Talk:Occitan language

Oil/Oc/Si

If this is Langues d'oc and the other is Langues d'oïl, what is Langues de si ?76.66.193.119 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:32, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Spanish, Italian, etc. --Jotamar (talk) 13:44, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Is there an article about it? 76.66.193.119 (talk) 09:09, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

There is only one "Lenga d'Òc" and not several "Lengas (sic) d'Òc". Please read this section. The name "Language of sì" only refers to Italian. This way of naming and comparing three languages ("language of oc", "language of oil", "language of si") was developped especially in Dante's De Vulgari Eloquentia (1304).--Nil Blau (talk) 17:21, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Except that there was no language called "Italian" in Dante's day. There were a variety of Romance dialects spoken in Italy. Funnyhat (talk) 23:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Table of linguistic comparisons

Comparison with other Romance languages Common words in Romance languages, with English (a Germanic language) for reference Latin Occitan (including main regional varieties) Catalan French Ladin (Nones) Lombard Italian Spanish Portuguese Sardinian Romanian English cantare cantar (chantar) cantar chanter ciantar cantà cantare cantar cantar cantare cânta '(to) sing' capram cabra (chabra, craba) cabra chèvre ciaura cavra capra cabra cabra craba capră 'goat' clavem clau clau clé clau ciav chiave llave chave crae cheie 'key' ecclesiam, basilicam glèisa església église glesia giesa chiesa iglesia igreja gresia biserică 'church' formaticvm (Vulgar Latin), casevm formatge (hormatge) formatge fromage formai furmai/furmagg formaggio/cacio queso queijo casu caş 'cheese' lingvam lenga (lengua) llengua langue lenga lengua lingua lengua língua limba limbă 'tongue, language' noctem nuèch (nuèit) nit nuit not nocc notte noche noite nothe noapte 'night' plateam plaça plaça place plaza piasa piazza/platea plaza praça pratza piaţă[59] 'square, plaza' pontem pont (pònt) pont pont pònt punt ponte puente ponte ponte punte 'bridge'

Is there any particular reason why the Latin nouns are always in the accusative case? Is this to do with vulgar Latin adaptations?. I think it should be noted in the article as well. Alexandre8 (talk) 19:35, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Virgin Mary Statue Pic

Shouldn't this be turned through 90deg so the Virgin Mary's head is at the yop of the pic? Gonetofrance (talk) 09:21, 5 December 2011 (UTC) Gonetofrance 5th Dec 2011

Langues d'oc and catalan

Langues d'oc, d'oil and de si represent a comparison of Latin languages based on their words for yes. Langues d'oil has its own article, but langues d'oc redirects here. Langues de si or something similar doesn't have an article anywhere (which would include for example, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish).

Obviously this isn't the system used by modern linguists to classify romance languages, but it's given a certain legitimacy by having langues d'oc redirect here.

We then end up with a rather absurd situation where and article that talks about how oil languages (primarily french) can be distinguished from oc languages (which then links here) by their word for yes. Then you have an article that halfway down talks as though Catalan and Occitan are arguably one and the same. But Catalan for yes is si, and not oc. Wouldn't that make Catalan a langue de si?

Again, this system based on yes is obviously archaic, and whether Catalan is "ibero-romance" "gallo-romance" is contentious in itself. But the current situation is rather strange. Perhaps there should be a separate article discussing the oil, oc, si, classification, and then have references to "langues d'oc" redirect there, rather than here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.35.41 (talk) 16:10, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Langues d'oc is an invention of an obscure medievist scholar (Jean-Claude Rivière), compromised in helping a revisionnist "historian" (Henri Roques) around 1975. Dante Alighieri coined the words lingua de hoc, lingua de oïl and lingua de si to denominate Occitan (or Langue d'Oc, singular as written by Honnorat and Mistral), French, and Italian (not Spanish or any other: Dante wanted to push Italian as the literary language against Occitan and French). So langues d'oc has no legitimacy. --— J. F. B. ^{(me´n parlar)} 20:38, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

"ibero-romance" and "gallo-romance" are very linked to nation-state linguistic nationalism of France and Spain. Modern scholars as P. Bec use occitano-romance to group Occitan and Catalan. --— J. F. B. ^{(me´n parlar)} 20:38, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

New 2020 study of Occitan language L1 speakers

A new study conducted on behalf of the Office for Occitan in Nouvelle-Aquitaine, Occitania and Spain's Val d'Aran has found that 7% of the population in both French regions (combined population 7.74m) and 62% in the latter (8,000) declare themselves to be Occitan speakers, which would give an L1 population of approximately 540,000 . That figure excludes any Occitan speakers in Provence, which wasn't included in the survey. Culloty82 (talk) 20:53, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

References

Colors of the second map

The choice of colors for the second map could not be worse. They should contrast as much as possible rather than all be shades of violet or purple. No one is going to take the trouble of trying to match a color on the map with a color in the key.S. Valkemirer (talk) 13:13, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Māori translation

There's a Māori translation of this page which needs to be linked: http://mi.wiki.x.io/wiki/Reo_Occitan Thomas Norren (talk) 08:14, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Done. Largoplazo (talk) 10:50, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

“minimal Celtic influence”

“Occitan dialects are a result of the Latin influence on the language of the southern Gauls“, it is called Gallo-Romance because of this.

<https://minorityrights.org/minorities/occitan-speakers/> 1arkspur (talk) 00:03, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

"Occitan words and their French, Catalan and Spanish cognates" table

This table needs clarification about which Occitan dialect is being referenced. In which dialect is the word for "house" maison and in which is it casa? It's not clear at the moment. Both are just labeled as "Occitan". 2600:1702:6D0:5160:4DD7:4281:96BE:A259 (talk) 18:27, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Presence in Monaco

While still official language, there are reports that there are no more speakers.

"In Monaco, the neighborhoods in the lower area had been historically Occitan-speaking, but the language has now been completely replaced by French and others."

<https://www.nationalia.info/profile/32/occitania> HYTEN CREW (talk) 17:01, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Grammar section/article

The Language Characteristics section only really discusses phonology, and only lists the Occitan Phonology article as a See Also. This would be kind of fine if there was an Occitan Grammar article, but there isn't. There is a whole article on Occitan Conjugation, oddly, which could serve as a good candidate for expansion into a larger Occitan Grammar article. This would be fine if the main Occitan Language article adequately discussed grammar, but as I previously mentioned it does not. Could this be started at some point? Eel of Oppo (talk) 15:33, 6 November 2024 (UTC)