Talk:Emmerson Mnangagwa

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Sources conflict on whether Mnangagwa became Minister of State Security in 1980 or in 1982 (our own article contradicts itself about this; it also contradicts about whether he became Justice Minister in 1988 or 1989), and I can't find a source for either date that I consider authoritative. Does anyone know of such a source? Everyking (talk) 07:09, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

See an article in the Daily Mail which highlights Mnangagwa's control over Mugabe since his failure in the March 2008 elections. http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/jul5a_2008.html#Z3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.134.89 (talk) 08:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

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Minister of National Security

His position as Minister of National Security from 1980 is omitted from the side-bar summary, as is any real reference to this in the article itself. As MNS Mnangagwa had a major role in suppressing the opposition, including the Gukurahundi in 1982-83.203.80.61.102 (talk) 18:33, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Lacking personal information

If anyone is able to find information about his family background, upbringing, his marriage and children, religious belief (if any), or political ideology, that would help round out this article, which reads more like a CV. Gabrielthursday (talk) 19:16, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Pronunciation of surname

Is there a Shona speaker who could give a definitive pronunciation? I am hearing Mna-nga-gwa (/mna.ŋa.gwa/ or /mna.ŋga.gwa/) without any obvious stress, but certainly not the pronunciation given in the article. LynwoodF (talk) 19:00, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Listening to more speakers, I think I am hearing a definite g in the second syllable. My ears are getting old. Anyone with sharper hearing out there? LynwoodF (talk) 19:30, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

I have been listening to more Zimbabweans pronouncing the name and it seems to me that there is a prenasalized g in the second syllable, and so I am now suggesting /mna.ᵑɡa.gwa/. Does anyone else have other suggestions? LynwoodF (talk) 19:30, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

The name Mnangagwa doesn't conform to the rules of Shona. Perhaps it comes from a different language. Mnangagwa himself pronounces it as IPA: [m̩.na.ˈᵑɡa.ɡwa] (see here for example at 2:27; I am not confident about marking the tones). But Shona doesn't normally have syllabic nasals like IPA: [m̩], and doesn't allow consonant clusters of the type IPA: [mn]. Many Shona-speaking Zimbabweans therefore seem to use different approximations of his name, and the spelling Munangagwa is often seen. In 2016, journalist Geoff Nyarota was called out on Twitter by fellow journalist Mduduzi Mathuthu (non-Shona, as can be seen from his name) for insisting on the spelling Munangagwa, to which he replied that the syllable "mna" is non-existent in the Shona language (see exchange here). Northern Ndebele does have syllabic nasals, so maybe that's where the name comes from (which would be ironic given his history with the Ndebele people). --Iceager (talk) 01:57, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Iceager. That is just the sort of information I was looking for. I was irritated by the attempt to represent the name in the article, but I see that someone else has now hidden this. I noticed a Zimbabwean making a dreadful meal of the name while speaking English, so I am not surprised to hear that it does not fit in perfectly. These days my hearing is not so good and I was not sure if native Shona speakers were saying [ŋ], [ŋg] or [ᵑɡ], but I did notice a syllabic m sometimes. I knew Shona was a tonal language, but I am not distinguishing tones.

On a similar point, I notice the pronunciation of Tsvangirai is given as [ts͎aŋ.ɡi.ra.i]. The whistled sibilant is right, but I was surprised by [ŋ] at the end of a syllable. Is this at all possible, or should the next syllable begin with [ᵑɡ]?

I am not at all an expert on African languages – I am more at home with Iberian phonology, though pretty rusty there! LynwoodF (talk) 10:12, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Year of birth?

The article has 1946. This means he was expelled from Technical College at 13/14, recruited into ZAPU at 15/16, joined ZANU the month before he turned 17 and completed military training at 17. Other sources, such as this say he was born in 1942. Which makes for more realistic ages for the above events. How reliable are the sources used to establish his DoB as given in the article? DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 05:20, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

The year was changed anonymously without explanation, and so I have changed it back. LynwoodF (talk) 08:22, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Picture of Mnangagwa

Mnangagwa's picture seems very blurry. Is there no better one available? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markyi370 (talk • contribs) 12:16, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Not really, as far as I can see. We have two pictures of him, both screenshots from the same video; I've actually just swapped them out because I think the other one is marginally better, but there isn't a lot in it, as it's a low-resolution video.

Wikipedia's image use policy is pretty strict - Wikipedia content is designed to be reused, so we can only use photographs that are either out of copyright, in the public domain, or licenced with a fairly small range of licences. Annoyingly Flickr has some great Creative Commons pictures of Mnangagwa, like this one, but they are licenced with a non-commercial licence so not allowed on Wikipedia. Anyone who can find or take a freely-licenced picture of Mnangagwa would be doing Wikipedia a great service! TSP (talk) 12:44, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

There was a good picture for a day or two after inauguration but it's gone now. Markyi370 (talk) 11:50, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

"President-Designate"?

We still have no source as far as I can tell that says Mnangagwa is "President-designate" - ZANU-PF sources have said they expect him to be made President on Friday, but that doesn't constitute a formal position that should be in an Infobox. I'm out of reverts so can't do anything about this, but if anyone else would care to either find a source saying he is "President-designate", or revert the addition of text from the infobox saying he is, that would be to Wikipedia's benefit.... TSP (talk) 13:08, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

I agree that there is too much crystal ball gazing here. Inventing the position of "President designate" is original research if it isn't supported by a reliable source. Strawberry4Ever (talk) 21:02, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

We have multiple sources confirming that Mr Mnangagwa will be sworn in on Friday (not 'expected to' be but rather, 'will be'), therefore, he is the President Designate, as he is designated to be in that position, this has not been disputed by any sources therefore, this does not warrant any further discussions. GippoHippo (talk) 10:06, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

References

He is "President Designate" when we have sources saying he is "President Designate", not before - see WP:SYN. We now have sources saying this, so that's fine. At the time when I wrote that, people were trying to justify it with sources calling him "likely successor". TSP (talk) 11:35, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Lacoste

Does Wikipedia need an article/ section about the faction given he's about to become president, I was looking for more information on it and what they believe and couldn't find anything. I had an account years ago by the way ( was called XxYaasehshalomxX - and I think I had another one called fourdots, lol!) but I forgot how to sign in! 195.88.192.148 (talk) 17:32, 22 November 2017 (UTC) Fourdots2 (talk) 13:11, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Protection for article (Semi-Protection)?

As Emmerson Mnangagwa is due to become the President of Zimbabwe, does his article not deserve the same Semi-Protection as is currently given to Robert Mugabe's page? GippoHippo (talk) 13:34, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

The place to ask for this is WP:RFPP. I'm not sure what arguments were made to justify protecting the Robert Mugabe article. You might need to demonstrate that there have been persistent violations of the WP:BLP policy. Strawberry4Ever (talk) 13:49, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

As per User:Strawberry4Ever, semi-protection isn't generally given proactively to articles whose subjects have a particular status; it is a countermeasure in response to regular vandalism. Many other African heads of government articles manage perfectly happily without semi-protection; I doubt it would be applied here unless the article starts to see vandalism from anonymous users at a much higher level than most articles. TSP (talk) 14:49, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Phelekezela Mphoko was vice President

Resolved

Is there any explanation as to why Mnangagwa has been made president, when by any constitutional or democratic process that would be the right of Mphoko. The removal of Mnangagwa from the post of vice-president, and his replacement by Mphoko, whatever the morality or political expediency, was done by the legitimate president at the time. An explanation of the legitimacy of his claim would enhance the article. Kevin McE (talk) 10:48, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Under the Zimbabwean constitution, the ruling party has the right to nominate a successor to the Presidency, as Mr Mphoko was expelled from the ZANU-PF party, the ZANU-PF were in their legal right to nominate a successor. (enhanced by the fact that Mr Mphoko was never in Zimbabwe during his acting presidency) GippoHippo (talk) 11:29, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

(edit clash) I have found it and done it myself. Kevin McE (talk) 11:31, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Lacoste faction

 Done
Hi I've created the article for Lacoste (political faction), I am not an expert in any of this so it would be great if other people could add more information :)

Fourdots2 (talk) 11:36, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Criticism / Reaction

I was expecting to find a section "Criticism" as I am sure Mnangagwa has many critics. I think it would be good to at least include a section for other nations' "Reactions" to his assumed presidency in light of the coup. Namely, where is the other side of the story to this guy? Jdevola (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

yeah I agree and I can try and add something next week Fourdots2 (talk) 11:18, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

 Done - I recently added a sub section under presidency titled 'Criticisms' which should solve this issue. (Incidentally, I also added some information to the criticisms. –GippoHippo (talk) 10:40, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

File nominated for deletion on commons

file:c:File:Emmerson Mnangagwa 2017.png Reason:There is a section on the website to request the usage of image. The request was not shown in Wikimedia. "https://www.insidevoa.com/p/5719.html"  subpage:link 

Message automatically deposited by a robot on 09:11, 2 January 2018 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harideepan (talk • contribs)

Factual errors concerning the war years

I have made several minor changes to the article with regards to general information concerning the Rhodesian Bush War. The original revision claimed that Mnangagwa left school and joined the war in the late 1950s, and alternatively that he joined the war as a guerrilla fighter in 1962. Hostilities did not actually break out until 1964, so the war hadn't actually started yet when he left school or went abroad for guerrilla training. Another dubious claim was that Mnangagwa "joined the liberation movement" after he left school. This is misleading to suggest, as there was no single movement active at the time. There were multiple movements, the most prominent of which was the Zimbabwe African People's Union (ZAPU), but these were only just beginning to emerge from the cauldron of nationalist politics in Southern Rhodesia at the time. I changed the wording to note Mnangagwa became active in anti-colonial politics after he left school, and omitted all references to there being an ongoing war prior to 1964.

Finally, there was the use of the term "Zimbabwe War of Independence" to describe the Rhodesian Bush War. "Rhodesian Bush War" is the accepted mainstream terminology for the war, and unlike the similar conflicts in Namibia, Angola, and Mozambique the war cannot be accurately described as a war of independence. We don't call the MK insurgency in South Africa the "South African War of Independence" for a reason. The insurgencies in Rhodesia and South Africa were not aimed at independence from a colonial power per se, but the end of white minority rule in countries that were already independent. The distinction is an important one. --Katangais (talk) 17:35, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

The gross oversimplification of facts concerning the alleged single liberation movement and the paradoxial anachronism that Mnangagwa left school and joined the war in the late 1950s have been re-added without explanation. Discuss here or this inaccurate information will continue to be removed. --Katangais (talk) 19:15, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Air Marshal Shiri salutes President Emmerson Mnangagwa at his inauguration.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:21, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Main Image

Following a discussion on Robert Mugabe's talk page, I think it would be good if we can find a decent resolution of the President's official portrait as seen here, as this would be free to use under Zimbabwean copyright laws, as it is an official government image, and most world leaders (I'm thinking especially American presidents) have their official portraits on their Wikipedia pages. Mangwanani ^(talk) 10:56, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Could you please explain how this image is a) free under Zimbabwean copyright laws (which of the six items mentioned in the licencing informatione applies?) and b) how it is free under non-Zimbabwean copyright laws that need also to be followed for the worldwide use in Commons? Thanking you in advance, --Vanellus (talk) 15:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Emmerson Mnangagwa presidential inauguration.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:53, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Emmerson Mnangagwa Official Portrait.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:55, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Updates?

It seems like this article's coverage cuts off in 2019. What has happened since? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Emmerson Mnangagwa Official Portrait.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:07, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Emmerson Mnangagwa Official Portrait.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:52, 19 July 2022 (UTC)