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Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 November 3

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November 3

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Obsolete community sanctions templates

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was relisted on 2020 November 12. Izno (talk) 08:17, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Media family tree template

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete all except Template:Addams family tree (no consensus). No prejudice against speedy renomination for a focused discussion. — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:41, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Per the same reasons Woodroar gave below for in #Template:Metal Gear family tree, all of these templates fail WP:NOR and WP:FANCRUFT. Outside of this info not being sourced in the templates, this info, if it was sourced, would be much better as prose rather than templates like this. Of note, these have all been created by the same user, Cassandra872. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:21, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@EEMIV: Solid lines mean biological children, while dashed lines refer to adopted children/mentorships described as mother/father figures. For the most part, I have only created family trees where multiple members of family have their own individual articles to link back to, like with Template:Skywalker family tree. So with the Template:Addams family tree, that would be linked to on both the main and individual pages. Cassandra872 (talk) 16:10, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Template:Addams family tree and Delete the rest. There is no original research used for this particular template as enough reliable sources back the content up. The Addams family in particular has a-lot of out of universe info regarding the family as that is what the series is based on. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 20:17, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • To closing admin: Some of the templates, such as Template:Batman family tree were subset into the article and the template redirected by the template creator. Even trying to assume good faith here, I find this very out of process. Please note that if the result is to delete, the content itself should be removed from the articles in question. --Gonnym (talk) 08:58, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • It was the Batman, Corleone, and Soprano templates that were like that. I've restored them to the template space, because I don't feel the info should be mass moved out of the template space, which looks like the creator is trying to circumvent the discussion process. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:55, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Metal Gear family tree

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:30, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template fails WP:NOR and WP:NOTGUIDE/WP:FANCRUFT. In-universe content needs to be supported by reliable, third-party published sources. All of these sources are primary. But there's a bigger issue: even if everything here was sourced, the template still wouldn't be encyclopedic on Wikipedia. Reliable, third-party sources are rarely so comprehensive to support a family tree like this. Including this on articles about individual characters would be WP:UNDUE. Now it may be appropriate to include a family tree on the main article about a series or perhaps one about its characters—again, assuming that it's properly sourced, which isn't the case here—but we don't need should never have a template for that single use. Woodroar (talk) 00:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC) Adding to my !vote here with another reason why templates are bad for content like this: they make it more difficult to edit that content because it's actually another page entirely. This is part of the reason why we have guidelines like MOS:TEXTASIMAGES and use editable SVGs whenever possible. Woodroar (talk) 13:11, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Woodroar: I have just reliably sourced everything. What would you improve upon? Cassandra872 (talk) 11:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm seeing a couple of reliable sources and several more questionable and unreliable sources. Even the reliable sources don't put much emphasis on the family relationship aspect, so why should Wikipedia care? After all, we're here to summarize what reliable, third-party sources say, not synthesize our own in-universe fan content. And this doesn't even address the bigger issue: these family trees are UNDUE on character articles but maybe encyclopedic on a single main article, if sourced. Templates simply aren't the solution for this kind of content. Woodroar (talk) 13:46, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, as per reasoning from Woodroar. Unconvinced that the creator of the family tree templates understands that they are UNDUE on character articles, or understands the distinction between primary sources and reliable independent third-party sources. Haleth (talk) 14:09, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
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