Talk:William B. Allen

'The State of Black America' Book Tour Appearance

Nccondor23 you wrote: he stated that "government destroyed the black family." I've gone to your source and added the text from there. I also downloaded the audio file and listened to it twice. I didn't find that quotation of yours. If you have a time code and I just missed it, let me know. Otherwise I am removing it as a fabricated quote. OckRaz ^talk 23:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

I'll fix it Nccondor23 (talk) 23:58, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

it's fixed. it was a quote from CURE, of which he is the lead scholar...

are we good for now? until I add the workgroup stuff at some later date, at least? Nccondor23 (talk) 00:04, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Putting quotation marks around the words suggests that he spoke them. That's a mis-attribution. If you put something in quotes, then it has to be properly attributed, which in this instance would mean assigning the phrase to CURE. OckRaz ^talk 00:08, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

it's been changed. Nccondor23 (talk) 00:11, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't mind your grammatical pedantry, it's been a good distraction in my current situation, but you overlook a lot to focus on my edits...including this biggie...the page starts with he is an American political scientist, but that category is NOT listed in the page's category section, nor is he a part of that category in wikipedia, though he clearly IS an American political scientist, regardless of his race.

you should turn your attention to that... Nccondor23 (talk) 00:23, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

i don't know how to change the categories.

i'll look into it though. OckRaz ^talk 00:49, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Cool.

Then look at this:

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/William_F._Buckley_Jr. Nccondor23 (talk) 00:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

maybe you'll prefer this one:

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice

you are letting your personal politics interfere with what Wikipedia is meant for.

The most important thing about William B. Allen at this moment in time is that he is a conservative political scientist/activist. That he does so in the garments of an academician is secondary to that fact. Nccondor23 (talk) 01:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

also, the idea that he is a conservative should automatically be considered pejorative by everyone who reads wikipedia says a lot about your ideology. Nccondor23 (talk) 01:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

and the fact that you can only consider William B. Allen's life and works in the context of how other African-American political scientists are written about on wikipedia says a lot about your bias, too. Nccondor23 (talk) 01:08, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

My bias is to keep his page consistent with the standards for pages about academics and not let people rewrite it in an arbitrary way just because they disapprove of his scholarship. OckRaz ^talk 01:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

you mean "African-American academics" (even though Condolezza Rice is an academic, so you must mean "male African-American academics" even though the "standard" exists only in your mind).

and if you think the truth is arbitrary while you arbitrarily chose a standard, you haven't a clue what Occam's razor is about.

you seem to have failed to note that I didn't write a single opinion on Allen's opinions. I merely wrote (and cited, far more thoroughly than the rest of the page) about his actual record.

the bias is yours. and the funny thing is that you think I'm a democrat! I hate both parties, and even started a party to end both parties back in the 90s. but you can't see beyond your preconceptions.

"William B. Allen is a conservative African American political scholar." There is no bias there, only truth. A truth that you willfully suppress and then hide behind what is, essentially, nothing. Nccondor23 (talk) 01:44, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

"you mean "African-American academics" - No, I don't. I said academic because that is what I meant. You're fixated on the category i chose being african american despite the fact that (as I have said repeatedly) I looked through that one because it was fastest. Don't project your bias on to me.

African-American political scientists

American social scientists

American political philosophers

African-American philosophers

20th-century American philosophers

21st-century American philosophers

20th-century African-American academics

20th-century American academics

21st-century African-American academics

21st-century American academics

any of those will work as templates for proper form. OckRaz ^talk 02:07, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

so, you chose the smallest category because you are lazy then?

why do you think that YOU and ONLY YOU, get to choose what the standard is? Nccondor23 (talk) 09:42, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

it's not a pejorative, but the unique inclusion of politics for him but not his colleagues

would be prejudicial unless you can...

>do it following the guidelines for public figures (WP:BLP)

>establish relevance for the inclusion (WP:NO) and

>properly source the material (WP:RS) OckRaz ^talk 01:44, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

his colleagues?

his colleagues are white, politically active men.

good lord!

your links are pure nonsense, he is clearly conservative (as referenced), it is clearly notable (by his actions, speaking out on news outlets like NPR), and it is clearly within the guidelines.

get over yourself! as if you own all of wikipedia and just rule by childish fiat. you may as well be a reddit mod, so greedy for power...

seriously, there are over 2 dozen other categories, but you insist his page must be like all the other black political scholars?

seriously, man, you're not politically agnostic at all...

the idea that calling a conservative a conservative is prejudiced? not agnostic, not truth seeking, just simply arrogant bullying, with a side of bigotry (see preceding paragraph). Nccondor23 (talk) 01:54, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

-his colleagues are university professors

-if its notable via WP:NO then you can add it, but you can't add it because your biased opinion is

-that his politics affected a school curriculum. your opinion isn't a source.

-WP:RS, WP:NO, WP:BLP are policies - not my preferences

-"you insist his page must be like all the other black political scholars" - ffs! no. i don't know how often i have to say this: it was the one i checked bc it was quicker. there are ten options. i looked through the shortest.

-i didn't say prejudiced. i said prejudicial (influencing people unfairly). i suspect that you want people to think his choices about the curriculum were based on politics instead of scholarship despite the fact that he is a scholar and not a politician. if you are seeking to subtly poison the well of public opinion AND it's a violation of wikipedia policy, then that's a problem. OckRaz ^talk 02:18, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

oh bullshit...

poison the well of public opinion by truthfully stating his political ideology?

what a crock of shit! 98.224.40.55 (talk) 09:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

you don't know what emeritus means do you? Nccondor23 (talk) 09:44, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

if you did, you would have said "former colleagues"

he is clearly operating in the political sphere, now. in fact it is clear that he always did. Nccondor23 (talk) 09:45, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Buckley was a political commentator, not an academic.

Rice is a political scientist, but notice it doesn't say "conservative political scientist" as you wanted to do. Her political party is featured in the introduction to her page because she was SECSTATE (a member of the Bush administration), which is partisan politics. Allen was CCR, which is nonpartisan/bipartisan. OckRaz ^talk 01:54, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

oh, and you'd have been fine with "political scientist that is also conservative"...yeah, right

just stop.

have your dumb page. mislead the world. like the rest of them.

Jimmy ain't getting my 5 bucks any more, that's for damn sure... Nccondor23 (talk) 01:58, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't believe anything you say anymore.

You are clearly motivated by your politics, which I presume you would state are libertarian, but are really just conservative. Nccondor23 (talk) 09:48, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Center for Urban Renewal and Education

"where he is lead scholar" - source? Nccondor23 the website days the lead scholar is Raheem Williams. Allen is listed as an advisor. OckRaz ^talk 02:28, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

jfc. Google CURE and William B Allen.ffs.

anything without a source gets deleted huh?

game on!

98.224.40.55 (talk) 09:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

editing this page

seems there are 3 people interested in this article at the moment. can we agree that everything needs an RS, per the BLP guidelines?

can we agree, at least by plurality, that this page does not need to be bound by other pages written about African American academics? I see no reason why it should, and that certainly is NOT in the guidelines.

can we agree that anything with an RS is fair game, as long as it is relevant to William B Allens life and career and disposed dispassionately per the BLP guidelines? Nccondor23 (talk) 10:30, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

OK by me.Rjensen (talk) 14:04, 28 July 2023 (UTC)