Hurricane _(contribs) 02:31, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

i’d recommend you just be WP:BOLD and add one of the pictures, they’re very similar and, as you stated, only 20 mins apart Jay Tee 🕊️ 18:56, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dora's Peak image

Image 1	Image 2	Image 3

Good morning my fellow editors I know this is the third time bring this problem up but we need to put this to rest for good so I noticed that there is a lot of images of Hurricane Dora that is near or at peak intensity and we need a vote on which one we are going to use before this storm dissipates before an edit possible war ensues. Honestly I think we should maybe try to upload maybe two images around peak intensity so image edit wars be avoided. We had similar problems 3 years ago back in 2020, where multiple people uploaded images minutes or a couple of hours apart, for example here. This is why me personally usually I upload three images or four image per day spaced out, one in the morning one in the afternoon one in the evening, and one at night in exceptional circumstances because I don't want people fighting or editing over other between images minutes or a couple of hours apart.

My vote personally is Image #3 because it is more zoomed out and more representative of the storm, and the image is more than 6 hours apart from the other two.

TheWxResearcher (talk) 10:39, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image 1 – Policy is to use a daytime image unless the storm was >5 kt stronger at night. ~ Hiking Hurricane _(contribs) 21:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Image 2: better definition and brighter than #1. I do like the wider view provided in #3 as well. Drdpw (talk) 22:32, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I do like image 2 as well, but the pure white (255, 255, 255) pixels in the eyewall lead me to prefer image 1. ~ Hiking Hurricane _(contribs) 23:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@HikingHurricane: Your edits to both commons files have made each of them look dingy. Drdpw (talk) 23:52, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say that Image 3 has something on it (idk what those bar thingies called, static?) that I don't like, has an almost pure white eye, has too much unwanted space, and is a nighttime image, so I'll go with either Image 1 or Image 2 (also following WP:WPTC/IMG) foo bar baz 08:51, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Image 1 – I personally believe that this image has the best lighting and shows off the annular characteristics of the storm the best. Image 3, in my opinion, doesn't feature a good view of the storm from the top down due to how zoomed-out it is, the storm's eye not being fully cleared out at that time, and that the image was taken at night. Image 2 is too dark and makes the storm unclear from the satellite imagery, and doesn't show its annular characteristics as well as the first image, so I think the first image would be the best option for the storm. ChrisWx (talk - contribs) 23:59, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
ChrisWx definitely raises some good points, I might switch to Image 1. foo bar baz 22:33, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This became way more complicated than it needed to be, what with the multiple intensity fluctuations and with alterations being made to the commons image files during the course of this discussion. I like the current iteration of image #1, which is presently being used in the infobox, and !vote for it to remain there.

Dora's Indirect Fatalities

Should we really include all the deaths from the Hawaiian wildfires as part of Dora's death toll? We don't count the deaths from the wildfires partially generated by Fausto in 2020, or Ophelia in 2017, as part of the seasonal death total in either of those seasons. Jay Tee 🕊️ 21:19, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

While our saying that the wildfire deaths are indirectly related to Dora is not technically wholly false/inaccurate, as there is a tertiary cause-&-effect link between Dora and the wildfires, it was not the winds from Dora that sparked the wildfires or that fanned their flames. Even in the media, the fire deaths are not being indirectly attributed to Dora. The connection between Dora and the winds that drove the wildfires is made, but not one between Dora and the great loss of life. Drdpw (talk) 16:02, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, so I feel they should be taken out of the lead and seasonal fatalities. Jay Tee 🕊️ 11:30, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Dora’s own page

Should Hurricane/Typhoon Dora have its own page? It caused many indirect deaths and was also successfully able to cross over the international line as a category 2 equivalent typhoon Insendieum (talk) 05:14, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As is always the case, if you want there to be a page on Hurricane Dora you can start a draft so you and others can edit it. If it meets the notability requirements it will get published. You don’t need to ask permission to start a draft or make a page. Jay Tee 🕊️ 16:04, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

JayTee32: Both a draft article and a direct to main space article have been started and both were subsequently redirected to this season article. Drdpw (talk) 16:27, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think that’s a premature move. Why did we get rid of the draft if Dora’s still active and is being increasingly discussed by secondary sources? Jay Tee 🕊️ 16:35, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: Draft has recently been revived: Draft:Hurricane Dora (2023). Drdpw (talk) 01:36, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dora already dissapated. Look at this. It already degraded into a depression . THis is JMA s last advisory. https://www.data.jma.go.jp/multi/cyclone/cyclone_detail.html?id=61&lang=en 2600:8802:63A0:BD00:7C60:E6D2:C453:C84 (talk) 15:15, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

it was before dora dissipated so we already know 103.183.193.235 (talk) 07:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

i’m well aware that Dora has dissipated. it was active four days ago, when I made the original comment. Jay Tee 🕊️ 11:31, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

well actually now its a subtropical depression so it hasn’t dissipated yet.. maybe now there should be a page considering its been active for the last 22 days 103.183.193.235 (talk) 11:11, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That is not a valid reason for deletion by WP:DEFUNCT. DarkSide830 (talk) 23:11, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unrelenting Hurricane Dora makes history by becoming a typhoon,Hurricane Dora just accomplished this rare feat.--T.P.Lin (talk) 14:05, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to hear it. Jay Tee⛈️ 00:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Dora track illustration

The figure in the upper right of the page seems to be showing Dora erroneously close to Hawaii. E.g. compare to [2]https://www.wunderground.com/article/safety/hurricane/news/2023-08-07-hurricane-dora-tropical-storm-eugene-remnant-pacific Userino (talk) 03:49, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Userino, that's the track of Hurricane Calvin earlier in the season. That summary map was last updated on July 23 and doesn't show Dora yet (nor Eugene or Fernanda). ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 04:56, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Hilary (2023)

I moved Hurricane Hilary (2023) out of draft space and it seems like the right place for details such as what's currently listed at #Current storm information. ☆ Bri (talk) 17:39, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure I'll be heavy opposed on this, but I really think this article should be draftified by WP:DELAY and WP:CRYSTAL. We can't assume this storm's impacts will be notable enough for an article at this time. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:20, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:List of Nevada hurricanes

Seeing as Hilary's impacts are spreading across the southwest United States, I thought I'd mention that we have articles for List of California hurricanes and List of Arizona hurricanes. I wondered if there was enough for a list of Nevada hurricanes, considering it isn't that far from the coast. I know there is at least Hilary and Nora in 1997, plus the storms listed among the wettest storms in the state. I created a draft, in case anyone has the interest in working on it. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 05:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Dora's subtropical depression part to the summary map

While the CPHC did not recognize it, the JTWC had Dora as a subtropical depression after re-entry. I am wondering if this should be added to the summary map, as this was done in 2002 for a storm (I believe it was Maysak?). Sria-72 (talk) 02:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hilary hits California questions

Numerous sources have stated that: Hilary was the first tropical storm to hit Southern California in 84 years. A few sources (including one cited in this article) have stated: Nora was the last tropical storm to enter California or Arizona. How are both accurate? What should be stated in this and in the Hilary article? Drdpw (talk) 17:00, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Drdpw If I understand correctly, once Hilary moved into California several news sources stated it was the first tropical storm there in 84 years because they only counted tropical cyclones that actually made landfall on the state, and focused more on storms that struck California then ones that crossed in from Mexico, like Hilary (and thereby incorrectly attributed Hilary to making a landfall there). For complete accuracy (and to avoid any WP:OR), I think only the sources that state the storm was the first to move into California since 1997’s Nora should be used. Jay Tee 🕊️ 13:47, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Beatriz image

Image 1	Image 2

Which image should be used since Pogowo opposes my image changing? Pinging @Pogowo since he did not establish consensus before reverting. I'm voting Image 1. foo bar baz 03:53, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image 2 as it's a more clearly defined picture, and Beatriz looks more organized and representative of its intensity comparatively. Jay Tee 🕊️ 19:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image 2 Closer to peak intensity, shows the storm more well defined with a clear center being apparent, which is lacking in image 1. RandomInfinity17 (talk - contributions) 00:11, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image 2 which, as others have stated, presents a better picture of Beatriz. Drdpw (talk) 00:42, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image 2 looks better to me. ChessEric 18:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image 2 is clearly better, however it is too bright so you can't see the features of the storm too well. ~ Sandy 14156 (Talk ✉️) 17:20, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image 2 is really more better since it's clearer.

Some hurricane (talk) 00:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tropical Depression Four-E (2023)

There was a best track of Tropical Depression Four-E, from July 20-21. Credit: Microsoft Word - EP042023_Four-E.docx (noaa.gov) SpicySweets (talk) 11:45, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the notif - I've updated the duration and added a citation to the Tropical Cyclone Report. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 15:54, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. SpicySweets (talk) 16:58, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Lidia (2023)

Can anyone help out the Lidia article? I wrote the MH. This storm is about to make landfall - if it's bad it might be on the main page soon. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:05, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I could help! Jay Tee⛈️ 16:11, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Depression 17e

It already formed! Where is its section? 2600:8802:1712:2B00:AC10:D0BC:C68D:9A3B (talk) 22:19, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No it didn't. The NHC site doesn't have anything.--Jasper Deng (talk) 22:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Norma

I think hurricane Norma should have an article Addyisastrawberry (talk) 20:33, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a draft, though it is thin on content, and contains nothing beyond what is already in this article. Drdpw (talk) 20:39, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be willing to work on it- I'm currently developing a Max article as well in my sandbox. Jay Tee⛈️ 01:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@JayTee32: As Max is a less noteworthy storm, please consider switching your attention to Draft:Hurricane Norma (2023). (Hurricane Lidia (2023) also needs expansion.) Drdpw (talk) 01:48, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Drdpw: I already finished the page, it passes WP:GNG and has sufficient info for its own article, so I'd greatly appreciate it if you don't unilaterally get rid of this page as you did with the last two articles I created. I'd be glad to focus my energies on Norma now. Jay Tee⛈️ 22:02, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At first glance, your Max article looks fine to me, and it contains more information than could be fit into this article. Drdpw (talk) 22:11, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Otis

Can someone add the newest cone from the NHC and stuff for Otis, considering it is now a Cat 3, likely to hit as a Cat 4, and the cone in Otis's area is the one from 10 PM last night when it was 50 MPH and not expected to be higher than like 80 MPH. I would do it myself but I'm still getting used to editing Wiki and don't want to mess it up the following is the current cone as of 22:13 UTC [3] Blueony (talk) 22:13, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Blueony: I agree that an update was overdue; I just took care of this over at Wikimedia Commons, coincidentally without having yet seen your post here. --Dylan620 (he/him · talk · edits) 23:04, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Otis damage

Otis’s total damage ( as of November 5 2023 ) is up to $12 Billion, which surpasses Hurricane Manuel from 2013 as the costliest pacific Hurricane on record. If verified, will this be noted in the article soon ( oh and this will make the 2023 Pacific Hurricane Season the costliest on record overall ) 2601:80:CB00:1260:BD2E:8A97:460E:35BF (talk) 23:45, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We are going to need an external source for the claim it explictly is the costliest Pacific hurricane on record just fwiw. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:39, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Track Map

Is anyone able to update the track map? Looks like it hasn't been adjusted since September and it falls outside of my skill range. Jay Tee⛈️ 03:29, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@JayTee32: I've updated it. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 21:26, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Jay Tee⛈️ 03:21, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The current track map for hurricane Calvin has an incorrect depression dot in the midst of the Precursor LP dots, leading a viewer to believe that Calvin became a depression prior to July 11, which is not true officially. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GoldGamer32 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Costliest hurricane season?

I couldnt find any other season with more than 5 billion dollars in damage. Is this the costliest season? 2600:1014:B1A2:E40E:0:1D:4F67:DA01 (talk) 01:56, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably, but that can’t be added unless it has a source. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 02:04, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The list of costliest Pacific Hurricanes needs to be adjusted for inflation. This would fall under WP:CALC. Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:51, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Hilary

was anyone else expecting it to be retired? I'm suprised it wasn't, considering it caused $915 million in damage, was a rare California tropical storm, and caused major flooding. 2600:1014:B1E4:804B:0:1D:97AE:1101 (talk) 12:15, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello new user, please keep in mind that talk pages are not a forum for general discussion about the subject of the article. If you have any specific changes or improvements to the page you wish to discuss, then you can discuss them here. Jay Tee⛈️ 13:00, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to merge Tropical Storm Pilar (2023) into 2023 Pacific hurricane season. (non-admin closure) Aviationwikiflight (talk) 09:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I propose merging Tropical Storm Pilar (2023) into 2023 Pacific hurricane season. It was a pretty weak and not notable storm as it only caused very little damage and fatalities, plus the fact that it is a pretty short page that could be comfortably merged into this article.
also I should feel the need to mention this; Fernand of 2013 caused way more deaths than this storm, and that page was merged. AccordTM (talk) 13:04, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Pilar's section here is already too long for merging and adding other details that have been included in the storm's main article, which is why a separate article was created in the first place. Furthermore, the storm did cause some considerable damage, and a 65 mph storm is not a "pretty weak" system in my book. CycloneYoris ^talk! 23:58, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - most of the content is a duplicate of what's in the season section. The only thing that's different is a little bit of the impact, but that's not enough to keep the article. The section in the season article is 383 words long, and the Pilar article (excluding lead) is only 508 words. I think the additional 125 words can be merged easily into the season article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:42, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - per @CycloneYoris. Shmego2 (talk) 01:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shmego2 (talk · contribs), could you reply to the fact that Pilar's article is only 508 words, which is only 125 more words than what's in the season article, which would not put the article over the size limit. Care to respond? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:13, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: The article is short, and same reasoning as @Hurricanehink.AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 00:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: The key details about this storm are well-covered in the season article, and this article adds little additional information unique to this article can easily be merged. Drdpw (talk) 16:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support this article is only 4,005 words so can handle the extra content. 192.31.0.14 (talk) 18:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per above. _ZZ^Z 'S 18:45, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.