Template:Did you know nominations/Nellie Two Bear Gates
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:39, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
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Nellie Two Bear Gates
... that Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates has three notable artworks that all contain some form of suitcase in the title?ALT1:... that Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates, whose native Sioux name means "Gathering of Clouds Woman", was raised on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation?
- Reviewed: Sportsvue
Created by Bowlcut2020 (talk). Nominated by Paul2520 (talk) at 22:57, 10 November 2019 (UTC).
Article is new enough, long enough, and adequately sourced. I am assuming good faith for the offline sources. No close paraphrasing was found, and a QPQ was provided. ALT1 isn't really interesting to a broad audience, although I'm open to a variant of ALT1 that drops the reservation mention and sticks to the mention of her Sioux name. I like ALT0 better, but the fact doesn't seem to be explicitly mentioned in the article, and from what I can tell only one of the three that explicitly uses the word "suitcase" (the other two works use the word "valise", which seems to be a relatively obscure term and I admit have never heard of prior to this nomination). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:21, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the quick review, Narutolovehinata5. I'd say the "obscurity" of the term is subjective. Valise redirects to suitcase. Does that help? We could say "...suitcase or valise..."
- Also, I'm a bit unsure by your reasoning about ALT1 being uninteresting to broad audiences... is that a requirement, and if so, how is it measured? I feel like what makes hooks interesting is that they mention something from the article that you have to click to learn more. I would further counter that for this hook, since Standing Rock has garnered international attention in the past couple of years, that the hook is quite interesting to a broad audience simply for Gates being from there.
- Pinging Bowlcut2020 in case they want to weigh-in. = paul2520 (talk) 00:33, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
- I meant to say that, as layperson who is not very familiar with Native American history or affairs, it's not a hook that would catch my attention, and the same would be likely for others with similar backgrounds. Personally I actually find the "Gathering of Clouds Woman" more interesting since at least it sounds like an unusual name, at least to the layman. As for the first hook, another issue is that the hook isn't exactly explicitly mentioned in the article (i.e. the hook only says that she has three works with these names, but nothing in the article that ties the names of the three together), and so the hook could arguably be considered synthesis, which is a shame since I personally think it's a good hook. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:46, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
- How's this, Narutolovehinata5?
ALT2: ... that Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates' work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian Institution, the Wheelwright Museum of the American Indian, and the Eiteljorg Museum?- = paul2520 (talk) 04:31, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
- It sounds good, but personally I still prefer ALT0 (if the sourcing issue could be addressed) or the revision to ALT1 that I suggested. Though it might be a good idea to ask for a second opinion from another editor on what hook could be used. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:23, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Do you want to reach out to someone? Or do you think it is good to go? = paul2520 (talk) 01:36, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
- I personally think the article itself is good to go, just not sure on the choice of hooks.
Second opinions would be greatly appreciated in this case. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:03, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
- I think it's really interesting that she made artworks around suitcases and bags, and I think it would be possible to say something general in the article about that, that could be the basis of a hook. I don't think the name of the work is so important - the description of one of the valises starts "Nellie Gates made this case for her daughter Josephine ..." [1], and another seems to be what I'd call a traditional Doctor’s bag (I can only see that one on Pinterest), another more like a handbag. I'll have a look at the article and sources again. RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:27, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the comments, RebeccaGreen! I added a line to the lead that summarizes the commentary in the Artwork and exhibitions section. How is this for a new hook? cc: Narutolovehinata5.
- ALT3 ... that Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates is best-known for several beaded suitcases or valises that she gave as gifts during her life?
- or
- ALT4 ... that Nellie Two Bear Gates made beaded artwork that depicts Yanktonai Dakota history and culture?
- = paul2520 (talk) 22:35, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
- ALT3 and ALT4 are great hooks! Good job, I'll give this a final look later. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:29, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
- I also have another suggestion; considering the relative lack of representation that Native Americans get on DYK, would it be possible that whatever hook goes up mentions the Sioux or Dakota, even the ones that do not currently do so such as ALT3? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:30, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
- I think it's really interesting that she made artworks around suitcases and bags, and I think it would be possible to say something general in the article about that, that could be the basis of a hook. I don't think the name of the work is so important - the description of one of the valises starts "Nellie Gates made this case for her daughter Josephine ..." [1], and another seems to be what I'd call a traditional Doctor’s bag (I can only see that one on Pinterest), another more like a handbag. I'll have a look at the article and sources again. RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:27, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
- I personally think the article itself is good to go, just not sure on the choice of hooks.
- @Narutolovehinata5: Do you want to reach out to someone? Or do you think it is good to go? = paul2520 (talk) 01:36, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
- It sounds good, but personally I still prefer ALT0 (if the sourcing issue could be addressed) or the revision to ALT1 that I suggested. Though it might be a good idea to ask for a second opinion from another editor on what hook could be used. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:23, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
- I meant to say that, as layperson who is not very familiar with Native American history or affairs, it's not a hook that would catch my attention, and the same would be likely for others with similar backgrounds. Personally I actually find the "Gathering of Clouds Woman" more interesting since at least it sounds like an unusual name, at least to the layman. As for the first hook, another issue is that the hook isn't exactly explicitly mentioned in the article (i.e. the hook only says that she has three works with these names, but nothing in the article that ties the names of the three together), and so the hook could arguably be considered synthesis, which is a shame since I personally think it's a good hook. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:46, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Good call, Narutolovehinata5. I amended the hooks accordingly. = paul2520 (talk) 23:39, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
- Great, glad it was helpful! I have changed the link from a disambiguation page to Dakota people - hope that's the right article. RebeccaGreen (talk) 08:01, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, RebeccaGreen! Is this good to go now? cc: Narutolovehinata5. = paul2520 (talk) 17:25, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
Yes, I believe so. I expect that Narutolovehinata5 is busy, so I will approve ALT3 and ALT4, AGF for the offline sources (enough are online to verify the hooks). Striking the previous hooks for the reasons mentioned above. RebeccaGreen (talk) 03:49, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, RebeccaGreen! Is this good to go now? cc: Narutolovehinata5. = paul2520 (talk) 17:25, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
