Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tesla Model S/archive1
Tesla Model S (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
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- Nominator(s): 750h+ 12:51, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
This is my fifth featured article nomination, after doing four successful nominations on Aston Martin cars. This article is about one of the most important and influential electric vehicles of the 21st century. This is a 5,600-word article with c. 280 references, meaning it is the longest and most-referenced article I've brought here. I believe this article, however, is excellently written, well-referenced, and comprehensive, making for a great read. I plan to win the half-million award with this one, so any comments I receive i'll appreciate; and thanks for reviewing! 750h+ 12:51, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
UC
[edit]Lots of comments
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More to follow. UndercoverClassicist T·C 16:22, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
It has, though I'll admit to knowing very little about cars or Tesla. A few more:
Stopping here for now; more to follow, I hope. UndercoverClassicist T·C 19:20, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
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- @UndercoverClassicist: okay i think that should be it 750h+ 15:36, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- A few replies above. Honestly, my feeling from reading this is that, like all of our articles, it has been written by people who are interested in the topic, and -- like most such articles -- generally like the thing they are writing about. I still think that it's a little too quick to downplay or excuse the negative side of its subject, and to take what (particularly) Tesla say about it on trust.
- I have added all the possible background to the vehicles affected by the recalls, but didn't go too into detail (I think). Thoughts, @UndercoverClassicist:? 750h+ 18:05, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- @UndercoverClassicist: do you have anymore comments? 750h+ 03:24, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- I have added all the possible background to the vehicles affected by the recalls, but didn't go too into detail (I think). Thoughts, @UndercoverClassicist:? 750h+ 18:05, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've just given the article another read, and made some minor copyedits. I think I am probably now at the limit of my competence -- the grammar and formatting are better, though there are still a few minor things to look at (particularly full stops after footnotes and MOS:SAID throughout). However, I still have the same impression about POV and coverage, but don't have enough expertise in the subject matter to put my name to it that the article does or doesn't accurately cover all that has been written on the topic. As such, I'll leave this one as comments and wait to see what reviewers with more grounding in Tesla have to say -- may well come back later on and cast a vote. Apologies to leave it "open" after so much work on both sides, but hopefully it feels that this has still been a useful exercise thus far. UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:52, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks for the thorough review. 750h+ 08:13, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- A few replies above. Honestly, my feeling from reading this is that, like all of our articles, it has been written by people who are interested in the topic, and -- like most such articles -- generally like the thing they are writing about. I still think that it's a little too quick to downplay or excuse the negative side of its subject, and to take what (particularly) Tesla say about it on trust.
Comments by Epicgenius
[edit]I am going to review this article. This is a long article, so it might take a while. I should note that, while 750h+ alerted me to this nomination on my user talk page, these observations and opinions are entirely my own. – Epicgenius (talk) 13:22, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Epicgenius: just making sure you still want to review? 750h+ 23:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- @750h+, sorry about that. I've had very limited access to my computer over the last 3 days. I'll leave some comments on Thursday. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- okay, thanks 750h+ 00:31, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- @750h+, sorry about that. I've had very limited access to my computer over the last 3 days. I'll leave some comments on Thursday. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- Lead:
- Para 1: "the Model S is frequently regarded as one of the most significant and influential electric cars in the industry." - I'd hesitate to say that it has been "frequently" regarded as such, at least without a source specifically saying so, but it would be appropriate to say that it "has been regarded by many critics" as such.
- Para 2: "To produce the Model S, Tesla acquired a facility in Fremont, California, from Toyota, which had previously been used by Toyota and General Motors." - Do we need to include this detail about the facility's previous owners in the lead? I feel like this may not be an important detail.
- Para 3: Might it be worth mentioning the car's other features, e.g. Autopilot and supercharging? The paragraph does a good job of describing the design/technical features of the Model S, but the consumer features aren't mentioned as prominently. (Actually, the "Technology" section isn't really summarized at all in the lead.)
- Para 4: "In 2015, the Model S was the world's best-selling plug-in electric vehicle" - I think readers might be expecting a sales figure after a sentence like this. Probably not in the lead, but maybe in the "Production and initial deliveries" section.
- Para 4: The last quote mentions the Plaid, but the lead doesn't quite explain what the Plaid is.
- Development:
- Para 1: "In January 2007, the American automaker Tesla, Inc. opened a facility in Michigan" - If you're including a background section, you might also want to consider mentioning the fact that they weren't even producing cars at that point (and that the Model S was actually only Tesla's second-ever vehicle model).
- Para 1: "The second was to be a range-extending vehicle" - So a hybrid-electric car basically?
- no, range-extenders are different
- Oh, okay. I thought this was referring to a hybrid-electric design. Epicgenius (talk) 14:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Para 2: "He signed an $875,000 contract to design the car." - I'd change "He" to "Fisker" for the avoidance of doubt.
- Para 2: "Fisker ultimately won the lawsuit in November 2008" - Is the word "ultimately" necessary here?
- Para 3: "Tesla frequently tested the car on public roads; it had 120 miles (190 km) of all-electric range per charge and weighed more than the Roadster." - These should probably be two separate sentences, since the two ideas are completely separate.
- Para 4: "stating that the non-battery-pack portion of the vehicle must be lighter than equivalent gasoline vehicles" - To clarify, did Musk say the non-battery-pack portion had to be lighter than the entire gasoline vehicle?
- yes, so everything excluding the battery pack had to be lighter than the vehicles themselves
- I see. Epicgenius (talk) 14:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Para 4: "while another arrived at 9 p.m." - The arrival time of the night shift seems like a rather trivial detail to include.
- Para 5: "later withdrew from both plans" - Do the sources mention why?
- i added a bit
- Para 6: "The car's launch event occurred in a section of the facility where the cars are completed" - This detail also seems quite trivial.
- More in a bit. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:54, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Addressed all, and if i haven't then i left some comments left. Thanks! 750h+ 05:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Design:
- Para 1: "The Model S shares its platform and thirty percent of its parts with the Model X" - Not really an issue per se, but I feel like this isn't unexpected since both the S and the X are by the same manufacturers.
- it would be. Different car manufacturers sell different cars that use completely different components. For example the Tesla Model 3 and the Tesla Model Y share 76 percent of their parts yet would share less than 10 percent with the Model S and the Model X
- Oh, I see. Yeah, if the 3/Y are very different from the S/X, then it might be noteworthy that the S/X share 30% of their parts. (What I meant to say was that I would expect car models from a single manufacturer to use similar components, such as the 3/S/X/Y sharing many of their components, but since the 3/Y share very few components with the S/X, this goes against my assumption.) Epicgenius (talk) 17:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
- Para 1: "The vehicle's drag coefficient was improved by a solid front fascia instead of a grille, " - Would the black nose cone in the image right next to this paragraph count as a fascia? As mentioned later on in the article, the sealed-off fascia wasn't added until 2016; before that, the S had the nose cone.
- i guess, i mean the image has its front fascia but there are better ones below
- Para 1: "The Model S has a center of gravity height of 18 inches (460 mm),[73][74] reducing the risk of rollovers." - Is this reduced risk because of the lower center-of-gravity height?
- yes
- Para 2: "The car's rear trunk possesses 26.6 cubic feet (750 L) of storage with the rear seats upright and 58.1 cubic feet (1,650 L) when the seats are folded down." - Some Model Ss contain backward-facing jump seats in the trunk for young children, which can also be folded down (giving the car 7 seats rather than the standard 5). Is this talking about the children's seats in the trunk, or the seats in the second row?
- i added some info on that
- Para 2: "Initially, the seats and steering wheel of the Model S were made exclusively of leather." - I'm not sure about this. If I recall correctly, early buyers could choose between synthetic leather or actual leather. (The real leather option was more expensive than the synthetic leather option, but they had a distinctively different feel.)
- Also, I'm pretty sure there were other add-ons you could buy, like children's jump seats and sunroofs.
- i don't think these are very necessary
- Fair enough - these are fairly minor details. Epicgenius (talk) 17:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
- i don't think these are very necessary
- Speaking of which, I think some of the features mentioned in "Technology", like Tesla Autopilot and supercharging, used to be add-ons that didn't come with the car by default. The oldest Model Ss (specifically the 40 kWh and some of the 60 kWh from ~2013) didn't even have the ability to supercharge. Not sure if that's worth mentioning, or if there's even a source for these, though.
- the initial 40kwh model never came to production actually. supercharging was available from late 2012, so only 6 months after Model S production began. Added more on the charging methods.
- According to TechCrunch and Wired, there was a 40 kWh model produced in 2013, but it was a software-limited version of the 60 kWh model. It seems like the software-limited 40 kWh model did have the ability to supercharge (it just wasn't enabled by default), so my bad. Epicgenius (talk) 17:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
- the initial 40kwh model never came to production actually. supercharging was available from late 2012, so only 6 months after Model S production began. Added more on the charging methods.
- More in a bit. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:37, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Addressed 750h+ 03:59, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
- 2012–2016: Initial years:
- Para 2: "Instead, a more powerful model with a 60 kWh model, was introduced to substitute the 40 kWh model." - I think you could still mention that, even though the hardware-limited 40 kWh model was never built, a few 60 kWh vehicles were software-limited to 40 kWh. (I say this because, in the next section, you mention the fact that some of the 75 kWh models were software-limited to 60 kWh.)
- Para 4: "Tesla launched the standard 90D and the performance P90D" - What model year?
- I notice that the article says "all-electric range", even though the Model S is all electric. Would this be redundant (i.e. could it just be "range"), or do you need to specify that this is in fact all-electric range?
- 2016–2019: First major update:
- Para 1: "the previous contrasting-colored grille" - The original grille wasn't contrasting-colored so much as black. If you had a black Model S, the original grille would be the same color as the rest of the car, like this.
- i don't think this is worth mentioning; i feel like the customer would know
- What I meant to say was that the grille should be described as "dark" or "black", not "contrasting-colored", which seems factually incorrect when referring to dark Model Ss. Epicgenius (talk) 02:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Para 2: "Customers also had the option to upgrade the battery capacity to 75 kWh through an over-the-air update," - Strictly speaking, you could get the update only if you had a newer 60 kWh model (and only if you paid for it, but I think that goes without saying). Pre-2015 60 kWh models are hardware-limited, and if you owned one of these, you'd have to buy a whole new battery if you wanted to upgrade.
- Para 3: "In 2019, Tesla also phased out the 75D, 100D, and P100D variants as part of the company's shift towards a revamped model range.[150][151]" - I feel like this belongs in the next section, because that section talks about what the 75D, 100D, and P100D were replaced with.
- i think this is ok, since it's still referring to the pre-simplified naming scheme
- In that case, I would recommend mentioning that the 75D/100D/P100D were replaced with other models, rather than merely phased out. The way it's currently worded, it sounds like the models were phased out without replacement (at least, for people who don't read on to the next section). Unfortunately, readers these days sometimes tend to not read the full article, instead only reading a particular subsection and skipping the rest, so it might be helpful to mention that they were not just phased out but replaced. Epicgenius (talk) 02:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Done. 750h+ 03:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- 2019–present: Simplified naming scheme:
- Para 1: "For 2020, the Long Range model was replaced with the Long Range Plus" - Also 100 kWh?
- yep
- Para 2: "In 2024, the Model S received restyled taillights." - The note says "As of July 2024, there are no reliably sourced reports explicitly regarding the updated taillights", implying a bit of uncertainty. Therefore, shouldn't this be "By 2024, the Model S had received restyled taillights"?
- More to come. – Epicgenius (talk) 14:33, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- All done (with responses) 750h+ 23:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- Technology:
- Para 1: The source is from 2012, and as a result, several parts of the section are outdated. This source might be more up-to-date, but it's still talking about an old version of the software. The screen currently looks more like this (YouTube link), which is substantially different from the 2012 version of the software.
- "Below that, the second section provides access to various apps, such as Media, Navigation, Energy, Web, Camera, and Phone." - This was the case when the S came out. However, the apps are currently near the bottom. I'll try to find a source for this, but it sounds like the article is describing how the apps were originally arranged. If there's no source, we can leave out where exactly the second section is (e.g. you can just say that the interface also provides access to various apps, such as Media, Navigation, Energy, Web, Camera, and Phone.)
- "with most apps expandable to fill the entire screen." - Similarly, I'm not too sure about this. This was true in 2012, but may not be true now. Currently, several apps (like music and camera) can't be expanded to fit the full screen; you'll still see the navigation app in the background even when expanding these apps as much as possible. The full-screen thing could probably be left out, given that it's not necessarily true anymore.
- "The bottom section contains controls and settings for the vehicle, including doors, locks, lights, temperature settings, and a secondary volume control." - Whew, at least that hasn't changed.
- Para 2: "Also for 2021 refresh" - Should this be "Also for the 2021 refresh"?
- Para 3: "Released in October 2015 as a software update" - Although this is only for cars that actually have AP equipment. The oldest Model Ss don't have the ability to use Autopilot, regardless of whether they were updated.
- i think every Model S has autopilot equipment
- Tesla says this functionality isn't available for cars built before September 2014. At least one old Model S was retrofitted with it, but I don't know if this is a service Tesla offers. Epicgenius (talk) 11:06, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- I meant that after October 2015 it was a software update but later became standard 750h+ 12:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- I see what you mean. I was trying to say, it may be helpful to mention that the first Model S's with AP were manufactured in September 2014. The current phrasing might give the impression that AP equipment exists on all Model S's made since 2012 (which isn't true). Epicgenius (talk) 13:30, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Done (i think) 750h+ 23:50, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- I see what you mean. I was trying to say, it may be helpful to mention that the first Model S's with AP were manufactured in September 2014. The current phrasing might give the impression that AP equipment exists on all Model S's made since 2012 (which isn't true). Epicgenius (talk) 13:30, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Also, since the last two paragraphs talk about Autopilot, it may be worth considering splitting this into a subsection. Though I won't mind if you don't.
- Para 1: The source is from 2012, and as a result, several parts of the section are outdated. This source might be more up-to-date, but it's still talking about an old version of the software. The screen currently looks more like this (YouTube link), which is substantially different from the 2012 version of the software.
- More in a bit. – Epicgenius (talk) 03:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Done with comments 750h+ 09:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
- Sounds good. I'll have further comments on Thursday. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:42, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Done with comments 750h+ 09:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC)