This article is within the scope of WikiProject Melanesia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Melanesia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MelanesiaWikipedia:WikiProject MelanesiaTemplate:WikiProject MelanesiaMelanesia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Law Enforcement. Please Join, Create, and Assess.Law EnforcementWikipedia:WikiProject Law EnforcementTemplate:WikiProject Law EnforcementLaw enforcement articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Disaster managementWikipedia:WikiProject Disaster managementTemplate:WikiProject Disaster managementDisaster management articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
It is requested that an image or photograph of 2024 New Caledonia unrest be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
Wikipedians in the following regions may be able to help:
Would someone be kind enough to tell me why is it that Azerbaijan and Turkey whose only proof of involvement are allegations by French government officials are included in the infobox? I thought that per the discussion in the Ukraina-Russia War infobox countries were only to be added if they were fighting alongside the main actors? Why the double standards here? There's no Azerbaijani/Turkish soldiers in New Caledonia and no actual proof of direct involvement in the protests.
The French Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin and French radio station Europe 1 have made allegations about Azerbaijan and Turkey covertly supporting the Kanak separatists. These allegations were covered in a EuroNews and Middle East Eye report. So far the allegations have come from French political figures and media. The Azeri and Turkish governments have denied responsibility. Hope this answers your question. Andykatib (talk) 05:28, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All these French allegations of foreign involvement make it seem like it was entirely engineered from abroad, while there is only speculative indication that it could be the case. The French government would prefer people to focus on this, in order to neglect the inequality and power dynamic between the ethnic groups. Azerbaijan gave a platform to independence activists in Baku, but so far there is no conclusive evidence that they bought every single Kanak to rise up whereas their discontent has been documented since the French stepped foot on their archipelago.
An IP up here made a valid point, that on the page Russo-Ukrainian War there isn't (and I don't recall ever seeing) a list of the – many – actual backers of Ukraine, who gave billions upon billions of aid, munitions, military advisers. Or Israel–Hamas war ; despite the 1 billion dollar in military aid recently given by America to Israel. There are absolutely double standards on Wikipedia when it comes to non-Western sides of a conflict.--Shoshin000 (talk) 08:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have revertedan edit by @Kasperquickly: listing China and Russia as participants in the infobox. The French language source, when Google translated, speculates about Chinese and Russian involvement in light of their geopolitical interests and antagonism with France. Unless credible sources about Chinese and Russian involvement come up, I think we should avoid speculation. Andykatib (talk) 04:04, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both countries are already mentioned in the actual body of the article. With sources. One does not need to cite anything at all for inclusion into the infobox, if the same information is already mentioned somewhere in the body of the article where it is sourced
@Kasperquickly:, those sources for China and Russia so not explicitly state that the two countries are supporting the pro-independence camp. The French language source merely speculates about their involvement. The Columbia University source only talks about Russian active measures up to 2021. Until we have actual statements from Russia and China supporting the pro-independence camp, we should exercise caution and avoid doing original research since that it is not the purpose of Wikipedia. Speculation about Russian and Chinese involvement should go in the alleged foreign interference section. Let's avoid violating the 3 revert rule. Thanks. Andykatib (talk) 02:18, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am going to remove 'supported by' Azerbaijan and Armenia from the infobox. I understand there is a separate discussion of whether this should be discussed within the article body, but nobody seems to have presented a clear argument for why they are included in the infobox when it is a) extremely spurious whether these countries have been involved at all and b) the 'support' they are alleged to have given is far below the level of support or involvement of other actors not included in analogous situations (the absence of arms suppliers and political supporters on the Israel-Hamas War and Russia-Ukraine War pages have already been noted; I also looked through the pages of the various Colour Revolutions and we aren't mentioning alleged support in those infoboxes, nor in the ongoing Myanmar Civil War page or really any analogous protest/civil conflict page). I think it may be worth discussing allegations of foreign involvement in the page, but it certainly does not belong in the infobox. GeorgmentO (talk) 03:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While we're on this, I'm not sure its appropriate to list the melanesian Spearhead Group in the infobox. They've issued a statement saying they support the decolonisation process and oppose violence. They're not a participant, or a funder, or a "backer" in a conflict sense.--IdiotSavant (talk) 04:12, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They should just be removed. It seems misleading to even have FLNKS there, the article states their official position was to not have riots, yet the infobox says they were a party to the riots. Should general riots have "Parties" at all? CMD (talk) 04:59, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the MSG so far. We'll see if anyone objects. I also note that the "supported by" parameter is deprecated, so we probably shouldn't be using it. Also, Template:Infobox civil conflict recommends against long participant lists, and suggests "only the three or four major groups on each side of the conflict, and to describe the rest in the body of the article". So it may be better simply to say "pro-independence protestors" vs GIGN and Mobile Gendarmerie, and skip the long lists of political parties. How do people feel about this? -- IdiotSavant (talk) 00:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That quotes an FLNKS spokesperson describing the riots, and notes that "The pro-independence FLNKS had called for protesters to remove roadblocks". So I wouldn't regard that as a source for "participating". IdiotSavant (talk) 05:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Reuters source does not say that, it says the protests are run by the "Field Action Coordination Cell (CCAT)". All FLNKS does in that source is provide commentary. CMD (talk) 08:27, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think so, yes. And I've just removed Australia as a government "supporter", since the source cited is about them preparing to evacuate their civilians, not intervene militarily. IdiotSavant (talk) 11:01, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I reverted the bold addition of the Rassemblement National's logo in the "counterprotestors" part of the infobox. We don't add one flag for one party and leave the rest without their logos, as it makes it look like we're advertising for that party. In my opinion all of this long list of parties should be removed as per the above. In an effort to see whether there is anything worth keeping here, I've added "citation needed" tags for all the parties (rather than simply delete them pending proper sourcing). In 48 hours, we can go through and delete all those for which no references have been provided. If someone prefers to just delete the unsourced claims that's fine with me too. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥08:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do not have access to the full Le Monde article (I canceled my subscription recently.) What is publicly visible suggests that the European Court statement was on 11 January 2005, before the Constitutional amendment in 2007. Also can we really say that Jacques Chirac amended the constitution all by himself @Aréat:?
