Talk:Nellie Two Bears Gates

	This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
	This article was accepted from this draft on 9 November 2019 by reviewer DGG (talk · contribs).

Indigenous peoples of North America Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Native Americans, Indigenous peoples in Canada, and related indigenous peoples of North America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Indigenous peoples of North AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaIndigenous peoples of North America articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Low-importance).

South Dakota Low‑importance

	South Dakota portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject South Dakota, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of South Dakota on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.South DakotaWikipedia:WikiProject South DakotaTemplate:WikiProject South DakotaSouth Dakota articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Arts

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Arts on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArtsWikipedia:WikiProject ArtsTemplate:WikiProject ArtsWikiProject Arts articles

United States: North Dakota Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	North Dakota portal This article is supported by WikiProject North Dakota.

A fact from Nellie Two Bears Gates appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 December 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Nellie Two Bear Gates made beaded artwork that depicted Yanktonai Dakota history and culture?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2019/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Nellie Two Bear Gates.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:39, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

~~... that Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates has three notable artworks that all contain some form of suitcase in the title?~~
- ALT1:... that Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates, whose native Sioux name means "Gathering of Clouds Woman", was raised on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation?

Reviewed: Sportsvue

Created by Bowlcut2020 (talk). Nominated by Paul2520 (talk) at 22:57, 10 November 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Article is new enough, long enough, and adequately sourced. I am assuming good faith for the offline sources. No close paraphrasing was found, and a QPQ was provided. ALT1 isn't really interesting to a broad audience, although I'm open to a variant of ALT1 that drops the reservation mention and sticks to the mention of her Sioux name. I like ALT0 better, but the fact doesn't seem to be explicitly mentioned in the article, and from what I can tell only one of the three that explicitly uses the word "suitcase" (the other two works use the word "valise", which seems to be a relatively obscure term and I admit have never heard of prior to this nomination). Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:21, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the quick review, Narutolovehinata5. I'd say the "obscurity" of the term is subjective. Valise redirects to suitcase. Does that help? We could say "...suitcase or valise..."

Also, I'm a bit unsure by your reasoning about ALT1 being uninteresting to broad audiences... is that a requirement, and if so, how is it measured? I feel like what makes hooks interesting is that they mention something from the article that you have to click to learn more. I would further counter that for this hook, since Standing Rock has garnered international attention in the past couple of years, that the hook is quite interesting to a broad audience simply for Gates being from there.

Pinging Bowlcut2020 in case they want to weigh-in. = paul2520 (talk) 00:33, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I meant to say that, as layperson who is not very familiar with Native American history or affairs, it's not a hook that would catch my attention, and the same would be likely for others with similar backgrounds. Personally I actually find the "Gathering of Clouds Woman" more interesting since at least it sounds like an unusual name, at least to the layman. As for the first hook, another issue is that the hook isn't exactly explicitly mentioned in the article (i.e. the hook only says that she has three works with these names, but nothing in the article that ties the names of the three together), and so the hook could arguably be considered synthesis, which is a shame since I personally think it's a good hook. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:46, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How's this, Narutolovehinata5?

ALT2: ... that Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates' work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian Institution, the Wheelwright Museum of the American Indian, and the Eiteljorg Museum?

= paul2520 (talk) 04:31, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds good, but personally I still prefer ALT0 (if the sourcing issue could be addressed) or the revision to ALT1 that I suggested. Though it might be a good idea to ask for a second opinion from another editor on what hook could be used. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:23, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5: Do you want to reach out to someone? Or do you think it is good to go? = paul2520 (talk) 01:36, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I personally think the article itself is good to go, just not sure on the choice of hooks.

Second opinions would be greatly appreciated in this case. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:03, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's really interesting that she made artworks around suitcases and bags, and I think it would be possible to say something general in the article about that, that could be the basis of a hook. I don't think the name of the work is so important - the description of one of the valises starts "Nellie Gates made this case for her daughter Josephine ..." [1], and another seems to be what I'd call a traditional Doctor’s bag (I can only see that one on Pinterest), another more like a handbag. I'll have a look at the article and sources again. RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:27, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments, RebeccaGreen! I added a line to the lead that summarizes the commentary in the Artwork and exhibitions section. How is this for a new hook? cc: Narutolovehinata5.

ALT3 ... that Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates is best-known for several beaded suitcases or valises that she gave as gifts during her life?

or

ALT4 ... that Nellie Two Bear Gates made beaded artwork that depicts Yanktonai Dakota history and culture?

= paul2520 (talk) 22:35, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ALT3 and ALT4 are great hooks! Good job, I'll give this a final look later. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:29, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I also have another suggestion; considering the relative lack of representation that Native Americans get on DYK, would it be possible that whatever hook goes up mentions the Sioux or Dakota, even the ones that do not currently do so such as ALT3? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:30, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good call, Narutolovehinata5. I amended the hooks accordingly. = paul2520 (talk) 23:39, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Great, glad it was helpful! I have changed the link from a disambiguation page to Dakota people - hope that's the right article. RebeccaGreen (talk) 08:01, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, RebeccaGreen! Is this good to go now? cc: Narutolovehinata5. = paul2520 (talk) 17:25, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I believe so. I expect that Narutolovehinata5 is busy, so I will approve ALT3 and ALT4, AGF for the offline sources (enough are online to verify the hooks). Striking the previous hooks for the reasons mentioned above. RebeccaGreen (talk) 03:49, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]