Talk:Culture of the United States
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possible misspelling in gun culture section
[edit]Ownership of handguns, while not uncommon, is less common than ownership of long guns.
after the coma before is.
if spelled wrong please if not ignore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.84.28 (talk) 16:54, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2023
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Change this:
![](http://up.wiki.x.io/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Breezewood%2C_Pennsylvania.jpg/220px-Breezewood%2C_Pennsylvania.jpg)
To this:
![](http://up.wiki.x.io/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Liberty02.jpg/220px-Liberty02.jpg)
I believe the Statue of Liberty is a more appropriate image to use to represent American culture and its ideas, not an image of Breezewood. Dufhrug87rsg (talk) 18:20, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ "The Story Behind the Internet's Favorite Photo of Car Culture". Bloomberg.com. 2019-07-24. Retrieved 2023-03-11.
- ^ Simon, Ed (2022-07-21). "Breezewood, Pennsylvania: The Most American Place on Earth - Belt Magazine". beltmag.com. Retrieved 2023-03-11.
- ^ "Statue of Liberty". World Heritage. UNESCO. Archived from the original on August 28, 2012. Retrieved October 20, 2011.
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{Edit semi-protected}}
template. Actualcpscm (talk) 18:50, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
Discussion
[edit]Along with the original request, I would "Support" changing the lead image to the Statue of Liberty, which is a universal symbol of American culture. I would also be open to other ideas, but the current image is very piss poor to represent the overarching topic of "Culture of the United States". Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
- The cited UNESCO source doesn’t support the wording of the Statue of Liberty caption. The Statue of Liberty is also a symbol that is heavy with nationalism—not good for Wikipedia’s policy of NPOV. إيان (talk) 04:04, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
- And how is a meme about Breezewood, Pennsylvania any more neutral?
- Per their article:
Breezewood has been labeled a "tourist trap" and choke point because traffic between I-70 and the Turnpike is routed along surface streets lined with gas stations, hotels, restaurants, and traffic lights, rather than directly via a freeway-to-freeway junction
KlayCax (talk) 19:39, 22 March 2023 (UTC) - The Statue of Liberty is too nationalistic for an article on "Culture of the United States"? A statue that was a gift from the French? The same statue is that is the most iconic symbol of immigration and acceptance? The same statue that has enscribed upon it "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore." is too nationalistic? Violating WP:NPOV is a laughable claim here. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:46, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Don't change, for now. The fact that the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France alone should disqualify it. Let's have a picture of something purely American. What I'd like to see is a shot that is a visual representation of the article's opening: "American culture, encompasses various social behaviors, institutions, and norms in the United States, including forms of speech, literature, music, visual arts, performing arts, food, religion, law, technology as well as other customs, beliefs, and forms of knowledge. American culture has been shaped by the history of the United States, its geography, and various internal and external forces and migrations." I am not claiming that the SoL is a violation of any policy, but it is rather propagandistic. Whereas Breezewood, well that is America, an America that can be seen in a thousand (non-scientific number) different versions across the country. The SoL is one and it is in NYC. This other view is almost everywhere. For a statue I'd rather see Mt Rushmore, which at least is made in America by an American. But let's see if we can't come up with am image that we all can agree represents American culture. Carptrash (talk) 21:42, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- That is a silly defense for putting a highway rest stop as the header image of an article about the culture of the US. Similar sights can be seen along highways in most countries outside of the US - highway-side development is ubiquitous in the UK, does that mean a picture of that is more emblematic of British culture than Big Ben is, or Westminster Abbey?
- Also the "Give me your tired" quote is not really inscribed on the statue. Carptrash (talk) 21:53, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- The Breezewood, Pennsylvania picture - inserted without consensus - is clearly intended to be a POV-pushing picture. (Check the sources used.)
- If we're going to take down the Statue of Liberty picture as "NPOV-violating" and "bias". Then it's absolutely laughable to have a picture of Breezewood (an infamous tourist trap in the United States) simultaneously inserted into the article. KlayCax (talk) 22:58, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- The French gave it to us, so we can't use it? More absurdity. Again, I'm open to other suggestions, but the reasons against the SoL are laughable. If you are going to vote down a suggestion, present a better option, or if you are going to make a policy claim, make a proper one. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:25, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Please do not put words in my mouth. Or words off my keyboard. I did not say that we "can't" use the SoL picture. Nor do I find my perspective to be absurd. Such comments do not help us reach some consensus. Please explain how this statue, a gift from the people of France, which was designed by French sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi on a metal metal framework by another Frenchman Gustave Eiffel in 1886 is a good symbol for American culture in 2023. This statue that "is the most iconic symbol of immigration and acceptance," is not really appropriate at a time when much of American culture is wildly anti-immigrant and not really prone to acceptance. This seems more like wishful thinking than anything else. Perhaps we should make a list of the traits that make up American culture and figure out a picturre from there. Carptrash (talk) 05:18, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- "Perhaps we should make a list of the traits that make up American culture" I would suggest listing xenophobia, anti-intellectualism, reactionary views, and superstition. Dimadick (talk) 13:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- So perhaps a picture of neo-nazis demonstrating at the Wall? Interesting, but I doubt it would help us get to consensus. Carptrash (talk) 17:14, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- There is no good evidence to suggest that the United States is (in the modern day) any more anti-immigrant than other countries.
- Denmark, Sweden, France, Italy, Poland, Hungary, the United Kingdom, et al. all have/had notable movements opposed to (at least to a certain extent) immigration. Popular polling also suggests that the United States is no more anti-immigrant than other countries. Opposition to immigration and prejudicial attitudes on other issues have also dramatically fallen.
- We similarly don't put an image of Golden Dawn (despite the fact that they received almost received 10% of the vote in the 2014 European Parliament elections) for the same reason. Or hypothetically having articles link the culture of Germany to Hitler, the culture of Belgium to Leopold II of Belgium, or the culture of Turkey to the Armenian genocide. Of course topics race, ethnicity, and heritage relate to the U.S. — including works like Uncle Tom's Cabin and To Kill A Mockingbird — but the current article is definitely not how to do it.
- Presently, much of this article fails the standards of WP: NPOV, and the quality of it has gone down significantly in the past year. KlayCax (talk) 18:49, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think that any one here is suggesting that the United States is any more anti-immigrant than other countries but I don't see where bringing other countries into the discussion is helpful. As far as American attitudes towards gay marriage is concerned, (your link) well are you suggesting that we use the Rainbow flag as the image? Interesting, I'll have to think about that. Carptrash (talk) 22:18, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- So perhaps a picture of neo-nazis demonstrating at the Wall? Interesting, but I doubt it would help us get to consensus. Carptrash (talk) 17:14, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- "Perhaps we should make a list of the traits that make up American culture" I would suggest listing xenophobia, anti-intellectualism, reactionary views, and superstition. Dimadick (talk) 13:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- Please do not put words in my mouth. Or words off my keyboard. I did not say that we "can't" use the SoL picture. Nor do I find my perspective to be absurd. Such comments do not help us reach some consensus. Please explain how this statue, a gift from the people of France, which was designed by French sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi on a metal metal framework by another Frenchman Gustave Eiffel in 1886 is a good symbol for American culture in 2023. This statue that "is the most iconic symbol of immigration and acceptance," is not really appropriate at a time when much of American culture is wildly anti-immigrant and not really prone to acceptance. This seems more like wishful thinking than anything else. Perhaps we should make a list of the traits that make up American culture and figure out a picturre from there. Carptrash (talk) 05:18, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- The French gave it to us, so we can't use it? More absurdity. Again, I'm open to other suggestions, but the reasons against the SoL are laughable. If you are going to vote down a suggestion, present a better option, or if you are going to make a policy claim, make a proper one. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:25, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Don't change, for now, per some of the points raised by Carptrash. KlayCax don't forsake the discussion to try to railroad your POV, as you have done at the United States article. It's WP:disruptive editing. إيان (talk) 19:00, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- If we're removing the Statue of Liberty for having a positive connotation. How is an image of Breezewood not a negative connotation?
- Breezewood was added in just recently. So it's not like it's been long standing precedent. What did did Carptrash state? إيان? KlayCax (talk) 19:02, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- Also - as I tagged you yesterday - I'm placing a NPOV tag and writing a 1,500-2,000 word response on talk today/early tomorrow. (As of central standard time - 2:00 PM/14:00 - right now.) KlayCax (talk) 19:06, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- There's no need for talk page manifestos. Besides, aren't we still waiting for your draft that you promised at talk:United States?
- And yes—this article, US culture, has major issues and there are many ways it can be improved. Wouldn't your efforts be more fruitful if directed toward that? إيان (talk) 04:21, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- I'm presently in residency. My response is going to have to be long because there's a lot of issues with the present United States and Culture of the United States articles that I wanted to lay out clearly + in detail.
Wouldn't your efforts be more fruitful if directed toward that?
What do you mean? KlayCax (talk) 22:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- I like Carptrash's idea:
What I'd like to see is a shot that is a visual representation of the article's opening: "American culture, encompasses various social behaviors, institutions, and norms in the United States, including forms of speech, literature, music, visual arts, performing arts, food, religion, law, technology as well as other customs, beliefs, and forms of knowledge. American culture has been shaped by the history of the United States, its geography, and various internal and external forces and migrations."
- And also if a new image is to be chosen, their call to
make a list of the traits that make up American culture and figure out a picture from there.
- The Statue of Liberty image wasn't voted down
for having a positive connotation
, as you see it, and similarly the Breezewood image wasn't added because of anynegative connotation
. The Breezewood image is appropriate because A) Breezewood has been widely, popularly, recently, and democratically used to represent American culture, B) it encapsulates many dominant features of American culture, such as car culture, fast food, highways, chain stores, etc. C) it's not an image that comes from a nationalist vision of American culture. إيان (talk) 19:42, 25 March 2023 (UTC)- I am not suggesting removing the SoL "for having a positive connotation." I am suggesting not putting it back because it, at best, represents the USA 150 (carpmath) years ago. I feel that we need a picture that represents American culture now. So I am curious as to what the objections to the Breezewood picture might be. Okay, it ain't that pretty at all, but it is pretty real. As mentioned above, it contains "many dominant features of American culture, such as car culture, fast food, highways, chain stores, etc." I'd throw in "mass culture" too, and perhaps something about the American political system and how it intertwines with commercial interests. (That from the history of how Breezewood got there) So come up with a suggested image that includes as many facets of American culture as this and if it is a more positive image, that's fine with me. Carptrash (talk) 20:06, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- I second Carptrash here. إيان (talk) 04:27, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- I am not suggesting removing the SoL "for having a positive connotation." I am suggesting not putting it back because it, at best, represents the USA 150 (carpmath) years ago. I feel that we need a picture that represents American culture now. So I am curious as to what the objections to the Breezewood picture might be. Okay, it ain't that pretty at all, but it is pretty real. As mentioned above, it contains "many dominant features of American culture, such as car culture, fast food, highways, chain stores, etc." I'd throw in "mass culture" too, and perhaps something about the American political system and how it intertwines with commercial interests. (That from the history of how Breezewood got there) So come up with a suggested image that includes as many facets of American culture as this and if it is a more positive image, that's fine with me. Carptrash (talk) 20:06, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- Also - as I tagged you yesterday - I'm placing a NPOV tag and writing a 1,500-2,000 word response on talk today/early tomorrow. (As of central standard time - 2:00 PM/14:00 - right now.) KlayCax (talk) 19:06, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
Block evasion by User:Dcasey98. |
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- "Support" lead image change. Breezewood, Pennsylvania image falls into MOS:IMAGEQUALITY; too small, hidden in clutter, unreadable at thumb, needs a caption to even tell you why its there?. Statue of Liberty is at least readable but sorta just says "America". A good lead image for the article may be Jazz, [1], [2], can't say everything in the lead but at least it should be readable. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 00:50, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
- I actually like the Louis Armstrong image, the second one is ok but not my first choice. American Jazz is certainly representative of American culture, and Louis Armstrong is certainly representative of American Jazz. I like that at least as good as the Statue of Liberty, as it is more about culture and less about the US in a generic sense. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 16:54, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - I think one should have iconic images in the culture lead. The Statue of Liberty is a great idea, so is Uncle Sam. I think we can have an array of several pictures representing Jazz (say Nina Simone picture?), Statue of Liberty, Uncle Sam... I don't think an internet meme picture is appropriate in this case, no matter one's stance on American car culture and urban planning. So overall I support. Homerethegreat (talk) 10:18, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Block evasion by User:Dcasey98. |
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![]() instead, for reasons already stated. Threefrgy (talk) 02:04, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
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So, rank choice:
- , no image, topic is broad, this is a WP:SUMMARY article and the infobox may be enough.
- , Statue of Liberty, this is a WP:SUMMARY article and that is a summary image and does follow MOS:LEADIMAGE "of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works"
- , Louis?, hits it at a slant instead of trying to hit something on the nose.
Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 01:58, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
Block evasion by User:Dcasey98. |
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Support, I think we should change the main image to the statue of liberty or some other image. It's a universally recognized american symbol. I've seen some people call the image nationalistic, which is something I strongly disagree with.--Zyxrq (talk) 23:51, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
Support per Dennis Brown: It was gifted America by the French, thus it ain't American? It's nationalistic because it is quite literally to welcome immigrants? Bizarre. The current images are OK, but still not as widely-recognized as the statue. Then there's, uh...a WP:RECENT meme denigrating America (imagine if someone put on Culture of the United Kingdom a negative depiction of them, like Bloody Sunday) and not even fully representing American culture (well, one notes a negative depiction of a culture would always omit something). Heavy Water (talk • contribs) 00:09, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Early Chicago Skyscrapers". UNESCO. Retrieved 5 April 2023.
- ^ "New York City Skyscrapers: Topics in Chronicling America". Library of Congress. Retrieved 5 April 2023.
- ^ Sorkin, Michael. "Skyscrapers from A to Z". Reading Design. Verso. Retrieved 5 April 2023.
- ^ Carrière, Léa. "The emergence of skyscrapers in America". Stem Explained. Retrieved 5 April 2023.
- ^ Friedman, Donald (October 1, 2020). The Structure of Skyscrapers in America, 1871–1900; Their History and Preservation. Association for Preservation Technology. ISBN 978-0998634715. Retrieved 5 April 2023.
- ^ "chain store". Britannica. Encyclopaedia Britannica. Retrieved 5 April 2023.
- ^ Alexander, James (December 18, 2009). "The unlikely origin of fish and chips". BBC News. Retrieved July 16, 2013.
- ^ "Who invented the automobile?". Library of Congress. Retrieved 5 April 2023.
- ^ "Breezewood, Pennsylvania". Know Your Meme. Retrieved 5 April 2023.
Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2024
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Replace the first citation needed tag with this source https://isso.ucsf.edu/us-culture 172.58.209.83 (talk) 07:05, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
Colin Woodard
[edit]Is Woodard really a "cultural geographer" (whatever that is)? He wrote a pop history book or two on the subject, which should not be cited as legitimate scholarship. Woodard isn't an academic authority on either history or culture Jonathan f1 (talk) 21:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2024
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Remove template corrections as it has been fixed. 64.189.18.51 (talk) 13:46, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
Not done: This article still contains vast swathes of unsourced information, with many statements tagged inline with [citation needed], so the banner atop the article remains valid. Left guide (talk) 06:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
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