User talk:Rannoch1502

July 31st

Hi there, I noticed you added Baron of Rannoch to the Baronage of Scotland page. Lord of Rannoch is already listed on the Lords in the Baronage of Scotland page.

Is this a barony or has it been raised to a lordship?

It won't be listed on the barony page if it's a lordship.

Also you left reference links to Debretts but Rannoch is not listed. We can only include the title and baron if it can be verified in a relevant source. Kellycrak88 (talk) 16:46, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kellycrak88. Sorry for the delay. Wow, this is interesting. Rannoch was never a lordship (as far as I can tell) only a barony - The Menzies family held it as a barony until about 1912. Here is the charter in the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland creating the barony of 'Rannach' on 1 Sep 1502: https://archive.org/details/registrummagnisi02scot/page/566/mode/2up

I looked at the lordship page, and it contains my coat of arms (although it says the barony is held by a trust, which is incorrect). As far as Debrett's is concerned, the Forum for the Baronage of Scotland is updating Debrett's listings, and my information will (eventually) be included. Rannoch1502 (talk) 18:54, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the page was it raised to a Lordship or is just a barony? Please update the page with updated info and lots of reference link sources. Then we'll be able to add to you to the main page Kellycrak88 (talk) 20:30, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. The Menzies family never became lords of parliament in Scotland, only baronets, so Rannoch was only ever a barony (I have no way to prove a negative - i.e., that is isn't a lordship - so that has to be taken on faith.

Lots of reference link sources might be a problem - there aren't many, and those are writs at the NRS in Edinburgh. The above link to the Register of the Great Seal of Scotland, Vol. II establishes the original charter (I'll edit what I can): https://archive.org/details/registrummagnisi02scot/page/566/mode/2up

The information on the original Wikipedia page (before things were migrated over...) was written by Brian Hamilton of Barony Titles, who called it the 'Lordship and Barony of Rannoch' (which is correct only in the sense that the baron of Rannoch was also 'lord' of his barony of Menzies further south).

On a positive note, my possession of the barony is now established on Debrett's: https://debretts.com/directories/other-titles-2/the-feudal-baronies-of-scotland/ Rannoch1502 (talk) 06:54, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again. I made some corrections on the 'Lord of Rannoch' page, added some credible references, and included the link to Debrett's feudal barons page at the bottom (on which I'm listed). What I cannot figure out is how to shift the 'Lord of Rannoch' page to the 'List of Baronies in the Baronage of Scotland' on the 'Baronage of Scotland' page. Rannoch1502 (talk) 07:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can move the page to Baron of Rannoch if you prefer. Can you please edit the page adding your name etc and we can then history and nobility box, arms, etc. Kellycrak88 (talk) 08:51, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please confirm what is has been recorded as with the Scottish Barony Register as that will define it.

Was it a Barony or Lordship with the SBR?

Please also confirm if it's enrolled with the SBR. Kellycrak88 (talk) 15:22, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

have you emailed https://www.registryofscotsnobility.com/baronage/ (chancellor@registryofscotsnobility.com) for an entry? Kellycrak88 (talk) 15:34, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please do move the 'Baron of Rannoch' page to the Baronage of Scotland > List of titled nobles in the Baronage of Scotland > List of Baronies in the Baronage of Scotland - I will edit the page accordingly.

My grant is on the 106th page, 74th volume of the Public Register of All Arms and Bearings in Scotland, and I assume it's also in the Scottish Barony Register, which as far as I know can only be searched by Scottish solicitors.

It was always a barony, never a lordship.

I have communicated with the chancellor of the Registry of Scots Nobility, and I assume he will add me to his list relatively soon.

Originally, I never sought recognition from Burke's or any other group. However, since the Lord Lyon quit acknowledging baronies on new grants of arms, I decided to join the Forum for the Scottish Baronage and list my barony on Debrett's. I assume it will gradually disseminate from there. Burke's is outdated as far as I can tell, and Debrett's should have the most current information on baronies. Rannoch1502 (talk) 05:00, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

actually the other way around, burke's has the most legit and verified info, Debretts has very few barons listed they and they don't do proper checked and haven't don a good job researching their titles etc they list only 1 chief when there are 30 cheifs-barons here on wikipedia

both sources outdated of course as barons die and new ones succeed etc, the most up to date list is here on wikipedia, but Burkes is def the better authority and I encourage you to get a listing there

for SBR you would know if you're listed as you need to pay a registration fee, this can be arranged through a Scottish solicitor so please do so

In the meantime, your profile can be added but in pink colour coding, until you are confirmed in either SBR / Registry of Scots Nobility or Burke's Kellycrak88 (talk) 08:10, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

regarding Lyon it is futile dealing withe current one, there is a new Lydon being appointed in 2-3 years so there is hope, the baronage will be making a presentation to him, so I don't recommend pursuing scottish arms until there is a new direction there

If you want a letters patent in the meantime I recommend the Chief herald of malta who will recognise in letters patent with evidence Kellycrak88 (talk) 08:13, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the recommendation on Burke's - I will seek to get a listing. I know my barony title is in the SBR because my solicitor arranged for Alistair Rennie to provide a 'letter of comfort' to the Lyon at the time, David Sellar (I am looking at the letter right now dated 20 March 2013). I also have letters patent granting me the barony of Rannoch. How shall I present them to you? Rannoch1502 (talk) 04:45, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome to upload the images here? Kellycrak88 (talk) 10:12, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again. Thanks for the edits. The chancellor at the Registry of Scots Nobility has added my barony (although he put '16c' for the creation date - I will be giving him an update). I didn't really want my letters patent on Wikimedia Commons, so will this suffice? Thanks. Rannoch1502 (talk) 05:36, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 2024

Hello, Rannoch1502. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for article subjects for more information. We ask that you:

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