Talk:SS Kroonland

SS Kroonland is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 3, 2024.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 29, 2008	WikiProject A-class review	Approved
February 19, 2009	Featured article candidate	Promoted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on May 21, 2008.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that during World War I, a torpedo struck the ocean liner SS Kroonland, (pictured) but failed to explode?

Current status: Featured article

Military history: Maritime / North America / United States / World War I

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Blacklisted?

I just tried to add a short video I found on YouTube about the SS Kroonland only to discover that YouTube is now a blacklisted website!? For the record this was going under external links, not as a source for any content. I am fairly sure the video does not violate copyright and is not commercial promotion of any kind either. Oh well... moving on. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:11, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox formatting

This article has peculiar infobox formatting, with the general characteristics displayed on the left and the rest of the infobox on the right. It should all be on the right. DrKay (talk) 18:19, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Returning troops home

Just a little more on one of the return trips after the Great War: http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwi/adminamerexp/chapter24.html states “On January 20, 1919, Evacuation Hospital No. 35 relieved Base Hospital No. 43, the latter organization leaving for the United States from St. Nazaire on March 12 on the Kroonland. It arrived at Newport News, Va., March 24, and was demobilized at Camp Gordon, Ga., shortly afterwards.” This signifies Kroonland as serving as both a troop transport and a hospital ship for that voyage, carrying the entire Evacuation Hospital No. 43 (Staff and Patients) to the U.S. My grandfather, PVT Alva Henry Cook of the U.S. Army 32nd Division, was among the severely wounded to return home on that trip. --71.82.64.203 (talk) 20:49, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070211121602/http://homepages.paradise.net.nz:80/~dchamber/chambersld%20ww1diary.htm to http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~dchamber/chambersld%20ww1diary.htm#panama

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External links modified

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External links modified

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Non-breaking spaces in dates

There are LOTS of dates in the body of this article. As the numeral comes first in dmy format, it's possible for it to become separated from the month at the end of a line. The numeral and month should ideally be held together with non-breaking spaces to aid the appearance for all text sizes. Without the 'hard space', the date can get 'broken' across a line break. Example: 16 February 2024 might appear across two lines as 16
February 2024, which is not desirable. Sorry if I'm preaching to the converted here btw.

I would normally go ahead and add in the non-breaking spaces myself, but I noticed this hidden comment at the top of the article: !-- This article uses the non-breaking space character (" ") rather than the ugly "& nbsp;" where non-breaking spaces are called for. -- which was added by User:Bellhalla in 2008 (long time ago). That was a joke, right? Clearly " " is not a non-breaking space character, it's just a space! And, as for & nbsp; being "ugly", er, what? As the html code is hidden behind the scenes, there's no particular reason to make it pretty for the reader. You can always make it slightly less ugly by using the template version, "{{nbsp}}", but I would argue that the hidden note is a distraction and should be removed, and the dates do need to contain hard spaces to improve the appearance of the article.

P.S. In above explanation, I had to put a dummy space inside the "& nbsp;" construct to make it show up.

Rodney Baggins (talk) 10:02, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rodney Baggins, thanks for doing this.

in Bellhalla's defense, the comment in question was originally added with an actual non-breaking space character, but for some reason, it was replaced with a normal space character by another editor at some point later on.

by the way, for future reference, you can use "&" for the ampersand character to have " " display properly. dying (talk) 22:59, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

hull number

is there a reliable source which states that the ship's hull number was "ID-1541"? i found this source which notes that the hull number was "SP-1541". i noticed that one of the sources used in the article refers to the ship as "USS Kroonland (ID # 1541)", which may explain why "ID" had been included as part of the hull number. dying (talk) 22:59, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very few sources have quoted the number in question, I was only able to find one other source here which also states ‘ID-1541’. However the NHHC source makes use of both the ID and SF prefixes within the same article, so I’m unsure as to whether these were used interchangeably during that period. Best-case scenario would be to have archived pictures of the ship’s hull, but I’ve been unable to access any above a specific resolution - maybe we should hold off on the edit until a reliable source (or more sources which reference ‘SF-1541’) can be found? Masterofthebrick (talk) 09:31, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

record transit

regarding the sentence in the article lead discussing the ship's record panama canal transit, should the phrase "to date" be replaced with something like "to that date", to conform with the statement in the article body?

while the use of "to that date" in the body suggests that kroonland was compared to all passenger vessels that had previously passed through the canal, i believe the lead's use of "to date" would mean that kroonland is also being compared to all such ships that have passed through the canal since. (see, for example, the definitions of "to date" in cambridge, in collins, in oxford, in webster, and in wiktionary.)

i assume that the stronger claim in the lead is incorrect, as i believe norwegian bliss set the most recent record, in 2018. dying (talk) 22:59, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed - the sentence was pretty misleading so I've already gone through with the edit. If anyone would like to modify it please do so. Masterofthebrick (talk) 05:18, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thanks, Masterofthebrick. dying (talk) 05:59, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

gender

i understand that ships, cars and other large vehicles of transport are often feminized when referred to by their owners but this actually for once sounds weird and confusing when it comes to this current fanatically ultra-liberal "politically correct" gender neutrality modern age. i'm sure there would be a trove of wikipedians whose views would usually align with this, just curious how it still hasn't been caught considering it has been on the front page for this many hours. kuchesezik (talk) 09:10, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, majority of articles on the site have used the feminized format for the aforementioned topics. Too much of a hassle and too large of an undertaking to switch to gender-neutral pronouns across all existing articles (which extends to countries, monuments etc), and to enforce the switch for new ones, since the above format still remains largely ingrained within the language - though in the modern context the practice has somewhat become less consistent, as you’ve pointed out. Masterofthebrick (talk) 09:52, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has been the subject of endless (ad nauseum) discussion and sometimes heated debate. Attempts to impose gender neutral language on ship related articles have been fiercely resisted, with much of it coming from the editors who tend to do most of the work on those pages. The result being essentially a status quo position. That is to say it is mostly up to the people who create and edit the articles, and based on observational evidence, they seem to be pretty strongly in favor of the more traditional conventions. I believe there is also a not unreasonable fear that we might alienate or even drive off a large number of editors if they perceive that a bunch of people who rarely contribute to the subject area, are attempting to impose language that is inconsistent with the longstanding customs of mariners. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:22, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ship name error

The infobox says Kroonland is "German: 'Crown land', referring to Cisleithania." However, the German word for crown is Krone (noun) or Kron as an adverbial or adjectival predicate signifying "royal." Kroon appears to be of Dutch or Flemish origin – as were the names of the SS Vaderland and SS Zeeland of the same company. Perhaps someone was just guessing? (Also, few anglophones have ever heard of "Cisleithania," which was part of Austria-Hungary, and which was never in general English use, and rare in German). – Sca (talk) 14:38, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Google translate identifies Kroonland as Dutch. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That seems very likely, considering the other mentioned names. As to "Cisleithania": that is an informal, even somewhat ironic name for the "Austrian" part of Austria-Hungary (officially "The Kingdoms and Lands Represented in the Imperial Council") and not synonymous to "Kronland". I will edit the Infobox accordingly. MeAmME (talk) 21:10, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More citations needed in lead

The lead section needs more citations. Writehydra (talk) 23:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:CITELEAD, we don't usually have citations in the lead if the material is cited in the article body. The lead should not contain material not found in the article body and the article body should not contain material that is uncited. DrKay (talk) 21:18, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]