Talk:Titewhai Harawira

A news item involving Titewhai Harawira was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 29 January 2023.

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Ancestry

I am aware that it is a thorny or taboo subject in NZ, but why is there no mention of European/British ancestry? Without the picture one would assume that Harawira was entirely of Maori descent, but pictures make it clear that she had substantial (if not majority) Pakeha ancestry. Sheila1988 (talk) 11:53, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sheila1988: I'm not aware of it being taboo, but I simply didn't come across any reliable sources saying she had European/British ancestry. If there are sources available that say this, then the information can be added to the article. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 17:45, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to Geni, her mother's mother's father was Mordecai, a Jewish trader. He married Tuwahinenui Waekamania Shortland; their daughter was Heeni Maraea Kawiti, who was the mother of Haroka Iwi, who was mother of Titewhai Harawira. The data there seems pretty reliable but I know Geni is not considered an acceptable source. PDF, go to page 299 Sheila1988 (talk) 19:15, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for looking into it; that was an interesting PDF too! :) Agree, probably not sourced enough for inclusion in the article, but perhaps there will be some newspaper sources that cover her background in more detail; I'll have a look at the databases. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 23:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Te Hoia or Te Huia? (also Hellier as birth surname)

Reliable sources give her middle name as either Te Hoia or Te Huia.

Te Huia:

a memorial speech in Parliament given by Willie Jackson
Obituary on Stuff
Interview with Harawira on E-Tangata

Te Hoia:

Obituary on Te Ao Maori News
Obituary on Radio New Zealand
Obituary on The New Zealand Herald
Records page at the National Library of New Zealand

The article currently uses Te Hoia. I think the issue possibly needs to be explained in a footnote or by some other means, guided by the essay WP:CONFLICTING, but thought I'd flag it on the talk page here just in case anyone has any other views.

Another matter I wanted to flag is that only one source (the National Library source) gives Hellier as her last name at birth; no other sources do this, including the obituaries, and the genealogical websites noted in the previous section on this talk page don't give the last name Hellier for any of her ancestors as far as I can see (appreciating that these aren't a reliable source). I'm possibly minded to take it out, but don't have strong views about this. Chocmilk03 (talk) 22:39, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I looked into Harawira's ancestry. Her mother was Hinewhare Maude Edwards, aka Hinewhare Turikatuku Ruiha Nehua. She married Albert Percy Hellier in 1927. By 1930 the marriage was in trouble.[1] The couple divorced in 1933. Wainuiomartian (talk) 01:53, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Divorced 1933.[2] (note: this give's wife's surname as Turner, but I think that's a typo - the lawyer was Turner). Hinewhare/Maude's father was Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Nehua aka Jack Edwards. He died in 1942.[3] Hinewhare's mother was Teneti Nehua, died 1929.[4] (Death index gives her name as Neti Hone Nehua). And Hone Nehua/Jack Edward's parents were Eruera (Edward) Tupu Edwards aka Eru Nehua who died 1913,[5] and Te Tawaka Nehua.[6] Family trees online link these last two to Hone Nehua/Jack Edwards.Wainuiomartian (talk) 02:19, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Wainuiomartian: This is all very interesting, thank you! Great digging. Do we have any information about whether Albert Percy Hellier was Harawira's father, or is that not possible to tell from the information at hand? From the dates it seems like he could be, but it's not really clear. I guess it doesn't really matter if we don't have a reliable source, but am interested. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 02:30, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm assuming he was not the father, but I haven't found any source to tell me either way.Wainuiomartian (talk) 02:39, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Actually there are sources online that say Harawira was the eldest of 7 children. NatLIbrary says her birth surname was Hellier, which is where I started researching, but what if National Library is wrong?Wainuiomartian (talk) 05:29, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also see https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NA19221018.2.4 Wainuiomartian (talk) 02:37, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]