Talk:Clark Air Base

Is this photo of Clark AFB circa 1969?

The photo at right was formerly inlined at Tan Son Nhut Air Base with the caption

"F-102 interceptors of the 509th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron (left and middle) and F-4 Phantom IIs (right) and B-47 Stratojet (foreground) at Tan Son Nhut Air Base - 1969"

However, multiple commenters at the image file's summary and its talk page asserted that this photo was mis-labled (presumably by the original source, credited as the USAF Historical Research Agency). One person states "...it is of the south ramp and flightline of Clark Air Base in the Philippines." Can someone verify this and/or comment on the date? There seem to be several locations in the late '60s where one might plausibly find the 509th. (see, for instance, Don_Muang_Royal_Thai_Air_Force_Base#509th_Fighter_Interceptor_Squadron)

Sisson (talk) 09:28, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Clark AF armory raid

Anyone remember the date when there was an attempted raid on the armory in 1989 by rebels? It was around the same time the Army Colonel was assassinated in Manilla. Can't find information on the internet about it and I can't remember if it came before or after. Thanks in advance. --Fafyrd 06:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Locate former military personnel stationed at Clark

do you have any idea where to find american names who used to work in Clark Air Base? Because i have a friend whose father is american and he's trying to locate him... is there any possible way that we can find his name and where his whereabouts now? my friend's father's name is Norman Durgala he was in teh North Carolina Air National Guard...

websites that you can recommend will be greatly appreciated.. thanks so much... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.137.25.221 (talk • contribs) .

I don't think there are. But I think I found your friend's father. He is living in Greenville, North Carolina. I found him listed on this site where he entered his cat "Jingle Bells" (picture [1] and [2]) in a contest for a 2005 cat calendar for the Marley Fund. I can't find his phone number, he's unlisted. But his full name is Norman Eugene Durgala, 53 years old and has lived in North Carolina and New York. I got his info from http://www.1800ussearch.com and you would have to pay $19.95 to get more info like phone numbers. Hope this helps. --Chris S. 00:40, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

• Try http://www.classmates.com.

Hi there, i´m also looking for my father. He was a soldier in balibago clark airbase and i´m trying to look for him, but i have no clue where to look because the only thing i know is his name Steve Stortevant and i´ve got a picture of him from my mom. My mom doesn´t know where he lives in the U.S. so its somehow a big problem for me. Hope somebody can help —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.218.107.104 (talk) 17:57, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Try contacting the local VFW Post 2485 http://www.vfwpost2485.com. Balibago is a small community and the US Military expats more or less stick together in that area. It's a start anyway. Good luck in your search. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.6.181.49 (talk) 08:16, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Where is it exactly?

It is near Angeles City, but in which exact town/city? --Howard the Duck 14:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

It's its own town/city. Military bases, as far as I know, are usually their own. Here where I live, McChord Air Force Base and Fort Lewis are not part of Tacoma or Lakewood, Washington. It's just.. there. They have their own ZIP Codes - when I lived on Clark, we had a California ZIP CODE of 96286. Hmmmmmmmm... I did some googling and it looks the current Clark Special Economic Zone has a ZIP code of 2009, which is also Angeles City's. --Chris S. 06:52, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Chris S. is right on the money. The southeast part of the base snuggles up against the northwest side of Angeles City, so really they were sister communities. Flanking that contact point was Angeles City's legendary bar district. --Rolypolyman 03:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

So should we include it in Category:Municipalities of Pampanga? --Howard the Duck 16:45, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Confrontation

"Following several late-night violent attacks against American personnel by Filipino citizens during the late summer of 1968, the Base Commander, Colonel Ernest P. Pate established a curfew. The city government of Angeles City retaliated by declaring the entire city off-limits to U.S. personnel". Retaliation for the curfew? am I missing something? Phonemonkey 14:04, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

• What you're missing (because it's not mentioned in the article) is that the curfew was applied to filipinos who worked on the base. My family was there in '72, the curfew and the resulting 'off-limits' restrictions for the city were a tit-for-tat thing that everyone still talked about. Xaa 12:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

The curfew imposed in the summer of 1968 had nothing to do with the curfew of 1972. The one in 1968 was just for Americans in Angeles and Balibago due to the murders of some airmen. I saw a couple of them lying in the streets on my way to work. And I was also jumped, but survived. The 1972 curfew was imposed by President Marcos when he declared martial law. It was from midnight to 4 a.m. It was for everyone in the Philippines. Rdm1968 (talk) 03:37, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Rains of '72

In July, 1972, central Luzon experienced a month of nearly continuous rain, resulting in 96 inches falling on the plain around Clark.

I was there, it was amazing. Day and night, all the time, rain, rain, rain. In church, they talked about Noah and the Great Flood. I was ten - looking at what was happening, I could believe it. Endless rain, day and night. Sometimes it was torrential rain, huge raindrops that slapped into your skin with hundreds of little, almost painful blows. Sometimes it was a light rain, almost a drizzle. But it never stopped. It was incredible. Xaa 13:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Split history section

I have split out the history section containing the excellent work by SunKing and others, and moved it to its own article at History of Clark Air Base. The main article was getting far too long (see guidelines at Wikipedia:Article_size) and it was overwhelmingly dominated by historical content. -Rolypolyman 23:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Stotsenberg instead of Stotsenburg?

I was stationed there in 60s, and remember it as "Stotsenberg," but memory is a fragile thing. The hits on internet searches find "Stotsenburg" mostly in Wikipedia. Others such as this one (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/pam/2007/02/11/bus/hotel.stotsenberg.opens.in.clark.economic.zone.html) or this one (http://www.pacificwrecks.com/airfields/philippines/clark/index.html) among a number of others use the spelling "Stotsenberg." One of the sites devoted to former AB also has it as "Stotsenberg": http://www.clarkab.org/history/index.htm. I suppose the only definitive answer would be in military archives, although the name of the soldier buried at Arlington, identified in that web site as "Col. John M. Stotsenberg," might have some confirmatory value. Another site devoted to the former AB also lists it as "Stotsenberg": http://zcap.freeyellow.com/pix3.htm.

MaxwellPerkins 07:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Base Extent

The article correctly notes that the military reservation extended north (beyond the gunnery range at Crow Valley). It also extended west for a number of miles as well. When I was stationed at the PACAF Jungle Survival School there, we had been conducting our training in an area west of Crow Valley, near Mt. Gatas in Tarlac, but off the military reservation. An auditor's review of our per diem expenses put paid to that — we had to move our training back onto the reservation. The engineers at Clark opened up the old South China Sea Trail which leads straight up along the flanks of Mt. Pinatubo to the South China Sea (and was one Japanese invasion route in WWII). Our command post was on a ridge above the river about an hour west of the AB. That's an hour in 6x6 up a narrow, windy dirt road. Maybe 10 minutes in the H19s that we had for air recovery training.

MaxwellPerkins 08:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Crow Valley location

This article gives its distance from Clark as 30 miles. I don't believe it can be more than 15, if you measure on Google Earth from Clark to the approximate location on the river flowing down into Tarlac.

MaxwellPerkins 08:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I just noticed that the article on Crow Valley places it 14 miles from Clark.

MaxwellPerkins 08:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

White lady

Clark's unique size and history allowed it to develop its own supernatural lore. By the 1970s, the Filipino "white lady" legend had established itself at Clark. Most variations of the story involved a young woman dressed in white who would hail a taxi late at night, and then would vanish from the vehicle enroute.

For this White Lady (ghost) on this article there is no citation however... this is more like the Balete Drive story... I see another website on the web that describe this differently. [3] ...again Wikipedia is becoming unreliable... its really important to cite. I know many people deliver different stories... and there is so many variations of the story LOL Getonyourfeet 07:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Again I am n00b the reference i gave was for subic base... but still kinda strange to me that it has the same story lineGetonyourfeet 07:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Contamination of the base

Though many events still occur at Clark, the American government left some residual toxic chemicals that now affect the groundwater near the base. Native Filipinos who live nearby are affected by these chemicals, such as mercury, resulting in leukemia, gangrene, and other severe diseases and health problems. The United States denies responsibility for these actions. Several organizations, such as FACES (Filipino American Coalition for Environmental Safeguards) and PTFBC (People Task Force for Bases Clean-up), are attempting to begin the detoxification process on the bases.

This passage (as with the rest of the article) is completely unsourced. Proof that there are actually toxic chemicals on the base? Proof that the chemicals are a proximate cause of the Filipinos' health problems? I dispute the NPOV of this section because it states simply that "The [US] denies responsibility for these actions" without providing any evidence to support the notion that they should be taking responsibility. This should read like an encyclopedia, not an activist's web site. Americaninseoul 02:42, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

This is fact, not an activist's bias. For more evidence, you can read this article out of Stars and Stripes, a daily newspaper printed just for the U.S. Military:

http://pstripes.com/jan01/ed013001j.html

Excerpt:

"The United States also left behind horrific messes at Clark Air Base and Subic Bay Naval Base when the Philippines government cancelled U.S. leases in 1991, Lynch said. The bases became heavily industrialized with airfields, ship repair docks, and petroleum tanks — all of which generate significant amounts of hazardous waste, he said.

After the eruption of Mount Pinatubo, thousands of refugees moved onto a site once occupied by Clark’s motor pool.

According to a 1999 Boston Globe investigation, many children became sick after drinking water from a well contaminated with mercury, gasoline and bacteria.

The Globe said pollution at Subic has not been studied as thoroughly at Clark, but toxic waste has been discovered in at least 10 places, and the U.S. is known to have pumped millions of gallons a day of untreated sewage into the bay. To complicate matters further, the Philippines’ own pollution standards are weak and unevenly enforced.

[Environmental engineer Patrick] Lynch said the United States did little to clean up the bases before they left, and took with them most records about their activities there. So far, the United States has not contributed to cleanup efforts as it has at former bases in Europe and Japan." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.117.191.18 (talk) 15:59, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Dividing up article

I really hated to pull out the scalpel but the large section on military units was starting to get out of hand, and it did not really do justice to the History of Clark Air Base article that we have. The section was running the article size up to 42 KB. I took the initiative and moved much of this to Military units of Clark Air Base, where hopefully it can thrive and focus on the details of the Air Force mission at Clark. Clark Air Base should remain more of an introductory article with basic information. -Rolypolyman (talk) 19:02, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

US Base Closure - 1991

The article points out the following:

"The base was later closed due to the refusal by the Philippine government to renew the lease on the base. After extensive damage from the Mount Pinatubo eruption, the Philippine government attempted to reopen base lease talks, but terms could not be reached and the lease was not extended."

This is not true. I was in the United States Marine Corps at the time of the closure of Clark, and in fact, it was my unit whose Captain took down the Stars and Stripes from Clark. That said, the reasons given in no-way reflect the real events that had transpired leading up to the closure of Clark AFB.

The Philippine Government had STAUNCHLY argued for a reconsideration of terms on the lease of the base which proved to be economically unviable to the U.S. Government. The Commandant of the Marine Corps, General A.M. Grey led the talks with the Philippine Government related to the continuation of the base's existence and maintenance of the lease. It was a known fleet-wide joke that one of his direct sayings to the Philippine representatives was not received well. General Grey said, "In 1945 we needed the Philippines as we needed Guam and Hawaii, because our freighters, our battleships, our frigates all required fuel oil to traverse the seas. We now have the potential for underway refueling, we have nuclear vessels that can stay underway for 2-years at a time without the need for refueling, and even when they do require it, we can do so without touching port. Because of this, it is you and your government's job to 'sell me' on why you value your lease so much, because in my mind, your tactical value is greatly decreased as your asking price has greatly increased." This statement in and of itself led to harsh feelings between the two representatives of each respective nation.

The negotiations between the two nations were NOT sudden, but endured for months, leading up to the closure of the Philippines as a place of U.S. Military activity, including Clark AFB.

Other notable sayings occurred during the later days, preceding the actual closure and flag-removal ceremony. Of which were insinuations that American influence had 'brought down and made dependent' the proud Filipino people to 'base clingers and social riders' to the bases and U.S. Military influence. The U.S. government rebuttal was that the lease terms asked by the Philippine government was too high, even in the end, and that the U.S. Military had brought billions of dollars into their nation as a result of military activities that would not otherwise been brought there, and that the financial benefits were not only noticed, but that they would regret their own lack of lease negotiation (as the Philippine Government refused to negotiate further, and was presumed to be holding Clark AFB as a ransom-point in the negotiations) once the U.S. fully extracted itself and its operations from that area of the world.

Within 2-months of the final removal of the Stars and Stripes (with U.S. Marines, of which I was one) going so far as to use industrial cutters to cut the fence posts surrounding the flight lines, and roll the fences up, packaging them to ship on frigates off the Island, the Philippine Government instituted lawsuits against the U.S. Government for violation of lease terms and as a rebuttal against actions deemed to have damaged their nation's economy. The U.S. Government DID settle with the Philippines as a result (for an amount far lower than was originally asked). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mountaindweller4 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering about this as well, especially since the entire section is effectively unreferenced. The news articles I was reading at the time emphasised Pinatubo's effects wrt Clark. I don't remember the lease being mentioned at all for Clark, only for Subic Bay. What I read now, here, seems to indicate that Pinatubo was a convenient excuse for closing Clark. Are the two being mixed up? Is there a reliable source for the exact timeline? Otherwise, an unsourced tag should be added or the questionable section removed entirely. (Also, the section needs much more detail from a knowledgeable source.) - Tenebris 22:33, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Cancer?

My parents both died of cancer. Their bodies were riddled with it. My Dad's was in his pancreas and prostate. My Mom's was in her lungs, breast and pancreas. I have a tumor/cyst that is being monitored every 6 months on my pancreas. We were stationed at CLARK AFB from 1968-1971. I have to wonder if I am doomed to the same fate. My Mom always swore "It was the drinking water" for causing their illnesses, including my brother's who died of complications from Diabetes Mellitus and MS. My question is, am I crazy? Or was there something in the drinking water? Am I doomed? Kimberlb (talk) 16:05, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

We lived at Clark from 1974 through 1977. We lived off base, but worked (and went to school) on base. Water off base was not potable, rather we carried containers on base to pumping stations to get potable water. My Dad lived to 79 and my mom to 80. Dad died of salivary gland cancer, which normally has a very high survival rate, and my mom died of a brain hemorrhage (stroke). My brother, sister and I are all in our late 50's to mid 60's and are healthy. I'm sure the water on base was monitored. People hate to not have reasons for bad things happening, but often those reasons are random or unknown. DoktorScience (talk) 02:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)