Talk:Russians at War

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Film: Canadian / French / War

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Military history: War films / Russian & Soviet

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Introductory paragraph requires amendment

I think we need to be less handwavy about the very serious allegations against the film - it's very dangerous to present it as a regular documentary film - which it is not. I propose an amended introduction to raise awareness of controversy early on:

Russians at War is a 2024 documentary film directed by Russian-Canadian cinematographer Anastasia Trofimova, which has been widely criticized as Russian propaganda.^[1] The Canadian and Ontario government-funded film focuses on the perspective of Russian soldiers invading Ukraine during the ongoing 2014 Russian-Ukrainian war. It premiered at the 81st Venice International Film Festival.

OR

Russians at War is a 2024 documentary film directed by Russian-Canadian cinematographer Anastasia Trofimova. The Canadian and Ontario government-funded film focuses on the perspective of Russian soldiers invading Ukraine during the ongoing 2014 Russian-Ukrainian war. It premiered at the 81st Venice International Film Festival, after which it was widely criticized as Russian propaganda.^[2]

Please amend ASAP! 0lida0 (talk) 13:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This debate gets extremely polarised, just like in the palestine-israel conflict, where all intentions of seeing humans on the other side are critized. Many critiques haven't even seen the film, as it was written here in a former version, too. Adebax (talk) 13:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your opinion about the poor misunderstood Russian soliders is irrelevant to topic at hand. Introduction still needs amending to illustrate the significance of the controversy surrounding it - it would not have been this widely covered in media without widespread criticism that it is a thinly-veiled a Russian propaganda film. 0lida0 (talk) 14:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, no longer needs amending - thanks eds! 62.197.35.21 (talk) 14:46, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i agree. Also the Introductory paragraph has unnecessarily repetition on the matter of festivals, which is covered in the Release section. 2605:8D80:13E6:4BE9:157E:5A02:4FD4:EC3E (talk) 01:24, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following sentence is very awkward: "The film focuses on the anti-war perspective and thoughts about Russian-Ukrainian unity reflected by Russian soldiers fighting on the front lines in Ukraine and civilians burying their men during the Ukrainian-Russian war." Also, the director's own descriptions of the film don't suggest that it is focused on any of these things. Surely, this sentence deserves a citation if there is any evidence to support it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.158.225.146 (talk) 00:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The introductory paragraph mixes information about the general topic of the film and its festival history. The festival history should be removed to the "Release" section (and where such section, anybody? I saw it once but now someone deleted it. This section should be return, it is the standard for films to mention their premiers, and TIFF was the place for the film's North American premiere. The sentence about the police is totally irrelevant, and if anybody wants to discuss safety and controversy, let's move this sentence to the Controversy section. Complexity1 (talk) 03:50, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

Please return the Reception section

Here is the Reception section that is recovered from previously proposed versions by talk and User:UrbanVillager and some others. I checked the sources, they are all cited here correctly. For those who want to keep the Critical Response, it can be positioned either under Reception or as a stand-alone section. So here is the text, which has all sources checked (and so should be added to the page):

Extended content

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I suggest adding the section "Reception" earlier offered by other users (see the Talk page). Such section follows the format of Wikipedia pages for films. The section "Critical Response" has a confusing title for the general audience. If other editors want to keep it, it can be still there as it doesn't overlap with "Reception". I checked and verified all the sources and exact citations in the following text.

Extended content

Request to prevent EVS-VR and UrbanVillager from editing the page

These two accounts are clearly the same person or sponsored by the same person. They have a clear WP:COI and are continually edit warring and trying to replace the page with their own poorly-sourced and whitewashed version of how the film was received by global audiences. Stoptheprop (talk) 13:42, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(posting this section as UrbanVillager has edited the main text AGAIN under the guise of preventing "vandalism") Stoptheprop (talk) 15:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stoptheprop, please don't confuse editors who took their time to check the sources and gather them for this page. So far your informational contribution is minimal but you give mostly emotional reactions to the editing war here. You haven't even confirmed that you saw the film, i.e. the subject matter of this page. Complexity1 (talk) 22:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are one of the accounts I have previously noted as being a sock account for both EVS-VR and UrbanVillager. As many editors on this page have noted, these users did not check the sources at all and have provided faulty links and poorly-sorted information.

user:Manyareasexpert as one of the few unbiased editors watching over this page, could I ask you to restore the version recently discussed here: http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Russians_at_War#Propose_previous_version_of_page_be_restored

Would also like to take this opportunity to highlight just how unreliable EVS-VR, Urban Villager are as editors:

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Russians_at_War#c-Manyareasexpert-20240913212600-EVS-VR-20240913212400 Stoptheprop (talk) 14:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you're going to accuse someone of sockpuppetry please open an SPI. However, I will note that since EVS-VR was created this past June, it does not look like they and Complexity were ever online at the same time. Even that one period where there's four minutes between edits is enough to, say, change boxes or switch back and forth to a VPN. (And I would also note the similar interests, outside this page, of both accounts in advanced math). Daniel Case (talk) 03:42, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: The contribution histories of Complexity and UV also leave plenty of room for them to not be online at the same time, either. As do EVS's and UV's. Daniel Case (talk) 03:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Complexity1 has been confirmed as a sockpuppet by Wikipedia admins:

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Complexity1

In light of this sockpuppet investigation, please let us restore the original version as previously discussed? user:Manyareasexpert? http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Russians_at_War#Propose_previous_version_of_page_be_restored

this is the page version that needs to be restored:

http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Russians_at_War&oldid=1247878515 Stoptheprop (talk) 21:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ER please restore previous version of page as previously agreed

In light of recent edit warring and sockpuppet investigation which implicated several warring editors on this page, please restore original version of page, as previously discussed (http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Russians_at_War#Propose_previous_version_of_page_be_restored)

This is the page version that needs to be restored: http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Russians_at_War&oldid=1247878515 Stoptheprop (talk) 02:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly oppose per the discussion on this talk page and the fact that no reason has been given to remove sourced content. If there are any issues with the content, please discuss them point by point, as was discussed previously and addressed accordingly. --UrbanVillager (talk) 10:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-film-venice-canada-yermak-trofimova/33110069.html

[2] ttps://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-film-venice-canada-yermak-trofimova/33110069.html

[1]

[2]