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Reorganize "Events" section

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Timeline of the Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)

The "Events" section is disorganized. It is split up into 3 sections, 2 only covering up to 13 October, and the rest of time is dedicated in subsections of the last "Events" subsection.

You could make only 3 sections partially based on the template at right, "Initial clashes", "Escalation of conflict" (after the ceasefire ends), and last section as "Major Israeli attacks begin", beginning with the pager explosions, and then make subsections for specific events. Also, link to the specific timeline pages for each period or event as necessary instead of just the overarching index one. </MarkiPoli> <talk /><cont /> 07:41, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that when doing a pass for WP:NPOV. It starts detailing the current attacks but then jumps back in time. I think a chronological order makes the most sense. I would probably split Background to cover only historic stuff (pre-8 October 2023), and then move everything else into new sections based on the phase of the conflict. You can't go too far wrong with following the chronology. Lewisguile (talk) 08:02, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2000+

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@Vbbanaz05 Look, I get it. The 2,000+ casualties are likely not true. However, that doesn't really matter. That's why it says "Per Hezbollah". The point of including them is to be able to get across the claims that Hzb. makes. And, wheter the numbers are true or false, it is not wrong that Hezbollah has made them.

Therefore, they should be included. Genabab (talk) 19:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Viewsridge Wdyt of the above argument that the 2,000+ figure should remain? Genabab (talk) 12:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do I think about it? I think it's a nonsensical propaganda claim made by a terrorist organization without any evidence. Viewsridge (talk) 19:43, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Viewsridge sure, that may be the case. However, wheter the claims are true or not doesn't change the fact that Hzb. ultimately still made them and it is important to show what Hezbollah's claims are Genabab (talk) 20:35, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. That is not getting included. Viewsridge (talk) 21:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ViewsridgeYou're being too closeminded I think. The wikiboks for the Israeli invasion of Gaza also includes estimates of IDF casualties by Hamas. so why not this?
Again, its likely not true. We're actually in agreement here. But there's no denying that Hzb made this claim and => it should be included for documentation. That is wikipedia's policy after all. Genabab (talk) 23:05, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Killed

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Hamas announced this morning that the movement's leader in Lebanon, Fatah Sharif, was killed in an Israeli attack in the al-Bass refugee camp in the Tzur region. Abu al-Amin, who is also known as Fathi al-Sharif, also served as the chairman of UNRA teachers' organization in Lebanon. He was defined by Hamas as the leader of the movement in Lebanon, and as a member of the leadership abroad. https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rjstxhvr0#autoplay

In addition, The Palestinian Popular Front said that 3 of its leaders were killed in the attack https://news.walla.co.il/item/3694874 2.55.182.232 (talk) 06:25, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended confirmed protected request on 30 September 2024

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Proposal to remove the Asharq Al-Awsat reference following the sentence "An Israeli strike in Ain El Delb killed 45 people and injured at least 75 others", since the Asharq Al-Awsat article only gives a death count of 24 and does not support the larger (possibly more recent) numbers.

Incidentally, the Asharq Al-Awsat article does say 21 people were killed in a separate attack on a different area (Baalbek Hermel), and the sum of those numbers is 45— maybe the Al Jazeera source combined the numbers together, but it might just be a coincidence. Placeholderer (talk) 18:59, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the September section Placeholderer (talk) 19:00, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Third Lebanon War" listed at Redirects for discussion

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The redirect Third Lebanon War has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 30 § Third Lebanon War until a consensus is reached. CycloneYoris talk! 22:13, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 30 September 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close. Apparently premature, revert if disagree. (closed by non-admin page mover) Selfstudier (talk) 10:33, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) → Israel–Hezbollah war – since the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon has began and the death toll is climbing and above 1,000 I think this article should be move to war. HuntersHistory (talk) 19:35, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Surely it's gotten to the point where this is unanimously considered a war, right? How much more would you even need? Vinicius Z. Leão (talk) 23:17, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia article titles are subject to the same policies and content guidelines as article content. Unless reliable sources have named this conflict 'Israel-Hezbollah war' then the article may not be titled that way. Mr rnddude (talk) 23:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
are there sources that use this name? Abo Yemen✉ 08:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 October 2024

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I request you to add the amal movement to the fighting figures in this war because over 50 amal soldiers were martyred in this fight 94.187.10.212 (talk) 00:56, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Skitash (talk) 07:40, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 October 2024

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Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) → Israel–Hezbollah war (2023–present) – First, there has been significant escalation in the recent weeks of this conflict. Israel has conducted widespread airstrikes on Lebanon, assassinated senior officials of Hezbollah, including its leader, and invaded Lebanon. This is not just a conflict anymore. Second, reliable sources that previously also called it a conflict are beginning to use the term "war". For example, The New York Times, Washington Post, and CNN have begun to label this a war. The case for this is strong, and "Israel-Hezbollah war" has been used more commonly than "Third Lebanon War", another proposed name for this conflict. Personisinsterest (talk) 23:51, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hyphen changed to dash above, assuming that was just a typographical error. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:58, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Move the conflict has significantly escalated since the Pager explosions and killings of various leaders. There is a ground invasion, aerial attacks and even involvement for Iran. Keeping this as a 'conflict' is simply factitious at this point Thistheyear2023 (talk) 12:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Conflict instead of war is simply no longer accurate. (Edit: I am actually not too sure) Evaporation123 (talk) 16:37, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per standard in topic area. Almost all engagements in the Levant have been called a "war" involving Hamas or Hezbollah, regardless of its duration, and several are far less bloody already than this current spate of violence. Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 20:30, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Israel–Hezbollah war since the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon has began and the death toll is climbing and above 1,000 I think this article should be move to war. HuntersHistory (talk) 20:35, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's a war now. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 20:44, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It is not a war and the Israelis and Hezbollah do not call it that. Even the invasion article should not have been moved to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. They only advanced a small distance into the country! EpicAdventurer (talk) 21:01, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sources on the topic refer to it as an invasion[1]. Durraz0 (talk) 21:13, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is a separate topic, see 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. estar8806 (talk) ★ 00:22, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am pretty sure most combatants in a war usually don't refer to there conflict as a "war" in the modern era due to international agreements that forcibly impact what a country "at war" can do in regards with other countries e.g force neighboring countries to detain troops from the countries at war present in their countries . It's why in 2022 the Russian invasion of Ukraine is referred to as a "special military operation". Consequently, we generally rely on what the media deems the scale of the conflict to be. Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 21:32, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Israel has assasinated most of the Hezbollah leadership, and has now proceeded in a ground invasion. At this point it is most definitely a war. Durraz0 (talk) 21:10, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:PRECISION. This article covers the entire conflict since October of last year. We can't retroactively apply the term "war" to the almost full year of the conflict between then and now, even if now it could be considered a full-scale war. estar8806 (talk) ★ 22:04, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's quite obviously a war now, the title of the article should reflect that. GWA88 (talk) 00:16, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Since Israel invade Lebanon territory, we can't no more think this as mere conflict. -- 웬디러비/Wendy Lovey (talk) 05:22, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This article covers the entirety of the conflict starting from the 8th of October 2023. Most sources do not consider the events preceding September of this year to have constituted a war, so renaming the entire article would be misleading. Lightspecs (talk) 11:03, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per arguments above. It's officially a war now. The article could alternatively be renamed to 2024 Lebanon War or 2023–2024 Lebanon War for consistency with the other Lebanon War articles. Skitash (talk) 00:00, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Terrorism, WikiProject Syria, WikiProject Military history, WikiProject Military history/Post-Cold War task force, WikiProject Israel, and WikiProject Lebanon have been notified of this discussion. Web-julio (talk) 07:26, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Great Mercian (talk) 17:28, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's 2024 Israel–Hezbollah war already now. Web-julio (talk) 23:14, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is a small newly written article that did not even go through Draft phase, it should be merged with this article. Dilbaggg (talk) 09:40, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a distinct period of conflict and the war itself, this could cover the conflict and the second can cover the war The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 10:21, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should close this as there's an article about the war now/ Personisinsterest (talk) 23:41, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the first phase (until late September) as “conflict”, then make a seperate page for the war (late September-present) The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 05:00, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Many WP:RS are calling it a war now, there is an artuiicle about the invasion which means this is a war, anyway i am just providing two of many WP:RS that agrees that this is now a war: [[2]] and [[3]] and there are a lot more than these. Dilbaggg (talk) 09:38, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Israel has launched attacks at a much higher rate than Hezbollah has

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I'm not sure it belongs to the lede. While it's true and the cited article does say it (so I my edit summary was inaccurate), this is not a proof that it's one of the most important aspects of the war. It's also easy to find statistics that the Allies dropped many more bombs on Germany during the WW2 than vice versa and you can find statistics in relevant articles but it's not mentioned in the lede of the main article about the WW2. Alaexis¿question? 18:14, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't WWII so Idk what that's about. It's not even a war (yet), supposedly "limited". Here's another source with more detail https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-israeli-attacks-outnumbered-hezbollahs-five-to-one-our-analysis-finds Selfstudier (talk) 18:29, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:22, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:37, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why no general page?

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Sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place, but I have a minor question. The Israeli invasion of Lebanon can be easily connected to the war in Gaza. News agencies seem to treat both as different fronts of a wider war. Israel and Iran have also traded bombs back and forth. Wouldn't it be more manageable/accurate to have a general page for the larger war in the Middle East, rather than two separate pages on the Israel-Gaza and Israel-Lebanon conflicts? Legit question Beccabecco (talk) 07:22, 5 October 2024 (UTC)WP:ARBECR Selfstudier (talk) 14:24, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An umbrella article would be a good idea, in addition to the current articles. Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 13:58, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One would would need to establish notability for that article with sources referring to it, currently Middle East Crisis seems popular with RS at the moment. Selfstudier (talk) 14:28, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Though the suggestion has been struck, I agree with it. There are multiple sideshows now of the Israel-Hamas war that it at its core has shifted away from its localized roots to a regional geopolitical conflict between Israel + Co against Axis of Resistance states/miltias. Perhaps a RFC could be opened somewhere? Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 17:31, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RFC is unnecessary, just someone to make such an article and defend it. There's the redlink for the brave soul willing to undertake the mission. Selfstudier (talk) 17:55, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Mission accepted. I am hammering out an article atUser:Fantastic Mr. Fox/sandbox, I will move it to main space when it is coherent enough. I encourage others to help me in this endeavor. Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 19:47, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now in mainspace. Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 20:28, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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