Talk:Ahmed al-Sharaa
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On 12 December 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Abu Mohammad al-Julani to Ahmed al-Sharaa. The result of the discussion was Moved. |
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Photo of Ahmed Al Sharaa as a teenager?
[edit]There is this photo of him as a teenager https://x.com/adil59516/status/1872402784257269872 https://x.com/adil59516/status/1872423082843046240 102.211.216.122 (talk) 07:03, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
- Already done 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 09:06, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
Nom de guerre
[edit]Please also add his native Arabic nom de guerre. Aminabzz (talk) 23:33, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Using the term Nom de Guerre, is somewhat misleading. The name is a Kunya (Arabic: كُنيَة) [[1]] and I haven't seen any allusion made to when he began using the Kunya, it may have been well before he began participation in Militant action. There should be a clarification drawn that Kunya are broadly used in Arab Societies as a sort of 'Nickname', and that it is not primarily used by Military.
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 December 2024
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His real date of birth is 29 October 1982, there was a mistake during registration per his claim, source. 2003:100:3700:AA00:6966:FF25:813A:4A9A (talk) 15:12, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- Already done 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 09:08, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
Inaccurate birth date.
[edit]As per a recent interview by Al-Arabiya news agency, Ahmad Al-Sharaa himself told Al-Arabiya reporter that he was born on 29th October, not July. I would have linked the youtube video source but youtube links are not allowed. Bakkouz (talk) 20:25, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- Edit done. Updated after watching the mentioned interview and reading the same info in a news article from An-Nahar.
- - RamiPat (talk) 22:07, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
On the "Attacks" section
[edit]The "Attacks" section is morphing into a list of every attack against civilians committed by the al-Nusra Front. I feel that level of detail is better suited for the group's article. The article for the Taliban's leader Hibatullah Akhundzada, for instance, does not list every attack committed by the Taliban. I'm looking for some more thoughts on this. Ghazi Malik (talk) 20:28, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
- it'd be fine if the sources talk about Sharaa directly or indirectly about Nursa's leadership, otherwise it veers into original research and synth problems. from a spot check of the sources being added, they did not talk about Sharaa or Nursa' leadership at all. that type of information does belong more with the pages associated with those groups rather than a BLP imho. otherwise it's against wikipedia policy, at least my interpretation of it. Cononsense (talk) 21:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
- Akhundzada isn't a good comparison, he is more of a "spiritual" leader in the Taliban. Jolani in al-Nusra was the political and military chief. His case is more like those of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Sirajuddin Haqqani, or Imad Mughniyeh, who were military chiefs of their respective movements, and all three have "attacks", "activities" or "allegations" sections, some of which are sourced back to texts that only mention the responsibility of the organization (and not the persons by name). Also the section "As leader of the Islamic State of Iraq" in Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's article lists a number of attacks, whose source texts speak of ISI but not always of Baghdadi by name. So, my opinion is that an "Attacks" section must be kept in place in Sharaa's article, but not be too big, not become the equivalent of the "War crimes" section of the Al-Nusra Front article (which is like 50 kbs large), but include only the most important attacks (Midan as the group's first, Feb '13 Damascus as the bloodiest, May '12 Damascus as the second bloodiest, and Zara'a, Hatla and Qalb Loze as distinctly sectarian massacres which caused condemnation from minorities). Also, the section should not become a place for the whitewashing of al-Nusra, as someone tried to do days ago when they presented the 2013 Syria and Lebanon attacks as supposedly targeting "Baathists and Hezbollah", while the very RS given spoke of civilians as comprising most of the victims.--BubbleBabis (talk) 23:55, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
- The same person added it three weeks ago, too. [2]. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:22, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. These poorly sourced contents have no place in a living person's biography. Moreover, most of it was original research, synthesis and speculations, since it did not mention the role of Shara'a and included attacks that were launched/claimed by other groups. Apart from that, it also played into POV propaganda, since Assadist fighters and Iran-sponsored Khomeinist terrorist groups were portrayed as "Shia civilians". Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 12:14, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- The RS on all the attacks clearly mentioned civilians as primary victims. The Daily Telegraph re:February 2013 Damascus bombings reported the majority of the 83 dead being "civilians and children" and the attack being condemned by the Syrian opposition, CNN re:May 2012 Damascus bombings mentioned civilians who gathered in the scene after the first blast being the primary victims of the second, and on the three Lebanon bombings mentioned, all sources say they targeted civilians and not "Hezbollah". Even Midan was a blind attack - and not at all some clean, "anti-police only" action as one revision tried to portray it - as 15 of the 26 victims were civilian and only 11 officers. The one almost explicitly doing propaganda (let alone synthesis) is the one adding bogus claims on the attacks as supposedly targeting "enemy militias", seemingly with the goal of trying to present Nusra's "struggle" from 2012-16 as a "clean" one.--BubbleBabis (talk) 16:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- P.S. the attacks were the primary reason the DoS designated Jolani as a global terrorist in 2013, so I think they should comprise a section in the article (as in Zarqawi, Haqqani, Mughniyeh, Baghdadi). It's not as if he was known for doing anything else back then except these attacks.--BubbleBabis (talk) 17:01, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
- The RS on all the attacks clearly mentioned civilians as primary victims. The Daily Telegraph re:February 2013 Damascus bombings reported the majority of the 83 dead being "civilians and children" and the attack being condemned by the Syrian opposition, CNN re:May 2012 Damascus bombings mentioned civilians who gathered in the scene after the first blast being the primary victims of the second, and on the three Lebanon bombings mentioned, all sources say they targeted civilians and not "Hezbollah". Even Midan was a blind attack - and not at all some clean, "anti-police only" action as one revision tried to portray it - as 15 of the 26 victims were civilian and only 11 officers. The one almost explicitly doing propaganda (let alone synthesis) is the one adding bogus claims on the attacks as supposedly targeting "enemy militias", seemingly with the goal of trying to present Nusra's "struggle" from 2012-16 as a "clean" one.--BubbleBabis (talk) 16:44, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 January 2025
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Clearer image. أحمد 04 (talk) 17:19, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
- Not done, for now... the image you suggested is blurry, the currently used one is not. I do not believe it is a clearer or better image - Adolphus79 (talk) 03:38, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 January 2025
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"His release coincided with the Syrian revolution, and he created the al-Nusra Front in 2012 with the support of al-Qaeda to take part in the Syrian civil war against the Ba'athist government of Bashar al-Assad." Incorrect informations. It was correct that he fought with Al-Qaeda in Iraq, and he was still with them after Al-Qaeda in Iraq merged with other insurgent groups forming the Islamic State in Iraq, and Aymen Zawahiri had a statement in which he himself said, "Islamic State is independent from Al-Qaeda, and is a step towards a Caliphate." Which means that Islamic State in Iraq is the one that helped Ahmed al-Sharaa to establish Jabhat Nusra, under the orders of Al-Baghdadi. Audio excerpts from Ahmed Al-Sharaa himself confirmed that Ahmed Al-Sharaa had bay'ah (pledge of allegiance) to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, but it was until the announcement of ISIS that he changed his bay'ah from Al-Baghdadi to Aymen al Zawahiri, making Nusra part of AQ instead of IS. So change "with the help of Al-Qaeda" to "with the help of Islamic State in Iraq". 2001:D08:102B:36D8:1:1:196C:CA23 (talk) 07:54, 24 January 2025 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 09:11, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
President
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He is now officially President of the transitional period over just the De Facto Leader Mayouhm (talk) 19:03, 29 January 2025 (UTC)
Done.
He has a wife
[edit]Why isn't his wife Latifa al-Sharaa listed in the sidebar that has his father and brother listed? Queens Historian (talk) 02:55, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
Appointed by whom?
[edit]Both the Wikipedia "In The News" box and this article refer to him as being "appointed" as president. Can we have some explanation, with a source, of what body appointed him and what mechanism was used to do so? --Jfruh (talk) 04:16, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
Suggested edit for the lead
[edit]I the lead, the phrase As the emir of Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS)
, I find it awkward to have 'emir' just linked. For me, it breaks the flow of a very good lead. If the phrase kept the blue-link, but added , commander, so that phrase would read As the emir, commander, of Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS)
.
I admit I've never been nearer to Syria than Iran or Jordan, but I think immediately showing 'emir' is also a current title is educational for a broad audience. Just a suggestion. — Neonorange (talk to Phil) (he, they) 09:12, 31 January 2025 (UTC) —
Typo in the second paragraph of subsection "Family background"
[edit]This sentence about the guys father starts with an additional capitalized H: "H Hussein Al-Sharaa was born [...] in the region." Could somebody with editing access please fix this typo? ~~ Bubelbaps (talk) 10:53, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 January 2025
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Change (He disagreed with many of his father's ideas but agreed with him about Palestine, which influenced him.)
to ("Ahmed al-Sharaa is suspected to have differed from his father on some issues but shared his views on Palestine.") Hans Christianson1 (talk) 20:50, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
Which photo to use?
[edit]We have two usable photos of al-Sharaa to put in the infobox. The one on the left is less recent and, in my view, more unflattering. The one on the right is more recent.
꧁Zanahary꧂ 19:30, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- right image is the better choice
tho its of lower qualitynvm both are of shit quality 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 06:05, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
Ahmed al-Sharaa
[edit]Hello, Abo Yemen. I think the Kunya doesn't mention any major RS but instead refers to a nom de guerre. See above: AP,France24, FDD HurricaneEdgar 08:54, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
- @HurricaneEdgar a kunya is a type of "nom de guerre"s that is used in Arab (and sometimes Islamic) countries. It is more of a Wikipedia:SKYISBLUE situation here tbh. I'll move this discussion to the article's talk to get more opinions on this 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 09:01, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
- Reliable sources describe Abu Mohammad al-Julani as a nom de guerre because it is a pseudonym adopted by al-Sharaa for use in a military conflict. It is not a kunya in the traditional sense. (Does al-Sharaa have a son named Mohammad?) Furthermore, the second part of the nom de guerre (al-Julani) is a nisba, not a kunya. Khiikiat (talk) 13:23, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
It is not a kunya in the traditional sense. (Does al-Sharaa have a son named Mohammad?) Furthermore, the second part of the nom de guerre (al-Julani) is a nisba, not a kunya.
From the kunya article:Men who do not yet have a child are often addressed by a made-up kunya, most often from a popular or notable figure in Muslim or Arabian History.
𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:55, 2 February 2025 (UTC)- I agree that Abu Mohammad is
a made-up kunya
. It is the first part of a made-up name that al-Sharaa used during a military conflict. A made-up name used during a military conflict is a nom de guerre. Khiikiat (talk) 18:28, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
- I agree that Abu Mohammad is
- Reliable sources describe Abu Mohammad al-Julani as a nom de guerre because it is a pseudonym adopted by al-Sharaa for use in a military conflict. It is not a kunya in the traditional sense. (Does al-Sharaa have a son named Mohammad?) Furthermore, the second part of the nom de guerre (al-Julani) is a nisba, not a kunya. Khiikiat (talk) 13:23, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
Should we add a Template:Ahmed al-Sharaa series, similar to the series for other presidents like Bashar al-Assad? I made a WP:BOLD edit, but since the article is part of a contentious topic, I’ve stated it for discussion. HurricaneEdgar 15:00, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
- Yeah seems like a normal thing to do (I like how you made it look btw) 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 18:31, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
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