Talk:Dimitris Liantinis

Liantinis' academic rank

In the article you mention that Liantinis was "Deputy Professor of Philosophy in the areas of Education of Ancient and New Greek Literature". However in his biography at [1] it clearly states that he was "Professor at the School of Philosophy at the University of Athens" having served prior to receiving his PhD as "Teaching Assistant at the Laboratory of Education". After having read the corresponding page in Greek [2], it becomes apparent that Liantinis held many positions during his academic career, amongst which "Επίκουρος Καθηγητής" and "Αναπληρωτής Καθηγητής" which are the two highest academic ranks in Greece. That would be like "Distinguished Professor" or "Professor Emeritus" in the United States. I am not familiar with academic ranks in other countries but the way you describe his rank gives me the impression Liantinis was a second-rank professor. I've changed "Deputy" to "Distinguished" but I'm not sure what's the best way around this. --79.107.11.111 (talk) 15:33, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

I am afraid you've got it completely wrong. First of all, professor emeritus ("retired professor") translates to ομότιμος καθηγητής in Greek [3]. The other correspondences are: adjunct professor = έκτακτος καθηγητής, associate professor = αναπληρωτής καθηγητής, assistant professor = επίκουρος καθηγητής [4], lecturer = λέκτορας [5]. The rank order in Greece is: professor > associate professor > assistant professor > lecturer. The term "distinguished professor" does not even exist in Greek [6]. The source you gave gives "αναπληρωτής καθηγητής της Φιλοσοφίας της αγωγής και της Διδακτικής των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων" which translates to "Associate Professor of the Philosophy of Education and of Teaching of Greek." --Omnipaedista (talk) 09:10, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

I can assure you I am not wrong since I am currently Lecturer at University of Athens having spent all of my adult life in Greek universities. The rank order in Greece is : Καθηγητής > Αναπληρωτής Καθηγητής > Επίκουρος Καθηγητής > Λέκτορας [7]. I said I was not familiar with academic ranks in other countries; at any rate, the correct translation is Full Professor > Associate Professor > Assistant Professor > Lecturer [8]. There remains the matter of how to correctly translate "Φιλοσοφία της Aγωγής και της Διδακτικής των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων στον Τομέα Παιδαγωγικής του Τμήματος Φιλοσοφίας, Παιδαγωγικής και Ψυχολογίας". On the one hand, there is no discipline such as "Φιλοσοφία της Aγωγής και της Διδακτικής των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων". These must be the titles of the courses that Liantinis taught. "Διδακτική των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων" is best translated as "Ways of teaching Greek Literature" and "Αγωγή" is not synonymous with "Education" (Education -> Παιδεία). There is unfortunately no good translation of "Αγωγή" in English; for lack of a better word, one should use "Education". But on the other hand, one does not usually describe a professor by the courses he teaches. We say "Professor of Classics" or "Professor at the Department of Classics", not "Professor of Introduction to the history of Classical Athens". Therefore, in the case of Liantinis we should say "Associate Professor at the Faculty of Philosophy, Pedagogy and Psychology of the University of Athens" [9].--91.140.39.113 (talk) 20:27, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

You were completely wrong regarding translations and Liantinis' rank. You also violated WP:INTEGRITY here. What you inserted is correct but that is not what the source says. In any case the phrases "Professor of the Philosophy of Education" and "Professor of Teaching English" do exist in English, so the translation is pretty straightforward. --Omnipaedista (talk) 22:27, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

The source states "αναπληρωτής καθηγητής της Φιλοσοφίας της Aγωγής και της Διδακτικής των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων στον Τομέα Παιδαγωγικής του Τμήματος Φιλοσοφίας, Παιδαγωγικής και Ψυχολογίας του Πανεπιστημίου Αθηνών". We both agree that "αναπληρωτής καθηγητής" is translated as "associate professor". I checked and "Φιλοσοφία της Aγωγής και Διδακτική των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων" is indeed the course that Liantinis taught. It is customary in Greek Universities to refer to professors by the course they teach [10]. The way this works is that the candidate professor will present the course he wishes to teach before a committee and then elections will take place [11]. "Education" does not capture accurately the meaning of "Αγωγή" and since "Aγωγή" appears in English both in composite words [12] like "pedagogic" and by itself as "agoge" [13], the accurate translation of "Φιλοσοφία της Aγωγής" would be "Philosophy of Agoge". "Philosophy of Education" is the translation of "Φιλοσοφία της Εκπαίδευσης". The translation of "Διδακτική των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων" as "teaching Greek" is wrong. "Ελληνικά μαθήματα" means "Greek Language and Literature". When one uses "Greek" by itself, one implies the Greek language only. The translation of "Διδακτική" as "Teaching" is also wrong. "Teaching" is the translation of "Διδασκαλία". Hence "Teaching Greek" is the translation of "Διδασκαλία της Ελληνικής Γλώσσας". "Διδακτική" means "ways of teaching" or "teaching how to teach". The word "Didactics" is used in English [14], hence the accurate translation of "Διδακτική των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων" is "Didactics of Greek Language and Literature". To sum it up so far; "αναπληρωτής καθηγητής της Φιλοσοφίας της Aγωγής και της Διδακτικής των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων" is translated as "Associate Professor teaching the course 'Philosophy of Agoge and Didactics of Greek Language and Literature'". The rest of the description "στον Τομέα Παιδαγωγικής του Τμήματος Φιλοσοφίας, Παιδαγωγικής και Ψυχολογίας του Πανεπιστημίου Αθηνών" is translated as "at the Department of Pedagogy of the Faculty of Philosophy, Pedagogy and Psychology of the University of Athens" to which you agreed. As I mentioned in my previous post, I omitted the course title in the interest of brevity and as common practice and honestly I can't see how this constitutes a violation of integrity. As I stated in my original post, I noted when I first read the article that the description "Deputy Professor of Philosophy in the areas of Education of Ancient and New Greek Literature" was obviously wrong and so I suggested an alternative (Distinguished Professor) which I knew it was probably not the right one and I said so in order for someone responsible to look further into the matter. Please tell me to which my translations you object. My problem is that English is not my native language and although I know what all those terms mean in Greek, I'm having a hard time to translate them into English. I get the feeling of you being hostile disregarding the fact that I have been devoting my time for free in order to improve this article. I re-edited "Associate Professor of the Philosophy of Education and of Teaching of Greek at the University of Athens" into "Associate Professor at the Department of Pedagogy of the faculty of Philosophy, Pedagogy and Psychology of the University of Athens, teaching the course of 'Philosophy of Agoge and Didactics of Greek Language and Literature'". If you would like to use the shorter "αναπληρωτής καθηγητής της Φιλοσοφίας της αγωγής και της Διδακτικής των Ελληνικών μαθημάτων στο Πανεπιστήμιο Αθηνών" then the correct translation would be "Associate Professor at the University of Athens, teaching the course of 'Philosophy of Agoge and Didactics of Greek Language and Literature'. Or you could omit the course title altogether and say "Associate Professor at the Department of Pedagogy of the Faculty of Philosophy, Pedagogy and Psychology of the University of Athens" or "Associate Professor at the University of Athens".79.107.14.169 (talk) 11:46, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

(outdent) I do not think I am being hostile. I am just pointing out that Wikipedia's policies are very clear about certain matters. Special Education is Ειδική Αγωγή in Greek.[15] Educational Studies is Επιστήμες Αγωγής.[16] We cannot translate it to "Agoge". We could not translate διδασκαλία as "Didactics" either. There are standard English translations for these words. Inventing new ones constitutes original research and synthesis. --Omnipaedista (talk) 22:07, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Disappearance and death

According to [17] Liantinis had instructed his cousin to reveal the location of the crypt where his remains could be found after seven years and no lethal substances were found to determine the cause of death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.107.11.111 (talk) 15:19, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Personal opinions under "Greek vs Jewish culture"

Under section "Greek vs Jewish culture", there is a big parentheses with what seems like a pretty personal opinion of the author, without any justification and/or citation.

(This somewhat common presupposition of the relation between the rise and confirmation of Christianity (in society) and Paganism, ought to be studied in great detail when considering the same relation in the east between Christians and Pagans; for the violence and harshness which characterises the western Christian stand against Paganism, bears little relevance to what occurred in the east. Therefore, it is perhaps his pro-enlightenment mentality that led Liantinis to suppose that the western Christian action toward Paganism was the same as the eastern Christian one.)

I would suggest to either remove this parentheses, or (better) to add a citation, either in or outside wikipedia regarding this difference of Western and Eastern Christianity.