Talk:Adin Steinsaltz

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Steinsaltz a Palestinian?

It seems to me that we should categorize all those born in the British Mandate of Palestine as "Palestinian," even if they are Jewish, Druze, Bahai, Christian, etc. Perhaps there should even be a subcategory called "Palestinian rabbis," to which Steinsaltz would belong. This should be something everyone can agree about, even, no? --Leifern 00:48, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

NO. hasofer 09:27, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

definitely, no!!! Tio 10:02, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

In fact, Jews born in Mandatory Palestine were classified as "Palestinians", along with the other inhabitants of the territory. Today's Jerusalem Post newspaper was founded in 1932 as "The Palestine Post", and to this day the paper's owning corporation is known as Palestine Post, Ltd., (see About Us on the JPost website.) As with many other things, Jewish identity has been suborned by foreigners, so that the Arabs took over the name of "Palestinian" from the Jews in the area. The horrified reactions seen above reflect the lack of historical perspective on the problem.

-- Eliyahu S ^Talk 06:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Currently Palestine has no sovreignty over the area Rav. Steinsaltz lives, so this kind of thing wouldn't seem to make any sense. You'd be making a political statement, and there is no reason to make such a statement for an article of this type (also goes against NPOV policy)130.91.98.31 02:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC).

References

None them are used in references to anything. The section should be renamed to "Works." Anyone agree? ems (not to be confused with the nonexistant pre-dating account by the same name) 22:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Photo

Can we get photos of Rebbi Adin and of his Talmud? 203.214.153.235 17:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Criticism of Rabbi Steinsaltz

I would appreciate any support for Rabbi Steinsaltz at this page Talk:Modern_attempts_to_revive_the_Sanhedrin#Objection to Rabbi Steinsalz --Historian2 08:54, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The discussion was closed and archived. See Talk:Modern_attempts_to_revive_the_Sanhedrin/Archive_2#Objection to Rabbi Steinsalz.

-- Eliyahu S ^Talk 06:44, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I have talked to Steinsaltz. He doesn't claim to have semicha yet. He claims that he is attempting to re-establish it.

Criticism of Steinsaltz talmud. Why not mention of the ashkenazi (e.g. shach) controversy? Putiing someone who has agendas against orthodoxy as criticism is very misleading.

Fair use rationale for Image:Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Lead

Hello, I don't think that Steinsaltz personally translated the Talmud into all the languages mentioned in the lead. As far as I know, his translation is the one into modern Hebrew, and possibly into English. Please check, thanks, Ajnem (talk) 11:52, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't know that for a fact, but I thought the same myself. The other languages editions are published by his organization, but probably not edited by rabbi Steinsaltz himself. Debresser (talk) 14:25, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Criticisms of Jewish Traditions: Kabbalah controversy. Support by Controversial Figures

Steinzals considers the Kabbalists (those who study the ancient Jewish spiritual method Kabbalah) mentally ill people. In Russia, he has made numerous public speeches and comments to the media, throwing his authority in Jewish tradition and status of a Rav (teacher) in support of his views on Kabbalah. Stenizals has also published a book, where he denigrated and vilified the modern Kabbalists (i.e. those who continue the ancient tradition of Kabbalah studies, such as Michael Laitman, a successor of Rav Baruch Ashlag, elder son and premier disciple of the Sulam Commentary to Zohar author Rav Baal haSulam). Vilifying the Kabbalah, he uses famous quotations saying that one needs to attain 40 years of age and be familiar with Jewish tradition (and also be male), whereas direct instructions to let Kabbalah be studies for all, including women and youths, by Kabbalah figures as influential as Baal haSulam, ARI, Rav Cook, RAMBAM, Gaon of Vilno, Baal Shem Tov and many others get conveniently ignored.

He repeatedly accused modern Kabbalah teachers of 'selling the ancient wisdom for 10 kopeks (cents) without any pre-requisites' and called to skeptical attitude towards their ability to teach

At the same time, Steinzalts positions himself as educator and promoter of Jewish tradition. The Jewish tradition, to Steinzals, is Talmudic studies and adherence to kosher laws, among other matters. Despite close to zero influence on modern era Jewish people among whom he claims to promote Judaism, Steninzals received acclaim from many public Jewish figures, such as media commentators or community leaders. At the same time, considering the huge rate of conversions, mixed marriages and disconnections from the Jewish communities by modern Jewish people, this approach seems to be lacking in effectiveness. On the other side, Kabbalah teachers has succeeded not only in attracting Jewish people to tradition and study of Kabbalah, they managed to attract non-Jewish people to same, which in Jewish history is unprecedented.

Adin Steinzaltz usually ignores public demand for Kabbalah information, pretending that no way to study Kabbalah exists, other than to those following the Jewish tradition as he understands it, with perseverance and zeal. Yet it is unclear where and from whom he studied Kabbalah himself, to add basis for his authority claims in the field of Kabbalah studies (Talmud is not usually considered Kabbalah text). Irrespectively of whether Steinzalts claims of being a Kabbalah expert seem legitimate to himself and those who believe him, the modern Kabbalah lineage comes from Baal haSulam, the Ladder Commentary to Zohar author and Adin Steinzalts did not study from anyone coming from this lineage. Kabbalah teachers however do not argue with Steinzalts, saying that people who claim to be expert in Kabbalah are many and it is a job of the prospective student to find a legitimate and suitable teacher, encouraging spiritual search and learning from own mistakes.

Comments, sources request, rephrasings attempts, syntax corrections are welcome. Deletions are not welcome. DIscuss here before edit (except grammar). Yuri Kozharov —Preceding undated comment added 18:09, 16 March 2012 (UTC).

Yuri, please read the official policy Wikipedia:Ownership of articles. You are not welcome to say, "Deletions are not welcome." — Particularly when you enter a new section that is almost unsourced. As it says on every edit page, "If you do not want your writing to be edited, … then do not submit it here." —teb728 t c 06:51, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

If you claim any section is POV, substantiate. (Its not me, its Adin Steinzaltz). Help with sources welcome: Google. OK, I will do it myself, but place a tag, deletions are not welcome as I said. Yuri Kozharov — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yuri Kozharov (talk • contribs) 07:42, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Beside that lack of sourcing, your statement that “…this approach seems to be lacking in effectiveness” and your characterization that Steinzalts is "pretending" is blatantly non-neutral in violation of the official policy Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. I have removed the two paragraphs where these occurred. Please retract your statement that "deletions are not welcome". —teb728 t c 08:02, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

This is actually a draft. I edited other articles, so couldn't devote time to Steinzalts. I consider making him world famous for the statements he did. He does not claim to be criticizing my Rav, but since my Rav is the world's most known Kabbalah teaching, belittling him and accusing him of petty character defects such as greed is beyond any idea of a civilized behavior.

But lets get back to your input. I would agree that the quotations in question may read like POV, yet I suggest considering the reality: the huge rate of conversions, mixed marriages, abandoning tradition and communities among Jewish people is on the rise, we read on this issue again and again in Jewish media. So, 'making the Talmud available to all Jews' approach of which Steinzalts is a proponent seem to be lacking in effectiveness indeed. As well as many other, alternative approaches, wouldn't you agree? There is indeed such a problem as growing alienation from tradition, community and the very Jewish people, especially among youths.

As far as Steinzalts is 'pretending' to promote his idea that no easy way to study Kabbalah exists: this is also actually true. Steinzalts repeatedly, in interviews and his own publications, claimed that Kabbalah is such complicated a subject that the student must be essentially, a saint. Needless to say, be Jewish, be of 40 years old and of course, be a man. Then, mystery surrounds his approach towards choosing a teacher, i.e. choosing the proper Rav. While Kabbalah teachings descent thru a lineage of master-disciple and as of 1947 in Israel there were only two, Steinzalts adds colossal fog and hints, not even say explicitly, that the teacher must be knowledgeable in the, essentially, Talmud. We know the one knowledgeable in Talmud the most, it is Stenizalts himself. This is just ridiculous.

Truth is Steinzalts did not study Kabbalah from anyone and cannot say a word on Kabbalah besides the very word 'Kabbalah', which he misinterprets as zealous adherence to Talmud and kosher.

At the same time, if anyone wants to learn Kabbalah, he or she can just launch the browser and type kab.tv. Its available to anyone and also free. 3:00-6:00 Israel Time, and by the way, you are welcome too.

Now tell me, where in my quotations you find POV? I agree to rephrase, but the essence must remain the same. What is said is what is said. No one made him made those comments and write those books.

I didn't understand why you asked to retract statement that 'deletions are not welcome'. You may delete as per Wikipedia policies, I am just not encouraging deletion. I am myself not a deletionist, I am more for creation and improvement. Sadly, there are people bent on destroying other people's works here (I don't mean you).

Opinions? Yuri Kozharov] —Preceding undated comment added 00:26, 18 March 2012 (UTC).

As you say, you are trying to make Steinsaltz world famous (in a negative way). And elsewhere I have observed that you are trying to make your Rav world famous in a positive way. But neither is what Wikipedia is for; Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a “soap box.” So Wikipedia has policies to prevent it from being used as a soap box:

• First of all there is a policy that says explicitly, “Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion.”
• Also, all Wikipedia content must be verifiable by citations to published reliable sources. The citations don’t always have to provided, but they must be provided when someone might object (as is always the case when you are soap-boxing).
• The sources should be from secondary sources. In particular if you want to talk about what Steinsaltz thinks about Kabbalah, you need an analysis from reliable secondary source(s). You can’t quote Steinsaltz directly to show what he thinks, for your interpretation of the meaning of the quote would also require a source (making the quote itself redundant).
• The “No original research” policy means that you are not allowed to present your opinions (like your belief that Steinsaltz pretends something) or personal knowledge (like your knowledge of Unity Movement) in an article, nor are you allowed to combine sourced facts into a new synthesis.
• Articles must be written from a neutral point of view; so that if there is more than one significant sourced view then both are presented, but undue weight is not given to a minority viewpoint.
• In a biography of a living person (like Steinsaltz) all these policies are enforced even more rigorously than in other articles—especially with regard to presentation of negative information.

I hope this helps you understand. —teb728 t c 08:49, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

In fact, Steinzalts is already worlds famous in a negative way, the Wikipedia just should reflect this fact and I encourage everyone to use Google and educate yourself on Adin Stainsalts' views, or I will do it myself with adding proper quotes and references to the article, which is in conformity with all WIkipedia policies with which you are trying to 'help me understand', thanks.

As to my Rav, Michael Laitman, whose pages get repeatedly deleted by less than knowledgeable people on Wikipedia, he is world famous already, although I must admit may not be familiar to a wider auditory. In other words, many notable public people and members of scientific community, including Presidents and Nobel Prize laureates, do know my Rav. As to regular Joes in America, maybe they deserve this Wikipedia ignorant moderators censorships? I don't know, the US has many internal plagues, could be one of them... Yuri Kozharov —Preceding undated comment added 12:14, 18 March 2012 (UTC).

I think that Steinsaltz indeed is world famous. But not in a negative way. And I'd like to notice that in this respect he is quite the opposite of Laitman. Who is scorned by almost everybody. Debresser (talk) 16:04, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

References

Ban on books

I restored the summary of the ban as per the discussion on the Elazar Shach talk page (http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Elazar_Shach#Adin_Steinsaltz). Please respond on the talk page there if you have any objections.Yonoson3 (talk) 00:50, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

The sources you claim you relied on do NOT say what you say they do and looking at how many times you do this on the same page you obviously know it yourself. You break many of the rules and specialy when you claim Rav Waldenberg banned Rav Steinsaltz which is a slander and also violates BLP. The source of the Bomberg book DOES say that Rav Feinstein approved of the Steinsaltz talmud but you did not see that. Very strange. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.146.213.16 (talk) 16:55, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

The sources DO say what the edit claims, and I have checked this myself. If the edit is wrong for any specific rabbi, you can just remove his name from the list. But even in that case, I recommend you to discuss first. You might have missed something. Debresser (talk) 17:12, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

And the name of the Rav Waldenberg is also on a ban, see source 2. Debresser (talk) 17:38, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Views on child abuse

Ref removed material. I think that this is as notable as the Rabbi's views on inter faith dialogue, which is quoted here. Perhaps it could go under the Biography header? Here are a couple of other places where it is referred to. http://www.feujn.org/spip.php?article582 https://twitter.com/jcwatch?lang=en https://coffeeshoprabbi.com/tag/mishpatim/

Writing in The Jewish Week (NY) Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz claimed that there were 'objective reasons' why child abuse quite often happened in religious institutions, stating that 'Children are taught and trained to be obedient and to accept their elders as authorities – which makes it so much more difficult for them to resist abuse or to report it. Unfortunately there is no sex education in some of the schools; nor is the subject discussed in some homes.'

The Rabbi claimed that under Jewish law child molestation may deserve capital punishment, and that offenders may face the punishment of karet (untimely death by the hands of the Almighty). He condemned cover ups in the orthodox community, and called for perpetrators not only to be dismissed from their employment, but also to punished.

Happy to take advice.Maureendepresident (talk) 21:54, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

References

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Adin Steinsaltz/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

B-Class. Pretty good content, but the presentation is a mess. The very first sentence has grammar problems, spelling errors abound etc. Vonfraginoff 09:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 10:54, 19 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 06:43, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

It is still a B-class member of WikiProject Biography. Debresser (talk) 18:27, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Criticism and controversy sections

Perhaps it would make sense to have one Criticism or Criticism and controversies section instead of two? Debresser (talk) 18:07, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

I agree, valid point. How about a controversy section, with two subsections - Academic criticism and Reception in the Haredi community? High Leader (talk) 23:19, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Okay. Debresser (talk) 05:32, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

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Birthday

His birthday is today on the Jewish Calendar 3rd of Av. Where does this get entered? Saxophonemn (talk) 14:11, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Source of quote

I liked one of Rav Steinsaltz's quotes:

"I never thought that spreading ignorance has any advantage, except for those who are in a position of power and want to deprive others of their rights and spread ignorance in order to keep them underlings."

so much that I ran it down. (To a published source; the original quote is from a 2004 article in the Australian Jewish News; I'm working on that one.)

But I cannot figure out how to cite to an article in a book. (I was using the citation template for "Book"; I don't have time to learn how to do a citation by hand.)

In APA format, the citation is:

Jeffrey A. Summit. (2016). Technology and the transmission of oral tradition in the contemporary Jewish community. In J. Engelhardt & P. V. Bohlman (Eds.), Resounding transcendence: transitions in music, ritual, and religion (pp. 147–162). New York, NY: Oxford University Press.

The quotation is on p. 149.

Could someone please help a sibling Wikipedian out?

THANKS!

MitchS (talk) 21:58, 2 February 2019 (UTC)