Talk:Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario

Education

If the Mount is closed, it is no longer a school, should it be removed from the list?Dbrodbeck 01:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Nah...it's valid to list former/closed schools on here, as long as they're designated as closed. Gives some perspective on the city's history. Bearcat 03:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Something else that strikes me odd, it seems, in the education section, that much more is made of the collaborative programmes between AUC SCAAT and LSU than are really warranted. Now I do not know much about Sault College, but, at Algoma U the number of students taking courses at LSSU can be counted on one hand. I wonder if there is a way to word this properly. Ideas? Dbrodbeck 22:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, how about something like this: "WHile both institutions do offer joint programs with LSSU the vast majority of students spend their entire college or University careers at AUC or SCAAT" (or some variant thereof) Dbrodbeck 17:16, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Radio and TV stations

Do not list stations licensed to Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan (anything with a W--- callsign) in this article, as they are not Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario stations. The section already links to the media section of SSM, Michigan's article. Bearcat 00:25, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Bawating

I have no accurate source, but I am fairly sure that "Bawating" is Ojibwa/Anishnabeg for "meeting place," as tribes from all over the region used the site that is now the Sault for whitefish fishing in the St. Mary's Rapids, and conducted trade, intertribal marriage, etc. --chris 16:09, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

All of the history of Sault Ste. Marie references I can find on the web give Bawating's meaning as "rapids", "river beaten to spray" or "where water flows over rocks". "Meeting place" is a common (although incorrect) citation for the meaning of Toronto. I'll ask the Canadian user contingent for input. Bearcat 17:01, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Baawatig is Ojibwe for "rapids" or "waterfall." -ong is a locative suffix, and creates a toponym. Thus, Baawatigong (or "Bawating", I guess) means "place of the rapids. My source is the Freelang Ojibwe Dictionary written by Weshki-Ayaad, Charles Lippert, and Guy T. Gambill, at [1]. I put this info in the article in place of the "meeting place" claim; I can't find an Ojibwe word for "meeting place" in any of my dictionaries, anyway. --Whimemsz 17:35, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I can clarify. Baawitig means rapids. Its composition is baawi= common to all torrent actions (though this preverb seems to be rare in Ojibwe, it does occur in other Algonquian languages), and =tigw= which is the combining form of the word for river. There are two types of locatives involved here. Baawiting is in the rapids or among the rapids. Baawitigong is at/by the rapids or to the rapids. The Ojibwe oral history talks about the Anishinaabeg being in the rapids (and always refer the area as Baawiting), thus they became known as the "Saulteurs" in French (the name still exists as the Saulteaux). However, the communities adjacent to the rapids instead are called Baawitigong since they are not in the rapids but merely next to the rapids. CJLippert 23:32, 18 January 2006 (UTC) (Minor fixes. CJLippert 21:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC) )

Additionally, the city's website states that "rushing waters" is the correct meaning. Unfortunately, they haven't cited a source... Mindmatrix 16:10, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

For your question about Toronto. It’s a Wendat (Huron) word.

So toronto means « a swamp », literally « tree in the water ». I was a part our language revitalization team in Wendake but I am not a linguist.

Shendaehwas 35.135.68.106 (talk) 15:29, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Image

I don't understand why would anyone put an image of downtown Toronto on a page about Sault Ste Marie?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.217.194 (talk • contribs)

I'm not sure what you're talking about — where in the article is there an image of downtown Toronto? Bearcat 21:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

There used to be an image of TO at the top right hand corner, where the city info template is, I can't find it in history though, someone has altered the template I guess, I am not very aware how wikipedia works. Anyway there's no more TO images now.

North of Sault

The area north of Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario is divided into Townships, with Heyden being in Aweres Township. The unorganized parts of Algoma District are farther north.

Aweres is an unincorporated township, and hence is part of the unorganized portion of Algoma. Please be aware of the difference between geographic townships (which cover almost the entire province but are not units of political organization) and political townships (which may coincide with geographic townships, but don't have to, and have municipal governments). Aweres is a geographic township; it is not a political township. Bearcat 20:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Sault and Soo

While I accept that Soo is in use a lot, is it encyclopedic? Would oh 'the big smoke' be used in the Toronto article? Perhaps it is what do I know... Dbrodbeck 02:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, actually, "The Big Smoke" is cited in Toronto's article as a notable and verifiable nickname for Toronto. Any nickname whose widespread use can be verified and is perfectly fine to mention. (This, of course, does not mean that it would be sufficient if one guy referred to Sault Ste. Marie as "Goofytown" on his blog; nicknames need to be verifiably common.) Bearcat 03:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

excellent, point taken. Dbrodbeck 04:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Just had a look in the Soo phone book and found 35 businesses in the white pages that have Soo in their name. James Warner-Smith 20:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

ahh, but the question is, how many used 'goofytown'? Dbrodbeck 17:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Demographics

Someone just took out the percentage of Christians, with the justification that he/she 'just knows' it is more than the 60 odd percent quoted. Now, I have no idea what the original source was, as it is not listed, but, I think it would be sensible to find out. The original edit has some specific numbers, it is unsourced Oh, and 'religion of choice' is an odd turn of a phrase.

Hmm, well according to StatsCanada, the number of Christians [Catholic (46.24%) + Protestant (38.05%) + Orthodox (0.28%) + n.i.e. (1.43%)] is 86.00% as of 2001.

also, 0.07% Muslim, 0.07% Jewish, 0.17% Buddhist, 0.11% Hindu, 0.01% Sikh, 0.02% Eastern religions, 0.23% other religions and 13.30% no affiliation

FUNgus guy 12:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Soologo.GIF

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MacLeans link

I previously removed an external link to a MacLean's ad that is from 04, so it is out of date, and it mentions a population decline, and how the economy of SSM is in poor shape. I noted in the current climate that this is simply inaccurate. Then it was re added. What do people think? It seems to me it is just out of date and not that useful.Dbrodbeck 12:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

The Sault is in a population decline and the economy is in poor shape. I find it very accurate. Can you explain how this is untrue? Macleans is a very good source.

eternalsleeper

the population increased in the last cencsus from what I have seen. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? You can see that the two of us are of differing views, so it would be nice to get a third (or fourth or fifth) party in on thisDbrodbeck 04:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The Sault's population increased in the 2006 census over the 2001 census. Albeit only by a couple of hundred people, but it did increase and is therefore not in decline. As for the shape of the economy, it needs to be sourced to actual demographic numbers around employment rate, housing starts, etc., and not to three-year-old Maclean's articles containing subjective and unencyclopedic jokes about women being so desperate they'll marry any guy with health benefits. It's not about whether Maclean's itself is a valid source or not; this type of article should be cited as a source for statements of fact in the article, if and when it's suitable, and not simply provided as an external link. Bearcat 04:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Population

A while back a user edited the page adding up the populations of all of the areas around SSM, ON and used some figure of about 160 K for the Population of the 'Greater Sault Ste. Marie area' (which is a term that I have never heard, but what do I know). I reverted the edit, pointing out that SSM, MI has an article of it's own (for example). What do people think? Dbrodbeck 20:23, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Somebody did this again just now (citing a population of 105,000 this time). Per actual StatsCan census data from 2006, Sault Ste. Marie's census agglomeration had a population of 80,098, and that figure is already cited in this article. And if you added the entire population of Algoma District to the entire population of Chippewa County, you still only reach 155,000, so there's absolutely no way in hell that "Greater Sault Ste. Marie" gets to 160K.

Wikipedia cites actual verifiable census data for actual recognized census entities, not population estimates for any random geographic grouping that people choose to draw a box around — while there are a few isolated references on the Internet to a "Greater Sault Ste. Marie", the term gets a grand total of 21 Google hits, not a single one of which constitutes a verifiable source as to the actual existence of any formally or legally recognized entity by that name, or to the boundaries that it would encompass. In fact, almost every single reference that does exist is found in a hotel advertisement on foundlocally.com. So, yeah, any such edit should be reverted on sight as pure original research. Bearcat 06:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

The population has been changed, again, I cannot find the source of these new data, so I do not want to revert it right away, but perhaps someone can.Dbrodbeck (talk) 22:12, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I found the source (Stats Canada) for the population of the Sault as found on the 2006 census. Hope that helps. Kristamaranatha (talk) 03:16, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Rail

The following appears under Transportation:

The city is no longer linked to any other major cities by rail, but is part of the Algoma Central Railway network, which runs north from the city to the small town of Hearst.

Isn't the rail line from Sudbury still in place? Or does this only refer to passenger travel? Blotto adrift (talk) 22:52, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah the link is there, I think it is referring to passenger rail. Dbrodbeck (talk) 01:25, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the sentence to read passenger rail. That is what was intended. Bearcat (talk) 01:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Arcadia Project, Whitespace Gallery stuff

This, it seems to me, is getting almost like an ad. Now, I will not revert it without some consensus, but listing the name of a couple of businesses downtown seems somewhat unencyclopedic. What do others think? Dbrodbeck (talk) 19:06, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

So, I take it that everyone thinks this stuff is ok? So be it. Dbrodbeck (talk) 02:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

History

There should be some reference to Francis H. Clergue in the history section, seeing as he had a huge hand in establishing Sault Ste Marie as an economic center (building St. Mary's Paper and Algoma Steel) Kristamaranatha (talk) 03:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

About sault ste marie...

Just so everyone knows, this is ABSOLUTELY the most beautiful city in the world. If you haven't ever been there, you're seriously missing out. This coming from somebody who's been to Prague, Atlanta, and Münich =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.236.168.81 (talk) 06:51, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Lol, is Atlanta supposed to be one of the most beautiful cities?  :-p Khono (talk) 13:15, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation in French

Does anyone in Sault Ste. Marie pronounce it the French way (with "sault" rhyming with the English "toe", or French "saut")? 69.159.196.72 (talk) 16:25, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Francophones do in my experience. Dbrodbeck (talk) 17:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

It's how I've always pronounced it. I'm not sure why the article says "sew". _EricLeb⁰¹ (Page | Talk) 18:27, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

"Sew" does rhyme with "toe" in English. Funnyhat (talk) 01:18, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

That should have been a pretty big hint that it doesn't in every English dialect. Sew rhymes with either "toe" or "threw" in different places, and not only that, even "toe" itself is pronounced differently in different parts of the US. That's why IPA was invented. Foxyshadis (talk) 02:03, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

with "sault" rhyming with the English "toe", or French "saut"

~shudder~ ... unless you have a very unique English accent, "toe" doesn't rhyme with the French pronunciation. It only rhymes with English speakers' pronunciation of the French word... I've changed it accordingly in the article. --Ibn Battuta (talk) 22:49, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Economy Section, 4th Paragraph

"In March 2010, St. Mary's Paper again laid off 150 employees which put more workers on unemployment for there is no work until the paper mill opens its doors again."

Earlier in the paragraph it says only 150 people work there. So, the plant was closed down? For how long? This sentence says they were laid off "again". How many times before? When? I saw no other mention in this section. Perhaps this article could link to a wiki about St. Mary's Paper mill with more details? Khono (talk) 13:13, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Language demography

Any data on the language used by city residents? Is there a French-speaking community? Funnyhat (talk) 03:14, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Pls see 2006 Community Profiles Sault Ste. Marie. and Knowledge of official languages for both sexes ............Moxy (talk) 03:50, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Tourism

Is there a reason that the Hub trail is in all caps (HUB Trail). As far as I know, it is not an acronym. See:http://www.city.sault-ste-marie.on.ca/Open_Page.aspx?ID=609&deptid=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pilkie01 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Name

It wasn't just a translation, as listed in this article. The name of the city was St. Mary or St. Mary's Falls for at least some parts of the British occupation. Any sources on when that started or ended? — LlywelynII 14:05, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

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Images in infobox

The city has a:

• Coat of arms
• City Shield
• Logo
• Flag

The infobox has a field for flag and seal.

I get that Flag can go in the flag field, but what about the others? ( Relates to ticket:2017021710014132 )--S Philbrick(Talk) 18:12, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

You can look at other city articles where it's been well incorporated and use their example. Air.light (talk) 22:19, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

@Air.light: Example?--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:10, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Be sure to visit Template:Infobox settlement#Parameter names and descriptions, which has every available option. There are parameters for shield/coat of arms ("image_shield"), flag ("image_flag"), seal ("image_seal"), and logo ("image_blank_emblem"). The shield is part of the coat of arms, so there isn't a need to have both posted. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:42, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Is Sault Ste. Marie the "seat" of Algoma District?

A recent edit back-and-forth has been happening regarding Sault Ste. Marie's status as the "Seat" of the Algoma District. Edit summaries follow:

Anon: It can't be the seat of the Algoma District when there's no government for the Algoma District.

Bearcat: actually, yes it can: location of the provincial government services *to* the Algoma District (e.g. Social Services Board etc.)

Anon: You can be the seat of a non-existent government. There is no government for the Algoma District.

Bearcat: there doesn't have to be an Algoma District government for there to be a seat; there merely has to be a central location where the Algoma District's PROVINCIAL government services are located, which there is and it's SSM.

Anon: The Algoma District Social Services Board is in Thessalon. It is the SSM Service Board located in the Sault. There is no central location in Algoma for these services.

Me: the district courthouse is in the sault, that's considered the "seat"

Anon: It's not "the" District courthouse. There's one in Elliot Lake as well.

Me: revert to original, let's move this discussion to the talk page

And here we are. FUNgus guy (talk) 08:23, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

The Social Services Board is not the sum total of all provincial government services in a district; it's just the office that administers things like Ontario Works and paramedic services, not the entirety of the provincial government's presence in a district. Even in some of the counties and regional municipalities in Southern Ontario, there may still be a separate social services office for the rural part of a county/RM, separate from the "urban" offices for the actual county seat — so the fact that SSM and the rural part of Algoma District have their own separate social services boards does not disprove anything in and of itself, because counties and RMs in the south can do that too. While conversely, the Manitoulin District doesn't even have its own social services board at all, but is part of the service area of the Sudbury District's social services board from its offices in Espanola — but that fact doesn't mean Manitoulin doesn't still have its own "seat", because "location of the Ontario Works administration office" isn't what being a "seat" means.

And a district courthouse doesn't have to be the only one in the district, either. Sure, there's one in Elliot Lake too, but the one in Sault Ste. Marie is the main one while Elliot Lake's is a satellite: SSM has Ontario Court of Justice and Ontario Superior Court offices, while Elliot Lake has the OCJ only. If someone appeals an OCJ decision from Elliot Lake's court, guess where they go for that next step up the ladder? That's right: Sault Ste. Marie. Which means that Sault Ste. Marie is the primary location of court services for Algoma; it's "head office", while Elliot Lake has a "branch office" only.

Ministry of Transportation offices for the region? Sault Ste, Marie. WSIB offices for the region, where any worker in any part of Algoma has to go to report a workplace injury? Sault Ste. Marie. And on and so forth. That's what makes it a "seat". Bearcat (talk) 15:27, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

This is a silly pointless argument. Does anyone have reliable sources that state SSM is the seat of the Algoma District? Does anyone have sources that say it's not, or someplace else is? Cause people, that's all that matters. All your bickering is simply over whose version of WP:OR is correct. Without sources that name SSM as "the seat of the Algoma District" directly, it doesn't belong. Period. John from Idegon (talk) 15:54, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

A district can't not have a seat. It's flatly impossible. Bearcat (talk) 16:00, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

So provide a source. John from Idegon (talk) 17:45, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

new mayor

i live here and the new mayor is mathew shoemaker 70.76.33.120 (talk) 22:24, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

North Sault Ste. Marie

In my opinion, the Ontario side is called North Sault Ste. Marie and the Michigan side is called South Sault. Ste. Marie. 67.184.73.171 (talk) 12:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Might be nicknames. Need WP:RS for that. Your opinion doesn't count. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:37, 14 April 2024 (UTC)