Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pipe organ/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Peer review of Bath Abbey

Would very much like some feedback on this, having completed a total rewrite, before going to WP:GA about it.--Vox Humana 8' 23:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks pretty good to me... you may need some more citations, but the GA reviewers are probably not so concerned with this. There seem to be a lot of red links, too... I'm not sure if those count against you or not. —Cor anglais 16 17:19, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Embedding media files

I've uploaded some recordings of my playing to Wikimedia Commons for use in the articles on Scheidemann and Frescobaldi. Currently the articles contain a link to the file page on the Commons; however, I would like to make the works playable directly from the page itself. Can someone please leave a note on my talk page explaining how to do this? Random Pipings (talk) 04:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)Random Pipings

Nevermind! I figured it out - didn't realize the [[Image:]] tag worked for Wikimedia files as well! Random Pipings (talk) 04:34, 23 January 2008 (UTC) Random Pipings

Article on registration

I've started an article on registration - is this already covered under another article? Random Pipings (talk) 21:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC) Random Pipings

I don't remember seeing one. That could be a really interesting article. The art of registration has seen so many changes over the centuries, and it is quite important to the organ, its construction, and its music. I'm surprised an article hasn't been written yet. I'm looking forward to reading it! --W0lfie (talk) 14:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Note, folks, that Registration (organ) has been nominated for deletion. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Registration (organ). —Cor anglais 16 05:09, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

List of French organists

Hello, is it OK with everyone if I move List of French organists to French organ school? I created the article German organ schools a while ago, and thought it would be nice to have an article for the French school as well, with a list of composers currently available at List of French organists, and a list of standard forms (duo, recit, etc.) as well. "List of French organists" is kind of misleading, too, since it doesn't actually list French organists like Olivier Latry, as most people would expect from the title. If anyone has any objections or suggestions, I'd be glad to discuss any. Jashiin (talk) 15:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Article moved, all links and redirects fixed. Jashiin (talk) 14:22, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Ton Koopman, youtube connection erased, why?

Hello, a few weeks ago i added a paragraph with connection to media, youtube, showing Ton directing his orchestra (Bach Cantata 10). I would like to know why somebody erased it. Thank you, Adrian —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrian Comollo (talk • contribs) 16:39, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

many youTube clips are psoted in violation of copyright so links are often deleted on sight. David Underdown (talk) 16:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

J. W. Walker & Sons Ltd

This article was created and needs a lot of work - I feel a ground-up rewrite coming on. For now, though, can we try wikifying the existing article where necessary and removing POV stuff, perhaps add a few appropriate images. Thanks!--Vox Humana 8' 17:53, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Category:English classical organists

The related Category:English classical organists has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for Discussion page.

Creating a new article about a particular organ

Hello,

I would like to create an article about the Kotzschmar Organ, which is located in Portland, Maine. Can anyone give me any guidance on how to start, such as what infobox to use, what types of information should be included, what categories to put the article in, etc.?

Thanks,

—BMRR (talk) 02:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi… we haven't put any infoboxes together yet, but that's a great idea! Get a picture or two if at all possible. Certainly include the builder's name, the history of the instrument (if/when it was renovated/restored), any well-known organists who have played it: basically, tell readers why it is a notable instrument. I wouldn't include a complete stoplist per WP:INDISCRIMINATE, but any unusual or unique stops would be worth including. Place it into Category:Pipe organs and flag the talk page with {{PipeOrgan-project-page}}. Hope this helps, and thanks for contributing! —Cor anglais 16 02:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Further to Cor anglais 16's comments, to help establish notability and context, you might like to consider placing details about the organ 'within' an article about the location (Portland City Hall Auditorium / Merrill Auditorium) which is only served by an external link within the Portland, Maine article. If you believe you have enough material to make the organ and its history notable in its own right, consider basing it on Wanamaker Organ (which is by no means up to scratch, but is a good place to start. Feel free to ask for more help or information - we look forward to finding out more about it. –MDCollins (talk) 10:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Cor anglais 16 and MDCollins, thanks so much for your replies. I don't think I'll have any problems establishing notability: the Kotzschmar Organ is one of only a handful of "municipal organs" still in existence in the world, not to mention that it is one of the largest pipe organs in New England (and the largest in Maine). I know of at least two books written about it, so I'll grab those from the library ASAP and start putting something together.

If you who would like to know more about it right away, check out the Friends of the Kotzschmar Organ web site at www.foko.org/. It really is an amazing instrument.

Thanks again,
—BMRR (talk) 16:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I already did :-). Looks good! –MDCollins (talk) 23:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi again folks,

My favorite pipe organ now has its own Wikipedia article! It's just a stub at the moment but I'll be adding more to it as time permits.

Kotzschmar Memorial Organ

Thanks for your help and suggestions!

—BMRR (talk) 00:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup

Currently, 580 articles are assigned to this project, of which 89, or 15.3%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place the following template on your project page:

{{User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription|banner=PipeOrgan-project-page}}

If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 17:42, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea - i've placed the banner on our project page. I know this WP has been a bit slack lately (I've been too busy to do much in general, I know). Maybe this will pick the pace up. And lets get Pipe organ finished!! –MDCollins (talk) 22:44, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Featured article review

I just nominated Pipe organ for featured article status for the second time. Here is the most recent nomination. The first (archived) nomination is available here. —Cor anglais 16 23:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Good work. I've had a go at addressing the image issues, and had a scan through making some other corrections, removing wordiness etc, tidying some references/fixing external links etc that will probably come up. I've made some comments of things that need doing - the Romantic development section needs a "lovely" reference (sorry, couldn't help the pun), and the red links need creating/removing. While tidying the images, I removed the information about the builder/artist of painting into the reference, so hope nobody minds. Some of the pics+captions just got a bit too long for my liking. Think I need to sleep now. –MDCollins (talk) 03:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I've made some further comments at Talk:Pipe organ. Are there any more of you out there who can help? –MDCollins (talk) 00:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Organ Reform Movement

I have just written up a stub on the Organ Reform Movement, I tried to give a fairly general summarization of it, but as it stands, it focuses only on the United States and is very broad, and non-specific. If others with more knowledge on the subject would please pitch in, I would appreciate it.Don (talk) 02:48, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest moving the stub to Orgelbewegung and adding redirects from Organ Reform movement, organ reform movement and other capitalizations. I've found blue links for Flentrop and Baroque (music). Sparafucil (talk) 01:22, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) which I think may apply here. I don't know much about the history of the movement, and so I suppose I may not actively look for the article, but if I were, I'm not sure I would find orgelbewegung. I know redirects will be in place, but... Which is the most common term across the US/Europe? Is it mainly a German/US thing (the English not having much of a baroque tradition anyway?)

I guess I would assume it would come under the auspices of the Authentic-performance styles (Historically-informed) or however you term it. Could that be cross-referenced in there somewhere?–MDCollins (talk) 09:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

That'a a very good idea about linking to Historically informed performance, and you may have a point about prefering an English term. A problem is that there's more than one: Grove has redirects (to "organ") for both "Organ revival movement" and Orgelbewegung, the latter of which has a fair amount of currency among anglophone organists, most of whom I would guess also prefer Orgelbüchlein to "Little Organ Book" (which makes me think of the English edition of Flor Peeters' tutor instead of Bach's). But "organ reform movement" draws a blank, though I'm sure a print reference could be dug up somewhere else...

btw, who are you? :-) Sparafucil (talk) 05:24, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry - it was me again!–MDCollins (talk) 09:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

pronunciation

While IPA transcriptions (as at Saint-Saëns could resolve the "beau-L-mahn" vs. "Böllmann" question and start to get rid of Guilmant with a soft "g", it would be really nice if a native francophone could be found to make sound files of the names at Category:French classical organists! Sparafucil (talk) 01:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Organist

I think I am right in thinking that most classical organist biographies point to Organist in the lead. I was wondering about the quality of the article, and whether pointing to [[Pipe organ|organist]] would be more appropriate. In any case, Pipe organ might also say that an "organ player" is an "organist", and possibly the various titles could be integrated there.

I am heavily involved with WP:CRICKET, and there we changed cricketer into a disambig page, and instead refer to "Donald Bradman is a [[cricket]]er.

What do you all think - is a link from J.S. Bach or Carlo Curley to organist beneficial? I would propose that a link to pipe organ is probably more useful. In fact, having checked my guessed links above, I find that Bach has a link to [[Organ (music)|organist]] (opening another can of worms). Confused? Agree that a better guideline can be agreed upon?

–MDCollins (talk) 01:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Pipe organ in list of articles scheduled for wikipedia DVD release.

For more information, see the message here (we may get notified in due course anyway).

Basically, a stable version of the article needs to be found, and cleaned up etc, and then a notification send to the selection team. More information is above anyway.–MDCollins (talk) 23:36, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

DNB article on John Blow

Today John Blow is the featured biography at DNB. You can get this detailed article here: http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/1.html. I am sure it will help anyone interested in early English musicians expand this article. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 13:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Paul Callaway

Just created this new article about the former organist and choirmaster of the Washington National Cathedral — it appeared on today's Main Page as a WP:DYK.  JGHowes  ^talk 03:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Use of 'foot' in organ pipes

moved from Lightmouse talk page: begin
Hi, you're probably not aware, but when talking about organs 16 ft is really the name of a particular class of pipes, rather than being a literal measurement, so it probably doesn't make much sense to doing a conversion. It does refer to the nominal length of the longest pipe that's used in a stop, but for various complicated reasons, the pipes are very rarely literally that length. David Underdown (talk) 16:17, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I didn't know that. Amazing. Is there a Wikipedia article that explains it? That is ideal encyclopedia fodder. Lightmouse (talk) 16:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have thought to link to Organ stop. I'm not actually an organist myself, so I might not have got it absolutely right, it may be worth checking this over with the folks at the Organ project. David Underdown (talk) 16:26, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

The explanation at Organ stop says the length is the "approximate length of the longest pipe in that rank". So that sounds unremarkable to me. I bet anyone that knows how long a foot is, will probably think of '16 ft' in a Wikipedia article as meaning 16 times as long. So this needs clearing up, would you mind posting at the relevant project page and I will watch your contributions and join the discussion. Lightmouse (talk) 16:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

User:Cor anglais 16 and User:Jashiin are good on this, and I think it was his article on the organ (was an FAC a while ago) that could do with a more detailed explanation of the footage issue. For an open stop (open at the top of the pipe, not closed so the sound waves double back and halve their frequency—at an octave lower) which is a flue (i.e., without vibrating reed to screw up the acoustical relationship between pipe-length and pitch, it's convenient that the lowest pipe at the bottom note on the keyboard/pedalboard is 8 ft long at piano pitch (concert pitch), since it's neatly divisible (4, 2, 1). The history of this coincidence (cf the choice of the absolute length of the foot) is beyond me. It should not be converted to a metric unit. "Foot" has related usages in music theory (e.g., a 16-foot effect). Tony (talk) 13:05, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I will contact those two users and see if Wikipedia can have a reference on this. Lightmouse (talk) 13:23, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
moved from Lightmouse talk page: end

I tried to find a Wikipedia article that would explain this. Can anyone give me a reference? Lightmouse (talk) 13:32, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi - the closest I can find are organ stop#Pitch and length and the spin off paragraph at organ pipe (neither of which is properly referenced, but is correct). These do not need conversions. Organ pipes are always labelled by foot, regardless of location. You will never hear an organist referring to a 2.4m stop! This maybe because the organ tradition is essentially Western Classical/European and has spread from there. David is correct in that they are nominally labelled as being 8 foot/16 foot etc, without real assertion to the physical properties of the pipe, merely the audible frequencies they produce. As Tony said, 8 foot is concert pitch (or that of the piano). When playing a 16 foot stop, the note sounds one octave lower than the key played. 4 foot is an octave higher etc. While the longest pipe of an 8 foot open stop will be approximately 8 feet long, it is not precise, but neither does it claim to be. For instance, the pipe might have a larger diameter, or be stopped, thus reducing the length by half. The "foot" is essentially a handy piece of nomenclature, and is not asserting to be a exact length etc, and so the conversions aren't necessary (and can probably be reverted).—MDCollins 14:11, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I get the idea but I would like to see something in article space. Your phrase "thus reducing the length by half" is quite impressive and it implies that a pipe 1.2 metres long could be described as '8 foot'. This is exactly the sort of encyclopedia fodder we need in articles Perhaps a 'Nomenclature' section is needed. Thanks. Lightmouse (talk) 14:17, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Organ stop will be the place - but it is still awaiting a long overdue cleanup/re-write. Maybe in the new year!—MDCollins 14:37, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

This has been an interesting discussion to read! I was not aware of a request to provide metric equivalents for pipe lengths… we should certainly get this in article space somewhere. And, a fun note: some Spanish organs (such as the Cavaillé-Coll organ in the Basilica in San Sebastian; Cavaillé-Coll was French but used Spanish nomenclature in this case) give pipe lengths in "palmos" (hands): an 8' stop is given as 13 hands, a 16' stop as 26 hands, a 4' stop as 6 1/2, a 2' as 3 1/4, etc. See for example the Piet Kee recording of some Franck on this instrument (Chandos, 5171728). Note also the Spanish names: Flautado, Violón, Tapadillo, Contrabajo, Compuestas armónicas IV-VI, etc. This phenomenon is so unbelievably rare that it doesn't bear mentioning in Pipe organ or Organ stop or most anywhere else, save perhaps an article on that specific organ or on Spanish organs. Nevertheless, it's an interesting testament and concession to another style of nomenclature. I wonder if Spanish Baroque organs had nomenclature in this fashion? In that case, it may perhaps merit a mention somewhere. At any rate… just more fun facts! —Cor anglais 16 19:13, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Pipe organ GA Sweeps: On Hold

I have reviewed Pipe organ for GA Sweeps to determine if it still qualifies as a Good Article. In reviewing the article I have found several issues, which I have detailed here. Since the article falls under the scope of this project, I figured you would be interested in contributing to further improve the article. Please comment there to help the article maintain its GA status. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people

Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, many wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:

1. supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
2. opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced BLP articles if they are not sourced, so your project may want to source these articles as soon as possible. See the next, message, which may help.

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people

List of cleanup articles for your project

If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here

Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "[[WP

Incubation|incubation pages"

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles that your project covers, to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip

Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip

Ikip 05:05, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced living people articles bot

User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects provides a list, updated daily, of unreferenced living people articles (BLPs) related to your project. There has been a lot of discussion recently about deleting these unreferenced articles, so it is important that these articles are referenced.

The unreferenced articles related to your project can be found at >>>Wikipedia:WikiProject Pipe organ/Archive 2/Unreferenced BLPs<<<

If you do not want this wikiproject to participate, please add your project name to this list.

Thank you.

Update: Wikipedia:WikiProject Pipe organ/Archive 2/Unreferenced BLPs has been created. This list, which is updated by User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects daily, will allow your wikiproject to quickly identify unreferenced living person articles.

There maybe no or few articles on this new Unreferenced BLPs page. To increase the overall number of articles in your project with another bot, you can sign up for User:Xenobot_Mk_V#Instructions.

If you have any questions or concerns, visit User talk:DASHBot/Wikiprojects. Okip 00:05, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

FAR

I have nominated Olivier Messiaen for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 05:36, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Increasing Membership in this Project

One way to keep this project active is to increase membership. One way to do this is for at least one member from every country to inform the membership of their respective country's organ association or organisation about this project. I live in Canada so I will send a letter or article to the Royal Canadian College of Organists asking that they provide a link to the project on their website and include a letter or article in their newsletter. RGB2 (talk) 21:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC)